Plateaus

[Sabaki]

Hi everybody, I'm new to the forum.

I can see there's some people here who've been training seriously for many years so I would like to ask a question.

Do you guys/girls experience plateaus, where you don't seem to improve for weeks or months at a time?

Do you suddenly improve after an inspirational event - tourny, grading, seminar or plain good training session?

Or do you feel as though you improve very gradually?

When I first started training many years ago, I could easily see myself improving.

I often don't feel like I'm improving at all until I see an old video of myself or bump into another martial artist who comments on improvements in my fighting style.

So, post your thoughts - I'll be interested to here your replies.

Cheers,

Carl.

[Richard S.]

oh yeah,big time... whether its "i wanna be faster" or 4 bricks instead of 2... a couple of months back i posted a problem with my abdominal training smacking into a plateau, and the responces were incredible...i have a whole new routine for my abs now and i am WELL pleased with my new progress...........respects

[karatekid1975]

Yes. I'm at one now. I'm told I have good technique, but I stink at sparring. I don't feel like I'm improving. I get my butt kicked on a regular basis. But I know what I need work on (combos and speed), so maybe that will get me outta this rut.

Also, I'm half way between not being flexible (when I first started MA, I couldn't even touch my toes LOL) and being really flexible (splits). I'm stuck in a rut where I'm not getting anymore flexible. It's frustrating sometimes. But I think about the fact that I CAN bonk someone on the head with a round kick, so I'm starting to think that being able to do splits (besides for showing off purposes) is not required to be a good kicker. So I donno if I should even worry about it :shrug:

[muayThaiPerson]

yeysyesyeysyes. i have, the first 3 weeks i felt i was going nowhere. then on the 3rd week, boom, i was kicking as hard as a mofo. i think all MAist feel that way when they first start. i was about to quit but someone told me id get better so i did:D

[Blindside]

Oh boy tell me about them,

I just got out of the worst one of my martial arts career, it lasted about a year, and it felt like I was just treading water. Actually, in some ways it felt like I was going backwards, because I could watch our intermediates getting better, well, feeling it in our sparring matches.

Doing forms didn't interest me, and oh boy yippee 20 more techniques. :shrug:

I started coming out of it about 3 or 4 months ago, I had developed an interest in medieval and renassance swordsmanship that sort of kick-started my whole martial arts focus. I think it is something every student goes through, you really can't do anything except to keep plugging away, though I do recommend going out and exploring new areas to see if the different information gets you interested again.

Lamont

[Nightingale]

everyone experiences plateaus... whether you're the beginner that nothing is coming together for, or the advanced practicioner stuck in a rut.

For the beginner, the best solution is to keep at it, and to try to bug people who are a level or two above you for help. sometimes the person who's been there just a few months before can help you much more than the black belt who hasn't worn a white belt for fifteen years. Black belts (and brown belts too (grin)) sometimes forget what it is like to be a complete beginner who doesn't know anything.

For the more advanced person: change your routine up a little bit... see what you can do to try to make things more fun and exciting... maybe compete more often or something to shake things up...

also, someone advised me to do this when I was stuck in a rut with dance... I had been dancing for five hours a day, six days a week, for three years straight. They told me "take a week off." I fought it, but my teacher saw how frustrated I was getting, that I tried so hard and just couldn't master that advanced slipjig step... and finally kicked me out for a week. It was the best thing he could have done for me. He saw how upset I was getting that I couldn't master something that everyone else made look so simple, and that my frustration was becoming a mental block. I spent the week relaxing and taking some time for myself, and was able to return with a fresh mind, and was able to appreciate the dance much more. It took me two more days to get the step right, and I was able to move on to other things.

sometimes your brain just needs a little bit of time to process the new information, and it can't do that if you just keep feeding it more stuff, so you get stuck. Take a little break...not too short, at least four days, but not too long, no more than seven, cause otherwise you'll lose conditioning. Do something else to exercise...go to the gym, go swimming, play a game of softball, but let your mind rest from karate for a while, and then you can return with a fresh outlook, which can make a big difference.

basically, if you keep at something, you'll move beyond the plateau, but if you're getting upset about it, its probably time for a break.

[Sabaki]

Thanks for your replies guys.

Nightingale - I may try taking a week off at some point, but I'm sure I'd be itching to get back to the dojo after a couple of days if you know what I mean... ; )

[Sabaki]

By the way, how long have you guys been training? what ranks are you all?

Carl.

[artful dodger]

I never believe that when you hit a plateau in your training you aren't making any improvement. I think it is happening subconsciously. Ever noticed how when you come out of one you make big jumps forward or something all of a sudden clicks. Whenever I hit a plateau now I just keep on training (sometimes even when I feel like I'm going backwards) because I know that every hour that I am training whilst in that stage is 1 step closer to coming out of it and seeing improvements. It often happens when there is an aspect of your training that needs more work than something else and you're mind is subconsciously going there for a while. It happens in all areas of learning, and just sticking to it seperates the motivated from the unmotivated - because if you can get through that stage ...

Look back at the last time you hit a plateau. How much improvement have you made since then?

[Bod]

Plateaus (Plateaux?) are an interesting thing in Judo.

With throws which are all about speed, exact technique and split second timing, I get better in bursts and then have long frustrating periods of hard grind.

Ground work is the opposite, every session I improve, but very gradually. The reason is that you can think about the technique as you do it most of the time, because it is that little bit slower.

[7starmantis]

I find sometimes that I get in plataus not only physically but mentally as well. I'll get to a point where I don't feel I'm really getting any technique down at all, I just keep going through these weird motions, then a few weeks down the road, it just "clicks" and I've got it! Its odd, it can be very discouraging too, but I just keep sloshing through cause I know there is an end to it.



7sm

[Master of Blades]

Whenever we get new students. After a few weeks I just get the feeling that they are reaching the same level as me. Ive been told its my mind coz Ive been doing in 3 yrs but I just get protective of my place in the class. but yeah sometimes I feel Im at a standstill and cant do whats needed of me.

[Shinzu]

i felt like i was going nowhere plenty of times, but i do see differences in past videos and such.

it was about a year ago that my teacher and peers began to compliment me on my forms and techniques. all the hard work does pay off, but sometimes it takes much time to see it.

[karatekid1975]

Good advice, Night :)

Sabaki, I've only been training for 2 years. Almost a year and three months (roughly) in Tang Soo Do, now in TKD. See my sig for rank. I do enjoy it a lot, and I work my tail off at it. I gripe about my school on here, but I also work hard and try hard. My plateaus right now is with the school, not my training (well, except the flexibility thing LOL). I like the people I train with, and we do get good instruction, but the prices (and a few rules) are outragous. It gets so frustrating sometimes.

[rmcrobertson]

Hey, here's a good one, courtesy of Henry David Thoreau: "the corn grows in the night."

[The 14th Style]

I think it's a can't see the forest for the trees kind of thing. Sometimes it's hard to see any change when you look at yourself everyday. Sometimes it's good to get someone else's Perspective.
My teacher left here in January. So things have really slowed down for me. Since there is really not anybody else that teaches the system that I am in, here in town. I have a friend that I workout with, whom is in the same system. We help each other to learn and grow within the art, but it's slow going.


By the way, how long have you guys been training? what ranks are you all?

I have been training in Eskrima for about a year and a half, mostly Serrada and some Largo and Kali. There are no belts in the system I am in.
Respectfully The 14th style

[tonbo]

Sheeeesh. Plateaus (plateaux? What *is* the plural?) are a way of life. I've been studying Kenpo for about 10 years now, and I have hit so many of those things that they are old, old friends.

I would second Nightingale's advice. Don't push it, just ease back a bit. Play with elements of your style. Try a different angle. Take some time off. Do whatever you can to relieve the frustration--you *will* grow, it just takes time.

I received my Black Belt in December. I am sure that hitting those "stopping points", where nothing seems to progress, are not gone.....they're just waiting to take me to dinner.....:D

One point I would add: always keep your training fun for yourself. Find different ways to do things. Open and close doors with your feet.....do the same with turning light switches on and off. Try to put MA moves into day-to-day activities. Play games like this as much as you can, so that your training is a little more light-hearted on occasion. You might be surprised at the results.

And oh, yeah.....if you take time off, and you miss the training, you are hooked, and you will just have to return to it....;) . I can't go for more than a day or so without doing *some* kind of training.....if I do, the training content of my blood gets too low, and I get really grumpy.....:D

Peace--

[Roland]

my own reasons for training would change, and that usually pushed me through the plateaus.
Still, when they hit, they really suck.
It is the worst when you do not even know you are there.

[Sabaki]

The 14th Style - "can't see the forest for the trees", I like the analogy.

You've been training in Eskrima huh?

Do you have any forms/patterns/kata that exist in Eskrima? I understand it's quite a devastating straight to the point style that utilisises what some might call "dirty tricks" - not that there is anything wrong with that.

I understand Dan Inosanto trains / teaches Eskrima, are all types of Eskrima the same or are there different styles, as in Karate or other forms of martial art?

[Sabaki]

Tonbo - in regards to getting really grumpy after not training for a several days, I know EXACTLY what you mean (and so do the people around me). LOL.

It almost is like you said, that the training content of your blood gets to low, maybe it's all the endorphins that are released after sparring and other intense physical exercise.

[tonbo]

Yeah, I get grumpy when I don't get to class for a while.

Then, my wife *pushes* me to class, saying, "I don't care WHAT else you have going on, GET TO CLASS!!"

Heh....when I get grumpy, my wife gets grumpy. When my wife is grumpy, EVERYBODY gotta duck..;)....it's safer that I take time out and get my butt to class. Then, I come home sweaty, smiling, and sore, and life is good again.

I don't do drugs--that's what MA is for.....that natural high beats all there is...well....with a *couple* of exceptions.....*ahem*.

Anyway.....

:)

Peace--

[Eraser]

I seem to have more of the mental "ruts" latley.. but I have overcome my biggest one so far in my MA life.... Sparring... at first I very much disliked it.. im sure in all reality it was because i lacked the physical stamina (at the time) to even last 1 min.. but I made it into a mental issue.. even when i started lasting longer.. i kept telling myself that i was NO good at sparring...

Well.. for some reason.. the light when on upstairs.. the little hamster in the wheel finally woke up.. and i realize that I can Spar...(still not very well) But now I want to spar.. Heck.. im even going up to London to visit some friends who are gonna initiate me into some Contact sparring!!:rolleyes: (what have i gotten myself into!! hehehehe)
see all previous sparring was no contact.. so you can see the mental block i put on myself was silly
in that particular case.. what i thought was a physical limitation on my part.. was actually a mental one... either that or im just going mental.. hahahahahaha
Just try your best to work through all your roadblocks....
Never give up.... NEVER surrender..... (sorry i watched Galaxie Quest last night.. sigh... maybe i am crazy!!)
:shrug:

[karatekid1975]

Eraser,

That's the same problem I'm having (except the sparring I do is full contact ..... sometimes light contact). When I did TSD, I hardly sparred. I disliked it ALOT LOL. Now I spar more, but I stink at it. I do wanna get better, eventhough I still don't like sparring. Do you think it's a"mental block" with me also?

[The 14th Style]

Originally posted by Sabaki

The 14th Style - "can't see the forest for the trees", I like the analogy.

You've been training in Eskrima huh?

Do you have any forms/patterns/kata that exist in Eskrima? I understand it's quite a devastating straight to the point style that utilisises what some might call "dirty tricks" - not that there is anything wrong with that.

I understand Dan Inosanto trains / teaches Eskrima, are all types of Eskrima the same or are there different styles, as in Karate or other forms of martial art?


Hi Sabaki, we don't have any Katas or forms
(as I understand them) in my style. Of course I can not speak for all styles, but for us instead of Katas we have what is called carenza (not sure if I spelled that right) it's like shadow boxing. It changes everytime, with no set begining or end.

As for dirty tricks. I don't know about that. One of the big concept in Eskrima is called defanging the snake. the idea that if you destroy the weapon hand, destroy the limb, you end the fight. Most of our counters are designed not to just block an attack but to destroy the hand or wrist(with or without a weapon) or foot etc., as it strikes and to follow up with your own attack and put your opponent down as quickly as possible. No wasted movement. A lot of the old men fought for real and I was told the Eskrima matches were pretty bloody. Many Eskrimadors were crippled or killed. This lasted up until the mid or late 50's as I understand it. They only used what worked and didn't have time for anything else.

Yes Danny Inosanto was one of my teacher's teachers for many years. If you get a chance, check out his book "The Filipino Martial Arts", it's a great reference guide.
As for styles, just like other arts, there are probably hundreds of different Eskrima/Kali/Arnis styles out there. I could probably name at least 40. Although many have been lost.

I hope this answers some of your questions. Although there are many FMA guys on this board such as Arnisador and many others that can probably explain it better than I. But, anyway that's my understanding of it. ;)

Respectfully, The 14th Style

[Sabaki]

I'm a real big fan of Inosanto, he has really done a good job representing JKD for Lee.

I haven't seen any Eskrima clubs around my neighbourhood, or entire city for that matter. Would you consider it to be one of the rarer martial arts?

[The 14th Style]

Originally posted by Sabaki

I'm a real big fan of Inosanto, he has really done a good job representing JKD for Lee.

I haven't seen any Eskrima clubs around my neighbourhood, or entire city for that matter. Would you consider it to be one of the rarer martial arts?

Danny is great. My teacher had some tapes he made of them working out. A lot of fun to watch!

I think so. A lot of places, (that I've seen) teach it as part of Karate, but I haven't seen many straight FMA schools. Here in town there are only 4 places that teach it. And all of those are Karate or TKD schools.
The part that bothers me, is that some of the schools that I've seen just teach it as a stickfighting art and don't expand the concepts. It's so much more that that! I had one guy come up to me and tell me that the sticks looked cool. But he would rather stick to a combat art.

Also some styles are VERY difficult to find. Such as Cadena de Mano (my favorite). I think a lot of it is taught as a backyard art. That's how I was taught.
The 14th style

[Eraser]

life,

It could be a mental rut too!!! See but now.. when i say I suck at sparring.. I do it jokingly (is that even a word??) SO i really do now look forward to some sparring.. even if i do get my butt whooped by you and kenpogirl this month... oooooooo 6 days left... hehehehe