The Salutation...and the bo staff...together?

[Carol]

Mr. Parker changed things, right?

Just...not...like...this. :eek: :eek: :eek:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m_Ronq6MAnk&search=kenpo%20sensei

[Brother John]

.......interesting.

Who are the folks in this video???


Your Bro.
John

[Carol]

I...don't know.

There are similar clips attributed to "Yeled Kenpo" in San Jose, CA.

[michaeledward]

I have seen the opening of the staff set done in this manner. It is not the way we do it.

But what the hell is going on with a yellow belt learning the staff set?

Or even the formal salutation, for that matter. At Yellow, the student should still be working on Short and Long 1 ... which does not begin with the formal saluation.

Good Grief.

[KENPOJOE]

Mr. Parker changed things, right?

Just...not...like...this. :eek: :eek: :eek:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m_Ronq6MAnk&search=kenpo%20sensei

Hi folks!
first of all, I should give you some background on the video clips. The yellow belt clad young lady apparently has one of her friends or family members record portions of her class with her instructor. I looked through all the clips she had and there are a couple of good parts in some of them. I found the website for the instructor featured in the clips and called him. I informed him that I had seen those clips and thought it was nice that his student was doing that to promote her instructor and her training. HE HAS ABSOLUTELY NO IDEA SHE WAS DOING THAT! The gentleman seems nice enough from our phone conversation and runs a christian-based kenpo studio in a strip mall in that area.
now, as far as the video goes, Carol, I don't know what actual rank you are or if you even have Mr. Parker's staff set. I have seen several versions of the opening over the years based on different influences and people's ability [or inability] to perform the opening. As he is basically teaching a private lesson and going over one of the most difficult opening weapon salutations i've ever done in my martial arts career,simply stated, a lot of people initially miss and or drop the staff and have problems with it.So, no biggie. But, i don't think he ever thought it would be on the internet for everyone and anyone to see.And I'm sure his student just wants to help [and probably has one of those schoolgirl crushes on her instructor].But,seriously, we all have occasional faux pas in our training. The question i'm wondering is why is he teaching a yellow belt staff set? Perhaps he's just demonstrating it for her? I think it's cute as she cowers from the staff in mock fear [and giggles]
BEGOOD,
KENPOJOE

[Carol]

Hi folks!
first of all, I should give you some background on the video clips. The yellow belt clad young lady apparently has one of her friends or family members record portions of her class with her instructor. I looked through all the clips she had and there are a couple of good parts in some of them. I found the website for the instructor featured in the clips and called him. I informed him that I had seen those clips and thought it was nice that his student was doing that to promote her instructor and her training. HE HAS ABSOLUTELY NO IDEA SHE WAS DOING THAT! The gentleman seems nice enough from our phone conversation and runs a christian-based kenpo studio in a strip mall in that area.


Aiiieee... Candid Camera in the 21st century :eek: Poor Sensei.



now, as far as the video goes, Carol, I don't know what actual rank you are


Please consider me to be a beginner sir. The color belt I'm wearing would set incorrect expectations as to my skills.



or if you even have Mr. Parker's staff set.


No sir I do not.




I have seen several versions of the opening over the years based on different influences and people's ability [or inability] to perform the opening. As he is basically teaching a private lesson and going over one of the most difficult opening weapon salutations i've ever done in my martial arts career,simply stated, a lot of people initially miss and or drop the staff and have problems with it.So, no biggie. But, i don't think he ever thought it would be on the internet for everyone and anyone to see.And I'm sure his student just wants to help [and probably has one of those schoolgirl crushes on her instructor].But,seriously, we all have occasional faux pas in our training. The question i'm wondering is why is he teaching a yellow belt staff set? Perhaps he's just demonstrating it for her? I think it's cute as she cowers from the staff in mock fear [and giggles]
BEGOOD,
KENPOJOE

My ignorance shows yet again. It is my good fortune to have your insight and your gentle corrections, Mr. Rebello. Perhaps I will have a chance to shake your hand someday and thank you in person. :)

Untill then, cheers from up on the North Shore. :asian:

[HKphooey]

I was taught that salutation, but was "ripped into" by a high ranking karate instructor at a tournament. He said it is very disrespectful to drop you weapon on the ground. :) I think I started out in the hole becasu of that.

I still pratice it this way, but would not do this saluatation at anything but a kenpo tournament.

[RichK]

That is also the way I learned the opening of staff set years ago.

[KENPOJOE]

I have seen the opening of the staff set done in this manner. It is not the way we do it.

But what the hell is going on with a yellow belt learning the staff set?

Or even the formal salutation, for that matter. At Yellow, the student should still be working on Short and Long 1 ... which does not begin with the formal saluation.

Good Grief.

Dear Michael,
There are several versions of the salutation as I've mentioned on the previous post. Huk teaches it as a non-drop or "start from the ground" version because of the difficulty of the opening.
Perhaps he was just showing her the form or perhaps for a short part of a respective demo team,I don't know why.
BTW, I teach the formal salutaion after a student leans the yellow belt basics and ALL kenpo forms begin with the full salutation "We salute on forms,we bow on sets" Mind you, before the full salutation was created in american kenpo,we did it from horse stance [meditating horse] WAS the salutation back then! I first saw one of the first classes that i saw of Bill Aguiar's studio [student and inheiritor of count dante] and they did the meditating horse as their salute because dante had studied from Mr. Parker after leaving Trias and it was from that period.
I hope that I was of some service,
KENPOJOE

[KENPOJOE]

My ignorance shows yet again. It is my good fortune to have your insight and your gentle corrections, Mr. Rebello. Perhaps I will have a chance to shake your hand someday and thank you in person. :)

Untill then, cheers from up on the North Shore. :asian:

Hi folks,
Dear carol,
no big deal,but I do have to make another "gentle correction". My family was too poor to afford 2 "L"s in my last name. So, i'm a "Rebel" add an "O". I do hope that we do get to meet someday as well!
BEGOOD :)
KENPOJOE

[KENPOJOE]

I was taught that salutation, but was "ripped into" by a high ranking karate instructor at a tournament. He said it is very disrespectful to drop you weapon on the ground. :) I think I started out in the hole becasu of that.

I still pratice it this way, but would not do this saluatation at anything but a kenpo tournament.

Hi folks,
HK, if you explain that the nature of your form's opening and closing is symbolic of "getting a staff" from the ground and returning it to the ground at the end of the form perhaps it would go better for you. Unfortunately,other stylists with martial arts "tunnel vision" cannot see beyond their own particular art. Hence, why the version that huk teaches has no "ground" action in it's salutation.
I hope that I was of some service,
KENPOJOE

[Carol]

Hi folks,
Dear carol,
no big deal,but I do have to make another "gentle correction". My family was too poor to afford 2 "L"s in my last name. So, i'm a "Rebel" add an "O". I do hope that we do get to meet someday as well!
BEGOOD :)
KENPOJOE

That's what I get for trying to spell your name from memory instead of looking it up and spelling it properly....doh...

My apologies Mr. Rebelo :asian:

[MattJ]

Hi Carol.

That salutation is exactly as I was taught years ago learning the form, minus the staff-dropping, LOL.

[Kenpodoc]

That salutation I believe is how Chuck Sullivan teaches the form so is likely the base version for Kenpo. I also learned the Huk version. I was taught that the foot flip from the ground teaches how to lift the weapon without bending over in a confrontational situation. the flip version does tend to be hard on walls and mirrors so be careful if you choose to learn it.

Jeff

[HKphooey]

Hi folks,
HK, if you explain that the nature of your form's opening and closing is symbolic of "getting a staff" from the ground and returning it to the ground at the end of the form perhaps it would go better for you. Unfortunately,other stylists with martial arts "tunnel vision" cannot see beyond their own particular art. Hence, why the version that huk teaches has no "ground" action in it's salutation.
I hope that I was of some service,
KENPOJOE

Oh, I hear you on that! :) In the kenpo circles I do use the flip up version. I usually ask the person (giving me a hard time) when was the last time you faught in a deep horse staff with a bo in a bar. Lol!

I actually use the move to pick up a pool cue now and then. :)

[Ceicei]

I have learned at least three different versions of the staff salutation. The version shown in the video is among the hardest version, so it is not surprising that the staff would be dropped at times, even by experienced kenpoists.

The other versions I learned (much easier) did not require the foot to flip it up. One version allows the staff to roll down the arms to grab, the other version "pops" the staff by the arms into the air to catch it. There are probably quite a few more versions out there. In the ones I've seen at studios and tournaments, the similarity is generally the same... the hands/feet does the recognizable Kenpo salutation, regardless empty handed or with weapons.

What I am saying is the versions depend a lot upon who is teaching (as I've studied at five different studios). Variation is the spice of life. :uhyeah:

- Ceicei

[KenpoVzla]

I have a Mohamad Tabatabai instructional video and he teaches it this way too. He says this way is taught in case in a real encounter you have to pick up your weapon without loosing time and getting down to do it.

Hope this helps.

[Carol]

Variation is the spice of life. :uhyeah:


As is learning from one's mistakes! I thought that was the regular Kenpo salute they were doing. Ahhh...Kenpo makes me tough enough to make a fool out of myself on the internet.

Glad you all are a forgiving bunch :D :D

[masherdong]

Internet....serious Business.

[IWishToLearn]

As a student of Mr. Sullivan & Mr. Le Roux, I'll make it a point to ask about the staff set salutation when next I converse with SGM Sullivan. After all - he was the person who refined the set into what was then approved by SGM Parker. :) I do know the salutation done in the staff set dvd put out by the IKCA does not have the foot flip inherent, it's taught from the staff at the side. I'll check. Back with news later.

[KenpoTex]

The way he did it in the video is pretty similar to the way I learned it. The only differences are that we only step over the staff with our lead foot during the salutation. Then we use the lead foot to pull the staff back and roll it up on to our rear foot (this, to me, is a little tougher than just a "flip" with one foot). We "flip" it up into our hands, execute an upward block with the staff and then allow it to drop into the crook of our elbows and perform the salutation again, this time with the weapon.

[IWishToLearn]

The response (posted here with his permission) from SGM Sullivan:

" Steve,

The staff starting on the floor and being flipped up and caught is actually a part of the original set.

It was taken from the longer version that Ed Parker taught only to me and was done that way for a long time afterwards but when shoes were introduced into the art it became about a ten-to-one shot to scoop the staff up because it would hit the front of the shoe and happily bounced away. I tried to convince it that it was supposed to ride up my foot so I could flip it into my eagerly awaiting hands but I just couldn't get through to the stupid thing.

I tried it several times, but to no avail, the damned thing just kept bouncing away from me. Like I said, I'd get it about once in every ten attempts.

It was easy on tatami mats with bare feet but almost impossible on a hard surface with shoes on, so it had to go.

Plus, if the staff starts on the floor, one would assume that's where it should end up, and it didn't, so now we begin the set by holding it down at arms length, so it can end up there. It's like beginning and ending any form on the same spot on the floor.

Feel free to pass this along, because it's the way it was.

Your brother,

Chuck"

[Ceicei]

Thank you, Steve, for that historical bit of information. Much appreciated.

- Ceicei

[IWishToLearn]

I'll pass that along to SGM Sullivan, I'm just the messenger. :)