train to take pain???

[J-kid]

I sometimes train by hitting my self in the ribs in the legs (not in the face) but dont hit to hard yet hard enough to feel it.

It helps me take pain , from fighting etc.

Is this a helpful training method and dos anyone else use it????:redeme:

[Marginal]

I've seen a martial arts supply web site that was welling a wooden thing that looked like a rolling pin, except it was square, only had one handle, and didn't spin. The function described was "Wooden hammer to build pain resistance through striking"

[Yari]

nope, done it, tried, been there and bought the T-shirt.

Stopped doing it. It only ruins your body. When you get old the body will have a lots of problems.

/Yari

[Cthulhu]

Sounds like training for car wrecks by crashing your car on purpose.

Cthulhu

[Nightingale]

just train with the normal contact you get in the dojo. hitting yourself will feel different anyway, plus, you look pretty silly doing it.

[tonbo]

I don't hit myself. There are plenty of people at my school who are more than happy to help me with that part. During the normal course of sparring and training, I get plenty of "incentive" and plenty of conditioning.

I don't cause myself intentional pain. I feel pretty good about the fact that I have trained enough to recognize and deal with pain, and not freak out when I get hurt. I have sparred through stress fractures, bloody noses, swollen eyes, having my bell rung, shots to the groin that got around my cup, etc. I deal with them as I need to, but I don't go looking for them. Besides, I think that adrenaline will take a lot of that out of the picture in a "real" situation......but I could be wrong.....;)

Peace--

[Bob Hubbard]

Have heard of many things...

-whip yourself with a belt so it stings
-lie on bed of nails
-clothespins on 'sensitive' areas
-put out lit cigarettes on your arm/leg
-hit yourself in the ehad repeatedly with a kendo sword
etc.

All sound stupid to me.

I think you stand a better chance of injury than upping your pain tollerence. The next trick is to tow a car with your willie. I mean, where do you stop?


I think like everything else, you build it thru experience and time. The more you get hit, the more you get accustomed to it and the more you can work thru it, etc.

I believe the better shape you are, the better your tollerence too. I have noticed my tollerence going up as I've been training harder and more regularly. Not ready to enter any NHB type fight, but I can shrug off the knuckle shots I take while doing stickwork better now.

Whatever you do, remember..right now your body will shake it off...in 20 years though it'll all come back on ya. Ive got a back, knees, neck and arm all telling me how stupid I was when I was 18.

A good example is Mick Foley, the wrestler. He's got a nice and high pain tollerence..he's been burned, smashed, blown up, had both his ears ripped off, broken pretty much everything ya can break, etc. Guys in his mid 30's, gets lost going to the john, and walks like a 70 yr old accident victim.

It comes back to haunt you later.
:asian:

[tmanifold]

You can't train toughness, you either have it or you don't. What you can train is will power. Hitting yourself won't train your willpower, it comes with fighting through the pain to finish a sparring session or drill, it comes from dong two more pushups when you body is ready to collapse. These train willpower, doing the other is just a waste of time.


Tony

[KennethKu]

In many Karate schools , a wood stick is commonly used to smack on the limbs of the practitioners (while they are on stance or doing Kata) to desensitize them and to increase their tolerance to strikes.

I have no idea as to the merit of such practice. But it is common in Asia. You will lose students and end up with an a$$ load of lawsuits if you do that in the Western world.

[Klondike93]

The only real way to learn to deal with pain is get by someone else. If your doing it yourself you can always stop short of hurting yourself. With someone else they'll just hit you and hope you can take it.

At least that's it worked for me :shrug:


:asian:

[Wertle]

I feel like my best way of "getting used" to impact is taking falls from throws, though I don't suppose it's the same thing as "getting used to pain". I guess it's more of a mild resistance training than intentionally damaging oneself.

[J-kid]

A long time ago at my dojo someone who has been going there alot longer then me told me my coach used to have those cow shockers. When someone was pinned and couldnt get out my coach would shock them and they would find a whole new way of escaping. Just a funny sorry i thought i would tell you.

[RyuShiKan]

Originally posted by Judo-kid

I sometimes train by hitting my self in the ribs in the legs (not in the face) but dont hit to hard yet hard enough to feel it.

It helps me take pain , from fighting etc.

Is this a helpful training method and dos anyone else use it?


Heres an idea:
Why don't you go to the batting cages and throw in about $50 bucks and stand in front of the balls as they come out.
That should toughen you up a bit. ;)

[KennethKu]

Originally posted by Judo-kid

A long time ago at my dojo someone who has been going there alot longer then me told me my coach used to have those cow shockers. When someone was pinned and couldnt get out my coach would shock them and they would find a whole new way of escaping. Just a funny sorry i thought i would tell you.

Considering you are 16-17, how long was "a long time ago" ? :D

[Jay Bell]

I have to agree with everyone. Taking punishment for the purpose of "toughening up" is silly. I used to do these types of drills, the body is very unforgiving as you climb the ladder of mid-late 20's...especially concerning hand conditioning.

PS - KennethKu, you just said what I've thought in my mind everytime I read one of his posts :D

[kenposcum]

No, hitting yourself for conditioning/toughening purposes is perfectly legitimate. Think of the other stuff we do: hitting makiwara to build calcium deposits on our knuckles, knuckle pushups, shin/forearm conditioning,...why would training your body to take ballistic shock be any different?
Benny "The Jet" Urquidez suggests the type of training you are doing in his book, "Training and Fighting Skills." I personally like to hammerfist myself in the abdomen, obliques, quadriceps, and elsewhere. It's also fun to stand in front of your training partner and trade body punches. Sure, it's impossible to condition yourself to take shots to anatomical weak points ("Let's kick each other in the groin!" is a recipe for disaster), but the experience of getting damaged will ensure that you don't "freeze" when struck. And believe you me, you will get struck.
It's up to you how far you take this...I go in phases, training-wise...continually laying more and more slabs of metaphorical concrete to create my fighting proficiency. A caveat: make sure you start SLOW, and work gradually. It's possible to get to where people can bash your arms and legs with bats, just don't try it right off the bat, so to speak (I made a funny!). Give yourself time, and I think you'll be pleased with the results.
So hey, if it works for you, why not? Remember: "There are many paths to the top of the mountain."
:asian:

[KennethKu]

"....It's also fun to stand in front of your training partner and trade body punches...."

Like the 3 Stooges :D :D :D

[Jay Bell]

Along with those "calcium deposits" (please state medical proof of such claims) you also develop microfractures in the bone structures of the hands.

Disagree all you'd like...that type of training causes permanent, irreversible damage. Anytime you are striking something harder then the bone itself, it's damage, not conditioning.

However...striking to soft areas of the body...that's a different story all together. In my opinion, it can be quite good for you if done in moderation. Too much however, causes callousing of the muscle fiscia...again, not a good thing.

There is far too much training out there that feeds ego and bravado and an enormous part of it is very dangerous with lasting effects on the body. Toshitsugu Takamatsu sensei conditioned his hands and feet with rocks from the age of 13...and explained how that type of conditioning was not necessary anymore and shouldn't be done due to the side-effects. He lived with horrible artheritis into his older age.

[kenposcum]

Well, one of my colleagues is a doctor, and he said that everytime you punch something, little itty bitty hairline fractures appear in the bone of the knuckle. After time, calcium forms over these fractures (reinforcing the conditioned area) and giving the practioner those knobby karate knuckles. For example, look at pictures of Bruce Lee's or Mas Oyama's knuckles. Were they big and nasty-looking? Did both of those men condition their fists? Aye!
Furthermore, bone is stronger than pretty much any rock, pound for pound. The fibrous insides of the bone provide phenomenal structural support...when a bone is broken, it tends to be a result of leverage working against the bone as opposed to structural failure of the bone itself.
And when said bone does heal, there's a calcium lump over where the bone broke, making the bone stronger.
Read any Anatomy and Physiology textbook, it'll tell you pretty much the same stuff, only in more high falutin language. Now, is that enough medical proof for you?:asian:

[7starmantis]

Originally posted by kenposcum

Well, one of my colleagues is a doctor, and he said that everytime you punch something, little itty bitty hairline fractures appear in the bone of the knuckle. After time, calcium forms over these fractures (reinforcing the conditioned area) and giving the practioner those knobby karate knuckles. For example, look at pictures of Bruce Lee's or Mas Oyama's knuckles. Were they big and nasty-looking? Did both of those men condition their fists? Aye!
Furthermore, bone is stronger than pretty much any rock, pound for pound. The fibrous insides of the bone provide phenomenal structural support...when a bone is broken, it tends to be a result of leverage working against the bone as opposed to structural failure of the bone itself.
And when said bone does heal, there's a calcium lump over where the bone broke, making the bone stronger.
Read any Anatomy and Physiology textbook, it'll tell you pretty much the same stuff, only in more high falutin language. Now, is that enough medical proof for you?:asian:

Actually its not quite correct that after a break the calcium deposit covers the break making it stronger. Thats actually false, hence the long term damage everyone is talking about.


7sm

[Master of Blades]

Hang on........isnt the whole point of martial Arts to stop getting into situations where your gonna be really hurt. Whats the point of hitting yourself and learning how to take pain when you can just do full contact sparring and at least practise techniques at the same time!

[KennethKu]

I injured my left middle knuckle while training on gravel bag. Now it looks bigger than the one on my right hand. But it is not the bone has grown bigger. Rather the scar tissue growing around the knuckle, makes it look bigger.

[Jay Bell]

Originally posted by kenposcum

Well, one of my colleagues is a doctor, and he said that everytime you punch something, little itty bitty hairline fractures appear in the bone of the knuckle. After time, calcium forms over these fractures (reinforcing the conditioned area) and giving the practioner those knobby karate knuckles. For example, look at pictures of Bruce Lee's or Mas Oyama's knuckles. Were they big and nasty-looking? Did both of those men condition their fists? Aye!
Furthermore, bone is stronger than pretty much any rock, pound for pound. The fibrous insides of the bone provide phenomenal structural support...when a bone is broken, it tends to be a result of leverage working against the bone as opposed to structural failure of the bone itself.
And when said bone does heal, there's a calcium lump over where the bone broke, making the bone stronger.
Read any Anatomy and Physiology textbook, it'll tell you pretty much the same stuff, only in more high falutin language. Now, is that enough medical proof for you?:asian:

Your colleague needs to go back to medical school. True..."little itty bitty" hairline fractures occur (Is that the medical term?), called micro-fractures. They do *not* however make bone stronger. Bone is also not stronger then rock. The *structural* integrity of bone is phenominal...IF the structure is behind it. A bone itself, by itself, doesn't have much take alone. Take a bone...hit a rock...which one breaks?

The calcium deposits are the body's attempt to seal up the gaps that have been created in the fibers of bone...not to make it stronger. I've read many anatomy and physiology textbooks and have never read any provable types of claims, though I have heard such things from the mouths of people who wanted it to be true to validate them beating up their bodies.

[MartialArtist]

Well, striking does deaden the nerves. Especially in muay thai, the first few days will pretty much bang and bruise up your shins. After a few months, they'll be one of your best tools.

[Shinzu]

i wouldnt recommend it. you will only damage yourself more and perhaps cause permenent damage to yourself.

[928Porsche]

I think training to "take" pain may be, in the end, self-defeating. However, I think you should train in such a way that being hit is not such a shock to the system which will allow you to continue and survive the attack.

[7starmantis]

Originally posted by 928Porsche

I think training to "take" pain may be, in the end, self-defeating. However, I think you should train in such a way that being hit is not such a shock to the system which will allow you to continue and survive the attack.

I would have to agree completely. Your training in MA while teaching your body to endure more, is focused on saving yourself from pain or injury. To put your self through pain even in the name of training, doesn't reach the true goal of MA. Which is to protect yourself from pain.


7sm

[Carbon]

I think more devistating blows don't come from people who hit the torso region.

Yes, you can get a knockout with a kick to the midsection but it usually doesn't happen that often.

I'm saying that most people get hit in the neck/jaw. So if you want to do some training, train by getting hit in the jaw and not the midsection.

[kenposcum]

But why oh why do so many masters and texts implore us to condition our bodily weapons? I think it's a really good idea, one that works.
As Kenpo great Steve LaBounty said, "You can't become a good fighter without getting a few dents in your body." Where those dents come from, I suppose, is your business...I'd also like to say that I strongly agree with getting those shocks (and dents) from a training partner during heavy contact sparring is the best way to go for combat efficacy. Hey, "Boards...don't hit back!"
Well, I think bashing oneself is legitimate, if one takes care not to go too fast too quick and damage oneself.:asian: