The gun thing

[tmanifold]

How is it that that anytime some one wants to scoff at the martial arts they almost always say something along the lines of "What are you going to do when I pull a gun?" or "Yeah, I know a martial art, Glock fu."

I don't know about do in the US or other places but most people don't carry guns with them all the time (or at all for that matter). Hell, most of the people who say that have probably never touched a gun, let alone fired one in anger. I mean I think I could kill if need be (see the article on my site entitled Am I able to kill) but I don't think it is something I would want to do if i had any other choice.

I guess it is very easy to belittle what you don't know, especially if your are using something else you don't know about to belittle it.

Tony

[tonbo]

I would have to paraphrase Ed Parker, when he said, "You can always tell a punk, because he is the one who buys a weapon, rather than taking the time to develop one".

"So what would you do if I pulled out a gun?". Depends. Who are you threatening with it, and what do you want? Want my money? Take it. My car? Take it. My life, or those of my family? Then, you will have a fight coming. I may not win it, but at least you will know I was there.

Glock-fu may be common, or not. I don't encounter many people who are carrying a pistol around normally. Those that do tend to be willing to use it, otherwise they wouldn't have it.

The people that ask these kinds of stupid questions are generally just misinformed, and of the "You know martial arts? Show me something!" variety, or are not entirely serious. For the most part, they can be ignored or laughed off.

The ones that are packing guns and *don't* ask questions like that, however, are a different story. Put a respectful distance between you and them if situations get nasty. :)

Just one person's opinion.....

Peace--

[KennethKu]

To clear up a misconception here. Guns serve as a key deterrence. Many cirmes in progress are deterred by the show of firearm. You don't need to blow some one's brain out everytime. Just like you don't break limbs, jab eyes, choke windpipe , smash testicles, everytime you get into a confrontation.

[Little_Shoto]

I read on another thread that someone just says that they do martial arts to stay in shape if they are confronted by the typical Billy Bad-Arse walking the streets looking to prove a point.

Most people have a misconception that you are learning MA so you can kick everyone's arse. Although there are some martial artists that think this way, my hope is that these people are in the minority.

To paraphrase the greatest Martial Arts movie of all time, The Karate Kid ;) , "I train so I do not have to fight."

[Kirk]

Originally posted by KennethKu

To clear up a misconception here. Guns serve as a key deterrence. Many cirmes in progress are deterred by the show of firearm. You don't need to blow some one's brain out everytime. Just like you don't break limbs, jab eyes, choke windpipe , smash testicles, everytime you get into a confrontation.

Yes, but in order to show it, you have to be willing to use it. If
stripped of it by an attacker, you've now given him the power to
kill more people. I wouldn't present a gun, unless I KNEW I
could and would use it if necessary.

[Master of Blades]

U just tell them to run like crazy, or if that fails that you hope they have a nice funeral :D

[KennethKu]

Originally posted by Kirk
Yes, but in order to show it, you have to be willing to use it. If
stripped of it by an attacker, you've now given him the power to
kill more people. I wouldn't present a gun, unless I KNEW I
could and would use it if necessary.

DUH ! LOL THAT GOES WITHOUT SAYING!!

A gun is a deadly weapon! You don;t flash it around for show!!

[sweeper]

Ok I disagree with the thought that most people who say these things do not have a gun or under estimate martial art. Where I train I know at leaste one person who carries a gun, ALOT of people carry other weapons like nives or short clubs or some other form of weapon that wouldn't be classified as one (like if you needed to go to the air port) We are trained to use every advantage we have including any available weapon/environmental weapon. These people are not mis informed about martial arts and understand perfectly well the limitations of those weapons when and whee you would use them and the legal mess they could get you in. Now perhaps I mis understand the type of person you are speaking of, but in my opinion if you are looking for real self deffence, as in you need to deffend your life or another's life and you arne't just interested in out toughing some punk on the street or in a bar, than you should aquire and learn to use your weapons in the order of most powerfull to leaste powerfull.. I gun is relativly easy to learn how to use and to keep for deffence, combined with good self deffence knowledge, environmental awareness and such it will be very effective, much more so than an unarmed art. Most of what I hear along the lines of "I know glock fu" is on something like RMA when someone else says they need to learn how to deffend themselves fast someone says get a gun.

Along a simular note I have a few fammily members that carry or have carried guns with them, they aren't trained in any martial arts (unless you consider tactical firearm implimentation a martial art) and also are aware of the weapon's limitations. they use(d) the weapons for self deffence purposes because of situations they came across where other means of self deffence were useless.

[Eraser]

Hey there all,


All i want to say.. is that I hope i NEVER have to use my MA to defend myself.. I hope that i never get into a situation like that..
People think.. WHY train if you never want to use it??? Im not a fool.. i know that the odds are stacked against me that sometime im life here on earth i will be attacked in some way shape or form.. so I ask them.. what your doing to get ready for that day?????

I know im dreaming here.. but i truly do hope for the day when martial arts is just that ..... an art form.. (ok well it is) and not used for a way of defending ones life..
now don't get me wrong.. i understand that no everyone takes MA to learn how to defend themselves.. there are many other reasons why.. and people can have several reasons.. its just me im on a sugar kick and im rambling on here... LOL :D

[redfive]

I live in Texas, and we have a concealed hand gun permit down here. I carry and lots of my friends carry. None of them are in any kind of martial system and have had no hand to hand trainig. They thought the right to carry a fire arm would be the "win all " solution. Well its not. They and many other people who carry forget that they have to get to the weapon first, draw it and have time for target acquazition. This gives me more than enough time to jam them up and take them down or some times I draw a practice knife on them and cut them. They worry to much about the gun, rather then handling the incoming threat, then going for the gun. So the majority of citizens who do carry don not have the proper training on how to quick draw th gun or how to keep it, if someone does get ahold of there gun arm or hand. I carry a combat folder as well. I can get to it alot faster then my gun, it does not have to be concealed, So that would buy me time to get to my gun. But if I guy jumped out from around a corner and already had a gun drawn and aimed, well you just would have to play it out? But for me to try to pull my gun against him, NO. So if someone does mock your martial arts and says that he could shoot you, put him to the test, give him a practice gun and tell him to draw on you, when you start to close in on him. Start at about 10-15 feet. Its great practice for both of you and alot can be learned. Its best if you use a bb gun pistol or something that has a real triger to pull.
Redfive

[Shinzu]

its a known fact that no one is faster than a bullet at close range. these people just say this garbage because they know you or no one else would be able to dodge it and they like to poke fun at what they dont understand.

if they are waiting for a mystical martial arts answer perhaps they have been watching to many bruce leroy movies.

never the less... an effort to explain things to these types of people is an effort wasted.

[7starmantis]

In my humble opinion, if you are pointing a gun at my head, I'm giving you whatever it is you want. Until the very last moment when I think or can see that you are deffinatly, without a question, going to kill me, I will then attempt to fight back, but not until then. And trust me, you do not want someone life having been taken on your hands! You still have to live with that. Every night when you close your eyes, you have to live with it. So just think twice before shooting, eh?

Oh, btw, I am liscenced in Texas to carry a handgun. As a point of refrence, I don't think I ever have.


7sm

[MartialArtist]

You really can't defend against a gun and never should you try unless he was bent on your destruction.

However, statistics show that a man is less likely to be killed in the US if he has a firearm than if he just cooperates.

Bah, Glocks are for thugs who participate in drive-by shootings as they need 20 or so bullets because they can't aim. A real gun is at least .45

[KennethKu]

Prefragmented ammo such as Mag Safe or BeeSafe (Corbon) has proven stopping power and you don't have to put up with the kick of a 45. :)

[7starmantis]

Does anyone else feel we are defeatin the entire purpose of MA by talking about the usage of guns? I mean self defense, yeah, but isn't true MA totally against violence?

7sm

[KennethKu]

No it does not. Fighting is "as is" with all the "is" and "is not" ---Bruce Lee. If you are going to get involve in a fight, you must not ignore the possiblilty that the other side could be armed.

[J-kid]

baD THINGS COME FROM THINGS THAT CAN ONLY BRING PAIN AND DEATH,:eek:

[tonbo]

George Carlin had a stand-up routine about the "seven dirty words" you couldn't use on television. He made a good point: There *are* no bad words. There are bad thoughts, bad intentions......and *words*.

Same thing with a gun. A gun can be an equalizer, sure. But it is a *tool*, just like anything else. If I have a shaky hand, or forget to take the safety off, forget to load the damn thing, or it jams, it is useless. In those cases, I will most likely get my a** handed to me by whoever I drew against.

Next point: A gun can sometimes be just boosted courage. Would you consider yourself "better equipped" to handle a confrontation if you have a gun? Would you still run away from a mugger or punk if you were armed vs. unarmed? People *may* be less likely to be killed if they have a gun, true, but what are the statistics of people carrying guns being involved in confrontations? Hey, easier to be bold, when you have superior firepower, no? (I'm not saying that's true in *all* cases, just some). (And yes, this goes for MA too--before the flames start, just thought I'd throw that out).

People either buy or develop weapons for their own safety, and I am all for that . We *need* to be safe. However, I will return the point I was starting to make above: Guns are a tool, just like knives and even MA. It's not the tool that determines the outcome--it's the person *using* the tool, and the others in the situation.

Gun, MA, or both--it's your choice. Just respect the tools, and use them sparingly. Remember: as a martial artist, you now truly understand how easy it is to get hurt in a confrontation, and how quickly things can change. That's worthy of a little thought, and more than a little applied wisdom, no?

Peace--

[Nightingale]

Sometime before he died, Grandmaster Parker was asked why he carried a gun... he held up his hands and said something to the effect of "These don't work from fifteen feet away."

Personally, the only case where I would use a gun is if there is someone in my home. If someone comes in to my home, as a female living alone, I am in fear for my life, and frankly, I would rather deal with someone from fifteen feet away than from one foot away. I don't own a gun, yet. I am working on the safety requirements required by the state and saving my money for a good weapon.

[KennethKu]

Glock, Sig Saur and Beretta are quality but expensive handguns. (They are not the only quality guns)

They are Double Action Only (DAO). What ever you get, make sure it is DAO, b/c DAO is prosecutor-proof, ie you won't be charge for careless discharge. DAO tyically has 10-12 lb of trigger pull vs SA (single action) where the trigger pull could be 3-4 lb, hence easier to be accidentally pulled.

As for size, a 9mm is less intimidating to fire b/c of lower recoil. Your best bet would be to use Corbon Bee Safe pre fragmented ammo. This bulllet will not pass thru wall and kill someone next door. And the stopping power is proven. If you are going to use regular ammo, then you should go with a 10mm or 0.40 size gun.

[Nightingale]

I'm looking for a revolver rather than a semi-auto. Revolvers are less likely to jam, and I'd probably only have time for one shot.

[KennethKu]

That is fine. As even a revolver has sufficient ammo to double tap 3 attackers. lol You have to be a fast shooter to take out 3 attackers with 2 shots each.

But the assertion that a revolver is more reliable than an semi-auto is no longer valid. The semi auto has been field tested and battle tested with millions of shots fired. The relaibility issue no longer exists. Unless of course if you are talking about some cheap copycat fake made in Egypt or Pakistan lol

Even with a revolver, you still face the same DAO vs SA, caliber, and ammo type issues.

Wish you the Best with your endeavour.

[Nightingale]

thx for the info.

[Andi]

Originally posted by tmanifold

I mean I think I could kill if need be (see the article on my site entitled Am I able to kill) but I don't think it is something I would want to do if i had any other choice.

Funny, most people agree with that last comment. What with it being murder and all....;)

[sweeper]

"Bah, Glocks are for thugs who participate in drive-by shootings as they need 20 or so bullets because they can't aim. A real gun is at least .45"

My uncle carried a .45 and my aunt carries a glock, my uncle ways about 190 and my aunt ways about 120. Diffrent strokes for diffrent folks.

7sm, Personaly I disagree with the idea that martial arts is about not having to fight, maybe specific martial arts are, but in my opinion the one thing all MA have in common is that we all train to fight. In my view if you train hand gun use to an art form it is a modern martial art. There are some people who do this but not many, most people just see it is a tool and if it can serve it's purpose than that is all that is nessisary, but if you put the time and effort in anything used for combat in my opinion is most deffenatly a martial art, wether it's a soldier or a civilian wether it's for fist, knife, sword or gun.

[redfive]

Martial Arts is for self defence only? I'm glad our military does not think like that. If thats what a Martial Artist does then I guess I'm not one. If I watch a guy hit three people in front of me, then he gets to me. I'm not going to weight for him to throw a punch at me. I'm going to hit him first and I 'm going to be proud that I did, and will loose no sleep over it. As for a guy putting A gun at my head, well I don't care about statistics and what the latest pole about people with guns says that he should do, or is most likely to do. I'm going to take it away and I'm going to hurt him very badly, same with a knife. Why? BECOUSE I CAN. I have trained in combat systems sence I was 14 and I'm now 32. I have faith in what I know and I have faith in my instructors words and experiance. If I just gave my wallet to some punk ass kid on the street with a knife or some other weapon, then I would not be able to sleep at night. Everyone seems to have to much faith in the bad guys. Maybe we should just stop practicing our arts and go train with all the drugy drop out pieces of crap that walk the streets at night. It seems that every one thinks that they are the real bad asses. I work hard for what I'v got and by god I'm going to keep it. And as for shooting someone, if I had to and I know it has to be done and It will save my life and the lives of others. Then hell ya. "Fill your hands with iron you sons of B****s" And if the guy dies, well again I will loose know sleep over it. I'm alive. We live in a time that you can nolonger ask your self the question, is he going to kill me our not. Always asume he is . Hesatation will get you killed for sure. We are dealing with people now that have no regard for there lives or the lives of others. Alot of the bad guys wont to die. Thats the differance between a good guy and a bad guy. they don't care about life, we do. So I think every one needs to look into the real history of the Martial Arts. A lot of blood has been shed over the last 2000 years. One side fought in self deffence or for land, but the other used a Martial system to attack.

Redfive

ps. I'v carried a gun for the last three years, and I have never pulled it. God willing I never will. And by the way it is a Glock ,It s a 40cal. a 45 is to large to carry as a concealed hand gun. leaves a big imprint.

[Deathtrap101]

Martial Arts is for self defence only? I'm glad our military does not think like that. If thats what a Martial Artist does then I guess I'm not one. If I watch a guy hit three people in front of me, then he gets to me. I'm not going to weight for him to throw a punch at me. I'm going to hit him first and I 'm going to be proud that I did, and will loose no sleep over it. As for a guy putting A gun at my head, well I don't care about statistics and what the latest pole about people with guns says that he should do, or is most likely to do. I'm going to take it away and I'm going to hurt him very badly, same with a knife. Why? BECOUSE I CAN. I have trained in combat systems sence I was 14 and I'm now 32. I have faith in what I know and I have faith in my instructors words and experiance. If I just gave my wallet to some punk ass kid on the street with a knife or some other weapon, then I would not be able to sleep at night. Everyone seems to have to much faith in the bad guys. Maybe we should just stop practicing our arts and go train with all the drugy drop out pieces of crap that walk the streets at night. It seems that every one thinks that they are the real bad asses. I work hard for what I'v got and by god I'm going to keep it. And as for shooting someone, if I had to and I know it has to be done and It will save my life and the lives of others. Then hell ya. "Fill your hands with iron you sons of B****s" And if the guy dies, well again I will loose know sleep over it. I'm alive. We live in a time that you can nolonger ask your self the question, is he going to kill me our not. Always asume he is . Hesatation will get you killed for sure. We are dealing with people now that have no regard for there lives or the lives of others. Alot of the bad guys wont to die. Thats the differance between a good guy and a bad guy. they don't care about life, we do. So I think every one needs to look into the real history of the Martial Arts. A lot of blood has been shed over the last 2000 years. One side fought in self deffence or for land, but the other used a Martial system to attack.


here here!!

[MartialArtist]

.50 AE

You can't limp-wrist, but it can take down a moose. Not for self-defense, but in the military sense, it's very useful.

[sweeper]

well Redfive I agree with most of what you said, but I personaly would use discretion simply because I don't want to end up in prison or have to deal with a major lawsuit, I think I would loose sleep over that.

[7starmantis]

Redfive:
I understand what you are saying, but if what seperates the "bad guys" form the "good guys" is that the "good guys" value life, what side does that put you on? As an ex paramedic, I value life, regardless of what that person has done. Are there times when lethal force is neccesary? Yes. Is it just very flipant and funny when someone dies? Never! Yes, I am licesnsed to carry as well as my wife. I've been attacked while carrying my gun, when 6 guys jumped in my car. Stupid me left the doors unlocked. I couldn't defend myself at all while in the car. I got the bad end of the fight, very bad end. Then they pulled me out, as they did I knocked two of them down and put a distance inbetween me and them. A distance perfect for drawing my weapon. But I didn't draw the weapon, they charged me all at once, it took quite a while to evade, and then attack one guy, evade, then attack another, but after what seemed to be years of that incounter, the three guys left standing took off. they are now all in jail, but you know what...None of them are dead. I could have shot all of them, and been protected by the law, but then 6 20 year olds are alive and have a chance to change thier life, because of me. I think that is the nature of a "good guy".
:soapbox:

7sm

[KennethKu]

If you drew and fired a warning shot into the air, they would have scrammed. That would have saved you a lot of work.

[tmanifold]

I think a gun can be useful but if you carry a gun and get into an altercation some one will use that gun, it is almost inevitable. Police officers often have this problem, they go for their gun instead of just hitting some one when that is the better response. It can be both a hindrance or a useful tool.

tony

[7starmantis]

Originally posted by KennethKu

If you drew and fired a warning shot into the air, they would have scrammed. That would have saved you a lot of work.

Would have saved me work, but landed me in jail. At least in the great state of Texas, if you even show your concieled handgun without the use of deadly force being used, or warrented, you go to jail. If you fire a round, anywhere, regardless, you go to jail. You can't just pull your gun and wave it around. It is there only for the time when lethal force is most decidedly needed. And for those times only.


7sm

[KennethKu]

6 guys attacking you, attempting to carjack you, and you don't think that is a justifiable use of deadly force? (Besides, you would be firing a warning shot, hardly a use of deadly force) That makes no sense what so ever. By your logic, it is "Hey , come on ,you jackass, you draw first, otherwise I can't shoot you. Come on, draw please!!!"

You wanna wait till they pull a blade or a gun first?

Heck , by your account there, if they were armed with a knive or a gun, the outcome would be a lot different.

The legal test is "reasonable belief that one is facing immediate danger to one's life " . Being attack by 6 carjacking thugs, passes that test in flying color.

[Kirk]

Originally posted by 7starmantis



Would have saved me work, but landed me in jail. At least in the great state of Texas, if you even show your concieled handgun without the use of deadly force being used, or warrented, you go to jail. If you fire a round, anywhere, regardless, you go to jail. You can't just pull your gun and wave it around. It is there only for the time when lethal force is most decidedly needed. And for those times only.


7sm

Dude, that is so NOT true! I don't begrudge you your own
misinformation, but you're spreading them on this board!
Go take that course again! Everything you say that's law here
is not only the OPPOSITE of things I was told in MY course, but
I've also asked law enforcement officers about it, to validate my
suspicions. On THIS one ... I'VE DONE IT! And my life wasn't
being threatened either. When I told the cops I fired in the air,
they laughed!!!!! They said the worst I could've been charged
with was "unlawful discharge of a firearm in the city limits" ... a
Class C misdemeanor! A.k.a. a TICKET, not a visit to the local
jail.

[7starmantis]

Originally posted by Kirk



Dude, that is so NOT true! I don't begrudge you your own
misinformation, but you're spreading them on this board!
Go take that course again! Everything you say that's law here
is not only the OPPOSITE of things I was told in MY course, but
I've also asked law enforcement officers about it, to validate my
suspicions. On THIS one ... I'VE DONE IT! And my life wasn't
being threatened either. When I told the cops I fired in the air,
they laughed!!!!! They said the worst I could've been charged
with was "unlawful discharge of a firearm in the city limits" ... a
Class C misdemeanor! A.k.a. a TICKET, not a visit to the local
jail.

Hey man, there is no need to get testy, the informatin I am giving is from three different sources in law enforcement. The Chief of Police in Chandler Texas, The Sherif of Smith County, and my family attourney, Harry Fulton, who also happens to be my uncle. If we have been given different information I'm sorry, but there really is no need for you to jump my case like this. Lets try and keep this board about respect. As adults we can have differing opinions and still communicate peacfully. I don't doubt that some, even most cops would laugh if you shot your gun in the air, but the law states it illegal. If you show your gun beyond resonable mistake in public, you are breaking the law. If you would like, I will go find all my old law books and look up the specific law for you case and number. However, I don't think this is the place for us to get in a "pissing" contest. If you feel comfortable shooting your gun in the air with no thought of where that bullet will land, thats your perogative. My perogative is speak my opinion and have my own beliefs. You shouldn't be jumping on me for speaking them. Aren't you a moderator of this board ?

7sm

[7starmantis]

Originally posted by KennethKu

6 guys attacking you, attempting to carjack you, and you don't think that is a justifiable use of deadly force? (Besides, you would be firing a warning shot, hardly a use of deadly force) That makes no sense what so ever. By your logic, it is "Hey , come on ,you jackass, you draw first, otherwise I can't shoot you. Come on, draw please!!!"

You wanna wait till they pull a blade or a gun first?

Heck , by your account there, if they were armed with a knive or a gun, the outcome would be a lot different.

The legal test is "reasonable belief that one is facing immediate danger to one's life " . Being attack by 6 carjacking thugs, passes that test in flying color.

Thats fine nad of course your opinion. No one can judge the "feeling" of an incounter without being in that encounter. I didn't feel my life was in danger. Also, they did not have weapons, had they been armed the situation would most deffinatly have been different. I don't think this is the place to get into moral beliefs on when it is correct to end someones life, we have differing opinions, and thats ok. I'm not going to pull my weapon just to scare them that is wrong and against the law. If I felt my life was in danger, I would have used said force, but I just didn't feel it was necesary. Me getting my butt kicked is not justifiable means to end a life, as far as I'm concerned. I understand that I am alone in that belief and thats fine, but lets not get into a discussion that will pull us away from the topic here.



7sm

[redfive]

ya , I'm sure they have realy changed there lives, they went to jail and now they are realy pissed off at society and will probably go about there live of crime, except they now have the chance to realy kill someone. You have more faith in people thin I do. I would have at least shot one, he would be the example for the rest. They did not care about your life any, you just gave them more opertunity to kill you. So If I where you, which I'm not, I would leave your gun at home, becouse it seems to be dead weight. But we most likely have seen different things in life, and I to have seen a lot of needless death. God gave me the gift of life and I will keep it at all cost, until he tells me other wise.Agian as for takeing a life, it is a bad deal. If I did kill someone it would saden me., becouse it is a waste of life. But you have to figure how many people have those guys attacked before they attacked you, and got away with it. So if someone wonts to kill you, no telling how many people they did kill before you and no telling how many more they will kill, if you dont stop them. If you have the ability then we need to use it for those who cant. The police are not there to protect you, there job is to inforce the structure of the law once it has been broke. And if I do get sued or for some reason do go to jail, either way I am alive.

[Kirk]

Originally posted by 7starmantis



Hey man, there is no need to get testy, the informatin I am giving is from three different sources in law enforcement. The Chief of Police in Chandler Texas, The Sherif of Smith County, and my family attourney, Harry Fulton, who also happens to be my uncle. If we have been given different information I'm sorry, but there really is no need for you to jump my case like this. Lets try and keep this board about respect. As adults we can have differing opinions and still communicate peacfully. I don't doubt that some, even most cops would laugh if you shot your gun in the air, but the law states it illegal. If you show your gun beyond resonable mistake in public, you are breaking the law. If you would like, I will go find all my old law books and look up the specific law for you case and number. However, I don't think this is the place for us to get in a "pissing" contest. If you feel comfortable shooting your gun in the air with no thought of where that bullet will land, thats your perogative. My perogative is speak my opinion and have my own beliefs. You shouldn't be jumping on me for speaking them. Aren't you a moderator of this board ?

7sm

Ugh, here we go again. I didn't intend on making it sound
disrespectful. I didn't intend on making it seem like a pissing
contest. I thought I was giving my opinion, and that's
it, but apparently I'm not. Sorry to write in such a way that
my opinion makes me sound rude/disrespectful/pissing contestant
and what have you. Hell, I wasn't even heated. I'll avoid this
thread from now on.

[7starmantis]

Originally posted by redfive

ya , I'm sure they have realy changed there lives, they went to jail and now they are realy pissed off at society and will probably go about there live of crime, except they now have the chance to realy kill someone. You have more faith in people thin I do. I would have at least shot one, he would be the example for the rest. They did not care about your life any, you just gave them more opertunity to kill you. So If I where you, which I'm not, I would leave your gun at home, becouse it seems to be dead weight. But we most likely have seen different things in life, and I to have seen a lot of needless death. God gave me the gift of life and I will keep it at all cost, until he tells me other wise.Agian as for takeing a life, it is a bad deal. If I did kill someone it would saden me., becouse it is a waste of life. But you have to figure how many people have those guys attacked before they attacked you, and got away with it. So if someone wonts to kill you, no telling how many people they did kill before you and no telling how many more they will kill, if you dont stop them. If you have the ability then we need to use it for those who cant. The police are not there to protect you, there job is to inforce the structure of the law once it has been broke. And if I do get sued or for some reason do go to jail, either way I am alive.

Well, actually one of them is now a social worker for the state, so his life was changed. The others I couldn't tell you about. But, I just don't feel that we have the right to decide a persons future for them. You and I wouldn't like it if someone decided ours for us. I have seen more needless death than most having worked most of my life as a paramedic in one of the largest cities in america. I'm not tryin to say you shouldn't use lethal force when neccesary, I'm just saying its not as neccesary as people belive it is. You said that there is no telling how many people they attacked before me, or will attack after me, so I should stop them when I have the chance. Thats exactly what I did. I put them into the legal system and now if they so much as start a fight, they will most likely end back up in jail. We have no right to decide someone future like that. Thats why we have courts and such. The police ARE there to protect, "To Serve and Protect". I don' thave the right to say, well they may attack someone else so, BANG, I ended there life. That makes me just as bad as them.


JMHO
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[7starmantis]

Originally posted by Kirk



Ugh, here we go again. I didn't intend on making it sound
disrespectful. I didn't intend on making it seem like a pissing
contest. I thought I was giving my opinion, and that's
it, but apparently I'm not. Sorry to write in such a way that
my opinion makes me sound rude/disrespectful/pissing contestant
and what have you. Hell, I wasn't even heated. I'll avoid this
thread from now on.

Look man, I'm not sayin your should leave this thread. I enjoy yoru input, it just seemed that you were getting a little disrespectful so I let you know. I'm very up front like that, if you piss me off, I'm gonna tell you. I expect the same from my friends. Thats why I posted what I did. The fact that we have differing opinions, but can still post together and respond to each other formaly, is what makes us in control of ourselves. I feel that is a big part of martial arts as well. So, if I offended you, I'm truly sorry, I just felt disrespect and wanted to let you know. No hard feelings, that can happen when people are passionate about things and are discussing them. So please, come back and post man, you have great insight that we miss if your gone! We can even get beyond this topic since we are getting stuck on it.



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[KennethKu]

7sm

It is not a moral judgement call.

It is a situation assessment call.

It is your life, if you judged that you were not at risk, that was your call.

My question is how did you know they were not armed? If you wait for them to draw first.......... :)

Most people would judge differently. Your life, your call . :)

As for the legality concerning the use of firearm in Texas, there seems to be 2 versions now lol. I don't live in Texas, so I have no idea.

The thing is how the heck you 2 Texans took the course and came out with 2 different versions of the gun law? lol

[Kirk]

Originally posted by 7starmantis



Look man, I'm not sayin your should leave this thread. I enjoy yoru input, it just seemed that you were getting a little disrespectful so I let you know. I'm very up front like that, if you piss me off, I'm gonna tell you. I expect the same from my friends. Thats why I posted what I did. The fact that we have differing opinions, but can still post together and respond to each other formaly, is what makes us in control of ourselves. I feel that is a big part of martial arts as well. So, if I offended you, I'm truly sorry, I just felt disrespect and wanted to let you know. No hard feelings, that can happen when people are passionate about things and are discussing them. So please, come back and post man, you have great insight that we miss if your gone! We can even get beyond this topic since we are getting stuck on it.



7sm

Seriously dude, show me where i was disrespectful? I expressed
my opinions on the matter, and then you throw accusations at
me. And then had to go with the old "aren't you a moderator" bit
too! I soooooo should drop this, but I'd REALLY like to know.
Apparently I'm disrespectful/rude on this board a LOT where I
think I'm expressing my opinion. PLEASE show me.

[redfive]

Kirk,

If you do piss him off, al least you know he's not going to shoot you.

But all and all that is what this great country of ours is founded on. We all have choices and we can all speak our minds and learn from each other.

Redfive

"Have gun, Will travel"

[Radhnoti]

7star,

Kirk, redfive and Kenneth's POV would, as I understand it, be legally correct in KY. Six versus one would certainly making drawing a firearm an appropriate response.
Just throwin' in my two cents. Take care.

[Kirk]

Originally posted by Radhnoti

7star,

Kirk, redfive and Kenneth's POV would, as I understand it, be legally correct in KY. Six versus one would certainly making drawing a firearm an appropriate response.
Just throwin' in my two cents. Take care.


Thanks Radhnoti, and welcome to Martial Talk!

[7starmantis]

Originally posted by Radhnoti

7star,

Kirk, redfive and Kenneth's POV would, as I understand it, be legally correct in KY. Six versus one would certainly making drawing a firearm an appropriate response.
Just throwin' in my two cents. Take care.

I do think drawing your weapon during this situation is appropriate, I didn't say it wasn't, I was just saying that in the particular incident, I personaly didn't feel the need. Thats all. And we were speaking of Texas laws. But thanks for your input, and welcome to the boards.


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[Kirk]

Note that 7starmantis and I were each told something different
by law enforcement officials, our own permit classes and
attornies. If you live in Texas, I suggest asking these questions,
if ever interested in carrying a concealed weapon in our state.

[Kenpo Wolf]

Originally posted by redfive
So if someone does mock your martial arts and says that he could shoot you, put him to the test, give him a practice gun and tell him to draw on you, when you start to close in on him. Start at about 10-15 feet. Its great practice for both of you and alot can be learned. Its best if you use a bb gun pistol or something that has a real trigger to pull.


Gun defenses can also be done with a water pistol filled with ink, but make sure you use eye protection and a older uniform, or one of those toy guns that shoots the rubber darts. But remember that a real bullet from a gun is a whole hell of a lot faster then either of these.

BTW, my point on guns is that even though I have no use for them, I do not have any problem with people with guns as long as they are responsible and well trained.

[Nightingale]

there's stuff you can get at Toys R Us or a joke store. its disappearing ink. and the ink really does disappear... I shot my mom's peach silk dress when I was a kid...she freaked, but by the time she got to the mirror to assess the damage, the ink was gone. Its safe, so you don't have to worry about eye protection, and the ink will come out of your uniform.

http://www.penguinmagic.com/browse.php?category=pranks


http://www.worldwidemagic.com/no-fun1.htm

[7starmantis]

Originally posted by nightingale8472

there's stuff you can get at Toys R Us or a joke store. its disappearing ink. and the ink really does disappear... I shot my mom's peach silk dress when I was a kid...she freaked, but by the time she got to the mirror to assess the damage, the ink was gone. Its safe, so you don't have to worry about eye protection, and the ink will come out of your uniform.

http://www.penguinmagic.com/browse.php?category=pranks


http://www.worldwidemagic.com/no-fun1.htm

I've trained with that before, it really good to use. HAHA, and fun too! especially if you shoot someone around you and watch them freak out! (evil laugh). ANYWAY, remember to get a good solid gun though, we kept breaking ours.


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