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Dark
06-03-2006, 02:59 AM
Training To Win Means Training To Lose:

In order to grow we must be challenged, we must make
things as hard as possible, with them being too
dangerous. To a few of you this will not make sense,
to others it will. We grow, we adapt, and we evolve.
That’s what makes us alive. We grow stronger when we
need more strength. We become faster when we need to
be fast. This is because in those extreme moments of
fear, pain, or distress we find something inside of us
we never knew was there. Thus we can apply this
knowledge to our lives and our arts (regardless of
what they may be).

When I wrestled in High School my coach decided I
wanted to use too much muscle and not enough
techniques. So he put against someone who was
stronger, and I couldn't out muscle. But in time I did
because I had to. It was only whenl I had to fight a
technically better wrestler that my techniques
improved. I apply this principle to my style as well.

I send my slower students against those faster to
learn speed. I send those in a hurry against those who
are patient and methodical, to learn to be patient.
Even in my own training I put myself against those
who would be my “superiors”. I don't do it for
bragging rights, ego, or anything else. I do it to
become stronger. We can not rise above ourselves until
we have reached our limits and only then can we push
on to break them.

Thus we must train to lose, fight our superiors,
and push ourselves to the next level. No matter what
that might be. We must forget pride, ego, honor, and
all else. Nothing can exist except what we are doing,
be it fighting, writing, being a friend, or making
love. Because when you reach whatever thresh hold you
think you have and push on past it you grow in ways
you can not understand, physically, mentally, and
emotionally...

Remain Well,
Ron Collins

still learning
06-18-2006, 10:27 PM
Hello, Interesting point here. How many times you have heard of top people who lost...almost give up....then work harder and later become some of the best in the world. .......happens all the time........Aloha

Aqua4ever
06-19-2006, 11:23 PM
This was very interesting...I like the ideas presented! It's always good to work with someone that has the skills you desire!

Drac
06-20-2006, 08:50 AM
Excellent points Ron,,

terryl965
06-20-2006, 08:53 AM
Great points
Terry

MJS
06-20-2006, 09:04 AM
Just noticed this here. Interesting article! Thanks for posting it.

Mike

Brother John
06-20-2006, 09:51 AM
Hello, Interesting point here. How many times you have heard of top people who lost...almost give up....then work harder and later become some of the best in the world. .......happens all the time........Aloha

as steel sharpens upon steel..
man sharpens upon man!

good Post!!

Your Brother
John

Dark
06-20-2006, 07:00 PM
Thank you all for your kind words, the artile is pretty old origionally written for a friends MMA site.

Jenna
06-20-2006, 08:24 PM
Thus we must train to lose, fight our superiors,
and push ourselves to the next level. No matter what
that might be.



Hey mister Dark :) this is a very interesting piece .. thank you for it. Can I ask how is the balance struck when training to LOSE? I mean if a student loses all the time there is a good chance they will become deflated in which case ego will take over try to save itself and the student may well leave altogether.. How do you strike the balance of keeping up morale while going through this unorthodox "losing" methodology? *interested*

Yr most obdt hmble srvt,
Jenna

stickarts
06-20-2006, 09:12 PM
some great points!

I have found to keep my head on straight it is good to work with people both more experienced and less experienced than myself.
The more experienced shows you you have yet much to learn, the less experienced helps remind you that you are improving.

I definately agree that you should always be striving to become better and not let yourself become the big fish in the small pond! :)
Always challenge yourself.

BigMike
06-20-2006, 09:32 PM
I have found to keep my head on straight it is good to work with people both more experienced and less experienced than myself.
The more experienced shows you you have yet much to learn, the less experienced helps remind you that you are improving.


This is exactly how I've always felt in classes that spar. I never had a prayer of besting my teacher, but he kept it toned to only be slightly better than me, encouraging me to expand my limits just a little each class. By the time I got to the point were it could have been discouraging, I was able to compare myself to other and newer students, which showed me the skills I had built up in that time.

I don't know that I'd like to think of it as 'training to lose', but this is a concept I try to employ in all aspects of my life. I try to spend time with people smarter than myself (not hard to find you might say), train with people with something to teach me, and in general be around people I want to be like. Nice writeup.

Mike

Dark
06-20-2006, 11:33 PM
Hey mister Dark :) this is a very interesting piece .. thank you for it. Can I ask how is the balance struck when training to LOSE? I mean if a student loses all the time there is a good chance they will become deflated in which case ego will take over try to save itself and the student may well leave altogether.. How do you strike the balance of keeping up morale while going through this unorthodox "losing" methodology? *interested*

Yr most obdt hmble srvt,
Jenna

I will tell you the same thing I told my students on their first day in my dojo, when I had one.

I'm from the streets, I grew up hard and I learned to fight hard. The first lesson any "retired street fighter" knows the reason they are "retired" is that no one wins a fight. There is no winners in life, just survivers, and that regard you need to think long and hard about what you are willing to lose to keep what you have, or think you have...

The idea is simple, we approach reality. No one wins, and everyone in some regard loses, especially where violence is a concern. If you face a tougher opponent you know you can't beat what does that leave you? The room to improve, a reason to become better and a chance to exercise your will power. If you get beat by a guy who is obviously your better why feel bad, it's 87 pound cute blond chick who can barely open the dojo door thats the ego killer lol...

Dark
06-20-2006, 11:48 PM
Oh yeah Jenna I forgot, the thing about training with the expectation of losing, knowingly facing a loaded deck as it where. There is no competion, each sparring match becomes about survival and not another notch in the belt. What that translates to in the street is, look a mugger defend, break contact, run like the wind and call the Police on my cell phone as running. If you approach sparring as a competition them subcontiously that set the fight, defend and win mentality. It's nothing wrong with sport MAs but it is the basic human preceptional function, with more experience this is over rided. Training to lose specifically is a short cut for early on strudents...