I have been watching a lot of wing chun footage recently and frankly the punches look really weak, specifically the famous flurry of straight punches. The wrists look like they are wet noodles and the punches are short with no noticable body weight behind them. Also there seems to be a fondness for punching someone in the back of the head.

Maybe it is because most of it is demonstation stuff, either solo or against a partner. It has been mostly WT stuff, w/ Emin Boztepe or people from the WT, Latosa escrima group.

Am I missing something, is this done on purpose for some reason, or was it just badly done in the vids I have seen?

Tony

See also this thread:
http://www.martialtalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2274

Wing Chun is primarily a short range style. Dr. Joseph Smith addresses alot of what you mentioned in his book "Wing Chun Kung-Fu Vol 2"

Good book, IMHO.

:asian:

[QUOTE]Originally posted by tmanifold

[B]I have been watching a lot of wing chun footage recently and frankly the punches look really weak, specifically the famous flurry of straight punches. The wrists look like they are wet noodles and the punches are short with no noticable body weight behind them.



I have seen the one inch punch that wing chun practitioners do do some pretty good damage. And don't mock the chain punching. Because of the way it attacks the centreline it has helped me out of a few short range bouts during some sparring matches in TKD competitions.

Originally posted by artful dodger


I have seen the one inch punch that wing chun practitioners do do some pretty good damage. And don't mock the chain punching. Because of the way it attacks the centreline it has helped me out of a few short range bouts during some sparring matches in TKD competitions.

It wasn't a question of mocking them, I was just unsure. The description in the other thread helped though thanks


Tony

I think what you may be seeing is the wrist action involved in a WC punch. Unlike karate or TKD, WC practitioners strike with the bottome two or three knuckles, not the first two. Also, the punches are delivered vertically. The wrist action serves to drive the striking knuckles into the target with each punch, among other things.

Like many things in martial arts, the WC punch is one of those things that's better felt than seen :)

Cthulhu

Originally posted by Cthulhu

I think what you may be seeing is the wrist action involved in a WC punch. Unlike karate or TKD, WC practitioners strike with the bottome two or three knuckles, not the first two. Also, the punches are delivered vertically. The wrist action serves to drive the striking knuckles into the target with each punch, among other things.

Like many things in martial arts, the WC punch is one of those things that's better felt than seen :)

Cthulhu

No, it wasn't that. the limp noodle was <- | -> on the vertical fist. I understand the last minute action on the vertical axis but this looked like the wrists of old women in a tae bo class.

Tony

Originally posted by tmanifold



No, it wasn't that. the limp noodle was <- | -> on the vertical fist. I understand the last minute action on the vertical axis but this looked like the wrists of old women in a tae bo class.

Tony

Hmmm. Got me, then. Either they were just being sloppy, or they were being overly careful with air punching to preserve their elbows or something.

Nice way of describing what you meant :)

Cthulhu

Hi guys,

Chain punches do look quite weak because we are not trying to push through the target but rather keep the hands and arms totally relaxed and deliver a snappy penetrating power. That being said I think that they are way over used. They are mainly a training tool used to get the student to throw rapid strikes at one spot although some types of WC do use them as a primary weapon. Problem is they are easy to stop and if you are used to taking a punch you can brush them off. If I were to use a chain punching action it would be with palm strikes instead, or maybe throw 2 chain punches and make the 3rd a right cross or something. :)

like the other arts, Wing Chun has pressure point techs.- lots of em. chain punches not only train penetrating power and punching endurance. they are one method of striking one or various points in quick succession. as far as the "limp noodle" thing i can only guess that the demonstrators were over-exagerating the need for relaxation before the moment of impact....or they were just plain sloppy.

I would never claim that chain punches are a knockout technique although they can do damage, It all depends on the skill level and size of the practitioner.

What I do teach them for and have used them for repeatedly is to open an opponent up for power shots as mentioned earlier.
Unless you are used to chain punches coming at you it is a very disconcerting attack.

Wing chun punches are not intended to be power orientated, no disrespect to any other styles.

I will not try and patronise anyone by giving history lessons, but the art of Wing Chun was allegedly originated from a woman, so power would not have been a first issue.

Wing Chun punches are thrown with a relaxed arm, the point of contact is the bottom three knuckles. At the moment of impact some schools of Wing Chun like the punches to be slightly tilted up, to give the punch a slight whipping action. Hence the loose wrists.

Hope this helps

Wing Chun straight punches ARE powerful when done correctly. The stance is a big part of the punch. Also wing chun is not limited to just the straight punch. Check out this article. http://www.wckfo.com.au/article_05.html

Regards

the wing chun punch is really strong and fast if done properly
many have already said that you use the bottom 3 knucklesthat is the reson for the "weak wrists"... it looks kind of weak


the punch can be a great knock out punch though
it only takes like 20 lbs of pressure in the righ tplace to KO a person so the speed and structure make up for the lack of body weight



to see it done properly all you need is to see a good video

if you got some spare money i recomend Benny Mengs videos
then again most people dont

In my first experience with these punches, they felt weak to me, performing them, as I haven't got the body mechanics down yet. Part of it is indeed getting the footwork right and the hips positioned properly; another is delivering the punches at the proper range, which is shorter than what I'm used to.

When my instructor delivers them, or demonstrates chain punches, they are anything but weak. I can only hope I'll achieve a fraction of his skill.

To get good power in your Wing Chun punches you need to have a good stance as well as forward force. This is aquired by practicing the sil lim tao form as well as hitting the wall bag. Which teaches you to have your arms aligned properly when punching. Most of the power comes from your elbows when punching. Most begginers in Wing Chun tend to do the egg beater and not punch out straight through their elbows. To witness the power of the punches you can purchase Master Jim Fungs Video, it shows him hitting the wall bag and I tell you I'd hate to be the wall bag.

Regarding the original post that started this thread
Wouldnt you rather punch someone in the back of the head during a rather than the face? Think about it- if you are hitting them in the back they are most likely not able to hit you back. Also wing chun stress footwork that gets you out of the way but still close enough to do damge- which is why someone may end up to the side or behind an oppoent which is a good place to be.

Also to a degree chain punches are basic al;though beneficial for training but there are so many other varieties of strikes that can be used by a person of just moderate skill.

I would say through my training that I personally prefer Wing Chun punches to TKD punches. WC straight punches are more relaxed for me, they create a driving force and are alot lot easier on my joints, and they feel good (especially if you watch the speed in the reflection of a mirror lol). TKD punches are good too but they are slower and are from the hip, they also seem more stressful on my joints and since I've stopped doing them I dont seem to have clicking in my elbow when I do press ups anymore, but that just might be me! :btg:

I always thought the Wing Chun punches were weak to until I sarted getting hit by them. When me and my instructor train, make no mistake, I go home with black eyes, my wife hates it. Its basicly tradition that I get a black eye every saturday. Durring the week is conditioning drills for the arms and shins which is also very grizzly in a way, but its working. Dont doubt the power of wing chun.

I always thought the Wing Chun punches were weak to until I sarted getting hit by them. When me and my instructor train, make no mistake, I go home with black eyes, my wife hates it. Its basicly tradition that I get a black eye every saturday. Durring the week is conditioning drills for the arms and shins which is also very grizzly in a way, but its working. Dont doubt the power of wing chun.
Lol! I got to agree with Delamar.J especially since he was once dissapointed in Wing Chun and now knows what its like! That reminds me I've got a huge bruise on my arm.............

I always thought the Wing Chun punches were weak to until I sarted getting hit by them. When me and my instructor train, make no mistake, I go home with black eyes, my wife hates it. Its basicly tradition that I get a black eye every saturday. Durring the week is conditioning drills for the arms and shins which is also very grizzly in a way, but its working. Dont doubt the power of wing chun.

Wait till you get to the palm strikes. All that force gets transmitted into the hardest bones in your body other than the teeth. That's when the bruising really began for me. :)

Talking of Wing Chun punches has anybody got the cylinder discs that Bruce Lee mentions in his Training Method book. The discs that improve the speed and snap of the punching? Anybody know what I mean?

Regards

Could you describe these cylinder discs?

Could you describe these cylinder discs?
I'm afraid not, he merely mentions them as being cyclinder discs, oh well, cheers anyway!