Finally, a way to train realistically with knives...

[barriecusvein]

finally some people have come up with a training knife that simulates the real thing. basically the 'edge' is electrified so if it touches you you get shocked. the idea is to get that fear of pain into you when training that wooden or rubber knives just cant replace.

http://www.shocknife.com/index.html

theyre pretty pricey at $500 each, but if youve got the money then why not?

[CuongNhuka]

It looks like an idea. But I'll just stick with chacking rubber knives. That'll cost a few bucks, and it'll last you a few months. No need for batteries.

[MJS]

finally some people have come up with a training knife that simulates the real thing. basically the 'edge' is electrified so if it touches you you get shocked. the idea is to get that fear of pain into you when training that wooden or rubber knives just cant replace.

http://www.shocknife.com/index.html

theyre pretty pricey at $500 each, but if youve got the money then why not?

Pretty interesting, but a steep price. You'll certainly get a different reaction compared to seeing the 'cuts' to your body if you're using a marker or chalk.

Mike

[still learning]

Hello, Thank-you for sharing that info! When most of you train against knife attacks,(free style)...most of you know it is almost impossible to get away without being cut.

Spending that kind of money for electric knife, to find out this out? ....not neccessary.

In one book I read, an Instructor of the police department trains officers around the country including military on knife defense. On the first day he have them all attack him....not one got away without being cut. These were professional there for more training to take back and teach their own people. The lesson...if professional had a hard time...what about you?

In knife attacks...it will happen fast,furious, and may not even be seen,till it is too late......

Most experts...will keep the knife hidden until they attack... Remember practice in class is one thing....in the real world on the streets...caught by surprise...the adrenline kicking in...the heart pounding...the mind..looking at is this happening to me? ....boom..knife is in your body... knife attack in the real streets...this is different feeling here?

best to run......Aloha

[bobster_ice]

Should this thread not be in the knife forums?


$500? No way man, I wouldnt even spend that amount of money on weights.

[Martial Tucker]

Most experts...will keep the knife hidden until they attack... Remember practice in class is one thing....in the real world on the streets...caught by surprise...the adrenline kicking in...the heart pounding...the mind..looking at is this happening to me? ....boom..knife is in your body... knife attack in the real streets...this is different feeling here?

best to run......Aloha
This is a very good point. If you see someone who is moving towards you and is seemingly keeping one hand hidden, move away. If they adjust and continue towards you, still keeping the hand hidden, you can bet they have a weapon in the hidden hand.


As for the $500 knife, a couple of alternatives:

1. Get any training knife and apply any cheap, red lipstick around the edge of the blade. It will be obvious when you are "cut".

2. Get a cordless curling iron for about $15-$20. Heat it up and use it as a practice knife. Again, you will know when you are "cut".

Both of these are better done wearing t-shirts than gi/doboks.

[mrhnau]

I'd love something like that, but its about 10x too expensive for my taste... anyone here have any experience with it? I'd like to hear some opinions if so...

[Don Roley]

I think people have missed the idea behind this thing.

Yeah, chalking or putting lipstick on a knife will tell you that you you fouled up. You lose a little pride. Are you really as scared of if as you would a real knife?

A few weeks ago I read Grossman's "On Killing." A damn interesting read from my perspective.

Did you know that different parts of the brain deal with different situations as in life and death type of things? Grossman uses the term "conditioning" and actively draws a parallel with the stuff by Pavlov for training people to deal with deadly situations.

But you can simulate a deadly situation close enough to make the brain think it is one and some armies have been using this for decades.

This thing does not only tell you when you got hit, it is about as nasty as a dinner with my mother in law. It is not like a chalked knife, it is like feeling a knife cut into you from what I hear. You fear the knife and react like a real one after a hit or two.

I read a review by John Farhham a while back. Of all the things at a recent show, this was one of the things he singled out for praise and said he was going to get one. I am considering getting one now. I just happen to have someone who owes me just the same amount as this knife. Yeah it is costly. But I expect to lend it out to others and get some favors in kind for its use.

I will come back and give my opinion when I do.

[DavidCC]

Chalking or lip-sticking a knife will tell you after the fact where you got cut, but it looks like this thing will give you immediate stimulus that you will react to during the struggle.

Looks like a lot of fun LOL.

[mrhnau]

I've not had the time to totally read the advertisements, but what -would- be fun would be a pressure sensetive trigger.. you get more shock with more force used. If you would just have been lightly injured, you get a small shock. You get your arm cut off, you get a huge shock... that would be quite informative when training.. now, granted, even a small cut can cause quite a bit of bleeding and danger, but still... would be interesting :)

[terryl965]

All I can say is it is a unique ideal but the price tag is hefty and unrealistic for me.
Terry

[JenniM]

In one book I read, an Instructor of the police department trains officers around the country including military on knife defense. On the first day he have them all attack him....not one got away without being cut. These were professional there for more training to take back and teach their own people. The lesson...if professional had a hard time...what about you?

In knife attacks...it will happen fast,furious, and may not even be seen,till it is too late......

Most experts...will keep the knife hidden until they attack... Remember practice in class is one thing....in the real world on the streets...caught by surprise...the adrenline kicking in...the heart pounding...the mind..looking at is this happening to me? ....boom..knife is in your body... knife attack in the real streets...this is different feeling here? - best to run......Aloha

Hi there,

I spent a little time training in AMOK with Mr Tom Sotis which I really enjoyed and man did this open my eyes to the reality of blades!! Bladework is a mentality and therefore you have to train as realistically in class as you can - we used the marker training knives in various scenarios, blade v blade, blade v empty hand, blade v stick and it was kind of a leveller to leave class looking like a zebra!!! In full blade mode, a blade has numerous applications ranging from deterrent strikes with shallow cuts to fingers, hands and arms to repel your attacker, and at crisis point you can simply progress to deeper slashing and thrusting when you want to incapacitate or the last resort of deadly force is necessary. I therefore think that both the training blades that leave their mark and the "shock" training blade probably both have their uses, I certainly agree that you are able to be cut without actually feeling it, due to the adrenalin dump, especially with the more shallow cuts, - using a little bit of reverse psychology at this point to refer your opponent to his/her bleeding cut can in some cases end the confrontation, because visual impact of bleeding can often result in the psychological halting of aggression. So you're not always going to feel something when you've been cut, in fact if you're pumped up and up against a professional knife fighter you certainly wont until its too late!!! Having said that I am sure the opposite is also true in the deeper slashing and thrusting where you certainly do feel the cut and shock would probably then set in - hence I guess this new blade would probably have its uses - but maybe it would be a little late at this point - just my thoughts on an interesting subject:asian:

[Andrew Green]

So am I the only one questioning the "It's for realism" bit when the guy in the picture looks like a schi fi version of a evil pillsbury doe boy with all that padding?

It looks like a low budget movie space suit...? Realism in training? what?

[JenniM]

So am I the only one questioning the "It's for realism" bit when the guy in the picture looks like a schi fi version of a evil pillsbury doe boy with all that padding?

It looks like a low budget movie space suit...? Realism in training? what?

LOL!! I'm with you on that one - the gear's shocking all by itself without the knife! - Not sure I could move in all that gear though - never trained in it but I'd be interested to hear from anyone who has and its pros/cons.

[terryl965]

So am I the only one questioning the "It's for realism" bit when the guy in the picture looks like a schi fi version of a evil pillsbury doe boy with all that padding?

It looks like a low budget movie space suit...? Realism in training? what?

No andrew I agree with your statement also.
Terry

[Blindside]

So am I the only one questioning the "It's for realism" bit when the guy in the picture looks like a schi fi version of a evil pillsbury doe boy with all that padding?

It looks like a low budget movie space suit...? Realism in training? what?

I just assumed it was so the defender could use hard contact striking during his defense, much like Fist/Redman/High Gear suits are. In most of those scenarios the defender doesn't wear gear.

Lamont

[Don Roley]

I've not had the time to totally read the advertisements, but what -would- be fun would be a pressure sensetive trigger.. you get more shock with more force used. If you would just have been lightly injured, you get a small shock. You get your arm cut off, you get a huge shock... that would be quite informative when training..

That would be cool. Give them ten years and maybe they can do it. I would love more to see a case where you could safely stab someone with something like this. Even without an edge, a solid piece of metal like this could do some damage and is the one big reason I hesitate to get it. A spring system that would allow the blade to collapse a bit into the hilt while giving a real nasty taser effect to incompacitate the reciever would be wonderfull. That would be the next step in realism.


In full blade mode, a blade has numerous applications ranging from deterrent strikes with shallow cuts to fingers, hands and arms to repel your attacker, and at crisis point you can simply progress to deeper slashing and thrusting when you want to incapacitate or the last resort of deadly force is necessary.

My God! :xtrmshock Have you bothered to try to run that line of thinking past a lawyer specializing in the use of deadly weapons?

You need to. Try reading nonnonsenseselfdefense.com for a start and follow the links to the Massaad Ayoob stuff as well as all the stuff on real street combat and the use of knives.

Short version- almost everywhere you are only allowed to pull a deadly weapon like a knife when you feel your life is in such danger that you need to kill the other guy. If you use it on the other guy and do not try to kill him, then you are obviously not that scared for your life. That is the way the law looks at things. Talk to a lawyer before you ever try what you say above in a real situation. If you ever use a weapon and say you were trying to cut him but were not trying to kill him you might be spending several years behind bars and shanked to death anyways.

Seriously, talk to a lawyer.

[JenniM]

My God! :xtrmshock Have you bothered to try to run that line of thinking past a lawyer specializing in the use of deadly weapons?

You need to. Try reading nonnonsenseselfdefense.com for a start and follow the links to the Massaad Ayoob stuff as well as all the stuff on real street combat and the use of knives.

Short version- almost everywhere you are only allowed to pull a deadly weapon like a knife when you feel your life is in such danger that you need to kill the other guy. If you use it on the other guy and do not try to kill him, then you are obviously not that scared for your life. That is the way the law looks at things. Talk to a lawyer before you ever try what you say above in a real situation. If you ever use a weapon and say you were trying to cut him but were not trying to kill him you might be spending several years behind bars and shanked to death anyways.

Seriously, talk to a lawyer.


Whoaahhh there!! Calm down!! - I was simply highlighting the reality and versatility of the blade, albeit it from my limited time spent training in this area over a couple of years. Unfortunately its not a "way of thinking" - unsavoury as it may be, its a fact! I am fully aware of the law here in the UK with regard to weapons and I might add abide by them. Obviously I am not advocating the use of the blade in this way outside of the realms of the law - but if it was mine/my family's life at stake against that of an assailant - you're damn right I would do whatever it took, what's the point otherwise? - "Better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6"!!:asian:

[Don Roley]

Obviously I am not advocating the use of the blade in this way outside of the realms of the law - but if it was mine/my family's life at stake against that of an assailant - you're damn right I would do whatever it took, what's the point otherwise? - "Better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6"!!:asian:

Oh, you just hit one of my big nerves in relation to self defense.

Have you ever had to face a jury? Do you even have a lawyer on retainer? I do.

Instead of the whole 'better to be judged' line, how about this.

"Better to leave your family penniless and alone because you lost everything to lawyer fees and judgements against you and died of AIDS after being gang raped in the prison shower than certain death now."

Did you look at nononsenseselfdefense.com like I reccomended? Did you take Masaad Ayoob coure like they recommend? If not, you are dealing with stuff you have no knowledge about.

I said to talk to a lawyer. Do it. Don't try to convince me that you are in the right because I know that you are going to get yourself in trouble with your attitude. Go get a lawyer, put him on retainer and have a good talk. Or take the chance that your actions may needlessly leave your family poor and without you take take care of them.

Trust me on this. Trust your lawyer on this.

[JenniM]

Oh, you just hit one of my big nerves in relation to self defense.

Have you ever had to face a jury? Do you even have a lawyer on retainer? I do.

Instead of the whole 'better to be judged' line, how about this.

"Better to leave your family penniless and alone because you lost everything to lawyer fees and judgements against you and died of AIDS after being gang raped in the prison shower than certain death now."

Did you look at nononsenseselfdefense.com like I reccomended? Did you take Masaad Ayoob coure like they recommend? If not, you are dealing with stuff you have no knowledge about.

I said to talk to a lawyer. Do it. Don't try to convince me that you are in the right because I know that you are going to get yourself in trouble with your attitude. Go get a lawyer, put him on retainer and have a good talk. Or take the chance that your actions may needlessly leave your family poor and without you take take care of them.

Trust me on this. Trust your lawyer on this.

Sir! ....same planet, different worlds!!! I have been studying martial arts for 25 years and have never needed a lawyer yet so I guess my attitude's not all that bad huh? You have taken my original post completely out of context and seem to be looking to engage in conflict (maybe this is why you have a lawyer on retainer?) - therefore may I respectfully suggest that we agree to disagree and move on!:asian: On another note I see from your profile that you in Japan, which part? as as crazy as it sounds we actually have a club in Sendai!!

[Don Roley]

Sir! ....same planet, different worlds!!! I have been studying martial arts for 25 years and have never needed a lawyer

I have been driving for decades and never been in a bad accident. What is your point?

Honestly, what you are saying would scare a lawyer to death. You owe it to yourself to go and tell him what you said here rather than waiting for after you get into a situation where you use your knife.

[JenniM]

I have been driving for decades and never been in a bad accident. What is your point?

Honestly, what you are saying would scare a lawyer to death. You owe it to yourself to go and tell him what you said here rather than waiting for after you get into a situation where you use your knife.

Sir, my point is.....do you also retain a lawyer to advise you on what may happen if you by chance are involved in a bad accident or do you rely on your decades of experience and driving skill, knowledge of the law, judgement and common sense that you will do everything you can to avoid being involved in such an accident and if the unimaginable should happen THEN you would consult a lawyer? Different cultures obviously but that's how we do it over here as lawyer fees are extortionate and you don't pay for them unless you need them!! Sir, I thought I had plainly stated in my previous post but I will again clarify so that you are clear - I am well aware of the law in this Country and the legal, moral and psychological aspects of bladework. - as far as Marc MacYoung is concerned, hell yes, he tells it like it is and I agree with a lot of what he says and yes I also have read Lt Col Dave Grossman's "On Killing" and as you don't know me from adam you really are making some pretty huge assumptions about my character - I do thank you for your concern but really rest assured there is no need to be! :asian:

[Carol]

Frankly speaking ma'am I too am a little suprised at the the wording of your posts, especially given your relationship with Dr. Ron Chapél, who was giving you props yesterday morning on your advice to only train with a professional knife fighter if one wants to learn knife fighting.

Perhaps Dr. Chapél has been more verbose than anyone in the Kenpo forum about knowing the legal consequences of one's actions. Somehow I don't think the notion of using shallow cuts to forestall an attacker as something that would receive the same props from him. I could be wrong, though.

I don't say this out of dirsrespect ma'am, just as a difference of opinion. :asian:

[thescottishdude]

I think a plastic knife touching you is good enough to know that you need to improve it to be avoided. It sounds like they are tryign to prepare you for getting cut and slashed as a sort of conditioning?

[still learning]

Hello, Just one more thing to add here...if facing a knife fighter..and can't run...I sure other's can add more here...read somewhere about this...

If you have a belt on the pants ..use it as a striking weapon, jackets or shirts wrap your arms and hands,or as a whip, if the person is slashing at you.

Pick-up anything around you..that can be use to fight back..trash cans,bottles, sticks,stones,rocks (Is there a difference between stone and rocks?), spit, throw dirt, anything.

and always use both your hands when you grab the kinife hand and hang on for life...don't try to get fancy here...Use your head and legs to fight back with...

expect to be cut,stab, slash, and so on....(if you do take away the knife? ...give it back to him...in the neck..stomach,chest,legs,and any place that he will enjoy the gift too.......Aloha

[JenniM]

Frankly speaking ma'am I too am a little suprised at the the wording of your posts, especially given your relationship with Dr. Ron Chapél, who was giving you props yesterday morning on your advice to only train with a professional knife fighter if one wants to learn knife fighting.

Perhaps Dr. Chapél has been more verbose than anyone in the Kenpo forum about knowing the legal consequences of one's actions. Somehow I don't think the notion of using shallow cuts to forestall an attacker as something that would receive the same props from him. I could be wrong, though.

I don't say this out of dirsrespect ma'am, just as a difference of opinion. :asian:

No disrespect taken at all I assure you and I respect your opinion! - To clarify, my relationship with Dr Chapel is through my current training in Sub Level 4 Kenpo, I have also practiced motion based Kenpo for the past 25 years (and continue to do so) and my interest/limited experience in bladework comes through my training in AMOK over a couple of years with Mr Tom Sotis, the two are totally unrelated, I have my own opinions, formed from my own experience and am not influenced by any props I may or may not receive (even from the Doc who, I might add, I love to death :). :asian:

[JenniM]

Somehow I don't think the notion of using shallow cuts to forestall an attacker as something that would receive the same props from him. I could be wrong, though.

In case my post is being mis-interpreted I am referring to a blade v blade encounter and not a blade v empty hand and therefore of course I would not be forestalling an empty handed attacker with a blade in any situation!! I apologise if there was any confusion here. :asian:

[Carol]

Jenni, you aren't posting here anywhere near enough. Please don't be a stranger, ma'am. :asian:

[JenniM]

Jenni, you aren't posting here anywhere near enough. Please don't be a stranger, ma'am. :asian:

Carol, Time gets the better of me - I read everything but rarely post and when I do it seems I cause trouble lol!!! But thankyou - I will try!!:asian:

[Don Roley]

Sir, my point is.....do you also retain a lawyer to advise you on what may happen if you by chance are involved in a bad accident or do you rely on your decades of experience and driving skill, knowledge of the law, judgement and common sense that you will do everything you can to avoid being involved in such an accident and if the unimaginable should happen THEN you would consult a lawyer?

False analogy.

Driving is a daily reality for both of us. We see cars all around us. I went through a course in high school on the use of a car and the laws regarding them. I took a test on the law before they let me take the driving portion of the test. New laws are reported in the news when they happen.

None of the above can be said about knife fighting.

Maybe we need to split these posts off to its own thread because what you are saying scares the heck out of me. You say you know the law. Are you so certain that you are willing to ruin your families future over it? Did you learn from a martial arts teacher, a friend, an internet forum? Or did you learn from a fully qualified lawyer? Have you heard what a pathologist would say if he saw the after effects of those slices you advocate? Do you think that it might be best to know now before you end up being sold for cigs by some guy named Bubba?

You think I am overreacting? Talk to Peyton Quinn who was ambushed with his friend by three guys and ended up having to fight for months to stay out of prison and ended up spending tens of thousands of dollars to do so. He said it best that you have to survive the initial attack, the criminal case next and then the civil case the other side can bring against you before you can say that you 'won' a street fight.

Let me show you just how complicated things can get. I have an aquaintance who has a very real reason to be paranoid. He works for the goverment around some bad, insane people that are known for holding grudges and he is afraid of some of them looking him up later. He carries a Spyderco Civilian knife for this purpose. He talked to a lawyer familiar with cases of violence and was told that if he ever used the thing he could add about 100,000 dollars to his legal fees as a general rule. Mind you, if it came down to violence he is well known and regarded in the legal system and his attacker would have a history of crimes and insanity as well as being known to have dealt with my friend behind bars. Despite that going for him, he is still aware that if he ever has to use that nasty looking little knife, the trouble he would face getting clear would be a few years of his salary.

Now, what if you are not as clear cut or known as that in your case? What kind of legal troubles do you think you can get into?

I may have an advantage over you in interacting with law enforcement officers, prosecuters and proffesionals like that through friendship and family. But you can still get the information from a good source. There are sources out there than can help you keep your house and freedom after you have been attacked. But you are going to have to do a little research from vaild sources and maybe spend some money. Think of it as an investment for your family and their future. You owe it to them.

[Jonathan Randall]

Maybe we need to split these posts off to its own thread because what you are saying scares the heck out of me. You say you know the law. Are you so certain that you are willing to ruin your families future over it? Did you learn from a martial arts teacher, a friend, an internet forum? Or did you learn from a fully qualified lawyer? Have you heard what a pathologist would say if he saw the after effects of those slices you advocate? Do you think that it might be best to know now before you end up being sold for cigs by some guy named Bubba?

You think I am overreacting? Talk to Peyton Quinn who was ambushed with his friend by three guys and ended up having to fight for months to stay out of prison and ended up spending tens of thousands of dollars to do so. He said it best that you have to survive the initial attack, the criminal case next and then the civil case the other side can bring against you before you can say that you 'won' a street fight.

Let me show you just how complicated things can get. I have an aquaintance who has a very real reason to be paranoid. He works for the goverment around some bad, insane people that are known for holding grudges and he is afraid of some of them looking him up later. He carries a Spyderco Civilian knife for this purpose. He talked to a lawyer familiar with cases of violence and was told that if he ever used the thing he could add about 100,000 dollars to his legal fees as a general rule. Mind you, if it came down to violence he is well known and regarded in the legal system and his attacker would have a history of crimes and insanity as well as being known to have dealt with my friend behind bars. Despite that going for him, he is still aware that if he ever has to use that nasty looking little knife, the trouble he would face getting clear would be a few years of his salary.

Now, what if you are not as clear cut or known as that in your case? What kind of legal troubles do you think you can get into?

I may have an advantage over you in interacting with law enforcement officers, prosecuters and proffesionals like that through friendship and family. But you can still get the information from a good source. There are sources out there than can help you keep your house and freedom after you have been attacked. But you are going to have to do a little research from vaild sources and maybe spend some money. Think of it as an investment for your family and their future. You owe it to them.

New thread to discuss this VERY IMPORTANT ISSUE, while remaining on topic in this thread:

http://martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?p=541508#post541508post541508

[JenniM]

False analogy.

Driving is a daily reality for both of us. We see cars all around us. I went through a course in high school on the use of a car and the laws regarding them. I took a test on the law before they let me take the driving portion of the test. New laws are reported in the news when they happen.

Ok I take your point but if you had no desire or intention of actually driving a car for the foreseeable future would you still have taken the high school course on the use of a car and the laws regarding them? - IMHO you would not - I have absolutely no intention of using a knife- but I can't categorically say I never would if my life depended on it (and yes by that I mean my life or my family's life was about to end) - hence I equip myself with the laws of the land in relation to Self Defence (both empty handed) and Offensive Weapons the best I can (without actually seeing a lawyer!) - and as a matter of fact we have a member of the Police Constabulary coming along to our classes to talk to us about just that!!! - and YES "I AGREE" its vitally important that you are aware of the potential consequences of engaging in any sort of combat legally, morally, ethically, the enormous psychological impact of harming or taking another human being's life, the horrific mutilation/scarring that result from knife attacks.


Maybe we need to split these posts off to its own thread because what you are saying scares the heck out of me.

What exactly scares you so much? Is it that I highlighted the usage of the knife as was imparted to me during my training - was my statement incorrect? is this not what the knife is capable of? Perhaps Mr Sotis is wrong in his teachings! - perhaps you have more knowledge? - I certainly am but a beginner as far as knife fighting goes so I am willing to learn but pussyfooting around what the blade is capable of and how it can be used serves no purpose.


Have you heard what a pathologist would say if he saw the after effects of those slices you advocate?

So now I have to go see a Pathologist as well as a Lawyer??? And I'm am not advocating anything.



You think I am overreacting?

To my original post? - ABSOLUTELY!!



Talk to Peyton Quinn who was ambushed with his friend by three guys and ended up having to fight for months to stay out of prison and ended up spending tens of thousands of dollars to do so. He said it best that you have to survive the initial attack, the criminal case next and then the civil case the other side can bring against you before you can say that you 'won' a street fight.

I can believe that!


Let me show you just how complicated things can get. I have an aquaintance who has a very real reason to be paranoid. He works for the goverment around some bad, insane people that are known for holding grudges and he is afraid of some of them looking him up later. He carries a Spyderco Civilian knife for this purpose. He talked to a lawyer familiar with cases of violence and was told that if he ever used the thing he could add about 100,000 dollars to his legal fees as a general rule. Mind you, if it came down to violence he is well known and regarded in the legal system and his attacker would have a history of crimes and insanity as well as being known to have dealt with my friend behind bars. Despite that going for him, he is still aware that if he ever has to use that nasty looking little knife, the trouble he would face getting clear would be a few years of his salary.

Ouch!!


I may have an advantage over you in interacting with law enforcement officers, prosecuters and proffesionals like that through friendship and family. But you can still get the information from a good source. There are sources out there than can help you keep your house and freedom after you have been attacked. But you are going to have to do a little research from vaild sources and maybe spend some money.

Indeed you may [or not as the case may be!] I see the thread has now been moved - its an interesting one that's for sure - I think its probably time you and I gave it up.

As a matter of interest, a couple of days ago an Off duty Policewoman was fatally stabbed here in the UK as she went outside of her house to investigate a disturbance - the coroner found a single stab wound to the top of her groin (hitting the femoral artery) and she bled to death - today's news suggests that the knife that was used was from her own kitchen and one that she had taken outside with her to investigate the disturbance!! Absolutely tragic circumstances - but had she had the chance to defend herself with that knife, being an off duty Policewoman, who knows how the law would have handled that one!!

Anyway I've enjoyed our exchange, you learn from your own experience and that of others - at the very least its re-kindled my thirst for more knowledge so I guess you've had some influence!!!:asian:

[Don Roley]

I think a plastic knife touching you is good enough to know that you need to improve it to be avoided. It sounds like they are tryign to prepare you for getting cut and slashed as a sort of conditioning?

No, they are trying to make you fear the blade. People react differently on different levels when they face something they fear, and when they face something they don't. Kelly McMann on one tape talked about how they would hit the students with simunition rounds (fires from a modified weapon but is like a nasty paint gun round) in the leg. It would not break the uniform, but it hurts like you can't believe. Then they did drills with simunition on simunition encounters and the guys reactied totally differently from when they were using something theyy thought would not hurt all that bad.

Same thing here. You lose some ego when you get hit with a plastic knife and it tells you that you fouled up. But it does not put you in the same fearful mindset as you would be in if you faced a real blade.

And JenniM, I dealt with your last post at the following.http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?p=545101#post545101
Let us continue it in the appropriate location.

[mrhnau]

finally some people have come up with a training knife that simulates the real thing. basically the 'edge' is electrified so if it touches you you get shocked. the idea is to get that fear of pain into you when training that wooden or rubber knives just cant replace.

http://www.shocknife.com/index.html

theyre pretty pricey at $500 each, but if youve got the money then why not?

Just wanted to bump this. Has anyone gotten this knife yet? If so, has it been useful in training? If so, please share. I thought about this thread the other day and wanted to see if anyone new had any experience with it yet.

[Kenpojujitsu3]

Martial Arts meets cattle prod, what will they think of next?

[mrhnau]

Martial Arts meets cattle prod, what will they think of next?

I like the theory, as long as people don't start having heart attacks, or pace makers stop, or people start losing short term memory. I'm assuming they did safety studies for things like that :)

[Kreth]

I like the theory, as long as people don't start having heart attacks, or pace makers stop, or people start losing short term memory. I'm assuming they did safety studies for things like that :)
Hopefully using criminals... :p

[7starmantis]

I would be interested in playing around with one, not $500 worth of interested, but all the same :)