School & Instructor bashing

[AceHBK]

When you get perspective students come in for a visit do you bash other school sin your area as a reason for them to join yours?
Does your instructor bash other schools in front of you?

I do notice that some schools bash other schools when u go in for a visit. They will say things like, "their teacher is no good and produces poor students" "they charge too much money for what they are offering." " i am better at this art b/c I am from that country the other schools have masters who are not from that country where the art came from."

Martialtalk is a BIG forum and we all know this is a small world so I am sure there are people bashing other people schools and you may not even know it.

[michaeledward]

Trying to find an objective point of view for a question such as this is difficult. How a statement is perceived, and how it is intended can often be miles apart.

I was sitting with Mr. Planas after a recent seminar, speaking about my good fortune for ending up at a school that studies under the Parker Planas Lineage. Mr. Planas said that even in other schools, where the lineage is different, they would have their 'Roast Duck' grand master to pay homage too. I believe that is a bit self-depricating on the part of Mr. Planas.

My comment about my good fortune in my lineage could certainly be seen as 'bashing' another school that, perhaps, doesn't share such a clean lineage. Too often, students are unable to objectively determine the quality of their training.

It takes year to learn if you kenpo is any good. And then, with that much invested, it is difficult to dissociate. Don't you think?

[mantis]

yep. i went once to this nice TKD/Hapkido school to get more info and eventually join.
when he asked if i had any experience i said i am currently a student of a Kung Fu school. then he started going off about how KF sucks, and that TKD and his school specifically is the best in the area then he started telling me stories on how my KF school is copying his school!!!
i was like, nice to meet you, too!

my KF school on the other hand promotes humility. we do have students from other arts, and some are black belts in TKD, karate, or different grappling arts. but the teachers make them feel comfortable to present their previous knowledge. In fact, sometimes they try to teach us techniques from different arts/schools/styles or families within the style to open our mind to different situations.

as for the "they charge too much" comment, that comment i really like! it always leads to a good deal (at least money wise) afterwards :)

[terryl965]

Ace it is sad but it happens all the time, you know me and I never really bash other schools. I try to say how we do things this way and why and leave the other place out of the mix. Myself and school has been bashed by every single TKD school in the area and I'm still here and will be quality speaks for itself.
Terry

[rutherford]

I think everybody who has visited a few schools before choosing one to study at has run into this attitude before.

I've even chosen to train with somebody who had this attitude.

But, I think we can all agree that it's a poor way to comport oneself.

[green meanie]

So far I've only been in one school that did that and when the Instructor started doing it I stopped going there. Now that I run my own school I make a point to not behave that way. In fact, there's been times when it became obvious that what I was teaching wasn't what the student was looking for and I've encouraged them to go and check out someone else's school.

[Kacey]

I agree - I don't bash other schools; in fact, I go out of my way to make sure students from other schools know that things that are different between my class and wherever they came from are just that - different. Not better, not worse, just different. I have had other instructors bash me - mostly this one Korean who tells everyone that women can't be instructors.

[AceHBK]

So far I've only been in one school that did that and when the Instructor started doing it I stopped going there. Now that I run my own school I make a point to not behave that way. In fact, there's been times when it became obvious that what I was teaching wasn't what the student was looking for and I've encouraged them to go and check out someone else's school.

It takes a big man and a helluva good teacher to recognize that and suggest that. Most would keep collectin the tuition check and wouldnt think twice. Kudos to you.

[AceHBK]

I agree - I don't bash other schools; in fact, I go out of my way to make sure students from other schools know that things that are different between my class and wherever they came from are just that - different. Not better, not worse, just different. I have had other instructors bash me - mostly this one Korean who tells everyone that women can't be instructors.

Wow! Have you ever gotten the chance to talk to him about that? As a man I wouldnt want an instructor who thought that way.

[Rich Parsons]

When you get perspective students come in for a visit do you bash other school sin your area as a reason for them to join yours?
Does your instructor bash other schools in front of you?

I do notice that some schools bash other schools when u go in for a visit. They will say things like, "their teacher is no good and produces poor students" "they charge too much money for what they are offering." " i am better at this art b/c I am from that country the other schools have masters who are not from that country where the art came from."

Martialtalk is a BIG forum and we all know this is a small world so I am sure there are people bashing other people schools and you may not even know it.


I tell prosepctive students ehre is what you will get for this price. If you train here a while and are not happy, then let us know, and if you have an idea of what art you a re looking for we will give you an introduction.

Now, I have made comments like, I do not like this person, personally, or this person did this to a friend of mine, but you as the studnet if interested should go check them out for yourself.

[Carol]

Never heard anyone bash someone else. I do know my instructors have a little different way of teaching Kenpo than others do, but they never said that anyone else was bad or wrong.

They just say this is what other schools do, this is what we do, this is why we do it differently.

[Kacey]

Wow! Have you ever gotten the chance to talk to him about that? As a man I wouldnt want an instructor who thought that way.

I tried once... he told me it wasn't him (despite a very precise description from 3 different people). Then my class grew enough that I could start buying supplies (pads, dobaks, etc.) in bulk, and never had to send other students there to buy things. He only ever did it to adult male students - never kids, and never women... which I thought was interesting, since he has a large kids' class. He also sold one of my students the wrong pads (open fingers instead of closed) because he told her that TKD practitioners had to have a certain color, not a certain style - which was wrong for ITF TKD, on both counts. Since I no longer have to send students there to buy things, I quit worrying about it.

[green meanie]

It takes a big man and a helluva good teacher to recognize that and suggest that. Most would keep collectin the tuition check and wouldnt think twice. Kudos to you.

Thanks. Truth is, I'm not a big man... not even sure I'm a good man. But I try to be an honest man and to be perfectly honest I do what I do for my sake as much as theirs... because anyone who's in my school who REALLY doesn't want to be there isn't just wasting their time... they're wasting MINE. I just try to do everyone a favor -starting with me.

[Brandon Fisher]

Yes my old instructor did thats one reason I am no longer with him.

[Eternal Beginner]

That is horrible! I have trained with people who bashed other styles and that was bad enough but to single out particular schools (caveat...some are criminal and immoral and should be bashed) because you don't like what or how they teach is very immature.

I have heard of one instructor putting on a forum untruths about another grappling school, that they only train gi when they infact do both gi and no gi, but I think that was more out of ignorance than malice. Usually the ones quick to bash other schools have little to zero experience outside of their own little domains.

[Jonathan]

Well, this wasn't school or instructor bashing, per se... but my brother-in-law's godmother was a karate instructor (I'm not sure what particular style) in Ohio. We were discussing what we learned in our particular classes; I showed her the stance we used in our kickboxing class, and she laughed it off, saying it was useless- there'd be no punch power, etc.

I'm sitting there, listening to her go on, and I wasn't sure if I should be offended, or start lighting into what I thought the deficiencies of her own style are.

I opted not to 'talk shop' with her anymore. A teacher who scoffs at another's art is not one from whom I care to learn.

[still learning]

Hello, Instructors are suppose to be mature and grown-up. If they do bash other schools and so....you have to question their maturity.

As they say..."If you can't say something nice! ..don't say anything!"

Each school has something different to offer....each person..has their own thinking of what they want to learn.

Every school should mention only what they can offer...this is the best way. NOT talk bad about the next schools.

It is very easy to talk bad about other people...it take alot effort to say nice things....!

Just like work..it is easy to be lazy..it takes alot effort to keep working.

The best things in life come to those who work hard...especially in the martial arts.....true? just look around...you can tell..? who trains the hardest.......Aloha

[Lisa]

Bashing of a school, instructor, art form is a sad but true aspect of the Martial Arts world and should basically chalked up to immaturity of the person doing it. It comes in many forms, we see it here on this forum every day from students to teachers to you name it, we see it.

Chalk it up to unless you were there and know the whole story, don't believe it, check it out for yourself.

[Eternal Beginner]

I have one sensei (who is probably the most mature and respected martial artist that I know of) who actually goes too far in the other direction. Even when he knows about "questionable" instructors or schools he just pretends he didn't hear the question or doesn't know of the person.

The funniest, and very out of character, thing he ever did was at our karate tournament last weekend he had actually cut the head of a former blackbelt of the club out of a club photo because he felt he had so dishonoured the club. So here is this lovely display of past tournaments and group photos with a perfect little square cut out where the instructors head used to be.

[bushidomartialarts]

i don't bash other schools and won't tolerate it among my students. in fact, during sales calls if the prospective student is calling around, i recommend two other schools in the area run by men i like and respect.

on the other hand, there is a school in my area i've heard a lot of bad things about and had bad conversations with in the past. if somebody reads between the lines, they may notice that it's the only one i don't sing the praises of....but that's as close as i get.

[MJS]

This is something that happens all the time. Personally, I do my best to refrain from bashing another school. IMHO, if the potential new student took the time to check your school out, I'd think that it would be good to give them a positive impression.

Mike

[shesulsa]

The funniest, and very out of character, thing he ever did was at our karate tournament last weekend he had actually cut the head of a former blackbelt of the club out of a club photo because he felt he had so dishonoured the club. So here is this lovely display of past tournaments and group photos with a perfect little square cut out where the instructors head used to be.

*snicker* Wow.

[green meanie]

The funniest, and very out of character, thing he ever did was at our karate tournament last weekend he had actually cut the head of a former blackbelt of the club out of a club photo because he felt he had so dishonoured the club. So here is this lovely display of past tournaments and group photos with a perfect little square cut out where the instructors head used to be.

LOL! One of my Instructor's did that too! He has a group picture of his students that he promoted several years ago. In the front were the kids who had received their promotions that day and in the back were the students that were promoted to black belt. One of the students who had been promoted to black belt, caused a bit of a stir immediately following his promotion to black belt and stopped training soon after. The picture still hangs in my Instructors dojo but if you look close you'll notice that someone has been inked out with a black magic marker. :rofl:

[Eternal Beginner]

LOL! One of my Instructor's did that too! He has a group picture of his students that he promoted several years ago. In the front were the kids who had received their promotions that day and in the back were the students that were promoted to black belt. One of the students who had been promoted to black belt, caused a bit of a stir immediately following his promotion to black belt and stopped training soon after. The picture still hangs in my Instructors dojo but if you look close you'll notice that someone has been inked out with a black magic marker. :rofl:

So I guess this isn't so unusual. I guess from the bb's point of view, they put a lot into each student they promote to bb so it must hurt a lot when things don't work out and the student turns against them.

[Miles]

I don't bash other instructors-it just is bad manners. Kind of like what Mom always said, "If you can't say anything nice, don't say anything."

I may disagree with their practices, but I can only control myself and my education. Better to extend your own line than to try to cut someone else down.

Miles

[green meanie]

So I guess this isn't so unusual. I guess from the bb's point of view, they put a lot into each student they promote to bb so it must hurt a lot when things don't work out and the student turns against them.

No doubt. Fortunately, I haven't had this happen to me yet.

[green meanie]

I don't bash other instructors-it just is bad manners. Kind of like what Mom always said, "If you can't say anything nice, don't say anything."

I may disagree with their practices, but I can only control myself and my education. Better to extend your own line than to try to cut someone else down.

Miles

Exactly. Frauds, however, are another matter... I don't mince words when I know someone is making false claims.

[shesulsa]

I'm rather amazed. I would think of blacking out a person's face or cutting it out of a photograph as juvenile. We all go through hurt and pain and have problems with each other, but ... well I guess there's the grown-up way to handle it and the not-so-grown up way to handle it. Not trying to bash here, though.

[green meanie]

I'm rather amazed. I would think of blacking out a person's face or cutting it out of a photograph as juvenile. We all go through hurt and pain and have problems with each other, but ... well I guess there's the grown-up way to handle it and the not-so-grown up way to handle it. Not trying to bash here, though.

No, you're right and I understand. It made me laugh when I saw it the first time and not it's become one of the novelties of the school. I don't know how I would react in that situation and so far I haven't had to find out. I hope it stays that way.

[shesulsa]

I had a falling out with a black belt while I was still a color belt; she and I had been great friends in and out of the dojang. I have pictures of her with my family and my children, but I haven't done anything with them - they're not framed and hung, nor are they destroyed, cut up or blackened.

We never speak now and likely won't much in the future outside of basic niceties to appease those around us. But we don't stalk each other, we don't crank-call each other, I don't drive by her house wondering what might have been or to check up on her or make her nervous and to the best of my knowledge, neither does she. We have quite simply and very efficiently gone our separate ways. I'm certain she's just as happy about that as I am.

:asian:

[Grenadier]

Courtesy is one of the most important things when it comes to the martial arts. Even if I don't agree with a certain style's training methods, or even if I don't like a particular instructor from another school, each of the above does have its merits, for the most part.

I won't bash another style, their schools, or the instructors (with a couple of exceptions, such as everyone's favorite neo-ninja with the initials of
A.K."). If people want to train in the other schools' methods, and if they don't like what I teach, then that's their right to simply leave, and go train elsewhere.

The way I see it, different styles, different instructors, and different schools, all have something to offer. If they can offer something that is good for the students, then it's not my place to bash them. As long as the other schools conduct themselves in a decent manner, and don't interfere with our operations, then I'll simply have a healthy respect for them.

Now, the question remains, do I have disdain for other schools? Of course. There are many schools that I do not like. Either their instructors are nothing more than glorified thugs, their instruction is sub-par, etc., but I honestly believe that it's up to the prospective student to figure that out for themselves. Maybe that's what they want, or maybe not, but again, it's not my business to spread rumors.

All I can do is teach what I teach, and if people like what they're learning, they'll stick around. Plain and simple.

[Robert Lee]

While its not right to bash other schools. I have had to not recomend certion schools in the past As to knowing more personal information about the instructor. So you have to not recomend a school at times when its the best interest of the M/A reputation to do so. As I will send people to different schools if they are looking for that type of training. or that type of training would be the type that they would better benfit. But for the most part All schools have something to offer And an instructor should not resort in bad mouthing them. But also know when not to recomend then at the same time. And just a small number fall in that area.

[Monkeyfist]

I've trained for 13 years and during that time have been to quite a few schools. Two situations that come to mind were a MMA school in which the instructor bashed another MMA school that I trained at (even though the teacher at the bashed school was more well known). I was disappointed to find this going on at a kenpo school that I went to visit, too. The instructor there was talking trash about a school across town, saying that they didn't teach "real" american kenpo and that the instructor's lineage can't be verified. It left a sour taste in my mouth and I never went back to that school, despite the qualification of the teacher.