The Quick Boxing Jab as Set-Up for Self-defence Techniques

[Jonathan Randall]

The Quick Boxing Jab as Set-Up for Self-defence Techniques. What do you think of the idea? Imagine that you are in a crowded area and you cannot escape before a confrontation turns physical. The jab, well done, is a very quick, un-telegraphed technique. Would it buy you time (as a distractor) for a more powerful follow-up technique - or, in some cases, be all you need to buy that split-second to escape? Thoughts? Objections? Additions?

[green meanie]

I like the jab. I don't see any reason not to use it. I don't know if I would try to use it as a means to escape but I would definately use it to set up a more powerful follow up.

[Hand Sword]

I like it, and have used it many times, and in that situation. It does buy time, as well as set you up to really hammer 'em! Plus, they never see it coming! Perfect!

[MartialIntent]

Agree with all, the simple jab is overlooked by a lot of us in favor of the more flamboyant strikes, kicks or takedowns.

It's fast, it's instinctive and it's right there at close and close-to-medium ranges. A bread-and-butter jab to nose or chin is a great attention getter and I fully believe the jab is not only a distraction tool, it's valuable in its own right - in less severe situations it's often enough to foreclose on the altercation or at least determine if your opponent is posturing and in the most unfriendly situations mentioned, the good ol' jab is one of the best hit-and-run strikes there is imHo.

Of course there are a hundred variants: open palm [palm up] to throat; executed as a palm-strike or even as a one-knuckle to temple but I'd always say the jab is your friend - it's quite simply the perfect "conversation opener".

Respects!

[IcemanSK]

The Quick Boxing Jab as Set-Up for Self-defence Techniques. What do you think of the idea? Imagine that you are in a crowded area and you cannot escape before a confrontation turns physical. The jab, well done, is a very quick, un-telegraphed technique. Would it buy you time (as a distractor) for a more powerful follow-up technique - or, in some cases, be all you need to buy that split-second to escape? Thoughts? Objections? Additions?

A jab is good to set up another technique. I'm not too sure about escaping, tho. If done correctly, its done to give your opponent something to think about while you follow-up. Its rarely the type of blow that would prevent you from being chased. (Unless you're George Foreman:) ). In a street fight, its a committment punch. By that I mean, "if you throw & land a jab, you'd better follow it up with something harder quickly."

[Jonathan Randall]

A jab is good to set up another technique. I'm not too sure about escaping, tho. If done correctly, its done to give your opponent something to think about while you follow-up. Its rarely the type of blow that would prevent you from being chased. (Unless you're George Foreman:) ). In a street fight, its a committment punch. By that I mean, "if you throw & land a jab, you'd better follow it up with something harder quickly."

You're right - particlarly about it being a committment punch. Sorta like getting a bear's attention with a shot to the leg - you'd better follow up with a high-caliber shot to end the confrontation or the now enraged bear will kill you.

I should have spelled out the escape scenario better. I was thinking particularly of a Starbucks I go to where a man in line came close to starting a confrontation with me. I believe that, given the large crowd and number of tables to put between him and myself and the exit close to me, I could have used it to simply escape. Perhaps not, but I would have tried. Also, it would not have shown "Martial Arts Skill" with the long term possible consequences of that - simply that the little guy threw a quick punch that nailed the aggressor. If it had failed, the low sidekick would have come out...

[BlackSheep]

I don't know if I would try to use it as a means to escape

I'm not too sure about escaping, tho.
A jab is a good punch to keep someone off of you while you maneuver to an exit.


The jab is my range finder; once I’ve ranged the target I drop the bombs, crosses and hooks.

[Cujo]

Jabs are great. Its fast, it obstructs your opponents vision, is great for establishing range and just begs to followed up with a more powerfull technique.
Pax
Cujo

[Martial Tucker]

A jab is my preferred set-up for a spinning back kick. It's a high probability
"game-ender" combination. I also like to follow a jab with a spinning back-fist, but I like the afore-mentioned kick better because after the jab your assailant's hands will always be up.

I real close quarters, like in a crowd where you can't just send someone flying across the room, I like a jab followed by a heavy, downward punch to the hip bone of the assailant's front leg, dropping my full weight into the punch. They never expect that. Guaranteed to ruin someone's day.....

[Jonathan Randall]

Since we have had a number of new members with some boxing/mma background join since I started this thread, I'd like to revive it for their input.

[Cruentus]

The Quick Boxing Jab as Set-Up for Self-defence Techniques.

I would say that your Jab is a self-defense technique, period. Yes, it could be used to set up other moves, but it should be a valid trauma inducing technique in and of itself.

Many people think of the jab as their distraction or set up tool for other more powerful strikes. So, they don't train to induce a lot of damage with the jab.

I think that this is a mistake. In a fight, you don't have time to throw a strike that doesn't induce much trauma. If you waste your time throwing a "jab" as your sissy strike to try to set up something else, especially something more elaborate like a spinning technique that someone mentioned, then I am afraid that you'll find your ass flattened before you get to technique #2.

Your jab should rattle the guys head. Every strike you throw should have a damaging effect. You should be able to develop power from any strike, whether it be a jab, tight hook from the clinch or ground, or whatever. You can do this without sacrificing speed.

In a self-defense encounter, no strike that connects should be purely for setup purposes; they all should cause damage if possible.

Paul

[Robert Lee]

You have flicking jabs less power good sting . Straight jab stiffer more power, a pressing type jab that sticks to setup the next punch easyer. Aim any of these at the nose it allows for a folow up in a crowd no room wouldnt short inside punches pack more power and end it faster. But in any fight a person does first what they do. A jab can start. If modified like a lead it can pack good power that can put a person down. Thats hip action behind the strike.

[Ken Pfrenger]

Howdie folks....i am big into WMA with boxing really being one of my core arts...infact it is a the base that much of my work is built around.

Rather than a quick jab I prefer Dempsey's logic on using what he called a jolt instead. We work on this extensively at my club...as long as there is room for the drop step, it will get used by me.

[Carol]

My teacher teaches jabs saying they are bee stings, distractions.

There are many cases where a distraction can be put to good use :D

[lonecoyote]

I'm with Paul. Why use it to set up anything. Not used as a range finder, a stinger but a good hard strong jab w/bad intent used w/a quick step for extra power can be a fight ender, or break that nose, Throw a jab, Then throw another jab. If you want to know about the jab, just tune into friday night fights on ESPN or whatever. The guys who use it to find range or get lazy w/it can get into trouble real quick when they leave it out there and BAM the overhand right comes over it. The flickers are simply scoring points and you can see the moment that their opponents realize that they aren't going to hurt by the jab and they can just wade in dropping bombs at will. That's pretty ugly too. But a fighter who has truly mastered the fighting hard jab, like a hard insistent drumbeat, that controls range, causes confusion and pain will just flat break his opponent, break his will, break his spirit, and break his face. The jab is a foundational punch. I saw a fight a long time ago, maybe Roger Mayweather, he broke his right hand in the first round, fought an eight round fight against a tough younger opponent using only his jab, by the end of the fight the kids face looked like a squished tomato. I believe in the jab.

[monkey]

I agree with it being quick-easy to deploy-& has many aspectso f use like flick & commited.Note the Silat & Kali players have the elbow destruct that destroys the jab.Breaking the fingers & leaves no recovery.Thai boxing has a simual motion.If you are in a situation that no one know the counter por counter as we say in phlilppino.Then by all means Jab.If it was nontelegraphic (no philippino would have the counter.)Note the Phillipino art was around & alive befor John L. Sullivan who boxed with palms up not down as we do now.Also the philippinos were bobbing & weaving befor Sullivan.Note Lapu Lapu vs El Cortez.

[lonecoyote]

Okay monkey I'm glad you're here because I'd like to know about Silat or FMA destructions against western boxing. I gotta ask, have you ever faced a good boxer, with good footwork, and who knows how and when and where to use a real quick jab and destroyed it with an elbow? I'm not saying you haven't or that it isn't possible, just want to know how good it would work and when to try it. What about a counterpuncher, or someone who throws hard combinations, punches in bunches, can you catch all of them? Are western boxers open in certain situations to Silat, or FMA limb or hand destroying? How good is that kind of empty hand FMA vs. boxing. Anybody can join in and I think this could be a lively discussion.

[monkey]

those same questions arose to Gishin Funakoshi.Were He showed on film ( the boxer has jab-cross-hook-back fist & upper cut.The karate practioner had jab-cross-hook-upper cut with hands & elbow & verious kick.Now to put this in perspective Yes i have do this .True boxers can feed fast and mulit hits.But first out or first round From Ali - Forman-Clay- I have not seen multi but a few to get the feel.That is were the silat or kali player can gunt with fore knuck to bicept & this will couse the arm to (as we say it -go to sleep)No the silat player with a vertical or horizontal elbow to the fist & breaks the hand with a down word tiger paw type of hit.This can be seen by Paul Vunak-Inosanto-Leo Gaji-Pedoy line -Conyetes call it ponomyet.There are many who do it & show its easy to learn & deploy.I will not put down a boxer as they do have great power-speed ect.But why do they go 10 rounds or more.This tells me the power from the punches are grounded & they can with stand it.Im not saying its not street effective.ZIve seen it deployed & I deploy it,I simply state throw coution to thought befor throw to attacker.It may save your limb.

[Cruentus]

I'm with Paul. Why use it to set up anything. Not used as a range finder, a stinger but a good hard strong jab w/bad intent used w/a quick step for extra power can be a fight ender, or break that nose, Throw a jab, Then throw another jab. If you want to know about the jab, just tune into friday night fights on ESPN or whatever. The guys who use it to find range or get lazy w/it can get into trouble real quick when they leave it out there and BAM the overhand right comes over it. The flickers are simply scoring points and you can see the moment that their opponents realize that they aren't going to hurt by the jab and they can just wade in dropping bombs at will. That's pretty ugly too. But a fighter who has truly mastered the fighting hard jab, like a hard insistent drumbeat, that controls range, causes confusion and pain will just flat break his opponent, break his will, break his spirit, and break his face. The jab is a foundational punch. I saw a fight a long time ago, maybe Roger Mayweather, he broke his right hand in the first round, fought an eight round fight against a tough younger opponent using only his jab, by the end of the fight the kids face looked like a squished tomato. I believe in the jab.

Awesome post with good examples. Liked the Mayweather reference; not sure it was him either but I believe I saw the same fight.

I wanted to reinerate the important point brought up above by "lonecoyote" about scoring in boxing and how it relates to street practicality.

A lot of boxers keep the left hand "busy" (as I was told when I was boxing/kickboxing). A big reason for this has to do with scoring as well as set ups and such; about the easiest strike to connect with is the jab, and by connecting with the jab more, you score points even if it isn't a damaging jab. Such actions could lead you to a win if no one is knocked out.

On the street, though, there is no points to score, and there is no 12 rounds to fight. You have (most likely) less than a 60 second fight on your hands that could determine the quality of the rest of your life if you make it, and the outcome of that fight will most likely be determined in the 1st 10 seconds of the encounter.

The moral of the story is: You just don't have the time to not create trauma in a life-threatening circumstance.

Paul Janulis

[Cruentus]

I gotta ask, have you ever faced a good boxer, with good footwork, and who knows how and when and where to use a real quick jab and destroyed it with an elbow?

And the reply...


Monkey:
those same questions arose to Gishin Funakoshi.Were He showed on film ( the boxer has jab-cross-hook-back fist & upper cut.The karate practioner had jab-cross-hook-upper cut with hands & elbow & verious kick.Now to put this in perspective Yes i have do this .True boxers can feed fast and mulit hits.But first out or first round From Ali - Forman-Clay- I have not seen multi but a few to get the feel.That is were the silat or kali player can gunt with fore knuck to bicept & this will couse the arm to (as we say it -go to sleep)No the silat player with a vertical or horizontal elbow to the fist & breaks the hand with a down word tiger paw type of hit.This can be seen by Paul Vunak-Inosanto-Leo Gaji-Pedoy line -Conyetes call it ponomyet.There are many who do it & show its easy to learn & deploy.I will not put down a boxer as they do have great power-speed ect.But why do they go 10 rounds or more.This tells me the power from the punches are grounded & they can with stand it.Im not saying its not street effective.ZIve seen it deployed & I deploy it,I simply state throw coution to thought befor throw to attacker.It may save your limb.


So...I will take that as a "no".

[monkey]

I stated yes I have done this,In JKD were are incuraged to go to boxing rings & learn it & how its used as well as faults.Jeet kune do was made for 2 resongns.! to unite the arts into 1 way & not be all politiacle or who is best whith what trophy or rank.Peolpe like Lew Delgotto never wanted to know anything of the person he was to fight,hence free of here say or reputaions.Like I said boxing started in the ring.Some was embedded to JKD.Gunting is the philippino art as well as destructions.You cant deploy it like jabs.But it can be deployed,Yes I have & still do it.I dont make a habbit of it.It is not a 100% deployable.Hence other means to get there.If I eye jab the boxer-This gives me entry to deploy a destruction.Maybe a kick to the knee will provide the entry.Each wepon has its place & time.

[Cruentus]

I stated yes I have done this,In JKD were are incuraged to go to boxing rings & learn it & how its used as well as faults.

Sure ya did.

[monkey]

I thought this forum was set up for the arts & to ask & call a lier even befor you ask shows you dont know of me-the arts or other than to set up as such.Mr hubbard has footage of me doing such at full speed & teatraing it.Sad you want to waist skills calling people liers or tring to set them up to make them look bad.You know not of all my teachers or skills.your not in the place to promote the arts when you do such as this.I told of several people as well as I who have & how to deploy.Yopu saw 1 thing only your veiws & nothing will tell you other.This is not an art i teach or talk of.Others have seen what i can do like Robber Lee on this sight.I dont try to degrade you but time for time you sought me out for such,Why-you know not of me of my skills?I dont say or try to set you up.Please stop this on me.Others who do the arts will read that the ways I told how to deploy are sound & can be done.

[Cruentus]

I thought this forum was set up for the arts & to ask & call a lier even befor you ask shows you dont know of me-the arts or other than to set up as such.Mr hubbard has footage of me doing such at full speed & teatraing it.Sad you want to waist skills calling people liers or tring to set them up to make them look bad.You know not of all my teachers or skills.your not in the place to promote the arts when you do such as this.I told of several people as well as I who have & how to deploy.Yopu saw 1 thing only your veiws & nothing will tell you other.This is not an art i teach or talk of.Others have seen what i can do like Robber Lee on this sight.I dont try to degrade you but time for time you sought me out for such,Why-you know not of me of my skills?I dont say or try to set you up.Please stop this on me.Others who do the arts will read that the ways I told how to deploy are sound & can be done.

OK.

[matt.m]

I am all about the jab. I do not disagree, in fact the grandmaster I train under says that either a jab or quick back fist is a very effective set up.

[monkey]

Sound great set ups.Have you tried useing some of the philosophys of Bruce Lee like P/I/A or A/B/C or H/I/A or A/B/D or I/P/A.These may help to deploy the jab & croos so it is a more formatable wepon.It also may be you do it already & just not in the terms as stated.We each reach the point the same.

[lonecoyote]

Great posts and a great thread. Monkey, I see some of your points and can understand where you're coming from. I believe the lazy, and flicker jabs could be gunted or destroyed, and right on pressure testing. I also appreciate that setting up a boxer with the techniques you mentioned eye jab and low kick could make it more deployable. I think Paul and I are just disagreeing with some folks on the basis that the jab is not the setup, the jab can be the finish! People can be knocked out with the jab, made to quit with the jab. But only if you stop thinking set up. I throw combinations anyway and usually start with a jab, but some fights are about the first and last punch being the same one, or about controlling range with power and pain. You can't knock someone out or make em quit with a range finder jab or a flicker or a set up. My jab is intended to hurt, bad. The reason boxing matches go long is because they are in against other boxers. Don't make a mistake in thinking because a fight goes a couple of rounds "I could do that, why doesn't he knock him out?" Against a pro jab I and maybe you, and quite a few folks would be toast with just one or two. Thanks to everyone. Great stuff.

[Jonathan Randall]

Great posts and a great thread. Monkey, I see some of your points and can understand where you're coming from. I believe the lazy, and flicker jabs could be gunted or destroyed, and right on pressure testing. I also appreciate that setting up a boxer with the techniques you mentioned eye jab and low kick could make it more deployable. I think Paul and I are just disagreeing with some folks on the basis that the jab is not the setup, the jab can be the finish! People can be knocked out with the jab, made to quit with the jab. But only if you stop thinking set up. I throw combinations anyway and usually start with a jab, but some fights are about the first and last punch being the same one, or about controlling range with power and pain. You can't knock someone out or make em quit with a range finder jab or a flicker or a set up. My jab is intended to hurt, bad. The reason boxing matches go long is because they are in against other boxers. Don't make a mistake in thinking because a fight goes a couple of rounds "I could do that, why doesn't he knock him out?" Against a pro jab I and maybe you, and quite a few folks would be toast with just one or two. Thanks to everyone. Great stuff.

I agree on all points. The destruction, similiar to what Monkey describes, that I learned would be very difficult, if not impossible, IMO, to make work against a pro-boxer. That doesn't discount its effectiveness at all, however, because how many pro-boxers do you face in the street each day? Truth is, the average puncher MAY be made to quit after breaking his fingers on your elbow.

Good points, both Paul and Lonecoyote and others, on the idea of the jab potentially being a fight ender. Gives me something to really work on. Thanks.

[monkey]

Its threds like these that show good repore & wuwei or martial minds to colaborate.This is what is fun in the arts.Dont ever loose sight or fall prey to being a national inquire.They only look for how to defame.The arts should unite & train & enjoy the aspects each has to offer.Some pro & some may be con.Hence self exsploring.This is what truely defines us.How can I as a martail artist best use it.Thanks its fun.Love the chat.

[Edmund BlackAdder]

I thought this forum was set up for the arts & to ask & call a lier even befor you ask shows you dont know of me-the arts or other than to set up as such.Mr hubbard has footage of me doing such at full speed & teatraing it.Sad you want to waist skills calling people liers or tring to set them up to make them look bad.You know not of all my teachers or skills.your not in the place to promote the arts when you do such as this.I told of several people as well as I who have & how to deploy.Yopu saw 1 thing only your veiws & nothing will tell you other.This is not an art i teach or talk of.Others have seen what i can do like Robber Lee on this sight.I dont try to degrade you but time for time you sought me out for such,Why-you know not of me of my skills?I dont say or try to set you up.Please stop this on me.Others who do the arts will read that the ways I told how to deploy are sound & can be done.
Anyone got the latest "Monkey Speak Patch" for their Universal Translator?
Mines just rendering this as gibberish.

[monkey]

Yet another who is set to constently bash or talk bad of.Sad yet the others read clear.You dont want to see any thing but bad.I did down load all your coomets from 1st time,& considering on passing them to Web master.If you took the time to read .Youd see clearly whats said,You just copy-dont read any & bash.Sad not good martial skills.

[Ken Pfrenger]

Lapu Lapu and Cortez?

I did FMA for a long time....destructions are not easy. Good luck making them work when you need them.

Personally I say throw the jab not as an annoying bee sting, knock your foe down with it. your hand is already out there, the danger is no greater if you throw a solid punch or a flicker.

[monkey]

Good point.The hand is there.If you have to take it-make it the best you have.A flick is usely the ones you have the chance to do some type of counter.The jab harder to counter but,not imposable.If you train with stick at all.The tip of the stick moves much faster then the hand.Yet we train to defend against it.Grandmaster Remy has done so many times.Now a slower hand comes in.Now how many time has Grandmaster shown people arm bars.These emtpy hand skills are from his line. Not mine.Tapi Tapi or the figure 8 was some of those used.

[Hand Sword]

A jab should be thrown out at 100 mph, and returned back to the original position at 200 mph. Your hips should swing like a gate, and the jab sould be hard. Anything else is a waste of time, and slower, or not destructive enough, where a counter to it is easier. If you can hit--Hit hard and fast!

[Jonathan Randall]

Let's please keep this discussion civil and about the jab and not each other's reading comprehension and "martial skills". Thanks.

[monkey]

Great discription,My teacher always talked of gates & axes points.Most jabs even with foot work lack the gate useage or the orbit back.Hence a poor but counterable jab.Ive seen a lot of heymakers that are easy to counter.Any thoughts on the Haymaker.I feel its too wide for a skilled fighter.It is easy fo see coming & counters are wide for what you feel is adiquit.

[Hand Sword]

I would agree. It reminds me of the drunk's that wind up one big punch and swing. Easy to counter, or avoid, and leaves the swinger off balance.

[monkey]

For the front jab -in the shaolin temple we had what we called the liquid fist as it penitrates threw the gates.The anvil fist(much like a mouse trap-the hand gets its spring from the other hand)The ghost fist was a short range much like the hook.the crazy fist is what we called the haymaker type.It was wide-& youve got to be crazy to use it against a skilled boxer.

[Cruentus]

I would agree. It reminds me of the drunk's that wind up one big punch and swing. Easy to counter, or avoid, and leaves the swinger off balance.

Kind of like when some people post, it reads like drunks typing. So easy to counter that it could lead to disciplinary action by the staff, do it's best too avoid. ;)

Anyways, good points everyone.

[lonecoyote]

Ken Pfrenger, could you please expound on Dempseys concept of the Jolt? You mentioned a drop step, is that like forward to carry momentum forward into the jab? Thats exactly how I throw it. I know Jack Dempsey wrote a couple of books and had some different ideas on punching and boxing, if you could elaborate that would be really cool.

[monkey]

Look my demos up & yes i demo elbow against jab from the kuntao.Im not saying the student Im training is a pro boxer- but this will give some insight of how it can be done.Go to the quick link post page 4 I beleave its on now.Look up monkey & see my demos.Enjoy.

[Cruentus]

Ken Pfrenger, could you please expound on Dempseys concept of the Jolt? You mentioned a drop step, is that like forward to carry momentum forward into the jab? Thats exactly how I throw it. I know Jack Dempsey wrote a couple of books and had some different ideas on punching and boxing, if you could elaborate that would be really cool.

I would like to here what Mr. Pfrenger has to say on the matter as well. If I am not mistaken, he has some instructional material breaking down the manual, no?

Paul

[Ken Pfrenger]

Never one to pass up a chance on talking about Dempsey or the jolt:)

There is a dvd of me going through my Dempsey notes with a student...very rough quality shot in a garage...and it really looks like a garage. It was never meant to be anything but a private lesson but somehow I agreed to let it be sold. if anyone is interested let me know and i will send you the contact address for a copy. I think it runs $18.

Anyhow....yes lonecoyote, a drop step is performed pretty much the way you describe. A quick and dirty run down:

Lead toe pointing at opponent while standing with your rear heel up a bit. He also called this a trigger step. The raised heel acting as a trigger to propel you forward as you fall. The punch is copmpleted with three almost simulaneous actions:
Step
Relay
Explode

Step:

lift your front foot slightly and move it forward, letting your weight drip six inches or so, while your back trigger propels you forward.

Relay:

Your lead arm shoots forward with a vertical fist alignment. The powerline for this punch runs through the underside of your arm and out your pinky knuckle. Pinky knuckle is too weak to take all so aim with ring finger knuckle and land with middle, ring and pijnky knuckle. Index knuckle is left out of the picture(though it may land depending on the contour of the target)

Explode:

At the very last instant the fist is convulsively clenched, tightening the hand and arm an instant beofre impact.

That is it in a nutshell...of course this is not the easiest way to get a point across and there is a good chance that I am leaving something major out. If interested I do have a pdf of Dempseys manual and can mail it out to anyone who is interested. It is under 4 mb. It is written in a very informal clear manner so there is no problem understanding it.

A word on Dempsey...he wrote to martial manuals, His Championship Boxing and "How to Fight Tough" Two very different manuals. The latter was a training manual he wrote witht he help of wrestler/jj man, Bernard Cosneck.

Although his boxing is a bit different fromt he era he wrote it(1950's) and definitely different from the modern method, it really was not anything new or inovative. Dempsey learned to box in an era when the memory of bareknuckles was still fresh in the minds of those he learned from....I always like to call him the last of the bareknucklers. He goes into his training a bit in the book.

Sorry I got so wordy....like I said I rarely will pass up a chance to talk Dempsey:)

[monkey]

If you want to see some fast hands-go to search type monkey.See some of my 2004-6 semiar footage & more.

[Robert Lee]

You know talking power. Over the years I have noticed several in fact many times When a new student starts training There power punch does not have any more power then a good stiff straight jab. In a short time they do improve on power. BUt the point is these people are straight off the streets and thought they had power in there punches. A jab can slow or adjust the other persons reaction. Whwere you can go to follow up. On the streets You do not know that person. His best punch well it may hurt or it may not hurt so much. The folow up rapid fire motion of the fight that is different. A jab is a good tool to train. even JKD has a jab. BUt the JKD lead which is thrown like the JKD jab but much more emotion in it. It has good power its just an adjust jab that has basicly the same speed but packs more hip bring more power. A jab can come into play any time. How hard you throw depends on the jab type then modified motion creaters more power yet. And far as boxing goes most any good boxer even a fare boxer can go hands with most any M/A person and do well on the streets. As for 1 legs are easy to get inside of useing the hands. And on the street the boxer gets to use Dirty boxing tactics to. Just try getting in the ring with a skilled boxer and you see a little more respect for there skill. Sreet fights well you have to just do as you do. And I would defently use a good jab. And the other hands as was needed. Aim that jab at the nose watch it break watch those eye water up. It gives you an extended moment to hit agin.

[Cruentus]

Thanks for that, Ken. I am always interested in reading different takes on old pugalism manuals; and Dempsey is my favorite. He was a fighter both in the ring as well as outside of it. Nice Job!

I am sending you a PM, btw.

:)

Paul

[Touch Of Death]

Aren't the first two moves in all Kenpo techs jabs?

[Cruentus]

Aren't the first two moves in all Kenpo techs jabs?

Don't know....I don't do kenpo. :)

[Jonathan Randall]

Aren't the first two moves in all Kenpo techs jabs?

No, at least not in the Kenpo I studied. Sorry.