Choosing a dojo

[Amanda Sedai]

Seeing the "someone should..." thread made me think: it would be nice if someone wrote a list of traits that make a school a McDojo versus a "real" dojo so newbies like me know what to look for and avoid in a school.

The dojo I'm considering going to has a two-year black belt program. Is this good, bad, or normal? This isn't one of those McDojo deals where you're garanteed a belt after two years; you still have to earn it through testing. It sounds like it's somewhat common there for students to take lessons for more than two years before earning the black belt. But what I was wondering about is if it is normal to have to sign up for two years' worth of lessons? Do most schools do that? (They also offer a 6-month beginners' program, but if you want to continue after that you have to go into the 2-year program.)

Also, when choosing a martial art how important do you consider the popularity of the art to be? This dojo is considered Okinawa kenpo karate kobudo. I think this type of martial art is cool. (the black belts train with Okinawan weapons, which I would really like to learn how to do, but the basics are karate, which I think is more important than weapons from a self-defense point of view. Also, I'm interested in the history and culture of Japan and Okinawa, so I think this would interest me more than, say, a Korean or Chinese art.) However, it doesn't seem to be nearly as popular as some other types of martial arts (like EPAK or TKD). I'm in college right now and in a few years I'll probably get a job in another state. If there's no Okinawan Kenpo school near where I live, will I have to start over completely at something different? (It seems kind of pointless to spend all this time and money on something just to have to spend more time and money on something different.) On the other hand, this is the only dojo that I know of near where I live right now, so if I want to do martial arts now I may not have a choice.

Well, any suggestions? :asian:

[GouRonin]

I think that belts are relative to the school you are in. While it may take 2 years to attain black belt status in your school the moment you step out into a seminar or another school it becomes nothing really. Belts are pretty much valid only from the school they come from.

Some arts also have different time lines for their ranking so to compare a 2 year black belt in TKD to a 10 year black in Judo makes it harder to give advice on how to chose a school based on how long it might take one to get to black.

This doesn't even take into account the differences in the styles. So overall I don't think that you can compare styles or schools based on belt levels and time frames.

I think it would be best to judge a school based on other criteria such as, Do you like it there? What are the people like? What are you looking for in a school? Does it fufill this critera? Not all arts are for all people so if you want to study something it had best give you what you want.

Make a list of all the pros and cons of the school and the art and then based on that list and the things you want to do, make your decision.

Good luck and remember, at least doing something is better than sitting home on the couch.

[Master of Blades]

Its not really the dojo you should be looking into. Its really the teacher you want to find out about. Find out who he/she is and who taught them, how long they have done it etc. Cuz no matter what kind of programm the school has or whatever, you wont get anywhere without a good teacher! Least thats what I been told.......:asian:

[KennethKu]

There is another thread with the same topic , listed in TKD

http://www.martialtalk.com/showthread.php?postid=31273#post31273

[hand2handCombat]

ive never been to a mcdojo, how can u identify one?

[GouRonin]

Originally posted by hand2handCombat
ive never been to a mcdojo, how can u identify one?

Probably with the fries that you get with your belt gradings.
:rolleyes:

[Kirk]

A lot of them guarantee b.b.'s in a specific time frame. And a lot
of them have rising costs per belt test. Your yellow belt may only
cost 50 bucks, but your b.b. test can cost up to 500. Many don't
teach self defense techniques, just forms and breaking. There's
a whole slew of reasons for it (the dumbest being "our art is too
deadly"), but either way, it's b.s. And a lot of them give children
black belts.

There's no way in hell I'd sign a 2 year contract. Too much can
change in that time. I had one friend who's "master" closed his
school down, still intending on collecting his money. It has been
on his credit report for like 10 years now. Everytime he does what he has to do to get it taken off, boom, it shows right back
up!

I wouldn't worry about "starting all over" in another style/art, you
can still take your education with you, wherever you go.

Just my thoughts!

[Master of Blades]

I agree, allthough I am lucky cuz my teacher, also being my father, makes sure that he checks out each school to make sure they arn't McDojo's. Another good thing to do is ask some of the studants there what they think of it. Coz if there any good they will know its crap! :asian:

[GouRonin]

Originally posted by Master of Blades
Another good thing to do is ask some of the studants there what they think of it. Coz if there any good they will know its crap!

Uh, maybe it's me...'cause we all know I'm a little "slow" sometimes....:rolleyes: but if you ask a student who's at that school why would they badmouth the place if it taught them and they're good? I think that it might be ok to talk with students about their school but remember...they are students of the school and their opinion will be somewhat biased.

[Master of Blades]

scuse me, Past studants. If you can find them that is.

[theneuhauser]

in regards to finding out what is or is not a mcdojo, i suggest that the new student asks whether a portion of their dues goes towards anything besides YOUR instructor and YOUR school. NO percentage of that money should be going towards anyone else (and im also not a believer in association fees, but they are less important here).
the term "mcdojo" came about because some of the schools out there are franchises. they pop up everywhere so that the owner can make more money. a more respectable model, is one where each individual instructor have his own school, the grand master should give his endorsement to his student and this is how the lineage stays strong. there should be no royalties coming out of a school's hard earned reserves to some loser that never even comes around. that is not what the martial arts is about, it is not hamburgers!:soapbox:

[GouRonin]

Originally posted by Master of Blades
scuse me, Past studants. If you can find them that is.

But always remember, why are they no longer students there? Always take that with a grain of salt as well.

[theneuhauser]

But always remember, why are they no longer students there? Always take that with a grain of salt as well

if you think about that one, though, youll probably find that most of the students that are in your area, but dropped out are lazy couch potatos that couldnt get into it anyway, and the dedicated, long term students (long term meaning anything over 6 months probably!) are no longer there because they moved far far away.

[GouRonin]

There are always students that left for other reasons. All in all any information or advice you get needs to be looked at from where it came from. Just make sure you are getting what you want before committing.

[Master of Blades]

:shrug:.............Got something for everything dont'cha! ;) nah hes completly right. But just make sure you do your homework. I think that rolls everything into one!

[GouRonin]

The problem is that the public is at the mercy of these guys who pull these scams. They have no idea what to look for in a martial art or a school and thus are really only able to choose within the area that they know. Which isn't much. So sometimes people don't know they are being scammed for years until they move out into the world and compare themselves. Heck, some never leave the school and have no idea what's going on outside of their school.

[Amanda Sedai]

Wow, I got a lot of replies. :eek: Thanks, everyone.

I've taken free lessons at this school before, and it seems to be pretty good. Self-defense is taught (I've noticed here and in other places it's been mentioned that "McDojos" don't always teach self-defense) as well as sparring and katas. The school is a franchise in that it has two locations, but I actually consider this a good thing because one is near my house and the other is near my college. (I'm a commuter but will probably live on campus next year.)

The only thing I'm still not sure about is the contract thing. What's everyone's opinion on that?

Theneuhauser, you mentioned the instructor's lineage. I don't know specifically who taught the instructor, but I do know that the school has been approved by the International Karate Kobudo Federation. Does anyone have any opinions about this organization? There's information on it at www.ikkf.org.

The instructor does seem to know what he's doing, though. During my free lessons I asked questions about things like the purpose of the katas and stuff and he was able to answer them, and he corrected me whenever I screwed the katas up.

Thanks again, everyone. :asian:

[theneuhauser]

ikkf is just like any other organization, i dont like organizations. but i do like okinawan karate styles!!! find out if they are just associated with ikkf or if they take a more active role, and what that involves. that would give you another idea of what type of overall curriculum you will be involved with. lineage shouldnt be the most important issue, its just another piece of the puzzle for you. when you have a good idea of who the instructor really is and what the school is about then you can see the clear picture.

martial arts instruction is really about something different for every one of us, so what do you want out of your training?
good luck amanda!!!!!

[Kenpo Wolf]

I'm glad you like the instructor. As far as a contract is concerned, I do not like the idea of them due to the fact things change and the contract makes you financially obligated to pay for the classes even though you may have to stop going for a reason. It's a diffrent matter with a 4 or 6 month contracts, but I would shy away from a 2 year contract.

[Rich Parsons]

In Anything you do in life:

One should always do the following:

1) Define what you want to do or accomplish.

2) Learn about what you want to do, this way you can recognize those that have what you want.

3) Do, what you want to do.


Here is another point, Good Choices come from experience, and experience is gained by making bad choices. Now you can listen to others to limit the amount of bad choices you make. But, do not get really upset with yourself, if you find yourself a couple of months into training, and you find that you are not happy or satisfied.

Personally, once you have defined what you are looking for, self defense, tournament play, Olympic sports, fighting, etc., ..., you can make your choice of instructors, not necessary an art or school. Yes find an instructor the teaches in a manner you easily understand and comprehend. This
will help you learning in the long wrong.

Just some of my experience and knowledge, for what it is worth. :D

Train well

Rich

[GouRonin]

Originally posted by Rich Parsons
In Anything you do in life:
One should always do the following:

1) Define what you want to do or accomplish.
2) Learn about what you want to do, this way you can recognize those that have what you want.
3) Do, what you want to do.

Here is another point, Good Choices come from experience, and experience is gained by making bad choices. Now you can listen to others to limit the amount of bad choices you make. But, do not get really upset with yourself, if you find yourself a couple of months into training, and you find that you are not happy or satisfied.

This was so good that I had to post it again. I suggest that we all remember this post and when anyone comes to the board and asks about choosing an art/style/teacher/etc we re-post this.
:asian:

[Rich Parsons]

Originally posted by GouRonin



This was so good that I had to post it again. I suggest that we all remember this post and when anyone comes to the board and asks about choosing an art/style/teacher/etc we re-post this.
:asian:

Gou,


Thanks.! :) If this is as godo as you and I think it is, then is there some way to get Katih or Arnisador to post it on the FAQ forum for easier linking too?

Ciao

Rich

:asian:

[GouRonin]

Originally posted by Rich Parsons
In Anything you do in life:
One should always do the following:

1) Define what you want to do or accomplish.
2) Learn about what you want to do, this way you can recognize those that have what you want.
3) Do, what you want to do.

Here is another point, Good Choices come from experience, and experience is gained by making bad choices. Now you can listen to others to limit the amount of bad choices you make. But, do not get really upset with yourself, if you find yourself a couple of months into training, and you find that you are not happy or satisfied.

I would definatly looove to see this advice woven into the FAQ for choosing Schools/Arts/Teachers.

Take it to a vote!
:soapbox:

[Eraser]

Gou,

I second that motion!!


Rich,

NIce work dude... Its very similar to the guide line that I use for myself (just worded differently):cool:

[GouRonin]

Rich and I have suggested this be added in some way to the FAQ. Eraser has seconded it. Do we need to vote it in through everyone or what now?
:confused:

[arnisador]

Originally posted by GouRonin

Rich and I have suggested this be added in some way to the FAQ. Eraser has seconded it. Do we need to vote it in through everyone or what now?

Just let us know! I haven't been following this thread myself and just came back to it today to see where it had headed. Feel free to PM or e-mail suggestions and requests. I'll bring it to the attention of the other mods. now.

-Arnisador
-MT Mod-

[Nightingale]

These don't apply to every McDojo, and they may apply to schools that aren't McDojos, but this is a generalization.

ways to identify a mcdojo:

Ask them how many black belts they have under the age of ten. If its one or more, look elsewhere.

Do they give you a decent trial period (a week or two) before pressuring you to sign up? If not, look elsewhere. You can't make a good decision about a school with one private lesson.

Do they pressure you to sign a long term contract? If there are no short term options, tread carefully.

Is the sale a "high pressure" sale? Do they pressure you to sign up quickly and for a long period of time? If so, be careful.

Do they "guarantee" a black belt if you pay more money, or sign up for a certain length of time? if so, look elsewhere. Black belts are SKILL based. They shouldn't be bought. You can buy a belt, but not the skill that should go with it.

Do they teach self defense, with a student acting as the attacker? Not just in the air stuff, but actually working with another person? If not, look elsewhere.

Do you come home with a bruise or two? As a beginner, you probably should... if not, re-evaluate.

Are they a chain (not just part of an association, but a chain of schools with the same name)? If so, tread cautiously.

Ask what percentage of students get a black belt. If its higher than about 20-30%, look elsewhere. Less than 1% of people who start martial arts usually earn a black belt. 15 or 20 percent could just mean a really good instructor, but more than 20%, and you're most likely looking at a mcdojo.

Did the instructor ask you if you've trained before? if not, look elsewhere.

Did the instructor honor your old rank if you've trained before in the same style? If not, be very cautious... the only thing they have to gain by taking your rank is your money from testing fees. Most instructors will simply hold you at your current rank until you are caught up and remember the stuff you've forgotten.

Does the instructor, when trying to recruit you, tell you horror stories about the other schools in town? If so, tread carefully. They should be selling their school to you, not making you afraid to go elsewhere. Just like in politics, beware of mudslinging campaigns.

Ask the instructor why they teach martial arts. If you don't like the answer, or if the answer has anything to do with finances, leave.

And last but certainly not least, how do you feel about the instructor? What do you think the instructor's motivation for teaching is? Is the instructor more interested in you, or your wallet? If its the latter, leave now.

[Bob Hubbard]

ok...heres the question on adding this to the FAQs:

Add the entire thread, or can we pare it down to a single "long" post and add that instead?

Give me a couple of opinions/thoughts on how we should do this and we will add it to the FAQs ASAP.

(Nice catch folks...I missed this thread.) :)

[Eraser]

Night,
you too have some great points.. but not all can mean that they are a McDojo......


Originally posted by nightingale8472
Do you come home with a bruise or two? As a beginner, you probably should... if not, re-evaluate.

I didn't come home with a bruise until after my first month (that's when they allowed me to spar a bit) Dang.. I personaly think you should let your new students (especially if they've never taken a MA) get accustom to the movemetns.. if ya send em home with a bruise the first night.. they might not come back (this is not the case for just women either) IF you Bruise up your new students they might think that its too rough of a MA and then they may go else where.. I was comfortable enough with the basic movements before they started throwing me around. (and now they don't stop)


Originally posted by nightingale8472
Are they a chain (not just part of an association, but a chain of schools with the same name)? If so, tread cautiously.

My school has 4 branches with the same name!! Does that mean they are all McDojo... NO WAy!! each school has an instructor that is fully qualified and is in similar mind set on the focus of the student welfare and the teaching material itself.


Originally posted by nightingale8472
Ask what percentage of students get a black belt. If its higher than about 20-30%, look elsewhere. Less than 1% of people who start martial arts usually earn a black belt. 15 or 20 percent could just mean a really good instructor, but more than 20%, and you're most likely looking at a mcdojo.

I woulnd't necessarily think that over 20 % its a McDojo, i would think that its a school with dedicated students... i think that if your intention is to buy your black belt, then its possible you want to start your own black belt factory too (all for the $$$)
Learning doesn't stop at your black belt... i stops when your dead.. even then.. i don't have the knowledge to proove if it does then too.. (cuz then i'd be dead.. and you would have a ghost in here) I would watch to see how fast the lower ranking students and the more physical (bigger stronger ones) advanced.. if you see that they are advancing a what you believe is a very fast rate.. then i would re consider.



You have some very great points night.. its just that I know my school isn't a black-belt factory (McDojo as we are calling it) but you can look at a few of your points in a different way!!

P.s This is a great discussion!!!:D :asian:

[7starmantis]

WOW! I didn't get to spar until after I had been there over 6 months!!
There is not set standard for judging somethign like that. You have to judge for yourself. Does the instructor take interest in you during class, is he cautious of your safty, things like that.

MHO

7sm

[Nightingale]

Originally posted by nightingale8472

These don't apply to every McDojo, and they may apply to schools that aren't McDojos, but this is a generalization.

ways to identify a mcdojo:


Do you come home with a bruise or two? As a beginner, you probably should... if not, re-evaluate.

Are they a chain (not just part of an association, but a chain of schools with the same name)? If so, tread cautiously.

Ask what percentage of students get a black belt. If its higher than about 20-30%, look elsewhere. Less than 1% of people who start martial arts usually earn a black belt. 15 or 20 percent could just mean a really good instructor, but more than 20%, and you're most likely looking at a mcdojo.


I said at the beginning of my post that these are just things to look for, but they are things that are more common in McDojos than in regular schools.

I used words like "be cautious" and "re-evaluate" rather than "you're in a McDojo, RUN!" because there's no set formula. All I meant was that those are the warning signs. Its like that checklist for diabetes... you can answer all 10 questions "yes" and still not be a diabetic... (although if you do take that checklist test and answer more than a few as "yes" go to your doc asap)

[Eraser]

NIght....

I thought so.... my intention was not to say you are wrong.. but just that some warning signs may not be warnings but indications of a good school!!

Hopefully i have not offended you!!:confused: :asian:

[Nightingale]

no offense taken.

[Amanda Sedai]

Update: The local community rec center that I belong to is offering karate/judo lessons. I'm considering trying this. (it's a 5-week session, which makes it much less of a commitment than the 6-month/2-year program I mentioned earlier. And I'm pretty sure they offer sessions continually at this rec center, so I think if I want to continue after the first 5 weeks I can just sign up again. I'll have to ask, though.)

Anyhow, here are my questions about this:

-It may be that they're offering karate and judo as separate classes, but the way the class is described it sounds like karate and judo are being taught in the same class. Is it "acceptable" for someone to learn two completely different martial arts at the same time?

-All I know about judo is that it involves grappling and throwing people. The mental images this conjures up could earn me a place in the "darn stereotypes!" thread. Seriously, I'm picturing people being thrown across the room like acrobats. So what is judo really like? And can someone like me, who is extremely un-agile and wears glasses do this? (I had no problem with my glasses in karate, but then no one tried to throw me in karate either. I can just picture my glasses flying off my face in judo.)

-The description says the instructor won an award recently from the "World Tang Soo Do" Association. What the heck is that? And isn't "tang soo do" Korean? (Karate and judo are Japanese, right?)

-As I said before, I like the fact that you pay for only 5 weeks at a time. However, it's about $50 (US) for the 5 week session. Is that a reasonable price? (It sounds like a good price to me, but then I know nothing about how much martial arts lessons are supposed to cost.)


Originally posted by Rich Parsons

In Anything you do in life:

One should always do the following:

1) Define what you want to do or accomplish.

2) Learn about what you want to do, this way you can recognize those that have what you want.

3) Do, what you want to do.


I like that, and agree with everyone who said it should be in the FAQ. :) Well, let me answer the first one and maybe you guys can help me out with the second (and ultimately the third) one.

The problem (or maybe the good thing) about me is that I want just about everything you can get out of martial arts:

-I want to improve my balance and coordination. I'm extremely uncoordinated (I don't just mean I'm a klutz; I mean I actually had to have occupational therapy until I was about 12 or 13. I'm nowhere near as bad as I used to be but still I'm not the kind of person you'd expect to see doing MA. I figure if average people can turn into agile and coordinated martial artists, maybe if I study MA I can become average. :p

-It's exercise. I'm overweight. I'm a computer science major who sits in front of a computer all day, if not doing work for school then playing videogames and surfing the web. I need a hobby that actually involves moving more than my wrists.

-Self-defense is a very good thing to know.

-It's a sport. I'll never be Olympic material, but still it would be so cool to actually play a sport and participate in competitions and stuff. :boxing:

-The whole "confidence" and "self-discipline" thing.

Well, any advice would be appreciated. Thanks, everyone. :asian:

[George Martin]

Some additional questions are relative to the amount of injuries you may receive. Observing classes will tell you if the white belts are being used as punching bags by the black belts. How much control is there in sparring? Do the students just belt each other around? What protective gear is used? Are they lax about this?
If you are a woman, are you comfortable sparring with men? Do you want to wait till you achieve some degree of competency before doing so.
This may be a little controversial. Everyones thoughts.

[arnisador]

The price is reasonable.

Tang Soo Do is Korean Karate--influenced by Shotokan and Chinese kung fu. It's self-defense oriented but also can be sued for sport karate. See our Tang Soo Do (http://www.martialtalk.com/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=62) forum.

Ordinarily I'd say "no" to learning two arts at once but it's different with Judo and TSD. I'd say go for it--they won't interfere at all; they're too different. Judo is grappling and TSD is kicking and punching.

You can get safety glasses or goggles for Judo but yes the regular glasses will have to go. I just take mine off for BJJ--your'e so close, after all.

Try it! Good luck.

[Nightingale]

with regards to glasses...

I wear em. I'm so blind I'll walk into a wall without em. However, I can't wear em in the dojo, and the "safe" glasses just look damned stupid, inhibit your peripheral vision, and just plain get in the way.

my solution:

soft, disposable contacts. they're not any more dangerous than if you were wearing nothing at all, because unlike hard or gas-permeable lenses, the soft ones are as pliable as saran wrap. if you get hit in the eye, the worst that'll happen is you get a black eye and lose your contact lens. (hence, disposables...they cost about two bucks each, so if you lose or tear one, its not a biggie, and you can carry extras in your bag if its an issue. I've never lost one, though, and I've been wearing them for like ten years now).

soft lenses are really easy to get used to. most people don't even notice them after a few days. if you talk to your eye doc, most of them will give you a couple of free pairs to try out to see if they work for you. putting them in is the hard part, taking them out is easy (reach, grab)

talk to your eye doctor and figure out the best solution for you.

[Amanda Sedai]

Thanks, everyone.

Crap, I can barely see past my nose without glasses on. How important is sight in judo? I'd take Nightingale's solution but I can't stand having anything in my eyes.

[Nightingale]

after a day or so, you don't even notice the contacts... give em a try. your eye doc will give you a free trial pair, so it won't even cost you anything. You'll be amazed at how much more you can see. glasses really cut into your peripheral vision.

sight is very important. if you can't see your opponent, you'll have trouble countering what he or she is doing.

[jkn75]

I don't wear mine when I spar but I do during regular class. If I lost my glasses in a fight, how would I react? what can I really see?

Picking a martial art is difficult and can take some time but is well worth it. Also remember if you choose something and don't like it, you can always change to something else after your contract is up.

Good Luck
:asian:

[GouRonin]

If it was me, I'd opt for the Judo. Plus without glasses Judo allows for you to "feel" to do techniques with less sight involved.

[J-kid]

Really depends on the judo instructer i think judo is a great Martail art for self defense and fun sport aspect , My coach teachs us Judo Jujutsu and all other forms of Jacket fighting, It get ruff when your hurt but i Really like it and has shown me alot about fighting, Conbine Judo/Jujutsu with a strong standing Martial art and you have a GReat chance of winning a fight. I cross train to get stand up to go with my judo/jujutsu its made me one tuff teenager, But with great power comes great respawnsiblity so i dont go around attacking people or anything, UFC fighting thats a whole nother storie, Your friend judo kid!

[Lauriesthree]

I have a question - any one have a referral for a solid teaching dojo in overland park, Kansas? I have a 9 year old interested in studying Tae Kwon Do. I took a while back and I think my Grandmaster was a good teacher. But I didn't feel his personality was right for my son.

His son'r now have studios of their own, and the one my son took his trial calss through is a 6th degree Dan and very good with the kids. My complaint is, the classes can be very crowded in the beginner kids class and the push for contracts is annoying.

Anyone have a thought they'd like to share?

[Sanchin-J]

Well Amanda,
I think you've heard a good bit of feedback but I couldn't resist answering anyhow because we've been put under the magnifying glass a few times by critics of our style due to the belt system and unusual methods used to determine promotions.

Some say our system allows promotions to come too rapidly, while others claim that it takes too long between certain belts. The martial art your looking at sound very familiar to Sanchin-Ryu with the exception that we're focused on a different form of actual Karate, perhaps clinging more to an Isshinryu (sp?) type of approach, rather than a Kenpo/Kempo approach. However, the progression you make in the belt ranking system of a martial art depends on how the instructors choose to grade and what they are specifically looking for. I've seen students come into our art who didn't have a full working knowledge of the CBAs (combined advanced basics) yet were promoted as high up as purple belt because they exhibited the understanding of the art which was what the instructor was looking for over anything else.

Don't get me wrong, I wasn't overly happy about the way the student was reviewed and tested, and I certainly wouldn't use that method myself, but at the time it was acceptable and it was not and is not my place to question an instructor's methods. I think what I would be looking for would be;

- A keen understanding of the fundamentals.
- Fluidity in the execution of the techniques.
- A proper execution of the techniques.
- A proper understanding of how techniques are used to create strategy.


Of course, the things we look for change as the student advances, but once again, it really depends upon the art and the instructors as to what your graded on. Sanchin-Ryu often gets placed under heavy criticism for the simple fact that some of our masters are 7th or 8th dan and they aren't ancient Okinawans with long white hair and sweeping white robes, most are middle aged men and women. What most fail to realize is, your true education and experiences in our specific art don't really begin to even take off until you reach black belt, which does in fact change the rate of progression you may experience in the earlier belts. Each style handles this whole system of promotion a little different than the next, your best bet is to voice your concerns to the instructors and have a nice sit down.

[swiftpete]

Loads of good advice but you can think about all this stuff a bit too much. Go along and have a couple of sessions, after getting stuck in for a couple of sessions you'll have an idea whether it's what you're looking for or not.