Going to isolated places?

[Carol]

A situational awareness question -

I'm transitioning in to a new job. This means a lot of different things...a change in schedule, a change in work hours, a change in location.

I'll be working a town that has "one road going in, and one road going out" as the downeasters say. That's a big change for me, as I've been working in the city.

I have a set 4-days-on, 3-days-off schedule, but my days on will often mean going to work when I'm the only one in the office. This fact may be obvious to anyone paying attention to my office parking lot. I'm a little hesitant about that.

So, my question for you all - have you ever been in a situation where you traveled to an isolated spot, on a regualr basis? If so, how did you manage the situation?

[Cryozombie]

I sort of do on a daily basis. I'm in an industrial complex that is one road running thru it, in a suite of offices that rarely have anyone in them after buisness hours. Often at night I was the only one in our office (that changed recently when my schedule did) and I asked myself some of those same questions.

The main piece of advice I can give you is to stay alert, and know how to contact help if you need it. Also, if you CAN, carry somthing to protect yourself, but be sure you know how to use it.

[Rich Parsons]

Well, the fact that you ask the questions says a lot about how aware you are.

I have closed many a spot, even when there was cash involved. Last to leave, obviously the last per the parking lot.

Park near the doors, pay attention when leaving.

Before entering the parking lot or exiting the town onto the one major road in or out, get a couple of paths, you can drive around on. Meaning find routes in the local area where you can go where it is obvious if someone is following you as you have made four rights in a nice box. If not available then find a local multi-exit store and pull in and do a circle and wait a second for any vehicles to have to pass by. And if possible find another one along the way, even if gas station with multiple exits and people who pay attention or have camera's on the parking lot.

If approached by an unmarked car with a "police" light, find a well let public place, and or call 911 yourself and have them see if it is a real officer before you pull over.

More later after some more thought.

[Xue Sheng]

All very good suggestions.

The fact that you are a martial artist, I believe, makes you more aware of your surroundings and that is half the battle. Trust your gut feelings, if the situation does not feel right it probably isn't, be extra careful. Also make sure someone knows where you are and what time you are suppose to be where ever you are going if possible.

I use to have to patrol those dark desolate area and I made sure had good communication and my 4-C mag-light handy. You would be surprised how useful a mini-mag-light can be and car keys make a good weapon if necessary.

[bignick]

Keep your head up, be aware, don't linger in the parking lot, carry pepper spray and keep it READY! Watch for cars/people that you haven't seen before that appear to be following you.

There's smart and then there's paranoid, and sometimes they're the same thing.

Be smart, be safe, I'm sure you'll be fine.

[Jonathan Randall]

A situational awareness question -

I'm transitioning in to a new job. This means a lot of different things...a change in schedule, a change in work hours, a change in location.

I'll be working a town that has "one road going in, and one road going out" as the downeasters say. That's a big change for me, as I've been working in the city.

I have a set 4-days-on, 3-days-off schedule, but my days on will often mean going to work when I'm the only one in the office. This fact may be obvious to anyone paying attention to my office parking lot. I'm a little hesitant about that.

So, my question for you all - have you ever been in a situation where you traveled to an isolated spot, on a regualr basis? If so, how did you manage the situation?

Yes, until recently I did just that. While alone in the building, be wary of listening to loud music or anything that could interfere with your awareness. Also, buy an inexpensive desk mirror (if you work in a cubicle) so that you can see behind you while working. If you hear someone in the building when you should be alone, don't immediately yell "Hello? Is somebody there?" Look around and do NOT hesitate to hide if you don't know them. Look outside before leaving the building and going to the parking lot. ALWAYS, even in broad daylight. Consider having security, if possible escort you during evening hours - while recognizing that many security guards have criminal records themselves.

While on the road, do NOT stop for anyone. Call for help on your cell - but KEEP ON DRIVING! Also, there have been cases of ambush where a predator who knew a lone woman passed on a certain road alone at a certain time left nails on the road to give her flat tires so that he could get her alone and off the road. If you have a flat, call on your cell and stay inside the car until the tow arrives. When it arrives, call a friend and leave the license number of the truck with them.

Consider purchasing a firearm to have while in transit along this road. I am sorry to say this, but MA is darn near useless in most armed ambush scenarios.

[evenflow1121]

Keep your head up, be aware, don't linger in the parking lot, carry pepper spray and keep it READY! Watch for cars/people that you haven't seen before that appear to be following you.

There's smart and then there's paranoid, and sometimes they're the same thing.

Be smart, be safe, I'm sure you'll be fine.

This is really good advice, awareness like everyone else has said make sure you are aware of your surroundings especially in dark areas. When you get out of your car make sure that the area is safe and especially if you park in a garage of some sort. Carry pepper spray with you, and always remember the eyes, the nose, the groin, and the knees are great places to strike someone.

Jonathan's advice is right on the money as well.

I had a cop friend of mine who teaches rape prevention tell me that even if you are a martial artist he teaches people that attend his class that should they ever be caught in a situation as such, to use their wits, once they have escaped the abductor run screaming your lungs out to safety, no need in attempting to finish the dude off and especially in a dark lit area. One really good point that Jonathan wrote here was the fact about not yelling Hello if you hear a weird noise but rather look around or like he said do not hesitate to hide. And by all means do not ever stop for anyone.

[Carol]

Firearms and pepper spray aren't possible - I live in Mass.

But any other suggestions are welcome...

[evenflow1121]

I am pretty sure you already know this, but your keys can also be an effective weapon. I dont know how many of them you have but you must atleast have two one for your automobile and one for you living quarters so one in between the index and the middle the other in between the middle and the third or the third and pinky while you make a fist.

[bignick]

I am pretty sure you already know this, but your keys can also be an effective weapon. I dont know how many of them you have but you must atleast have two one for your automobile and one for you living quarters so one in between the index and the middle the other in between the middle and the third or the third and pinky while you make a fist.

I've found this method to be faulty, it is very hard to hold them stable in this position. A better option, in my opinion, is to hold a single key between the thumb and the forefinger tightly like you normally would to unlock a door or start the ignition, and use it as a stabbing weapon like a knife. More stable, more control, less suspicious, and less likely to hurt your hand, which is a possibility when gripped the other way, punching a olid object like that will drive the keys back into the palm of your hand and that can hurt a bunch.

[bignick]

I am not familiar with your laws, does it explicitly prevent carrying of pepper spray, or mace. Or do you need some sort of license first? If you are really concerned about your safety, buy a gun, get a carrying license, and spend some time at the range.

[Carol]

I did know about my keys, and usually carry them in my hand for that reason.

I've looked like a fool doing this after class...but a habit that I picked up when traveling was to practice swinning around my laptop bag. I used to do it in my hotel room with a couple of phone books stuffed inside the bag (just in case I drop it...) I've tried doing this on the mat with my real computer inside. If I were to connect with it, it could extend my reach about 2-3 feet...and probably cause a bit of pain.

If I could bounce another question off you...about being in the building. (There are no security guards).

When I am in the building, I will be spending most of my time behind a locked door. There are two rooms where I will be doing most of my work. Both have a significant amount of engineering equipment in them (hence the lock). This means that if an ill-intended person was in the building, he would have to get through a locked door to get to me. The downside is...when I am in those rooms, it is highly unlikely that I will ever know that anyone else is in the building. I suppose the upside is that if I did feel afraid for any reason, I know I have a locked area where I can run and call for help.

Do you see a way around that?

[Jonathan Randall]

If I could bounce another question off you...about being in the building. (There are no security guards).

When I am in the building, I will be spending most of my time behind a locked door. There are two rooms where I will be doing most of my work. Both have a significant amount of engineering equipment in them (hence the lock). This means that if an ill-intended person was in the building, he would have to get through a locked door to get to me. The downside is...when I am in those rooms, it is highly unlikely that I will ever know that anyone else is in the building. I suppose the upside is that if I did feel afraid for any reason, I know I have a locked area where I can run and call for help.

Do you see a way around that?

Can you see if the builing managers will hook up a camera in the building and feed the video to your computer so that you can click on it before you leave and also periodically throughout the day? Perhaps they already have such a camera and all you need is the software and Admin. permission? Such a setup doesn't cost much in our day and age and I think that liability concerns may encourage your bosses to seriously consider your request.

I can neither recommend this or recommend against it, but I have read that sometimes people can improvise a weapon by putting bleach into a squirt gun. Now if you were to hit someone with such a spray you'd probably better be in a life-threatening situation. Not sure I'd do it myself, but it is an option.

[Carol]

I am not familiar with your laws, does it explicitly prevent carrying of pepper spray, or mace. Or do you need some sort of license first? If you are really concerned about your safety, buy a gun, get a carrying license, and spend some time at the range.

Need a license for all of them. However, getting approved for a license is extremely difficult.

[Carol]

Can you see if the builing managers will hook up a camera in the building and feed the video to your computer so that you can click on it before you leave and also periodically throughout the day? Perhaps they already have such a camera and all you need is the software and Admin. permission? Such a setup doesn't cost much in our day and age and I think that liability concerns may encourage your bosses to seriously consider your request.



Now you have me thinking, Jonathan. I could hook up a webcam to the receptionist computer and share it out on Yahoo, that way I could check it from wherever I am.

[MJS]

Before you walk out to the parking lot, scan the area for anything suspicious. If you see a car or someone that you're unfamiliar with, don't go out. Someone else said try to park close to the bldg., which is a good idea. You could also contact the local PD and see if they could set up some extra patrols in the area, especially around the time you may be leaving the bldg.

Mike

[bignick]

Need a license for all of them. However, getting approved for a license is extremely difficult.

But worth trying for at least.

[Bigshadow]

Now you have me thinking, Jonathan. I could hook up a webcam to the receptionist computer and share it out on Yahoo, that way I could check it from wherever I am.
That is a fantastic idea! Also, be conscious of the noise you make. Make your movements quiet when or if you have to move about the building. When you are moving about, if you are quiet, you will be more likely to hear anyone else. Use all of your senses. Use your sense of smell, if someone is nearby in hiding, you may be able to smell them, especially if they are smokers and you are not (no offense to smokers), also cologne, bath soap, etc, you can smell. These should tip you off to the presense of someone else.

When moving about in the building and it is somewhat dark, scan with your eyes don't focus in one spot. Your peripheral will pick up movement in darkeness or low light much faster than looking directly at it.

See about getting a kubotan to attach to your key chain, but don't let your keys jingle when carrying them. Quiet is the key (pun intended). Always remember that often times for them to SEE you, you can SEE them, if they cannot see you, they have to rely on your sound or your timing to spring a trap. Also, if you have to go through a pararie dog farm (cubicles), try to take different routes, so your path is unexpected.

Don't walk next to corners, walk opposite of them, in the case of corners on both sides, walk in the middle. This makes you a harder target for surprises.

When opening a door, push it all the way open, to make sure nobody is behind it. If they are smash them.

Just a few things I can think of.

REMEMBER move quietly! Play Ninja!

[shesulsa]

Question, lady_kaur: Is there any kind of "changing of the guard" if you will, i.e. will you be taking over a shift at a certain time to relieve someone else?

Also, I don't recommend putting bleach in a squirt gun as JR suggested because bleach is extremely caustic and should you be required to use it, you could face charges yourself. There are other things like cologne spray, body spray you could use that are easier to defend against and legal.

Whenever you enter a building to remain for any length of time, you want to do what is called "secure the area." As you approach the building (in your car then on foot), you will want to examine the exterior to look for people hiding in shrubbery, behind small structures like an exterior air conditioning unit, etcetera. Once inside, you will want to sweep the inside - looking in any and all places where a person could hide. If you are releiving anyone, both of you should do it together. Don't let the other employee leave without doing this AND don't settle for their word that it's secure.

Buy the webcams and make the company reimburse you. If they don't, well, write it off as a good investment in your safety.

Ensure you have alternate means of communicating with your supervisors or co-workers at another location besides the telephone. A radio is a good choice. A cel phone is better.

Get to know the terrain around your location WELL and be prepared should you need to escape on foot.

I seriously, SERIOUSLY hope this company provides some kind of security system for you such that you can see outside the office before you step through the door at end of shift.

Good luck.

[evenflow1121]

I've found this method to be faulty, it is very hard to hold them stable in this position. A better option, in my opinion, is to hold a single key between the thumb and the forefinger tightly like you normally would to unlock a door or start the ignition, and use it as a stabbing weapon like a knife. More stable, more control, less suspicious, and less likely to hurt your hand, which is a possibility when gripped the other way, punching a olid object like that will drive the keys back into the palm of your hand and that can hurt a bunch.

I have to disagree, I think if you hold them with your thumb you wont get as much thrust into it. But to each his own, I ve never had a problem holding them as such. In any event, the important thing is that lady_kaur and well everyone understands that no matter how you feel comfortable using them, they can be used effectively as a weapon. BTW the cam monitor idea is a great idea Jonathan, I didnt thinnk about that either.

[Carol]

If there isn't a "changing of the guard" when I start, there will be as soon as they can hire enough engineers to fill out the coverage. I've been told that eventually, the off-hours shifts will expand to 2 people per shift, as need commands...but I have no prediction as to when that will be.

I didn't even think about the shrubbery. The parking lot is wide open. There is some greenery surrounding it, but if someone were hiding in the greens, they would have to come out across a wide open parking lot to get to me.

I would not support the bleach idea either. Legalities aside, the caustic nature of the bleach could easily eat away at the softer parts of the squirt gun and make a huge mess out of one's car or bag. I like the body spray idea though...I like that alot.

A few questions about the police...if anyone can share input.

I'll be working in another state (which is not as dramatic as it sounds as the states are very small up here). Legend says out-of-state plates may be more likely to pulled over. I'm OK with that, but would like a bit of knowledge.

Given what was said (about calling 911 and verifying that the person behind me is a bona-fide policeman)...legally, how cool is this to do? If I'm (say) speeding, I'd hate to get myself in to more trouble because the officer thinks I'm escaping him/her.

What do you think about asking my manager to alert the local police department to the company's change to 24x7x365 operation? I'd hate to rouse any suspicion as to why a vehicle with Mass plates is parked at an empty office building at 10 PM Sunday night.

Is it copasetic to call 911 for uninvited guests in the parking lot...of the four-legged variety? If there's a loose dog out in the lot at 1AM...or a pack of raccoons taking shelter hanging out near my car...that's just not something I want to tangle with alone.

I hope I'm not driving you all nuts with my questions. Believe me, I really appreciate it all of your help.

[shesulsa]

If there isn't a "changing of the guard" when I start, there will be as soon as they can hire enough engineers to fill out the coverage. I've been told that eventually, the off-hours shifts will expand to 2 people per shift, as need commands...but I have no prediction as to when that will be.
You might entertain a serious discussion on the security requirements for this position with your supervisor and management.

I like the body spray idea though...I like that alot.
It stings. Badly. So does hairspray, btw. Mucho owie.


A few questions about the police...if anyone can share input.

I'll be working in another state (which is not as dramatic as it sounds as the states are very small up here). Legend says out-of-state plates may be more likely to pulled over. I'm OK with that, but would like a bit of knowledge.
Ah! Good qvestion. I live near the border between Washington and Oregon and we get this all the time. Yes, you are certainly more likely to be watched in the other state than you would be in your own. So you'll be wanting to check EVERYTHING on your car - your license plate light, your tail lights, your brake lights ... all lights certainly ... and if you get pulled over for a fix-it situation out-of-state, ask the officer "what else do I need to do to be 100% legal?" This might get you out of a ticket as well as be informative. Make sure all your paperwork is up to snuff as well. Here, they pull drivers over to check their license and home address to see if Washingtonians are registering their cars in cheaper Oregon.


Given what was said (about calling 911 and verifying that the person behind me is a bona-fide policeman)...legally, how cool is this to do? If I'm (say) speeding, I'd hate to get myself in to more trouble because the officer thinks I'm escaping him/her.
My teacher's wife (also a bb) works for a local police department and swears by this and says it would be well worth the trouble to be on the safe side. You ARE allowed to do this by law here - I would verify in local precincts where you live and where you work. One thing that can help in this situation is to turn your blinkers on and drive no faster than the speed limit, stay in well-lit areas and drive towards a police station while you verify with 911.


What do you think about asking my manager to alert the local police department to the company's change to 24x7x365 operation? I'd hate to rouse any suspicion as to why a vehicle with Mass plates is parked at an empty office building at 10 PM Sunday night.
Excellent suggestion and it should absolutely be done.


Is it copasetic to call 911 for uninvited guests in the parking lot...of the four-legged variety? If there's a loose dog out in the lot at 1AM...or a pack of raccoons taking shelter hanging out near my car...that's just not something I want to tangle with alone.
I would check with the local precinct about that - some small towns mind, others don't ....


I hope I'm not driving you all nuts with my questions. Believe me, I really appreciate it all of your help.

You're not driving me nuts - actually you've come up with excellent questions that I hope has made us all think - made me think, certainly.

Please keep us up-to-date on this. And do you mind if I PM you on this issue?

[Carol]

PMs are most certainly welcome. The next couple of days for me are going to be maddeningly busy...if you do not hear back from me right away...it's nothing personal.

[shesulsa]

No problem, Lady K.

Just for clarification on my previous post, when I mention driving with the blinkers on, I meant if you find yourself followed by blinking lights. If there's any question in your mind, turn your blinkers on, merge to the slow lane and maintain a safe speed while you verify that you are being pulled over by a bona fide LEO.

Cheers.

[Carol]

Totally understood. I did read it wrong the first time.

Blinkers on + Mass plates + driving slowly = a bona-fide way to get pulled over by a LEO, perhaps :rofl:

[beau_safken]

Just be aware and have a cell phone around. Also, keep about 50 bucks on you as if you get mugged or held up...50 bucks will usually allow someone to feel good and walk away rather than pushing you for more.

Just keep aware and present in the moment. Pretty much all you can do in the world of chaos theory that is Earth.

[still learning]

Hello, Most police departments will send an officer to escort you out of the building if you feel (instincts) something isn't right, especially at night. Try not to this too often..because of "crying wolf"!

They rather be there to help you...than finding a victim! Do not call 911! Get the police dispatch number/numbers for your area. Don't be embarrass by this....the police want to help, most times.

Be nice...and thank them.....READ the book " The Gift of Fear"....Aloha