Martial Arts Needs perfecting

[J-kid]

Hi. I am only 16 and have been have had a deep love for fighting since i was 12ish and watch every UFC match Pride etc. I take Judo/Jujutsu and karate/boxing, In my neighbor hood alot of people spar. (people near my age) Now my QUESTION why dont people try to inprove alot of martial arts ,. for instence when i first started taking judo and fought a realized i was great when, i was near my oppenint but from a distance i was at a disavantige . so i joined karate and after boxing for hand striking. i found mixing the 3 made me a stronger fighter then anyone , . Someone needs to make a real life fighting skill that would be good in any Situation. Ps i believe that alot of martial arts is all show cause it would be hard to do some of the stuff.

Give me your input this is not ment to afend anyone .

[Danny]

I was gonna say Taekwon-Do does that, but then I remembered my instuctor has a BB in Kung-Fu, and Karate. Plus a Brown Belt in Judo. :shrug: Not to mention most Taekwon-Do schools don't teach everything they should be. Anyway a decent self defence instructor will teach students all of the things you mentioned. Doesn't really matter what you call it.

[J-kid]

Ya since i started fighting i have talked to alot of people everyone seems to bad mouth every martial art there not in. What i think is that You must cross train in every fighting aspect to be a good fighter i have took on every fighting stale . ( like i said fighting people around my age) and won. About to rematch a guy who said i cheated or somthing ,. BUt its all fun and games.
Like i said without CROSS TRAINING your not a great fighter yet.

Also i believe all fighting arts have there weak points that need inprovement. If you think there is a art out there that dosnt post it and we will see what people think thanks/.

[Danny]

You don't need to cross train. Just find an instructor that knows what he's doing when it comes to self defence.

[J-kid]

well what kind of Dojo Really Teachs UFC fighting .. like a real life fight. not one with pads or rules. i have never heard of a dojo which trains in the best of every martial arts. there are hybrids but they bring the mistakes of the diffrent martial arts with the diffrent ones. Inless you know somthing who is great in any stituation.

[sweeper]

wow this isn't a fight waiting to happen is it?? :-p

I would say that arts have developed to where they are for a reason and they are genneraly pritty darn good at doing what they have evolved to be designed for. fairly minor changes in environment can produce huge changes in tactics and strategy.

If you are fighting by UFC rules your best bet is to look at fighters in the UFC for their strengths and how they are defeated and try to train around a consistant winner. There are plenty of coaches out there or MMA fighters.

[J-kid]

I say the best way to train for a fight is by training for any kind of fight . for instance you dont wanna just train with a art that dos kicking inless you can knock them out befor they come in grapping range or punching range because its not your game.. Gotta work at all angles from pros who only do work in those areas they are most of the time the best at what they do.
I mean its not likely you are gonna ask a boxer how to kick right that s why you gotta cross train to be strong.

[Danny]

Again I disagree. Find a good instructor. You can cross train all you want. But if you get five differnet instructors that would get their butts handed to them in a street fight your no better off then with one instructor that would get creamed. Good street fighters are good street fighters no matter what art they train.

What I would suggest for street fight training is an exercise called the gauntlet. Basicly you form a line, first person goes down the line and everyone in the line attacks them however they want. Grabs, strikes, weapons. Anything goes. And you then have to defend yourself. You obviously can't seriously injure your partner, but you can certainly get used to no holds barred, life or death, him or me brawling. Second person goes, so on and so forth down the line.

Then if you run into something that you can't seem to fight your way out of, this is where you need a good instructor that can show you what to practice in order to defend yourself from that attack the next time.

[J-kid]

Well that is one way i supose. But keeping a open mind that its hard to find a trainer that is knows alot about kicking grappling and punching(i would say boxing) my instrutor is good with Judo Jujitsu wrestling and boxing , but i was missing kicking so i also train at a Dojo which studys karate and some judo wushu etc.

Most instruters are nerominded thinking that there way is the best and nothing can touch them if they train hard in there method/ thats why you gotta cross train

[sweeper]

"Most instruters are nerominded thinking that there way is the best and nothing can touch them if they train hard in there method/ thats why you gotta cross train"

I don't know.. I think it just seems that way because those tend to be the loudest ones.

[Kempojujutsu]

Originally posted by Judo-kid

well what kind of Dojo Really Teachs UFC fighting .. like a real life fight. not one with pads or rules. i have never heard of a dojo which trains in the best of every martial arts. there are hybrids but they bring the mistakes of the diffrent martial arts with the diffrent ones. Inless you know somthing who is great in any stituation.
If you think UFC teaches real fighting, you are wrong. Sure it teaches most ranges of fighting. But that is where reality ends. If you want reality fighting go back to the days of the Roman's where one fought for his life. Weapons were used, No referee's either how about Mulitpal attackers. In the early UFC days they were going to have the Dog Brothers preform in between the main events. When the UFC review the Dog Brothers tape they thought they were to Extreme for the UFC.
Things needed for the UFC to be real fighting
Weapons: Guns, Knives, clubs, beer bottles, pole cues, chaines
Enviroments: Dirt, Gravel, wet surfaces
Attackers: Mulitpal attackers, someone on drugs
So until the UFC includes most of this It ain't real fighting.
P.s I am a fan of the UFC, I like it but it has it faults too.
Bob
:asian:

[J-kid]

Listen its not like any MA person is gonna carry a sword in ther back pack and when someone trys to fight them, he dosnt pull it out to stab them, so therefor this is not the roman times

[Kempojujutsu]

Who said anything about swords. Go to your local biker bar and say Harley Davidson Sucks. Honda Rules. See how many of them dudes pull out knives. A knive is closer to a sword than a punch or a kick.
Bob :D

[J-kid]

Ok i would like to see anyone do that MA or not., I am talking about unarmed conbat and that makes no sense at all you bringing weapons up. I dont believe someone in TKD or somthing gonna have better luck then me if i run in a bar and said that. SO what is your point we are talking about unarmed conbat got it.

Your friend.
Judo-Kid

[Kempojujutsu]

The thing is you may be in a real unarmed fight and your attacker may start to lose and pick up anything or use anything to win this fight. This doesn't happen in the UFC. This guy may have acouple of buddies that happen to jump in. That doesn't happen in the UFC.
Bob :asian:

[J-kid]

i still dont get your point . Your saying that i would lose because of the weapon ., that could be true , but even if your in any MA your just about to get yours in that situation that you posted so still i am asking for your real question.

[AvPKenpo]

It depends on your experience. Remember this. You don't know what type of training an oppenent has. Who knows maybe your unarmed oppenent has had no MA experience, or he could have been involved in his MA all of his life. You are also comparing your fighting experience to a bunch of H.S. kids. You might be better off in going the WCW instead of UFC. At least there you can have the ego and not get hurt.
It sounds like you are trying to find the best MA out there. Keep searching. You will find it. Until then learn all you can, and don't be cocky. Because someone will teach you a lesson you don't want to learn.

Michael

[sweeper]

ok first off I would say about 90% of the "advanced" students in my class cary some sort of weapon (or somthing to be used as a weapon). that means if they get into a fight it will be an armed fight.

now on to sport vs reality.

UFC is a sport, it's not a street fight. Why? psuchology is the main reason. when you step into a ring even if there were to be no rules and no ref your psychological state is totaly diffrent than in a "street fight" you don't have to worry about multiple attackers or environment, you aren't supprised by the fact you are going to fight and you are there by choice. This changes your psychological position, you focus on your opponant any thing outside of the ring is unimportant. a fight any where else you are in a totaly diffrent psychological state, you have to keep one eye over your shoulder, you don't know what your opponant has you don't know if he has buddies or if someone is going to hop in and quite posably you did not instagate the fight, consaquently you should not focus in the same sence (blocking out all but your opponant) and in most cases you can't your adrenalin kicks in and the "fight or flight" responce kicks in. that changes everything.. so UFC is NOT a street fight, it might be a good traing tool for self deffence but it is not the end all martial art system (or combinations of systems).

[J-kid]

That is true but in the world of MA MMA events are the closest to a real fight as you will see.

[fist of fury]

Originally posted by Judo-kid

That is true but in the world of MA MMA events are the closest to a real fight as you will see.

Not really since many fights end after one or 2 strikes.

[J-kid]

THats not true at all most fights end up on the ground and i mean most fights, ask anyone its a well known fact

[eternalwhitebelt]

If you want t be a great martial artist you need many things.
1. A great system (or two)
2. A great teacher
3. Natural talent
4. A great work ethic.
5. You have to learn weapon concepts, how to take them away and how to use them.
Judo kid, you are still young and you seem pretty gung-ho, I like that, but there is a lot more going on in the world of combat than the UFC and mixed martial arts. Real combat arts are deadly and to the point. There are no submissions in real combat. There is no ref and there is no break between rounds. A weapon WILL be pulled if any of the paricipants has one and the chances are you will not see it coming so you HAVE to expect it. Boxing is a sport. Yes you can learn a lot from it, I personally love to box, but outside of the ring I have no problem dealing with a boxer quickly and effectively. Boxers do not expect to throw a punch into your elbow and have their hand explode on contact. I train for this everyday. This is only one example, there are many. I could say the same thing about judo. It is a sport. On the mat I have beensubmitted many times by my judo friends. However when we open the game up and allow all of the tools that I have been taught it is no contest. BY all means enjoy what you are currently doing but do not close your minds on some arts that you have not studied. There are arts that have many of the anwsers that you are looking for, and some that you are not looking for.

[fist of fury]

Originally posted by Judo-kid

THats not true at all most fights end up on the ground and i mean most fights, ask anyone its a well known fact

Unless someone is a seasoned street fighter it usually only takes one or 2 hits to take the fight out of them. Then somebody runs off. If you get taken to the ground ground fighting skills are good for a while until the attackers buddies start kicking you while your trying to submit your opponent. It's best to train to keep yourself of the ground. And the 90% of fights go to the ground myth is a story perpetuated byt the brainwashed mma/ufc fanatics.

[Dronak]

Originally posted by Judo-kid

THats not true at all most fights end up on the ground and i mean most fights, ask anyone its a well known fact

Do you know how many times this gets brought up in favor of grappling arts over striking arts? OK, if this is such a well known fact, you must also know where it came from, right? How about providing us with a reference so we can check it out ourselves? Was this stated in a book or journal article? A police study? Can you provide some statistics to back it up? Tell us how the data were gathered and the method used to obtain the result? Do conditions of the fight, environment, people/styles involved, trained fighters or not, rules or not, etc., have some effect on whether or not the fight goes to the ground? Are we talking about real life street fights or controlled fights like UFC/NHB competitions?

These are the kind of things we need to know to determine the validity of a claim for ourselves. Scientific method -- you make the claim, you provide the evidence so we can check it out ourselves. If it's true, it should be reproducible. If you're referencing someone else's work, tell us what it is so we can look it up and see how he/she got the results you're quoting. "Most fights end up on the ground" is a statistic -- most = greater than 50%. Now provide the statistics and references to back it up and show me it has some validity or I'm not going to believe it. If I were to say "most fights don't go to the ground" would you believe me if the only support I provided was "ask anyone, it's a well known fact"?

[J-kid]

I have seen them in books also for a fact i have seen many realife fights and yes everyone endup on the ground, so what you think that you can take someone out with 2 hits be my guest and try. TALK IS CHEAP inless you can back up what you say. About the 90 percent of fights ending up on the ground. This is a true statement i have seen polls etc. My second question is have you been in a real fight.

[fist of fury]

I never said I could take anyone out in 2 hits I said most people aren't ready for the shock of being hit and once hit they don't want to get hit anymore. Yes I've been in real life fights not many, I've walked away from quite a few. And no I didn't lose and I didn't get taken to the ground either. Polls can be easily manipulated.

[Rob_Broad]

Judo-Kid many of the more learned members in this thread are taking into consideration that you are only 16 and at that age you are full of knowledge, while us old farts don't know what we are talking about.

As a person who was a bouncer in a bar and had to break up many fight or be in many fights escorting someone out of the bar, I will say that 90% of the fights do not end up on the ground. In actuality I have only been in 2 fights that went to the ground. Saying something is so doesn't make it true around her, this group like to see proof, if you have the statistics from a website share the link.

Nothing out there is close to real fighting except real fighting. And in a real fight there is no winner.

[J-kid]

Sure i will take a look for a site with some proof and yeah i know i am 16 with plenty to learn. One day your gonna see me on TV as a ufc fighter. :D

[Rob_Broad]

Originally posted by Judo-kid

Sure i will take a look for a site with some proof and yeah i know i am 16 with plenty to learn. One day your gonna see me on TV as a ufc fighter. :D

Everybody but have a goal, I just have goals that have some longevity.

[KennethKu]

Originally posted by Judo-kid

I have seen them in books also for a fact i have seen many realife fights and yes everyone endup on the ground, so what you think that you can take someone out with 2 hits be my guest and try. TALK IS CHEAP inless you can back up what you say. About the 90 percent of fights ending up on the ground. This is a true statement i have seen polls etc. My second question is have you been in a real fight.

I read at the ITF forum that some one mentioned the 90% number refers to police making arrest. So yeah, the COPS would most likely take the suspect to the ground. So that is not a valid number to use in other fighting situations.

[Dronak]

See, Judo-kid, this is my point. KennethKu is saying there's a qualifier on that 90% of fights go to the ground -- that it's police arrests. He's right that it makes sense there, because they want to control the suspect. Grappling provides more chance for control than striking does, right? If that's true though, it doesn't necessarily hold true for other types of fights in other conditions. You can't take a statement that's true in one case and claim it holds true in all cases. This is why I was saying we need to know more about the data you're getting your results from.

As far as fighting goes, I don't know who you were asking about their experience. I have not had any sparring/combat training and I'm pretty sure I've said so elsewhere on the board. I have not been in a real fight and I have never claimed to have been in one. I also never said anything about taking someone out with two hits. Please watch your quotes and attributions and direct your questions to the people you want to answer them. If posting on a subject here I normally state my level of experience with it. But you don't need any experience with fights to dispute a statistical claim about them and that's what I was doing -- saying provide the evidence to back up the claim or I (and probably others) won't believe it.

[Kempojujutsu]

90% of all hockey fights go to the ground. Maybe thats what he means? Going back to the UFC thing again. At one point submission was how most fights ended in the early days of UFC. Than most MA learn how to counter the submissions, fights could last over 30 minutes waiting on someone to submit his opponent. Then came ground & Pound, usually they didn't look for a submission. This would be how a streetfighter would fight if he landed on the ground. And he would only use this method if he didn't have a weapon to use. UFC are just like boxing, kickboxing matches. It's a sport of the 2000's period.
Bob :asian:

[sweeper]

ok, judo kid you missed the point of what I was saying, I was saying there is no "closest to a real fight " in a sport, they are to dis-simular, you engage in them for seperate reasons, training for UFC is not training for self deffence or for street fighting or for anything else. It may help out something else or paralel it but it isn't of it's self training for self deffence or "real" fighting.


As to the statistic thing, I know an ex-bouncer that said most fights that last more than a minute end up on the ground, but he said most fights end with the first combination.. Also if you were to aska bouncer how many times he went down that would be an unfair question because in many cases in the US bouncers will grapple with a person over boxing them due to lawasuits. Something else I might bring up is a fight won't go to the ground if neither the fighters want to be on the ground, they don't just magicly fall over and start rolling, most fighters don't want to go down unless they are loosing (when they will clinch) in other words either you are winning and the other person wants to clinch or you are loosing and you clinch, otherwise you are probably fighting someone with grappling experience, that being said it isn't realy that difficult to stay up unless the person realy knows what they are doing.

[Kempojujutsu]

Let say you punch or kick someone and they fall down and you run away. Does that count as one way that most fights go to the ground. Because that would inflate the % of how most fights go to the ground.
Bob :rofl:

[AvPKenpo]

Originally posted by Judo-kid

I have seen them in books also for a fact i have seen many realife fights and yes everyone endup on the ground, so what you think that you can take someone out with 2 hits be my guest and try. TALK IS CHEAP inless you can back up what you say. About the 90 percent of fights ending up on the ground. This is a true statement i have seen polls etc. My second question is have you been in a real fight.

Ummm.......as my wife put it you only end up on the ground if you suck.... Not my opinion but I thought it was funny..
All my fights that I have ever been in I have never ended on the ground. And I am sure that I have been in more fights than you have. I beat the living S&%T out of them standing up. And this was before I was trained in any art. I could go into details, but I will spare everyone. Not all fights end on the ground, nor should they. IF YOU ARE A TRAINED AND SEASONED FIGHTER YOU WILL NOT END UP ON THE GROUND, you just won't want to go there. You will get to understand this the first time that you lose in a street fight. You will understand after some of your oppenents friends start kicking the crap out of you while you are on the ground.

Michael

[hand2handCombat]

for strinking, judo-kid, instead of joining karate for kicks and boxing for punches. your could have went to MT or JKD.

i think ppl dont invent and art like that becasue they could do mma. because inventing an art requires major study.

so, suggestions for "any situation" problems: MT, BJJ, Iado, Arnis, Wrestling, JJ

[Kirk]

judo-kid, let's say you ARE a superior fighter, and you get me to
the ground ... well you BETTER hope some of my friends aren't
around, cause your head is going to get stomped into the
concrete

[Rich Parsons]

Originally posted by Judo-kid

I have seen them in books

I have seen many things in books, some were true others were not. Assume Non-Fiction, how was the data collected, etc., ..., ?


also for a fact I have seen many real life fights and yes everyone end up on the ground,

In High School, most of the fights I saw, ended up on the ground. Why? The wrestlers and football players who tackled, were the ones who were the larger and stronger people who took it to the ground against totally untrained people.

Later while bouncing and security work, 'Most' of the fights I have been in or saw, did not end up on the ground. Just my personal data.


so what you think that you can take someone out with 2 hits be my guest and try. TALK IS CHEAP unless you can back up what you say.

In the bouncing realm, my data is that after a few quick exchanges, either the fight is over, or people do not wish to continue. Just my personal experience again. BTW, be cautious, how you tell 'TALK IS CHEAP', and 'BACK UP WHAT YOU SAY' too. These are offensive and fight starting words. Someone just might take you up on it. And my experience the ones who do, LIKE TO FIGHT, and put people in the hospital for fun. Just my experience.


About the 90 percent of fights ending up on the ground. This is a true statement I have seen polls etc.

Please show the data, a trusted publisher, a site that can be questioned for its' sources. Just because I say that there is life on other planets does not make it true until proof has been given some how.

Once again my Experience would not cover 'Most', which I would call 50%, so 90% is way over the limit, of the fights going to the ground.

As for the police taking it to the ground, this is their training, and this how they expect to win. More cops show up for back-up and the poor slug on the ground with them has multiple people trying to hurt him into submission. Once again just my experience.


My second question is have you been in a real fight.

(* Deleted after second thought *)

You figure it out, and you let me know if you believe if I have ever been in a real fight.

Rich

[arnisador]

Originally posted by sweeper

As to the statistic thing, I know an ex-bouncer that said most fights that last more than a minute end up on the ground, but he said most fights end with the first combination.

I bet this is closer to the truth.

Judging from video on TV--COPS, news, etc.--the overwhelming liklihood seems to be a wild right punch to the head, followed by two or three more, followed by an attempt to tackle.

As for the comment "IF YOU ARE A TRAINED AND SEASONED FIGHTER YOU WILL NOT END UP ON THE GROUND", I just don't buy it. It ain't always gonna happen the way you want it to happen.

[Rich Parsons]

Originally posted by arnisador



I bet this is closer to the truth.

Judging from video on TV--COPS, news, etc.--the overwhelming liklihood seems to be a wild right punch to the head, followed by two or three more, followed by an attempt to tackle.

As for the comment "IF YOU ARE A TRAINED AND SEASONED FIGHTER YOU WILL NOT END UP ON THE GROUND", I just don't buy it. It ain't always gonna happen the way you want it to happen.

Arnisador,

Please excuse, my post if I came across this way. "IF YOU ARE A TRAINED AND SEASONED FIGHTER YOU WILL NOT END UP ON THE GROUND" I never meant to come across this way if I did. I said most. I have been on the floor / ground in many fights, just not most. Assuming that you count fights where only one or two punches exchanges are thrown, and people want to leave since you are still standing.

Just a follow-up clarification of my previous post.

Rich

[arnisador]

Sorry Mr. Parsons, that was a direct quote from AvPKenpo's post but I failed to attribute it. I've been typing all day (for work) and my fingers are tired!

[eternalwhitebelt]

Talk is cheap. I like that judo kid. Oh the bravery of the young. You asked a question earlier. " Can you take someone out with two hits, be my guest and try." Now see I have been in two real fights. In one a knife was pulled on me. The second there was more than one person against me. Now see judo kid all of that bravery is thrown out the window in circumstances like these. If you can find the man that I struck in the throat and made him pass out, maybe you can ask him if one or two strikes can do the trick. His friends seemed to momentarily forget about me as he crumpled. You know what I did judo kid, I didn't dance around like a UFC champ after my victory either. You know what I did? I ran. I ran so no one could pull a gun or a knife on me. I ran so the cops would not have to take my word over theirs and I end up in jail for using excessive force. I will not bore you with the details of the fight where the knife was pulled on me. Just believe that you better hope you know a little more than how to grapple and how to box if you are ever unfortunate enough to have this happen to you.

[Rich Parsons]

Originally posted by arnisador

Sorry Mr. Parsons, that was a direct quote from AvPKenpo's post but I failed to attribute it. I've been typing all day (for work) and my fingers are tired!

Arnisador,

No Apology required, Like I Said, I needed to clarify my stance.

Rich

[arnisador]

Originally posted by eternalwhitebelt

In one a knife was pulled on me. The second there was more than one person against me.

I've had both of these happen in the same fight--and as a slow runner I was reluctant to try running (they were after my ca$h and likely to follow).

[Dronak]

This is drifting a bit, but I thought I'd mention it because I didn't get it right away. When you're sprinting and trying to run fast, you want to stay on your toes and not let your heels touch the ground. You'll run faster this way. If you look at track sprinters' shoes you'll see that they only have spikes on the toes. That's because they don't use their heels when they run. When I was doing track back in high school, the coaches had me trying lots of events to see where I'd be best. I didn't learn until after this little test period that you're supposed to stay on your toes while sprinting. I just thought I'd mention this in case people here didn't know about it. Like I said, I didn't get it right away so I thought this tip might help.

Now, if you're just a slowish runner period, this may not be enough to help you escape a fight. But if you're not a bad runner and plan to run anyway, this might help you clear your attackers faster. Just note that with an all-out sprint, you probably won't be able to run at top speed much more than 400-800m tops (about 1/4 - 1/2 mile). In track the 400m is still a sprint event, the 800m is sort of the transition from sprint to endurance, so I wouldn't bet on going much more than 1/2 mile max. at a full sprint, probably not even that far unless you're in good running/sprinting shape.

[AvPKenpo]

Originally posted by arnisador

Sorry Mr. Parsons, that was a direct quote from AvPKenpo's post but I failed to attribute it. I've been typing all day (for work) and my fingers are tired!

What I meant by that is you won't WANT to end up on the ground, read the rest of the sentence please:D . There are occasions where people will get wrapped up. But you don't have to stay there. You can get back up and fight. If you are a seasoned fighter you will most likely be able to keep from going to the ground. Sorry I didn't make my point clear. I was headed to bed when I typed it.

I do agree with a lot of the other posts. Most likely the fight will be over in the first few strikes of a street fight. Most everyone here understands the power of a hammerfist strike to the temple, or the jaw, or the neck, or basically anywhere on the body. Its going to either render you unconcious, in a lot of pain, or possibly dead. *note this is one example of thousands* :asian:

Michael

[Kempojujutsu]

I have a student that is 17 around 285lb and he is very much into the UFC also. We do work out doing UFC type rules. But when we get into Kempo class and are working self defense. He usually tries to get some kind of submission on me. I have biting him, stuck him in the groin, pinch the inside of his groin, etc. The point here is he is looking at the UFC and I am using anything to survive. One side note everything I listed doing to him are illegal in the UFC. In a real street fight anything is fair game.
Bob :asian:

[J-kid]

I WANNA FIGHT SOMEONE IN KENPO . if it is true what you say then i should get the azs beating i want from them. A good fight would be fun from someone in my wt devision; shoulds cool a nice spar with a ref and all . I dont really wanna fight anyone in a real fight but spariing is great. Do you think at a kenpo school they will just let me walk in and spar if i sign a weaver/

[AvPKenpo]

Yes there are a lot of schools that will let you come in and spar if you sign a waiver, but some won't. Are you in WA state?
Remember Kenpo is good, not everyone that is in Kenpo is. They may not be taking Kenpo for sparring, they may be in it for health, or something similar.
Michael

[Master of Blades]

You are one weird guy. About the whole distance thing. Any decent MA will teach you about that. You get the idea after a while anyway. You cant blame the art, you have to find what works for you. For example if your a kicker then you have to make sure they dont close the distance. If your a grappler or whatever then you have to close down your opponant. The whole mixing ideas is fantastic but why do it when you can just figure out what works for you. Blaming the art and saying it doesnt teach you this and that just doesnt work cuz you should be finding what works for you. And I agree that not everyone is good at what they do. Plus going and fighting people just to see if there art is good will tell you nothing. And also I guarrantee you will piss someone off by going in there and wanting to spar. Thats basically saying I wanna see if Im better then your school.

P.S - If I repeated anything then its cuz I didnt read the thread. Forgive me. Also I dont mean weird in a bad way. Im just finding the way you think confusing. :asian:

[KennethKu]

Originally posted by AvPKenpo



Ummm.......as my wife put it you only end up on the ground if you suck....


LOL. With all due respect to those who may disagree, I happen to share the view quite strongly. In real ife situations, it is necessary to be able to achieve "one strike one kill". Most MA experts are well trained to deliver just that. If anything, I would think most are over trained to deliver that. For example, which well trained MA expert cannot deliver a swift kick to the knee or the groin and instantly disable an attacker?

[Baoquan]

Qualifying what's already been qualified.....

I like so many others on this board, have been a bouncer - 2 years in. I had my share of go-to's - a lot more than one. I went to the ground once - because i tripped over a guy my partner had just knocked out with an overhand right.

:D

Cheers

Bao

[arnisador]

Originally posted by Baoquan

an overhand right.


This is an underrated technique!

[Baoquan]

originally posted by Arnisador

This is an underrated technique!

....and especially effective when you're 6'4 130+ kilos (about 300lbs) as my mate in question is.

The guy he hit didn't get up...for a long time. We ended up propping him up on a park bench across the street.

I also didn't get up for a while. I was so embarrased that (at that point) the only time i got sat on my arse was from tripping over an unconcsious boozer...:o

[sweeper]

Judo-kid fighhting un-trained people doesn't realy teach you much. I have sparred with a couple of freinds that don't practice anything and the outcome has always been me controling the fight because they have no sence of range and no footwork. I think you are better off fighting someone with at leaste basic boxing/wrestling knowledge.

[AvPKenpo]

Originally posted by Baoquan




The guy he hit didn't get up...for a long time. We ended up propping him up on a park bench across the street.



:rofl: Only in Austraila........and maybe parts of Texas.

[fissure]

Judo-kid , I have posted replys at several of your threads.At each new one I am becoming more baffled. With the belt levels you state in your profile, I'm assuming you have a year, maybe a year and a half experience.I have spent more time than this practising in boxing and submission wrestling. I don't even list these in my profile for the fact that, with this small amount of time invested, I don't feel I have the 'right' to claim these dissiplines as my own.Give yourself time.Find seasoned fighters to test your theories with. Make sure the people you fight with are accually 'fighters', and not into MA for the workout.Maybe I'm wrong, but it seems to me that you need someone to give you a little more guidence that you current instructors are providing.:asian:

[J-kid]

I have fought people in diffrent MA and yes they all claim to be able take me out with a fast knock out kick / punch etc , The truth

[J-kid]

The TRUTH is that non of the poeple could back up what they say . True they are closer to my age so i can match them in strength and size but it dosnt take much force to knock someone out since i have once,. TALk is Cheap and not many people can back theres up. Its easy online to say in a real fight your gonna do what you say but., there is to many posiblitys that and diffrent outcomes. For example. I was watching a sparing match between someone that dosnt do ma and someone that dos . (wal looking at MA schools) the person fighting the guy in ma didnt know much about fighting so i figured he would easyly be put down but it happens that he won. How maybe he got lucky maybe he didnt ,. this form seems to be Grappling vs Striking. I believe you have to have one to have the other,. If you truely call your self a fighter.. If i didnt know how to strike i wouldnt have won any of my fights because i had to get close to do take downs.
what i am trying to say is you cant really say that you can throw a punch and knock someone out in a real fight because you dont know. Not only that most people also can throw a lucky knock out punch so,. You can t really say like all you kenpo people are saying.

[eternalwhitebelt]

Judo- kid your post does not make sense. If I train consistently to nock someone out and then I do it when I am attacked then what else is there to say? This forum is not strikers against grapplers. Any good MA knows that you need to be adaptable to many things, including ranges. My last point is that you still seem to be confusing fighting with sparing.

[Kempojujutsu]

Originally posted by Judo-kid

I have fought people in diffrent MA and yes they all claim to be able take me out with a fast knock out kick / punch etc , The truth

Judo-kid
They telling you that they could knock you out. Is like calling a home run shot in baseball. If you do it, people will say he is great. If the guy strikes out the guy is arrogant and all wash up. In fact there have been several knock out in the UFC How about Pete Williams Knocking out Mark Colman with kick to the face. First time anyone knock someone with a kick in the UFC. UFC 2 forgot the guys names but jujutsu guy from swizerland fought this little kickboxer guy. The jujutsu guy was in side mount and threw about 5 elbows. But you could see clearly that the first one knock him out. UFC 32 BJ Penn knockout Caol Uno in matter of seconds. He also did this to Chris Thomas(I believe that was his name) in another fight. I could go on, but the thing is knockouts do happen even in the UFC.

Judo-kid good luck with your UFC training. I wish the UFC came around much sooner I would probably would be doing also.
Bob :D

[fissure]

Judo-kid, I have been reading your responces in many forims.I think the problem you are having is when you make statements in terms of absolutes.You say things like always and every.This type of termanology leaves little rom for debate. It comes across as 'all knowing' and hostile.This especially true when you debate MAists with FAR more experiance than you.Remember that because one guy in any particular stlye did some thing, or you had a certain result against him, it does'nt meen you now have the inside track on that system.
Good luck.

[Kirk]

Originally posted by Judo-kid

The TRUTH is that non of the poeple could back up what they say . TALK is Cheap and not many people can back theirs up. Its easy online to say in a real fight your gonna do what you say

what i am trying to say is you cant really say that you can throw a punch and knock someone out in a real fight because you dont know. You can t really say like all you kenpo people are saying.

Well tell ya what. Why don't you go to your local EPAK school.
Tell him you think that Kenpo, with it's use of forms, and it's
emphasis on striking, that you think it's ineffective. Tell him that
you've beaten black belts, and that you'd like to spar in his
school. Tell him you'll sign whatever waiver he wants you to sign,
because we both know .. suing for getting hurt is for wimps
anyways. See how well you fair against one of HIS black belts.

[fissure]

Kirk:
you've beaten black belts
I think he said his assumptions where bassed apon beating some very scary and deadly GREEN belts.;)

[Master of Blades]

LOL............god that made me laugh. Whoo. Anyway, where was I. Oh yeah. Judo Kid, not ALL Kenpo people may be right, but Im damn sure there are a few people who do styles you may find **** that will kick your ass from here to high heaven. It also seems to me that your intentions ford doing Martial Arts are completly screwed up. You may not mean to but your basically challenging loads of people here. And in answer to your statement the reason the guys with no experiance usally do better then you think is cuz there unpredictubal. You get used to your style and end up sort of half and half knowing what your opponant will do but when you come up against someone who hasnt done any fighting you tend to fall for things you wouldnt normally.

[Deathtrap101]

Originally posted by fissure

Kirk:
I think he said his assumptions where bassed apon beating some very scary and deadly GREEN belts.;)

Hey! those green belts are pretty scary....But i beat one :D(Im only yellow)

[J-kid]

Its true i do come across wrong, But i dont mean the stuff i am saying in a disrespectful manner most of the time. Its just how it is veiwed i usally am thinking this is just a statment and not a cocky half way comment, Consider this. - I really am not trying to insault anyone but i put some of my veiws in the open seeing what people will say. And last of all think of what i am saying both ways there is always a good and bad version if you take a comment. Its great so many of you have shared your thoughts,

Your friend Judo-Kid {PS} you gotta admit i got guts

[Jay Bell]

you gotta admit i got guts

Naw...that wasn't at all what I was thinking

[fissure]

you gotta admit i got guts
O.K. I'll give you that!
In my first post in response to another of your threads I tore into you a bit.Since then I have tempered my posts somewhat.I think you are coming to the understanding that your 'tone' may not be helping you.What I first saw as a young kid "mouthing off", I now think is someone honestly looking for answers.Again IMO, you need to find a mentor to help you find what you are looking for.This could be one of your current instructors, but it seems as though you may need to find someone with interests more inline with your own goals, only farther along thier path.
As to my last post, I find it very hard to pass up a chance at humor!:EG:

[7starmantis]

I really don't want to get in any type of argument, but I will say this one thing. If you are looking for a good "street fighting" skill that ecompases every aspect. Look no further than JKD. That is why Bruce Lee developed it. It is totaly rounded, and "perfect" for street combat.
However, I must say this...to truly understand MA, ( and I can't speak for anything except Chinese martial arts I guess) you cannot base it on combat. That is not the reason to learn or study any MA, I believe.

Just my humble opinion, I've studied many CMA and JKD.

7sm

[sweeper]

the only problem I have with JKD is the lack of emphasis on weapons.. well I guess that's more the Jun Fan aspect of it.. But than again neither does MMA

[Yari]

Originally posted by Judo-kid

Now my QUESTION why dont people try to inprove alot of martial arts

Give me your input this is not ment to afend anyone .

Maybe because after 30 - 40 years of pratice they suddenly understand the things they have been working on, and that they really work, they just needed time to understand.

But I could be wrong since I've only worked on it for a little bit over 20 years...


/Yari

[Master of Blades]

I will say you got guts, but you wanna watch it cuz the way your going your guts are gonna get kicked in by those scary "black" belts you been chatting about! :D