taekwondo vs anything

[xayvong]

for a while, I've wanted to know how does taekwondo do against another
martial art so answer back

[Touch Of Death]

TKD in and of itself is nothing but a way of thinking. It is up to the individual practioner to match his skills to any given environment and opponent. In short the style won't fail you, but your application may. Your fitness level may also play a role. Don't ya think?
Sean

[AceHBK]

TKD in and of itself is nothing but a way of thinking. It is up to the individual practioner to match his skills to any given environment and opponent. In short the style won't fail you, but your application may. Your fitness level may also play a role. Don't ya think?
Sean

Funny but true.

How many TKD artists enter open tournaments?
Do u only enter TKD tournaments?
Why?

[Zepp]

xayvong, I think this is the thread you're looking for: http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=16141. :D

By the way, welcome to the board.

[Touch Of Death]

Welcome to the board!!! as well.
Sean

[Miles]

I agree with TOD, any martial art, Taekwondo included, is only as good as the practitioner. A laser guided rocket is no good if your delivery system is a slingshot.

Miles

[Gemini]

A laser guided rocket is no good if your delivery system is a slingshot.
I'm gonna have to borrow that. :uhyeah:

[terryl965]

First Welcome and to answer your question it is the fighter not necesary the Art.
Terry

[xayvong]

First of all, hi, but only half the people on this thread answord my question, but once I did fight against a muay thai fighter, and a karate guy. The guy in karate didn't seem like he knew what he was doing. But the muay thai guy was tough!!!! But we never finished the fight, and it was a complete accident too.

[terryl965]

First of all, hi, but only half the people on this thread answord my question, but once I did fight against a muay thai fighter, and a karate guy. The guy in karate didn't seem like he knew what he was doing. But the muay thai guy was tough!!!! But we never finished the fight, and it was a complete accident too.

I believe most have answered your question it is not really the style it depends on the fighter, aftre 40+ years I've seen alot of different styleand the best fihgter have won almost all the matches.

If you have another to ask the same question maybe the answers would be different.
Terry

[Touch Of Death]

I've been thinking about the answer to this question for the last few days. The art does play a role in that you are conditioning yourself to do something that is either sport based or self defense based. This comes from instruction and personal goals. It is worth considering that sport TKD may not be UFC ready.
Sean

[Kuk Sa Nim]

Greetings all,

I agree on principle with most answers as far as it is ultimately the individual that makes the art, and not the other way around, BUT...and that's a big "what if" we're talking about.

The question was TKD vs Anything. This question deserves a more serious evaluation, than it is up to the individual to properly apply the techniques of the art. As I said, in principle, that makes sense, but the other side of the equation is: “What does the art ACTUALLY offer in terms of tools and philosophy”.

Let me start by saying that I have been involved with TKD since 1972. I have competed in open tournaments, TKD tournaments, full contact fighting, military combat, and more than my share of street fights. I don't mean to ruffle any feathers here, but as a general rule of thumb, traditional, and modern "sport" TKD only offers certain high level tools. Yes, even old school.

As for philosophy, it is supposed to be a very balanced style, (based on the Umm/Yang concept) when in reality, it is much more of a hard, linear style, with a focus on kicking techniques. Don’t get me wrong, I love my kicks, and have been very successful applying them against all comers, ranging from boxers, wrestlers, karate, kung fu, judo/jujitsu and a whole lot more. But, as noted earlier, I believe at the end of the day, I was successful, not because the tools that TKD gave, but more on my ability to adapt a variety of other tools into my fighting repertoire. Hence making my kicks work better.

Let's examine for a second the main tools that TKD generally offers:

Footwork - Very high level
Conditioning - High level (depending on the school)
Kicking - VERY high level skills
Low kicking - Only in some schools, but usually discouraged, and considered illegal
Classic MA Hand techniques - Adequate
Boxing type Hand techniques - Sorely lacking
Trapping - Almost nil
Joint locks - not really, unless HKD is incorporated
Take downs and throws - basic skills, not very sophisticated
Ground fighting - not really, unless HKD is incorporated, and then that is still lacking sophistication
Weapons - Not really, unless HKD (or another art that uses weapons) is incorporated. Usually some staff, sword or cane. Sometimes you'll find knife and/or middle sticks
Sparring - LOTS of stand up, long range sparring, but seriously lacking closer combat.

There becomes a deficit as the range changes from a longer range (kicking range) to closer ranges.

I’m sure there are many more tools involved, but these are the main ones that just jump out in relation to fighting skills.

So, it does fall on the individual to interpret the philosophy or the art and apply it's tools, but if the situation requires tools that are not normally part of the training, and certainly a more sophisticated level, the student is left to "figure it out", which may not always be successful. Not very wise for life and death self defense. The difference between theory and reality could mean life and death.

Again, I hope I didn't step on anyone's toes. I'm just expressing my views, based on my personal experiences.

With brotherhood,
Grand Master De Alba

If you would like to view some video clips pitting TKD vs other arts, check out:



TKD vs MMA
http://www.bullshido.net/gallery/showphoto.php/photo/511/cat/523

TKD vs Kyokushinkai
http://www.bullshido.net/gallery/showphoto.php/photo/880/cat/523/limit/recent

Shaolin vs TKD
http://www.bullshido.net/gallery/showphoto.php/photo/791/cat/523

Muay Thai vs TKD
http://www.bullshido.net/gallery/showphoto.php/photo/512/cat/523

[jfarnsworth]

How many TKD artists enter open tournaments?
I've seen many.


Do u only enter TKD tournaments?
My first martial arts instructor had us enter in as many tournaments as we could.

Why?
Tournaments are a test of skill. Getting involved in as many as you can will only help to improve your abilities. If you start while being a white belt and continue on through black you will gain insight in your training, weak areas, strengths, plus you find that your not as good as you think you are.

[Shu2jack]

Footwork - Very high level
Conditioning - High level (depending on the school)
Kicking - VERY high level skills
Low kicking - Only in some schools, but usually discouraged, and considered illegal
Classic MA Hand techniques - Adequate
Boxing type Hand techniques - Sorely lacking
Trapping - Almost nil
Joint locks - not really, unless HKD is incorporated
Take downs and throws - basic skills, not very sophisticated
Ground fighting - not really, unless HKD is incorporated, and then that is still lacking sophistication
Weapons - Not really, unless HKD (or another art that uses weapons) is incorporated. Usually some staff, sword or cane. Sometimes you'll find knife and/or middle sticks
Sparring - LOTS of stand up, long range sparring, but seriously lacking closer combat.


What is the difference between "classic" MA hand techniques and boxing type hand techniques? Outside the chambering of strikes to practice the mechanics I mean

Also, your video links didn't work for me. Besides that, no offense meant, I wouldn't use Bullshido.net as a source of information. While I do like, and tend to agree with, their philosophy to the martial arts, their site is heavily biased and closed-minded.

[terryl965]

We do all type of tournaments from Olympic to point to continues point sparring. You have to be well rounded now adays.
terry

[evenflow1121]

If you adapt a closed quarter fighting into it, it can be very effective. Ultimately, it is the individual and not the style. Just about any style can be taught in atleast two ways, self defense or tourney or a combination of both. If you are strictly tourney no matter what style chances are you are lacking in self defense. I have seen some really good TKD practitioners in my time, but they were taught the style primarily for self defense. They are very smart and talented fighters and can hold their own with just about anyone.

[Kuk Sa Nim]

What is the difference between "classic" MA hand techniques and boxing type hand techniques? Outside the chambering of strikes to practice the mechanics I mean

Also, your video links didn't work for me. Besides that, no offense meant, I wouldn't use Bullshido.net as a source of information. While I do like, and tend to agree with, their philosophy to the martial arts, their site is heavily biased and closed-minded.

OK, I think I can see where you are going. Boxing techniques are very similar to classical MA hand techniques (IE: Reverse Punch, Back Fist, and even Ridge Hand and Knife Hand strikes). But other classical MA hand movements such as open hand/ripping/tearing techniques (Tiger Claw, Spear Hand and Finger Jabs, etc) are obviously different and not generally part of Boxing. On the flip side, if you're thinking that Boxing is only about a Jab, Cross, Hook and Uppercut, that's not it at all. The whole spectrum of Boxing such as the footwork, slipping, parrying, bobbing and weaving, etc. are not a part of classical MA hand tech. Those are done in MA combinations are usually from a wider type stance, whereas, Boxing moves in very different fashion. Hands up, elbows in are demanded to protect the face and ribs, which is really not the case w/ TKD matches, where the hands are down, to block kicks, and “the face is not to be punched”.

This is very apparent to someone who has really boxed. Just as the fluidity and degree of power and contact of TKD kicks really surprises many non-martial artists (I won't call them boxers, or even streetfighters, just non-martial artists). The same can be said for the unique fluidity, power and level of contact that boxing has in contrast to classical MA moves. They are very different. Now can people adapt and marry both worlds? Yes they can, and yes they have. The difference as was noted in the original answer is the level of sophistication.

For example, there is no questioning the power of a reverse punch. This can be measured with the breaking of boards or bricks. A proper right cross is something to be respected, and is certainly capable of breaking bricks and boards. But as one famous martial artist once said: "Boards don't hit back".

One can also compare the average TKD person's reverse punch with say a Kyokushinkai person, and you'll see the difference in the level of sophistication. If you have ever sparred a good Kyokushinkai person, you (and your ribs) know exactly what I'm talking about. They just take the move to another lever where it is a bread and butter move. The same can be said with the way a good TKD person would apply their bread and butter move such as a round house. Pitted against other stylist that don't really use it, and it's night and day. You blink and you'll get kicked seven times by the TKD guy. This is why I was trying outline the strengths and shortcomings of the tools involved. That's all.

Sorry for the problem with the links and using bullshido. That was simply one site that had a lot of clips in one place. Nothing to do with the site's philosophy, just the strength of what the clips presented. Obviously, they are not definitive examples of TKD vs anything, but it is a very interesting glimpse. Maybe trying a different browser will allow you to see the clips, or truthfully, they are on several other sites, just not all in one convenient place.

FWIW, the TKD guys are handled (IE: KO’ed) by the MMA guy and the first Kyokushinkai guy, but resort to different tactics (not classical TKD, and no real kicking) with the second fighter. As for the others, the TKD vs Shaolin is a fun clip with the TKD person dazzling the opponent (in Shaolin looking uniform) with a barrage of kicking combos, only to be responded in kind by the Kung Fu person. And to cap it all off, the TKD person KO's the Muay Thai fighter in a full contact fight with gloves and in a ring. BUT, he does it with a spinning backfist. I found them all to be interesting, if nothing else.

With brotherhood,
Grand Master De Alba

[xayvong]

hey, in case some of you don't know the people are thinking of taking taekwondo off the olympics because of lack of interest in people. And now the karate assosiation is saying that karate should be an olympic event. the olympic assosiation is considering the loss, and unfortunetly, aren't considering it a big loss. But there still taking the opinion of the taekwondo wtf assosiation.

[Marginal]

So, it does fall on the individual to interpret the philosophy or the art and apply it's tools, but if the situation requires tools that are not normally part of the training, and certainly a more sophisticated level, the student is left to "figure it out", which may not always be successful. Not very wise for life and death self defense.

I wasn't aware ring sports were typical of life or death situations. Meaning, that vs a gun someone trained to throw elbow strikes, low line kicks, wave a sword around, or throw jabs probably isn't going to fare any better in such a situation. Against a guy on the highway who cuts in front of you and slams on his brakes to teach you a lesson over some perceived slight, hand to hand training's not going to help you either.

It's more important IMO to be aware of just what your training's getting you, and training to meet those goals. Life and death situations tends to imply a need for situational awareness and skillsets most directly relevant to the life or death situations you're likely to encounter.

Personally, I rate how I'd fare in a sparring match vs a Shaolin Monk very low on the life or death scale.

[cali_tkdbruin]

If it goes down to the ground, in general we Taekwondoists are definately at a disadvantage. Why? We're a stand up fighting style. That's why it's good to cross-train. BJJ is a good art when it goes down to the ground, IMHO.

There's really no one art that's the best of the best, each has its benefits and disadvantages.

[xayvong]

but why go to another art when you haven't masterd the other one yet? Blackbelt isn't the end, it's a new begining, plus, were would you find the time to do both if your dedicated to one enough. oh yeah, and if you ever get to the ground get up as fast as you can, trust me, it works well. ( unless he/she has you in an armbar or something.)

[Last Fearner]

With all the threads, and bar room talk, about "this vs that," I think most experts agree that there is no inherent advantage attributed to any name applied to any variation of self defense training.

The first question should be, "is each technique you are using effective?" In other words, will the strike cause injury, break bones, or knock someone out? Will the throw take someone to the ground, and will the hold control the attacker, cause pain, and/or injury? This is where you find out if the "Art" or skills of self defense you are learning actually do work.

If the answer is yes, then the second question is, "are you physically fit, and skilled enough to perform the technique properly?" Some people possess the knowledge of what is good self defense, and can even teach it to others, but physical limitations, lack of coordination, or mental focus can prevent them from performing the skills correctly. This is an issue of the individual lacking, and not the art.

The final question is, "do you possess the knowledge, skill, and experience to execute your techniques with a superior strategy, timing, range, and acuracy that will prevail over your opponent?" This again, is not the "Art" but the abilities of the practitioner. You have knowledge, you have power, you have the ability to perform, but are you able to out maneuver your attacker? Speed, conditioning, and power are helpful, but faster, and stronger opponents have lost to smarter fighters.

In Taekwondo, I have been taught to strike with a number of weapons (open hand, closed hand, elbow, knee, foot, head, etc.), at long range and close range (within an inch), standing, sitting, or laying down, with power, precision, and timing. I study and teach a variety of take-downs and throws (leg grappling, foot and leg sweeps, leg reaps, hip throws and flips). In Taekwondo, I have also studied how to grapple on the ground, apply holds, pressure points, gouges, and chokes. In addition, I have trained to counter any of the above moves if they are applied to me.

My Taekwondo training is not "cross-training" and it is not "mixed martial art." It is "complete" Taekwondo because it includes the kicking of Taekyon, the hand and foot self defense of Subak, the coordinated energy and application of Hapkido, the pressure points and joint locks of Hoshinsul, the throws and grappling of Yudo, the breaking power of kyukpa, the fluency of poomsae, and the timing and acuracy of one-steps, and the variety, spontenaety, and conditioning of Jayu Gyorugi. Simply put, Taekwondo should include striking, throwing, and holding in any variation, along with counter-measures.

I am not at a loss if the fight goes to the ground, and I do not believe that any Taekwondoist should be. If someone attempts to grab my leg, tie up in wrestling, or kick at my knees and legs, I have counters that will make them regret their actions. If you desire this balance in your training, but do not yet have it, then I recommend you seek it out. There is nothing that anyone, in any other system of Martial Art education can do that a Taekwondoist can not do, if that Taekwondoist does not limit their training. If I have trained hard, and fight smart, there is no reason I should lose except through my own mistakes (and of course - I don't make mistakes. :rolleyes: )

That's my perspective, and I'm stikin' to it! :ultracool (<< "ultra cool" - lol)
Chief Master Eisenhart

[xayvong]

Right on. my gym is pure taekwondo too ( and some hapikido) I agree with your perspective view on the subject.