Practicing techniques??

[pineapple head]

Please tell me something , its very hard to even think about doing any kind of technique in sparring , so what chance have you got in a real fight!!
Are we better to spend our time in a boxing ring?

[Sigung86]

Originally posted by pineapple head

Please tell me something , its very hard to even think about doing any kind of technique in sparring , so what chance have you got in a real fight!!
Are we better to spend our time in a boxing ring?

Pineapple ... Little Brother! You will get out of practice what you put in it.

:D

Dan

[Rainman]

Originally posted by pineapple head

Please tell me something , its very hard to even think about doing any kind of technique in sparring , so what chance have you got in a real fight!!
Are we better to spend our time in a boxing ring?


Beem me up Scotty:rolleyes:

[ProfessorKenpo]

Originally posted by pineapple head

Please tell me something , its very hard to even think about doing any kind of technique in sparring , so what chance have you got in a real fight!!
Are we better to spend our time in a boxing ring?

My suggestion is getting to class more often and quit talking about it. I use techniques all the time and it didn't come easy making them work, but geez, that's what practice is for huh?

Have a great Kenpo day

Clyde

[ikenpo]

Originally posted by ProfessorKenpo



I use techniques all the time and it didn't come easy making them work.....
Have a great Kenpo day

Clyde

Were there any (techniques) that worked better than others (for you) specifically? Which (have you found) present an opportunity more often than others in your sparring?

Are the techniques you execute primarily from the beginner, intermediate or advanced charts? and how much of the actual technique do you actually get off?

Finally, did you get any insight from your instructor on this or did you just "get to class more often and quit talking about it..."


jb:asian:

[ProfessorKenpo]

Originally posted by jbkenpo



Were there any (techniques) that worked better than others (for you) specifically? Which (have you found) present an opportunity more often than others in your sparring?

Are the techniques you execute primarily from the beginner, intermediate or advanced charts? and how much of the actual technique do you actually get off?

Finally, did you get any insight from your instructor on this or did you just "get to class more often and quit talking about it..."


jb:asian:

Yes, there are techniques that work better than others while sparring and allows minimal devastation. Thundering Hammers, Dance of Death, Sleeper (I know, family related) work just about every time. Crossing Talon off a right backnuckle works wonders as well. the list goes on but those are the easy ones.

Both and all of the above from the latter question.


Have a great Kenpo day

Clyde

[ikenpo]

Originally posted by ProfessorKenpo



Yes, there are techniques that work better than others while sparring and allows minimal devastation. Thundering Hammers, Dance of Death, Sleeper (I know, family related) work just about every time. Crossing Talon off a right backnuckle works wonders as well. the list goes on but those are the easy ones.

Both and all of the above from the latter question.


Have a great Kenpo day

Clyde

Good stuff,

I've actually had the sleeper done to me while sparring. It came out of no where and I said, "night, night"....It was an enlightening experience.

jb:asian:

[satans.barber]

Firstly, sparring != real fight, so there's no much point in directly comparing the two, secondly, it depends who this 'real fight' is against doesn't it...

If you 'spar' or 'fight' against another martial artist then they'll be covered up and will block a lot of what you throw, but if you have a 'real fight' against some bloke in a pub or whatever he's likely to just throw committed and exaggerated punches and kicks that are a lot easier to work techniques off, especially if he's drunk!

So, IMO, whilst you're never going to get all of a technique off in sparring it's even more, not less likely that you will be able to in the street.

Having said that, you should take the ideas and principles from the techniques and build that into something that enables you to fight dynamically against a street opponent, adapting to them and moving with them, rather than getting into the 'hey, he's coming in with a left hook, here I go with my deadly Shielding Hammer moment...' frame of mind.

You might get a combination out of one technique off, and maybe graft it into something else or block and then throw a little combination out of the middle of another technique, but I shouldn't think you'll get the whole thing off.

That's talking about people facing each other though, if they grab you and give you a point of contact to work with then I don't see any reason why you can't pull off Lone Kimono or Crossing Talon etc. in their entirities if you wish.

Ian.

[kenpo3631]

Pick up Lee Wedlake's Further Insights into Kenpo: The Collective Articles of Lee Wedlake Jr. (shameless plug);) It addresses this issue in one of the articles:asian:

[jeffkyle]

Originally posted by ProfessorKenpo



Yes, there are techniques that work better than others while sparring and allows minimal devastation. Thundering Hammers, Dance of Death, Sleeper (I know, family related) work just about every time. Crossing Talon off a right backnuckle works wonders as well. the list goes on but those are the easy ones.

Both and all of the above from the latter question.


Have a great Kenpo day

Clyde


Swinging Pendelum, Hugging Pendelum, Retreating Pendelum (more family related ;) ) work good as sparring applications as well.

[ikenpo]

Originally posted by jeffkyle




Swinging Pendelum, Hugging Pendelum, Retreating Pendelum (more family related ;) ) work good as sparring applications as well.

Are you just referring to the downward blocking/parrying motion at the beginning of those techniques? I assume so, because you clearly can't attack the legs (knees) with any level of safety if your working in a sparring environment, and that's the next major strike.

Also on retreating pendelum, while sparring do you actually step back into a twist stance or do you shuffle out of range (only asking about this within a committed sparring environment)?

jb :asian:

[ikenpo]

Originally posted by kenpo3631

Pick up Lee Wedlake's Further Insights into Kenpo: The Collective Articles of Lee Wedlake Jr. (shameless plug);) It addresses this issue in one of the articles:asian:

Can you give us a synopsis of what it says on this topic or do we have to "buy the book"....

jb:asian:

p.s. Also does it say which magazine, month & year the article originally appeared in? I may have it already.

[ikenpo]

Firstly, sparring != real fight, so there's no much point in directly comparing the two, secondly, it depends who this 'real fight' is against doesn't it...

I disagree, depending on how close you get your sparring to a stage of "aliveness" it can emulate a "fighting" environment. That's like saying there is no point in having a person throw a punch at you during practice because its not a "real" punch so there's no point in directly comparing the two:confused: very odd..


If you 'spar' or 'fight' against another martial artist then they'll be covered up and will block a lot of what you throw, but if you have a 'real fight' against some bloke in a pub or whatever he's likely to just throw committed and exaggerated punches and kicks that are a lot easier to work techniques off, especially if he's drunk!

I agree with the last part of this comment, but assuming a person that is "drunk" won't clean your clock is not smart.


So, IMO, whilst you're never going to get all of a technique off in sparring it's even more, not less likely that you will be able to in the street.

But there are people who are saying "they actually have DONE..." not they think so that's who we are asking...but I know where your coming and agree with much of your position.


jb:asian:

[jeffkyle]

Originally posted by jbkenpo



Are you just referring to the downward blocking/parrying motion at the beginning of those techniques? I assume so, because you clearly can't attack the legs (knees) with any level of safety if your working in a sparring environment, and that's the next major strike.

Also on retreating pendelum, while sparring do you actually step back into a twist stance or do you shuffle out of range (only asking about this within a committed sparring environment)?

jb :asian:


You execute the kick, but it is more of a check/buckle to the back of the leg simply to keep your opponent's height zone checked, and keep them off balance as well.


If you are trying to do retreating pendelum you would step back into the twist, it may not be easy but it is possible. If you shuffled back instead you would be doing hugging pendelum, right?

[kenpo3631]

p.s. Also does it say which magazine, month & year the article originally appeared in? I may have it already.

Yes it does....:-)

[ikenpo]

Originally posted by kenpo3631



Yes it does....:-)

You are a shewd devil aren't you...:mst:


:rofl:


jb:asian:

[kenpo3631]

When I get a chance I'll post the mag and the date of the article for you....

[satans.barber]

Originally posted by jbkenpo
I disagree, depending on how close you get your sparring to a stage of "aliveness" it can emulate a "fighting" environment. That's like saying there is no point in having a person throw a punch at you during practice because its not a "real" punch so there's no point in directly comparing the two very odd..


The thing is, if you're sparring against people it's usully going to be people you know, your friends, so you're not usually going to throw attacks with the intention of doing vast amounts of damage. This is going to alter the whole way you move, and coupled with the lack of adrenalyn (in a normal class session, rather than a competition or whatever) and a lack of urgency that comes from being in no real danger, the two just become very different entities.

You can compare them yes, but other that A versus B I think the similarities are that few that there's little to be gained from it, as I said before.

This doesn't mean that sparring isn't good practice for the street, of course it is, but that's different from saying 'if I can't get technique X off in sparring how can I hope to in the street' which was what the post was about.

If you practice golf at a driving range, and you can't hit out of it with a 5 iron, it's pretty fair to say you won't be able to hit that well with a 5 iron on the fairway either, because the swing is pretty much identical. I just don't think you can draw a similar parallel between using sparring as practice for a street fight.

Maybe that's clearer...ugh, i can't believe I used a golf analogy. I'm turning into my father :(



I agree with the last part of this comment, but assuming a person that is "drunk" won't clean your clock is not smart.

I never said they couldn't, I said that the movements of a drunk are more exaggerated and committed, which makes it easier to pull off a technique. The reason for this is that when people attack in technique practice they usually use slower and exaggerated moves, not unlike that of a drunk, and so it's what most people are used to.



But there are people who are saying "they actually have DONE..." not they think so that's who we are asking...but I know where your coming and agree with much of your position.

Well whenever a 'have you ever pulled off your kenpo in the street?' style thread (I've started them myself in the past) gets going the general consensus is that people coped, but didn't get a full technique off. I've only read 2 or 3 replies where people said 'yes, he did this and so i used so and so technique', I think the one that comes to mind was a guy in a mental ward who used raining lance against a screwdriver, can't think of any others.

Ian.

[pineapple head]

Originally posted by ProfessorKenpo



My suggestion is getting to class more often and quit talking about it. I use techniques all the time and it didn't come easy making them work, but geez, that's what practice is for huh?

Have a great Kenpo day

Clyde

Clyde thaks for your advice but i train as much as my life allows me to. I spend my time "talking about it "so that i can gain some experience from you guys.
Thanks anyway.

[WilliamTLear]

Originally posted by pineapple head



Clyde thaks for your advice but i train as much as my life allows me to. I spend my time "talking about it "so that i can gain some experience from you guys.
Thanks anyway.

I don't see how you can gain expereince from asking questions on a message board. I know that you can get advice, and obtain some useful information, but expereince? Don't you have to live it to experience it?

Curious...

[pineapple head]

Originally posted by WilliamTLear



I don't see how you can gain expereince from asking questions on a message board. I know that you can get advice, and obtain some useful information, but expereince? Don't you have to live it to experience it?

Curious...
:) True enough ....but i think you know what i mean.
Im trying as much as i can to live it.
Thanks.

[kenpo3631]

Here is that information...

Tournament Tag vs. Street Survival byLee Wedlake Jr.

Published in Inside Kung Fu Magazine February 1985:asian:

[ProfessorKenpo]

Originally posted by pineapple head



Clyde thaks for your advice but i train as much as my life allows me to. I spend my time "talking about it "so that i can gain some experience from you guys.
Thanks anyway.

Being as you don't have your experience listed on the profile (big hint to do so), I don't know what level you're working from so it's kinda hard to give you any advice other than what I did, at least your'e looking in the right direction.

Have a great Kenpo day

Clyde

[WilliamTLear]

Originally posted by pineapple head


:) True enough ....but i think you know what i mean.
Im trying as much as i can to live it.
Thanks.

How often do you train? I usually get to Bryan Hawkins Kenpo Studio three times a week (Teusday, Thursday, & Saturday), not to mention a Sunday morning workout with Angelo Collado in the Park.

:asian:

[pineapple head]

Well...with work , the kids and my beloved i manage 2 times per week.
I have a gym at work , which when i can i do something each morning.
You said you train in the park. Do people tend to watch you train and want to know more?:)

[WilliamTLear]

Originally posted by pineapple head

Well...with work , the kids and my beloved i manage 2 times per week.
I have a gym at work , which when i can i do something each morning.
You said you train in the park. Do people tend to watch you train and want to know more?:)

It is a pretty secluded park, but yes people do have a tendency to watch and inquire from time to time. I enjoy working out in the park because it offers a significant change of environment. Could you imagine people sliding all over the wet grass while trying to hit that perfect stance... LOL

It's good that you get to work out at least two times a week... having a large space to work out in on your own time is always a plus too.

How long have you been studying Kenpo? What is your goal in Kenpo?

Until Later,
Billy

[jeffkyle]

Originally posted by WilliamTLear



How often do you train? I usually get to Bryan Hawkins Kenpo Studio three times a week (Teusday, Thursday, & Saturday), not to mention a Sunday morning workout with Angelo Collado in the Park.

:asian:


Those Sunday workouts sound cool! I wish i was alot closer so i could come workout with you guys! :)

[pineapple head]

Originally posted by WilliamTLear



It is a pretty secluded park, but yes people do have a tendency to watch and inquire from time to time. I enjoy working out in the park because it offers a significant change of environment. Could you imagine people sliding all over the wet grass while trying to hit that perfect stance... LOL

It's good that you get to work out at least two times a week... having a large space to work out in on your own time is always a plus too.

How long have you been studying Kenpo? What is your goal in Kenpo?

Until Later,
Billy

Well , ive been in Kenpo (AKKI) for 2 and a half years now.
My goal ...to do the best i can possible to learn this fascinating art.
I find this forum really useful for tips and advice.

[Testdummy]

In a real fight were the person doesn't know what to do it makes the chances higher to use the move because they don't know that it is coming. Then when you are out in the streets, you really don't care how much you hurt the person coming after you like you do in class. Then when you are in class your parter knows what you can do.;)

[sammy3170]

Originally posted by pineapple head

Please tell me something , its very hard to even think about doing any kind of technique in sparring , so what chance have you got in a real fight!!
Are we better to spend our time in a boxing ring?


Sparring may give you some training in ranges and what can and cannot be used at various ranges however it in no way simulates a real life encounter. Have you ever seen two guys at a pub(bar) take a stance at bounce around trying to hit each other. If a practice partner throws an all out technique at you during regular training and using control the technique works then if the same happens on the street and you execute the technique at full power and speed then you can be pretty sure you will do ok. You only have to worry about the adrenal dump then and hopefully you don't turn in to a flinching, dribbling mess.

Just some thoughts
Cheers
Sammy

[Les]

Originally posted by Testdummy

Then when you are out in the streets, you really don't care how much you hurt the person coming after you like you do in class.

Alex,

Even out in the street you SHOULD care how much damage you do.

We are legally and morally obliged to only use enough force to stop the attack.

And in this day and age, you don't need the lawsuit either.

Les

[KenpoDave]

Originally posted by ProfessorKenpo



My suggestion is getting to class more often and quit talking about it. I use techniques all the time and it didn't come easy making them work, but geez, that's what practice is for huh?

Have a great Kenpo day

Clyde

I asked this question to Clyde a number or years back, when he was only A5thDeg. He mentioned that he had been using techniques in freestyle sparring and it was getting easier to pull them off.

Now he uses them all the time. And it did not come easy, as I am discovering. But the big discovery is this...I never pulled them off in freestyle until I began to TRY to pull them off in freestyle.

:asian:
Dave