Has anyone knocked someone out with their chi?

[Jesse]

My instructor told me last lesson that he could consentrate his chi so well that he could hold his hands beside someone's head and not touch them at all. Holding it about 3 inches away and he was able to knock the person out.

I kind of find this hard to believe and was wondering if anyone else has heard of this. I would like to know before I challange him to do it to myself.

[Shirt Ripper]

My instructor told me last lesson that he could consentrate his chi so well that he could hold his hands beside someone's head and not touch them at all. Holding it about 3 inches away and he was able to knock the person out.

:bs:

[OnlyAnEgg]

While I do not believe in the channeling of chi in this fashion, there are several threads where others have discussed this very topic.

I suggest:
http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=26367
http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=30096
http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=13613
and
http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=11594
just to point out a few.

egg

[kroh]

I would be very skepticle of something like this. If you are going to challenge him to prove his claim, you should consider two things. Will challenging him to do this put you in a bad position within the training hall ("How dare he question my authoriTE'!?!")? The other thing to consider is whether or not you can drill one of your clasmates with the Honor of being knocked out by this glorious rsplendant fist (Thank you sir,...can you demonstrate it on....HIM!?!)?

Good Luck
Regards,
Walt

[KenpoTess]

Assist Admin Note:
Thread moved from Meet n' Greet to General Martial Arts.

Please Keep discussion Civil. :)

Thanks,

~Tess
-MT Assist. Admin

[ppko]

My instructor told me last lesson that he could consentrate his chi so well that he could hold his hands beside someone's head and not touch them at all. Holding it about 3 inches away and he was able to knock the person out.

I kind of find this hard to believe and was wondering if anyone else has heard of this. I would like to know before I challange him to do it to myself.beings you don't believe ask him to do this to you this will be good for the board post your results

[OnlyAnEgg]

beings you don't believe ask him to do this to you this will be good for the board post your results

And watch how you hold your toes.

[arnisador]

My instructor told me last lesson that he could consentrate his chi so well that he could hold his hands beside someone's head and not touch them at all. Holding it about 3 inches away and he was able to knock the person out.

He is either attempting to fool you, or has succeeded in fooling himself. AVOID.

I definitely recommend that you look at the George Dillman No-Touch KO threads as suggested in OnlyAnEgg's post. I've seen these done in front of me. It's stage magic.

[Kenpodoc]

I find that when I try to seduce my wife, my chi is so powerful that she immediately falls into a deep sleep.:shrug:

Jeffhttp://www.martialtalk.com/forum/images/icons/icon7.gif

[Kenpodoc]

My instructor told me last lesson that he could consentrate his chi so well that he could hold his hands beside someone's head and not touch them at all. Holding it about 3 inches away and he was able to knock the person out.

I kind of find this hard to believe and was wondering if anyone else has heard of this. I would like to know before I challange him to do it to myself.As Arnisidor says "It's stage magic."

Jeff

[kroh]

I find that when I try to seduce my wife, my chi is so powerful that she immediately falls into a deep sleep.:shrug:

Jeffhttp://www.martialtalk.com/forum/images/icons/icon7.gif

[note-to-self]threads littered with smileys should NOT be read while drinking coffee[/note-to-self]

Ahem....back to the topic at hand...

...anyone got a towel?
Regards,
Walt

[Jesse]

I was thinking "stage magic" also thats why I was going to ask his to try it on me.

I never thought about it after about him getting alittle P.O'ed at me for "challenging" him. Now I don't want to get pinned in his bad books cause then he'll use me as his personal training bag.

[Xue Sheng]

There is a similar discussion going on here

http://martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=30096 (http://martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=30096)

And let me add, although I believe in internal Qi, I do not believe that someone is capable of knocking me out without touching me, with just Qi alone.

And if someone had a level of Qi training even remotely approaching this, I would expect he/she would be either a Shaolin Monk (full time not 7 year monk) or a Taoist priest of either the Quanzhen sect or Zhengyi sect. People that have devoted their life (24/7/365) to such studies not part of it.

Qi development is HARD, and very few, myself included have the determination to pursue it to great levels.

If I had more time I would relate a story to you that was told to me (and everyone else in the class) by Yang Jwing Ming about a supposed Qi master he asked to leave his school.

[deadhand31]

When someone makes a claim like this, my internal B.S. detector goes off. I have a few questions.

1. Is he planning on using this "chi technique" to help with training?

2. When did he make this claim? Was it before or after you signed up with him?

3. Have you seen it done it yet, or was it done on you? If it was done, which way did the person fall, forwards, or backwards?

[Jesse]

When someone makes a claim like this, my internal B.S. detector goes off. I have a few questions.

1. Is he planning on using this "chi technique" to help with training?

2. When did he make this claim? Was it before or after you signed up with him?

3. Have you seen it done it yet, or was it done on you? If it was done, which way did the person fall, forwards, or backwards?

It I haven't seen him do it thats why i was going to ask him to do it on me. He said it to the whole class when we were doing a chi exercise. And no it wasn't a B.S line to try and get us to join. I had already joined.

[kenpojujitsu]

It is "stage magic" and hype.
Either the assistant pretends to be knocked out in a pre-arranged skit.
Or, the uke is so overcome by anxiety and has been fooled so badly, they just pass out from the trick that thier mind played on thier body. Kind of the same way you see people on the Benny Hinn show fall down when blows on them.

I didn't read all the threads so I may be repeating a story. But Dillman failed once to knock someone out like this. He claimed it was because, unknown to him, the person executed a counter move by either pressing his big toe into the ground or holding his toungue against the roof of his mouth, thus foiling the demonstration to make him look bad.

I would like to see the Amazing Randy take on Mr. Dilliman or any other of these no touch knockout guys on one of his debunking shows and see what happens. I can guarantee you they will refuse the challenge.

[arnisador]

It is "stage magic" and hype.
Either the assistant pretends to be knocked out in a pre-arranged skit.
Or, the uke is so overcome by anxiety and has been fooled so badly, they just pass out from the trick that thier mind played on thier body.

Or the social pressure to not embarrass their instructor. I believe that that's a likely explanation, and I refer to these as 'social pressure knockouts' myself. I don't think it's generally mesmerism, just simple human psychology.


I didn't read all the threads so I may be repeating a story. But Dillman failed once to knock someone out like this. He claimed it was because, unknown to him, the person executed a counter move by either pressing his big toe into the ground or holding his toungue against the roof of his mouth, thus foiling the demonstration

I saw precisely this occur (toe positioning) at a George Dillman weekend camp in Indianapolis several years back.


I would like to see the Amazing Randy take on Mr. Dilliman or any other of these no touch knockout guys on one of his debunking shows and see what happens.

Yes, until the Amazing Randi signs off on it, I won't buy it!

[Jagermeister]

There's a thread "1 inch punch" in Wing Chun or something like that. A link to a video is in there with some kind of David Blaine guy doing a variation of the no touch knockout. Kind of funny to watch. It's all BS, though.

[Zepp]

Hi Jesse,

Considering what you've just told us about your instructor, I think you may want to take a look at some other martial arts schools in your area.

[Brian R. VanCise]

I liken it to someone hypnotizing somebody else. The person
being hypnotized has to allow themselves to submit to the
hypnotist. Once they do that, the hypnotist can work their
trade. In other words if you do not give in or allow a No touch
Knockout Master to do this to you, it will not happen. Might
be a big, big surprise for the No Touch Master when someone
does not respond accordingly. (provided they have bought into
their ability to do it on anyone)

Brian R. VanCise
www.instinctiveresponsetraining.com (http://www.instinctiveresponsetraining.com)

[tradrockrat]

I once knocked a guy out with my chi -- anti bottle. Does that count?

[SAVAGE]

Sometimes when I am sparring, my partner will accidently grab my finger and pull....that I find is the opportune moment to release my CHI.....it knocks out my opponent...burns the eyes of any one near enough and sends even the people in the corner of the dojo running away!

I wont even tell you about how quickly people tap out when I am training Judo and I release my CHI!

And it makes no difference how they are standing or holding there toes or where they place there toungues!

Especially if I had Dahl Soup the previous evening (its a curried, bean soup with lots of chilli)!

[Shirt Ripper]

I don't know about civility but this post is becoming entertaining to say the least...

[swiftpete]

If he says he can do it then ask him to do it for you. Ask him to show you with no one else watching, purely because you're interested. He shouldn't take that as a slight on his authority unless he's lying or a nutter or something. If you can't ask him to demonstrate things to you then you're not going to have a great training relationship with him anyway.
Good luck!

[Xue Sheng]

If you do ask him to demonstrate have him demonstrate on someone other than his previous victim/conspirator.

[bluemtn]

Ok- as a side note, someone in my class was being used as a guinea pig for a defense move, and they looked like one of those people "feeling the spirit" on Benny Hinn. It took all I had to not go into laughing fits the rest of the evening.


Occasionally, there's a certain person that releases chi during sit- ups. One time, I was the lucky one holding their feet, and I had the class laughing like crazy. I had my nose covered- didn't mean to be rude, but I didn't want to have to the nearest trash can. You never know about that sort of thing.

[Blotan Hunka]

Even if he could do it, could he do it in a fight? Until some guy proves he can do it in the UFC ring, so what if it is possible or not?

[Cujo]

I would have to have it done to me to believe it. Maybe it's because I'm a cop and I'm used to people feeding me a line of B.S., but I hear people CLAIM all kinds off things. I mean hey, if I believed them all, everybody would be inocent!

Pax
Cujo

[Sin]

OK, I came on here late and I only looked at the first few posts so, I may be saying something that has already been said...

Ask this guy where he supossedly learned this technique, then have him try it on you, then when it doesn't work, ask for a refund for any of the money you ever paid him...

This is the real practical world. No Kame Hame Ha's here.

[Xue Sheng]

Even if he could do it, could he do it in a fight? Until some guy proves he can do it in the UFC ring, so what if it is possible or not?

I thought about a similar thing after reading the original post. Of what possible use would this be if it could be done?

All I can picture are 2 people engaged in a fight and one saying, "can you wait a minute while I focus my chi and if you don't mind, don't move so I can knock you out with it"

[hongkongfooey]

kamehameha!!!!

[Xue Sheng]

kamehameha!!!!


That was good.

Well of course Goku could do it, but we were talking about this other guy.

[sgtmac_46]

I once knocked a guy out with my 'Chi'.....(and by 'chi' I mean big right elbow laid along the side of his head).

I remember seeing a video with 'the human stungun'. 'Touchless knockout' heheh.

http://www.bofunk.com/video/2462/human_stun_gun.html

I love the "I can't do the touchless stun on you, because it's 'too dangerous'" I always find the ole' knock 'em out with 'chi' power stuff humorous. It only seems to ever work with 'select' students. I guess if all their fighting on the street are their own handpicked students, it works great.

'Do you feel any heat, any lightheadness?' Only 40% of people are susceptible....they all must be his students. Apparently natural athletes are the toughest to knockout....may explain why he went so easy.

[Brian R. VanCise]

sgtmac 46,

That was a very good video and once again shows
that they can do it with their students but not with
other people who do not believe in them. Not a very
effective technique when someone jumps you and is
out to hurt you and take your money. ( I do not believe
that a criminal is going to believe in you)

Thanks for the video link.

Brian R. VanCise
www.instinctiveresponsetraining.com (http://www.instinctiveresponsetraining.com)

[Xue Sheng]

So I'm guessing none of his students are natural athletes. And how does he protect himself with this. He apparently has to stop to build his Qi for a second before he can project it. Excuse me Mr. attacker would you mind waiting a second so I can build my Qi to knock you out. If this is real then the hydraulic lift I walked into 15 years ago must have had loads of Qi

I was in a Push hands class many years ago in Boston and the Sifu (from Taiwan) told a similar story about a guy that came to his school once to demonstrate this very same thing. The guy refused to do this on any of the Sifu's students because, "they were not trained how to take his Qi and I do not want to hurt them"

Sifu responded with, I teach Qi Gong and I have studied it extensively for many years, you can try it on me and do not worry about hurting me.

The guy once again came back with my students are trained by me in how to absorb Qi and I do not wish to hurt you

Sifu's response was your students are trained how to fall down, you can leave now, this is not real.

The No touch knockout guy left.

[Xue Sheng]

I had to watched that again.

I have some questions;

if you hit someone in the carotid artery will they not fall?

If you distract their focus first by scratching their wrist and the BANG, hit the carotid will they not be shocked?

If you slap someone wrist and kick them in the Arm pit, will it not hurt?

If you train your students to fall will they not fall?

Ripley's believe it or not......I vote not

[Jesse]

WOW that video, says it all...

Unless it is done on me and there is a group of people there reviving me back, I gotta say this is a BUST.

That was pretty funny when he hit the reporter and she didn't even flinch she just said "Well you just hit me in the head".

Arn't his black belt warriors trained athletes or did they just give them the gi's to impress people to come to his dojo?

[TheBattousai]

I wish he would quietly go away and leave reality alone, if he wants to go and play superheros, he can do it with his friends someplace far away. Thats just my opinion of course

[James Kovacich]

My instructor told me last lesson that he could consentrate his chi so well that he could hold his hands beside someone's head and not touch them at all. Holding it about 3 inches away and he was able to knock the person out.

I kind of find this hard to believe and was wondering if anyone else has heard of this. I would like to know before I challange him to do it to myself.

I'm not saying he can or can't but people are very quick to dismiss techniques because "they" think they don't work. We had an interesting discussion about the straight lead jab because someone though it was ineffective. Heres a partial quote from a friend that hit the nail on the head.

"As far as the poster saying a straight lead can't work , I will write most people perceive things on their own inability or shortcomings. In his own truth perhaps he lacks the skill and know how to execute the straight lead the way it is meant to be."


That is widespread throughout the martial arts and couldn't be any simpler to understand why people say things like "Karate sucks or Kung Fu is weak."

I understand chi a bit but I don't beleive in chi knockouts. Nerver strikes are clearly differant than what you described. What I'm saying is be objective and give your instructor the respect he deserves. When you ask him to show you, be humble about it. Not just for this situation but for all. You'll go a lot farther might not become a punching bag. He'll have an excuse if he can't do it.

[hongkongfooey]

I'm not saying he can or can't but people are very quick to dismiss techniques because "they" think they don't work. We had an interesting discussion about the straight lead jab because someone though it was ineffective. Heres a partial quote from a friend that hit the nail on the head.

"As far as the poster saying a straight lead can't work , I will write most people perceive things on their own inability or shortcomings. In his own truth perhaps he lacks the skill and know how to execute the straight lead the way it is meant to be."


That is widespread throughout the martial arts and couldn't be any simpler to understand why people say things like "Karate sucks or Kung Fu is weak."

I understand chi a bit but I don't beleive in chi knockouts. Nerver strikes are clearly differant than what you described. What I'm saying is be objective and give your instructor the respect he deserves. When you ask him to show you, be humble about it. Not just for this situation but for all. You'll go a lot farther might not become a punching bag. He'll have an excuse if he can't do it.


In my honest opinion, you have people saying karate sucks and kung fu is weak, because of people like the human stungun, wearing their PJ's and playing Dragon Ball Z. I think the teacher should be asked to demostrate his "death touch". Until he can produce a repeatable result on an unwilling persont, his teachings should be suspect.

[Xue Sheng]

There is a big difference between a straight lead and the human stun gun.

Is this sort of thing possible, maybe, but if it were I would expect it from a Qi Gong master that had studied Qi Gong and only Qi Gong for many many years. And I would be willing to bet if one ever did or does exist, he or she didn't tell anyone about it, other then trusted students.

Do I really believe it is possible to knock someone out with out touching them and only with your Qi, no.

And I have said it before in this post, as originally described and as demonstrated by the human stun gun, of what use is this.

If your in a battle/fight/competition with someone and they ask you to stop for a minute while they build their Qi so they can knock you out, are you going to stand and wait!?

[fullkontact]

not to sound close minded, but what a load of crap. I don't buy it at all. However, how do you explain people's first hand accounts? Somebody on here has to have some kind of experience with having it done to them. One of my students said he was knocked down (not out), by one of his instructors, who apparently didn't even touch him. Now this student is an adult who doesn't seem like the type to make stuff up. So what is it then? a mental thing?

[Kenpobldr]

I have used my "CHI" to knock out my wife and kids ....... after I have eaten several protien bars.

[Xequat]

I'm just curious...to all of the skeptics that say it's stage magic and hypnosis, is there any proof of that or anyone who was a part of an organization that practiced it that has come forward and said that it's BS? Because it would really help the argument if there were some evidence. I have never seen a no-touch KO and I'm a skeptic about it, but I'm not claiming it's this or that without any kind of proof to back up my statements. The stage magic/hypnosis argument is as unbelievable to me as the no-touch ko, because, like was mentioned before, you generally (although not always) have to be a willing participant for it to work, and I don't believe that that many people are faking it and nobody has come out and said so. It was also stated that only maybe a 24/7/365 practitioner could do something like that, but Dillman is a 24/7/365 practitioner of the martial arts. The proposal that it's stage magic is an unbelievable conspiracy theory because if it were all BS, then someone would have come forward and claimed to have been a part of it, but I don't know if that has happened. If so, I'd like to see what they have said, because that would really help the BS argument, but right now, there has been absolutely no empirical evidence, testimonials, even scientific theoretical explanation about how it can be faked for so many years. Like I said, I've never seen a no-touch ko and I'll be skeptical until I get ko'd that way, but not until I see proof either way will I believe anything.

In short...my message to my fellow skeptics : please offer some evidence that this is a hoax and put the thing to rest.

[Xue Sheng]

I did not think it was possible, but I got one better than just knocking someone out with Qi.

I talked to a guy, most unfortunately in my Tai Chi class, that told me about someone, he use to trained with, whose Qi was so strong that this person could freeze you in your tracks just by looking at you and possible kill you just with his powerful Qi.

It just keeps sillier and sillier.

[arnisador]

These are 'social pressure' knockouts. They ony do them to their students, who eventually fall to avoid embarrassing their instructors. I have never, ever seen anyone try this on anyone who wasn't one of their students.

[Wing Chun Dummy]

:bs:

copy that

[Xue Sheng]

Agreed

As a Kung fu Sifu from Taiwan once said to one of these guys

You have trained your students to fall down, now get out.

[Andrew Main]

This also reminds me of the claims that one can rip flesh from the body with a fierce pinching technique.

[qizmoduis]

In short...my message to my fellow skeptics : please offer some evidence that this is a hoax and put the thing to rest.

Er....no. It doesn't work that way. You must support your assertions regarding 'chi' with solid evidence. No 'chi' practitioners have come forward with anything but tricks, sleight-of-hand, and pure fakery. Most of the time, it isn't even GOOD fakery. The funniest examples are the guys that hop backwards and then slam themselves into walls over and over again. Supposedly, their teachers' 'chi' pushed them! :rolleyes:

Again, the correct attitude for any person with half a wit is this: Prove it!

We're still waiting.

[James Kovacich]

Er....no. It doesn't work that way. You must support your assertions regarding 'chi' with solid evidence. No 'chi' practitioners have come forward with anything but tricks, sleight-of-hand, and pure fakery. Most of the time, it isn't even GOOD fakery. The funniest examples are the guys that hop backwards and then slam themselves into walls over and over again. Supposedly, their teachers' 'chi' pushed them! :rolleyes:

.
You already stated some proof although it is very weak because it so obviosly staged. Neither side can prove otherwise. I don't beleive in anything no-touch but it was a simple question if anyones experienced it & not a challenge of who has to prove who's right.

And in America someone must be "proven" guilty. The burden of the "proof" lies on the "accuser" before the "accused." If one can't prove their point, then why bother "assuming" you're right if it can't really be proven?

[Martial Tucker]

I have knocked a few people out with my chi-li...

Only problem is, for it to work I have eat a bowl full, then wait a little while...

:eek:

[Xequat]

Yeah, yeah...ever eaten a Chimichanga from a Chi-Chi's restaurant? Triple knockout...you could get three people at once.

Anyway, akja's exactly right. If their proo fthat it does work is to actually do it, and you are the one saying that it is faked, then it's up to you to find someone or something to back yourself up. You are the accuser and "stage magic," being "trained to fall," and "hypnosis" are all incredibly unsubstantial arguments because if they were true, then by now, someone from DKI or KI or the human stun gun's organization, or whatever would have come out and said exactly how it was done. Do you know what kind of attention that would get in the martial arts community? A person could write a book about it and retire for life on his own personal island. But nobody has come out that I know of which is why I've put it that way. If someone has blown up the whole conspiracy, then that would be some testimonial evidence that it's all BS. But I haven't seen it anywhere, and apparently neither has anyone else. Just because the unbelievably ridiculous notion of hypnosis is the only somewhat logical explanation that you personally can come up with doesn't mean it's the only possible one. Everyone seems so certain of themselves by saying that it's stage magic, plain and simple, it's hypnosis, and the guys are trained that way, but it can't be all three. Since you all obviously have inside knowledge into these organizations, exactly which conspiracy is it that has been fooling so many people for so long?

What sucks is that you might be right, but nobody can back it up. I'll settle for any evidence, not even necessarily proof, that this is faked. Show me a testimonial, show me a scientific article saying that it's impossible for sure, or show me anything else that might convince an objective person that it's all a scam. Anything at all...please. Seriously, I don't disagree with you, but you are making very specific accusations, but have not even the slightest bit of marginally significant evidence to back it up...just a bunch of BS flags and explanations that are at least as ridiculous as what you're attacking.

[qizmoduis]

Yeah, yeah...ever eaten a Chimichanga from a Chi-Chi's restaurant? Triple knockout...you could get three people at once.

Anyway, akja's exactly right. If their proo fthat it does work is to actually do it, and you are the one saying that it is faked, then it's up to you to find someone or something to back yourself up. You are the accuser and "stage magic," being "trained to fall," and "hypnosis" are all incredibly unsubstantial arguments because if they were true, then by now, someone from DKI or KI or the human stun gun's organization, or whatever would have come out and said exactly how it was done. Do you know what kind of attention that would get in the martial arts community? A person could write a book about it and retire for life on his own personal island. But nobody has come out that I know of which is why I've put it that way. If someone has blown up the whole conspiracy, then that would be some testimonial evidence that it's all BS. But I haven't seen it anywhere, and apparently neither has anyone else. Just because the unbelievably ridiculous notion of hypnosis is the only somewhat logical explanation that you personally can come up with doesn't mean it's the only possible one. Everyone seems so certain of themselves by saying that it's stage magic, plain and simple, it's hypnosis, and the guys are trained that way, but it can't be all three. Since you all obviously have inside knowledge into these organizations, exactly which conspiracy is it that has been fooling so many people for so long?

What sucks is that you might be right, but nobody can back it up. I'll settle for any evidence, not even necessarily proof, that this is faked. Show me a testimonial, show me a scientific article saying that it's impossible for sure, or show me anything else that might convince an objective person that it's all a scam. Anything at all...please. Seriously, I don't disagree with you, but you are making very specific accusations, but have not even the slightest bit of marginally significant evidence to back it up...just a bunch of BS flags and explanations that are at least as ridiculous as what you're attacking.

Goodness. You've got it exactly backwards. The person/organization first must support their poposition (chi, in this case) with evidence, and then must show that their supplied evidence is untainted, and finally must describe the exact process in which their evidence can be independently reproduced and verified. This isn't a court of law, it's scientific verification.

There's a reason why James Randi's foundation has never lost it's million dollars, and it isn't because they're biased.

[Kenpodoc]

Yeah, yeah...ever eaten a Chimichanga from a Chi-Chi's restaurant? Triple knockout...you could get three people at once.

Anyway, akja's exactly right. If their proo fthat it does work is to actually do it, and you are the one saying that it is faked, then it's up to you to find someone or something to back yourself up. You are the accuser and "stage magic," being "trained to fall," and "hypnosis" are all incredibly unsubstantial arguments because if they were true, then by now, someone from DKI or KI or the human stun gun's organization, or whatever would have come out and said exactly how it was done. Do you know what kind of attention that would get in the martial arts community? A person could write a book about it and retire for life on his own personal island. But nobody has come out that I know of which is why I've put it that way. If someone has blown up the whole conspiracy, then that would be some testimonial evidence that it's all BS. But I haven't seen it anywhere, and apparently neither has anyone else. Just because the unbelievably ridiculous notion of hypnosis is the only somewhat logical explanation that you personally can come up with doesn't mean it's the only possible one. Everyone seems so certain of themselves by saying that it's stage magic, plain and simple, it's hypnosis, and the guys are trained that way, but it can't be all three. Since you all obviously have inside knowledge into these organizations, exactly which conspiracy is it that has been fooling so many people for so long?

What sucks is that you might be right, but nobody can back it up. I'll settle for any evidence, not even necessarily proof, that this is faked. Show me a testimonial, show me a scientific article saying that it's impossible for sure, or show me anything else that might convince an objective person that it's all a scam. Anything at all...please. Seriously, I don't disagree with you, but you are making very specific accusations, but have not even the slightest bit of marginally significant evidence to back it up...just a bunch of BS flags and explanations that are at least as ridiculous as what you're attacking.
I believe that it is stage magic. You apparently need proof that it is. I would suggest that you look for the opportunity to have a no touch knockout done on yourself.

respectfully,

Jeff

[Xequat]

I would consider actually doing it some pretty good evidence for most things. I saw a video a while ago of Dillman and some other DKI guys doing some no-touch ko's for a 60th birthday party or some such thing and they had guys hooked up to ekg's or eeg's; I forget which, but they were clearly knocked out. There is scientific evidence that it does work. My point is that whether you're in court or not, if you accuse someone of fraud, and that's basically what is going on here, then you need to back up that claim. There is evidence, but you don't think it's good enough. I'm sorry, but if God-only-knows-how-many thousands of people participate in these displays, and nobody has come out and said that they are fraudulent, then I have to believe that there is something to it. What gets me is when people say that it's one specific thing or another, such as hypnosis or training, as if they actually have any inside knowledge of it whatsoever and they speak the truth that's plain enough for anyone with any sense to see it their way. Just because it's the only theory you can come up with that makes sense to you doesn't not mean that it's the only explanation possible, but that's the attitude I pick up.

If you call someone a fraud, then point out exactly the method they use to commit this fraud, then it's up to you to back it up. My stance is that maybe it's true, maybe it;s not. I am pretty skeptical about it, but I have seen no proof so far that it's faked, so in the process of scientific method, we are still at the testing stage. We've gone beyond the hypothetical and into the test stage and sometimes they work, sometimes they don't. I'm sure these no-touch organizations are still doing tests to try to figure out when and why it doesn't work. We've seen the tests that do work, we've seen those that do not. But nobody has ever said anything that I know of about it being faked. Conspiracy theories of this magnitude are impossible because you can't have as many people who participate in these things keep it secret forever.

[Andrew Main]

I think that it may be possible to put something more behind a punch or a kick with chi. I have experienced a faster or more effective strike when I have focused more chi, ki or mojo to the strike.

[stone_dragone]

Have I ever personally knocked someone out with my chi? No Have I ever seen it first hand? No. Do I believe that it is possible? Yes. Is it something that you can learn how to do in less than 50 years? I seriously doubt it.

I do agree, however, that there is emperical evidence that immediately following a "no touch knock out" attempt some participants are found to be unconscious. Did the chi knock them out or did social pressure do the trick? I don't know.

My experience reflects that if you don't wash your gear once in a while, you could execute a no-touch knock out without any problem what so ever.

My two bits...

[James Kovacich]

I stated out the gate that I didn't beleive in the no-touch knockout. BUT, my point has been, not just with this technique but all through the martial arts, certain techniques are "discounted" based on limited knowledge. If one does not understand it, it can't work. That is wrong.

Does chi exist? Yes. Is it usuable with martial arts? Of course. But I do beleive that one needs to understand their chi and some form of training that involves it. And my training does involve contact.

[DeLamar.J]

My instructor told me last lesson that he could consentrate his chi so well that he could hold his hands beside someone's head and not touch them at all. Holding it about 3 inches away and he was able to knock the person out.

I kind of find this hard to believe and was wondering if anyone else has heard of this. I would like to know before I challange him to do it to myself.The only way to know for sure is to test it for yourself. Test everything, believe in nothing. You have to test it for yourself, anyone can tell you this or that. To be told can be being lied to, to see can be to be decieved, to feel is to know.

[SAVAGE]

For all the skeptics of Chi Knockouts..I can show you conclusive video footage of me knockig out just normal people with my chi!

[Cirdan]

I like the way Alain Sailly put it; Oh yes we have to find my Ki! Where is my Ki?

A misunderstood concept indeed. sigh. :rolleyes:

[Xue Sheng]

For all the skeptics of Chi Knockouts..I can show you conclusive video footage of me knockig out just normal people with my chi!

With or without touching them?

[Suntail]

I personally believe in chi, but I know there are alot of frauds out there. So, I think you should just ask them to demenstrate on an unbiased subject. Or better yet subjects. Involve yourself in the demenstration. If it works, great. If not... are you still going to trust him?
Keep in mind, one fraud doesn't disprove anything.

Just my opinion.

[Maltair]

My instructor would say the same thing, but then he would be looking around to see who is going to call BS first. Is your instructor a jokester?

[Xue Sheng]

I was in a Push hands class many years ago in Boston and the Sifu (from Taiwan) told a similar story about a guy that came to his school once to demonstrate this very same thing. The guy refused to do this on any of the Sifu's students because, "they were not trained how to take his Qi and I do not want to hurt them"


Sifu responded with, I teach Qi Gong and I have studied it extensively for many years, you can try it on me and do not worry about hurting me.

The guy once again came back with my students are trained by me in how to absorb Qi and I do not wish to hurt you


Sifu's response was your students are trained how to fall down, you can leave now, this is not real.


The No touch knockout guy left.


Previously posted

[arnisador]

I picked up the current issue of Classical Fighting Arts (Issue #8). The publisher's editorial discusses the National Geographic special, and says surprisingly plainly:


...ch'i, a phenomenon which all evidence proves does not exist...discounted repeatedly in the past...

It's a lengthy piece that is unequivocal, blatantly mocking the tongue-and-toe position comments and quoting from James RAndi's site (where he compares "Ch'i-throwing" to "bull-throwing"); it also serves as a lead-in to a long and well-footnoted article by Hary Cook entitled "Reflections on the Power of Ch'i and the Martial Arts" (Part I).

In my opinion, Classical Fighting Arts is one of the very few worthwhile martial arts magazines on the market. Black Belt's story would have been "Ch'i: Could Bruce Lee have used it to Stop Terrorists?" or the like.

[James Kovacich]

I think chi is grossly mis-understood. When "linked" to "stories" of the no-touch chi then it becomes unbeleivable. As far as the story disproving chi. Its one mans story. His proof to be interpeted. Theres enough "realistic" stories in favor of chi to "recognize" it. But recognizing it and understanding it are two differant things.

[Shogun]

I hear the word a lot, as our Gracie Jiu Jitsu classes are held at at a school also housing an IWTA (WingTsun) program and accupuncture. but they don't refer to it as some holy energy.



Re: Has anyone knocked someone out with their chi?

I think I choked a guy out with chi once. I had his back, and sunk in a really tight Mata leao....