Breaking the Rules!

[bignick]

Ok, don't get too excited...I just wanted to start a discussion on competition rules, compare and contrast, and more importantly, what rule do you find yourself wanting to bend ( or break ) all the time?

For me, in Judo, the rule I really don't appreciate is not being able to throw daki-age (http://judoinfo.com/dakiage.htm). It is legal to load the throw, which breaks the ground work, but actually executing it is illegal, which basically denies a guaranteed ippon.

I find myself in this position all the time and it's not very satisfying to pick someone up like that and then have to gently lower them back to the mat. I think they should go back to the old rule of calling ippon when uke has been lifted to shoulder level.

[terryl965]

The Junior Safety rule of no head shots, I believe it takes away from the competition. we do not have no head shots in the NFL or the NHL or even in soccer so why in Martial Art tournaments
Terry

[bignick]

I take it you're referring to kicks as well. I also think it could do us TKDists a bit of good to worry about a punch to the head once in a while...

[Grenadier]

My desire to bend some of the rules would be more from a referee's / judge's viewpoint.

I'd change the scoring methods used in the USA-NKF / WKF tournaments. I honestly believe that a good, clean, solid punch to the body should be worth at least 2 pts (nihon), and not just a mandatory single point (ippon), and that a combination of hand techniques that lands two clean shots should have the same point value as a kick to the head (3 pts, sanbon).

[Blindside]

Groin shot should be permitted in every striking competition.

It keeps kickers honest and boxers from squaring up too much.

Lamont

[FearlessFreep]

I've never been tempted to but I'd like to be able to kick from maybe knees up (thigh and hip). Also elbows at least to the body...and knees

[Andrew Green]

Groin shot should be permitted in every striking competition.

It keeps kickers honest and boxers from squaring up too much.

Lamont

No, groin shots should never be allowed. To much risk of injury, even with a cup a groin shot can put you under the knife to get things fixed.

[Blindside]

No, groin shots should never be allowed. To much risk of injury, even with a cup a groin shot can put you under the knife to get things fixed.

If we're talking full contact, I don't see how this is so different than injured kidneys, liver, brains, or blown knees. Opening up the groin would just change the game. (Plus some brainiac would come up with a better groin protector.)

If we are talking about light contact, control is the name of the game.

Lamont

[Blindside]

I've never been tempted to but I'd like to be able to kick from maybe knees up (thigh and hip). Also elbows at least to the body...and knees

It sounds like you need to go play with the Muay Thai guys! :D

Lamont

[Shirt Ripper]

I think they should go back to the old rule of calling ippon when uke has been lifted to shoulder level.

Did that rule apply only to that specific technique/situation or in general?

[jdinca]

Groin shot should be permitted in every striking competition.

It keeps kickers honest and boxers from squaring up too much.

Lamont

:rofl: I know you're serious but the visual was hilarious! Sure would shorten up the length of the matches.

For me, it would be head shots in point sparring. We usually spar with the full contact fighters, so every time I see that head just sticking up there...

[Flatlander]

In all fairness Nick, even if they were to allow daki-age in your Judo competitions, I don't think they should allow YOU to do it. Good Lord Man, you'd kill someone.....

[bignick]

Did that rule apply only to that specific technique/situation or in general?

That technique, specifically


In all fairness Nick, even if they were to allow daki-age in your Judo competitions, I don't think they should allow YOU to do it. Good Lord Man, you'd kill someone.....

oh well...:idunno:

[Gemini]

The Junior Safety rule of no head shots, I believe it takes away from the competition. we do not have no head shots in the NFL or the NHL or even in soccer so why in Martial Art tournaments
Terry
I agree. Even though head shots are legal at 12, I started my son at 10 because he refused to protect his head, knowing he couldn't get hit. His very first tourney, WHAM! head shot. Yea, it was illegal, but he still took my son's head out of the match and turned a huge lead into an overtime loss. Besides, 2 years is plenty of time to learn a bad habit and then when they are legal, it's much more difficult to teach them the additional defense. Better to start at the beginning.

Mr. Duck, to your point, I'd like to see thigh shots and sweeps legal also. It would definately change the face of the game in (IMO) a favorable way.

[Blindside]

:rofl: I know you're serious but the visual was hilarious! Sure would shorten up the length of the matches.

For me, it would be head shots in point sparring. We usually spar with the full contact fighters, so every time I see that head just sticking up there...

You can't do head shots in point sparring???

Lamont

[Shirt Ripper]

In all fairness Nick, even if they were to allow daki-age in your Judo competitions, I don't think they should allow YOU to do it. Good Lord Man, you'd kill someone.....

That is the reason I ask...I think I could take bignick out that way...not sound arrogant...that would probably be my only change...and also...pretty cool to take a 340 pounder out like that...:idunno:

[bignick]

That is the reason I ask...I think I could take bignick out that way...not sound arrogant...that would probably be my only change...and also...pretty cool to take a 340 pounder out like that...:idunno:

You'd have to get me on the ground first...

[Laborn]

In Olympic tkd. Sucks we cant use our hands to the head, and sucks we cant do thigh shots, AND DEF. sucks that we cant sweet/throw :(

[Jagermeister]

No elbows in Muay Thai in most American competitions. That kind of sucks.

[karatekid1975]

We did head shots in point sparring. Your school doesn't jdinca?

Anyways, The rules I like to bend are the hand contact to the head in TKD (WTF). When I did point sparring, it was allowed and I scored with my hands more than my feet. I'd fake a kick, then BAM! Get them with a quick backfist to the mellon. It never failed me to score ;)

If I can mix point sparring rules of TSD, full contact of TKD, continuous sparring of TKD, leg kicks of Muay Thai, and add throws, sweaps, ect of Judo/jujitsu (at least, sweaps, anyways). I'd be a happy camper. And I would loose the gear, except for the groin protector for guys, the mouth piece, and gloves.

[jdinca]

There's a number of different rules on point sparring, depending on where you're doing it. We don't do strikes to the head for a couple of reasons. Number one would be that you can start our light contact class as an orange belt, and the control is just not there yet. Two, we really don't compete in tournaments but the one we do compete in has a no strikes to the head rule. You can throw a strike to the head but if you make contact, it's a warning. Second time is a disqualification. Last year, I competed in the advanced heavyweight point sparring. There was another guy from our school who had just finished his full contact career the year before. He couldn't stop himself from hitting to the head. I won the pool by betting that he wouldn't make it past the second fight. :D

[FearlessFreep]

It sounds like you need to go play with the Muay Thai guys!p.

Maybe...I just thinkg there's a lot more to TKD than the roundhouse and the spinning back kick and I'd like a chance to spar with more of what it has to offer :)

[Odin]

No elbows in Muay Thai in most American competitions. That kind of sucks.

In england it depends on what compition all title matche are fought under full muay thai rules.elows knees to the head and all.

Age and experience depends on fight rules.
but mainly no knees or elbow to the head.

[Damian Mavis]

Big Nick, sorry I gotta jump in here. TKD DOES have punching to the head, WTF sport style however does NOT.

Damian Mavis
Honour TKD

[bignick]

Big Nick, sorry I gotta jump in here. TKD DOES have punching to the head, WTF sport style however does NOT.

Damian Mavis
Honour TKD

Thank you for that clarification, but the post was about sport/competition rules you don't like, so I kind of assumed people knew I was referring to olympic style competition...

[Odin]

Im not good with rule changes...yuo know how many times people in my camp have accidently elbowed someone in the head due to that nasty 'muscle memory' business.....dman I find hitting a pad hard after doing two sparring classes in a row!lol

[Tony]

This is why I never enter Tournaments because they too many rules and not very realistic for actual combat. In class I been known to forget about these rules. For instance i seem to like kicking to the groin (its not intentional!) by instinct and sometimes I have the urge to use a spinning backfist but have to stop myself because I'm told I'm not allowed to do that. I spar with my fellow students, most of whom have not been training as long as me and probably think they would be able to take care of themselves when it mattered but I wonder if they would remember out other kung fu techniques such as clawing, eye gouges, elbows, knees, spinning back fists and a good old kick to the crown jewels when needed.
These sound like bad habits if i were using them in a tournament situation but if my life depended on it I woudl use every dirty trick to survive.

In my class we do San Shou so we can throw and use submissions while we spar as well. Unfortunately when when you're put in a hold you can't break free by using pressure points or biting which i would most likely try in a real confrontation. These are our rules, you can punch to the head, kick to the head, use some low kicks, throws, holds and submissions can only last for a count of 4. No hook punches, no back fists, elbows allowed though. So with all these rules someone who enters competitions a lot is going to be used to this and think they are good when they are not!

There are some good tournament fighters in my class but how they woudl fare on the street is anyone's guess, with no gloves, head gear or cup.
This is why I only use just my gloves and foot mits and no groin protection so that I learn to take hits to the face and I learn to cover up, evade and block.

[Makalakumu]

And I would loose the gear, except for the groin protector for guys, the mouth piece, and gloves.

Sometimes its good to give this a try, but I wouldn't do it on a regular basis. Your gear keeps you coming back to train. Injuries are a major bummer.

[Adept]

Wow, I haven't trained with anything but gloves for years...

[Makalakumu]

Wow, I haven't trained with anything but gloves for years...

Maybe you are just luckier then I am, but I've broken ribs twice now and I can tell you that it was no fun.

[karatekid1975]

Sometimes its good to give this a try, but I wouldn't do it on a regular basis. Your gear keeps you coming back to train. Injuries are a major bummer.

But in TKD, I don't spar without gear. They won't let us. But it'd be nice to try sparring with almost none. If people in my class didn't have gear on, they would learn to cover up, evade and block better. Not that they just "stand there and take a hit" now, but it will teach them/us to "not get hit" or not be there in the first place. Just for the fact of getting hit does hurt at times. That will teach'em to not take the same hit twice.

In Jujitsu, we don't wear any gear when we do techniques, "spar," grappling, ect. The above comes into play. We learn to cover up, evade, block and/or use their force against them (throws, takedowns, ect).

[Adept]

Maybe you are just luckier then I am, but I've broken ribs twice now and I can tell you that it was no fun.

No, no luckier, Cracked ribs twice, and two broken noses.

I'd prefer to take it in the classroom, where I can learn from it, than on the street where it may be the last lesson I ever learn.

[Shu2jack]

The one rule I am constantly tempted to break is grabbing the opponent and throwing/body slamming them. Those dang spin and jump spin kicks are annoying.

I also want the ATA to go back to sparring without a chest protector. It makes students lazy on their guard.

I would also like to be able to punch to the head.

[bignick]

Any other people from different styles have rules they want to break?

[Slippery_Pete]

The actual deduction of a half-point for running out of the ring instead of just a warning...if you are out of the ring, I can't continue my combination on you...so therefor I loose the chance to score points and they get the chance for a 'breather'...too many people step outside to delay instead of learning to work the ring and get tired!!