Muay Thai Vs Taekwondo

[Odin]

I had this convo in a bar one night with a friend that’s brother is a black belt in the sport,me being a Thai fighter said that muay thai is the best all-round stand up discipline that you can practice...he then sent me the first thread of a Thai fighter been beaten by a teakwondo fighter....I thought that fight was fixed so I found another video (watch at a and see!) but what do you guys think of the films?or that argument in general.
Is teakwondo just full of flashy kicks that are impractical in a fight or is muay thai simply over rated??


check the links---->
The shroud of fakeness

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4096698654952355459&q=Muay+Thai

The truth

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5493534041886130229&q=Muay+Thai

[Sin]

Lets get one thing straight, the style has nothing to do with how good a fighter someone is....

If a TKD guy is a better fighter than the Muay Thai guy then the TKD guy will win...Both Styles have there Pros and Cons, but are both equal in strength as a style...

So in conclusion, the style dosn't determine the victor, the individuals that are competing determine the out come

[Fluffy]

I don't think either is fake, I would say that it's not the art that makes people great fighters it's the man himself. In the second video I thought I saw a color belt on the TKD stylist.....could be the bad video.

[Odin]

Lets get one thing straight, the style has nothing to do with how good a fighter someone is....

If a TKD guy is a better fighter than the Muay Thai guy then the TKD guy will win...Both Styles have there Pros and Cons, but are both equal in strength as a style...

So in conclusion, the style dosn't determine the victor, the individuals that are competing determine the out come

True but at some point your going to have a really good muay thai fighter and then a really good tkd fighter....Im talking more on the tech's they use.....I thought the first video looked dodgy since I've fought in the ring and its hard to get the distancing and positioning to do a move like that on someone...
''no style is better then anyone other style its is the indvidual that decides the outcome''<---I know this but am merely exploring an exception.

[beauty_in_the_sai]

First of all, TKD is NOT alot of flashy kicks. True, some TKD is McDojos and flashy kicks, but some like mine isn't. I'm getting so fed up with this generalization. I've beat people from other styles (including a thai boxer) and other people have beaten me (including a thai boxer). It's how good the person is at their strength and exploiting the enemy's weakness. Muay Thai is not better than TKD nor is TKD better than muay thai. Alot of factors go into the art, like who you are taught by, what facet of the art you take, how good you naturally are, how hard you practice, etc. I'm not going to sit here and tell you muay thai sucks even though you bashed my art, but just because you've seen alittle of TKD doesn't mean you've seen the whole picture. Hence, why I can't bash muay thai. I haven't taken muay thai and haven't seen the whole picture. The bashing and ignorance of other martial artists has more or less got me out of the world of martial arts. Thinking someones art sucks is one thing, saying it to them is another. The whole "My art is better than your art" is the same childishness that says "My daddy's better than your daddy". No, TKD is not the best art, but I don't think there is a "best art". All arts have their pros and cons.

Rebecca

[terryl965]

When will Martial Artist relize it is not the style it is the fighter,style has no bearing on the outcome of a fight. It is solely up to the fighter will to win. I looked at both clips and I did not see a fix.

Lastly before you say you are a TKD guy also remember I trained In Okinawa Karate also, TKD or Muay Thai or Kung fu for that matte will not be the factor in the fight, the factor is the person.

May this type of argument ever stop, will MA"ers ever learn??
Terry

[Kenpo_man]

Looking at both clips, you see the winners are the people who best utilize the strengths of their styles. The tkd guy wins with big kicks and keeping a distance at which those attacks can be thrown. The thai fighter that wins is right in the tkd guy's face throwing roundhouses to the legs and out boxing him. Have to say I am surprised to see a thai fighter lose to a tkd fighter. No disrespect intended towards tkd practitioners. I honestly believed that tkd lacked skills in a clinch situation and also lacked the depth of boxing skills that muay thai offers. I always looked at tkd as best used against tkd and not against another art. Always learning!!!

[Odin]

You guys seemed to have misinterpreted my post,I wasn't trying to get at tkd,for one I only know two guys that practice the martial art and have had the same conversation with him,the main point of that was that to me the video looked a little funny the one with the tkd guy winning just didn't seem real I merely wanted to see what you guys thought of it, or at least looks at the strengths and weakness of both arts but hey on to peoples points.

I don't remember 'bashing' anyone's art,merely made an observation based on what I've seen I except I may have been wrong.But surely if you believe so strong in one martial art you should be able to defend if prompted,even though I didn't mean to.

Kenpo-man-->you gave the type of answer I was looking for,Looking at both clips, you see the winners are the people who best utilize the strengths of their styles. The tkd guy wins with big kicks and keeping a distance at which those attacks can be thrown. The thai fighter that wins is right in the tkd guy's face throwing roundhouses to the legs and out boxing him<---

That's true,Im still not sure about the tkd guy though,I understand there's not alot of punching in tkd?and the punching they do use seems to be karate based??

And another thing where would I be able to see more tkd fighters,iv never seen any in any mma matches.

[arnisador]

Muay Thai people train hard. It's the style of training that makes them so effective.

[terryl965]

That's true,Im still not sure about the tkd guy though,I understand there's not alot of punching in tkd?and the punching they do use seems to be karate based??

First off Olympic TKD which is the sport side of it does not throw alot of punches, secondly TKD is a whole Art not just the sport and I do not believe anybody mis understood your question, your question is bias at best you have no faults when the Muay Tai fighter win that was a far match but when the TKD guys when the fight has to be fix or it just looks that way to you.

Do you see how your statement is being taken by TKD practitioners and why it being taken that way.

Why is it that if a TKD guy win a fight it been fix to make it look better than it really is. come on people I know some guys that would differently knock some heads off with there kick or there punches.
Terry

[Jagermeister]

Something to think about.

The Thai boxer that loses must have had really heavy gloves on, because he just can't seem to keep his hands up - forgetting rule #1!

And the TKD guy that loses must have forgotten his contact lenses, because he can't seem to see those round kicks to the legs coming until its too late.

I think these 2 videos do not present evenly matched fights. The loser of each seems ill-prepared to deal with his opponent and/or his opponent's style of MA. And imo, that's about as much as you can really take away from these 2 clips (i.e., virtually nothing at all regarding the nature of your style vs. style question from the original post).

And by the way, even though you didn't say it in the body of your post, the titles you provided of "shroud of fakeness" and "truth" may have tipped your hand as far as your bias goes, and the implied "bashing" there is what rubbed some people the wrong way.

[Odin]

That's true,Im still not sure about the tkd guy though,I understand there's not alot of punching in tkd?and the punching they do use seems to be karate based??

First off Olympic TKD which is the sport side of it does not throw alot of punches, secondly TKD is a whole Art not just the sport and I do not believe anybody mis understood your question, your question is bias at best you have no faults when the Muay Tai fighter win that was a far match but when the TKD guys when the fight has to be fix or it just looks that way to you.

Do you see how your statement is being taken by TKD practitioners and why it being taken that way.

Why is it that if a TKD guy win a fight it been fix to make it look better than it really is. come on people I know some guys that would differently knock some heads off with there kick or there punches.
Terry

How is it bias, surly it is just your perception that makes it's so, I cant change the way people perceive my question now can I??

second..read my first post I said the fight looks funny because of the amount of space and opportunity he has in order to perform these moves?!?Isnt that obvious? I have been trained for muay Thai like that guy and that isn’t what is taught I didn’t even see him do any mt moves??,i understand that maybe he isn’t a good fighter but then the tkd guy looks good,wouldnt that make it a blatant miss match in order to show skills or maybe distil a myth perhaps it is taken from a tkd website after all??
And more importantly all I asked is what you guys think of it.
I haven’t questioned the fight that the thai wins since I haven’t received any feed back from that yet what am I commenting on,no one has said what they think the tkd guy did wrong??or what they would do in a similar position???

[Odin]

And by the way, even though you didn't say it in the body of your post, the titles you provided of "shroud of fakeness" and "truth" may have tipped your hand as far as your bias goes, and the implied "bashing" there is what rubbed some people the wrong way.[/quote]

lol beleive it or not that wasnt me,I got emailed them links at work this morning and so copied and pasted the whole thing rather then editing it.lol shroud of fakeness is a personal joke from me to the guy that sent it to me....whoopsie..hey man when your at work and your trying to skive off you have to work fast before the watchful eye of my manager catches me.

[Gemini]

I don't think either video is fixed so much as they're edited and presented to put a certain art in a favorable light. I love TKD, but I have a ton of respect for Muay Tai and wouldn't light heartedly square off with someone proficient in the art. TKD does offer quit a bit more than they get credit for, particularly in well rounded (or traditinal, if you prefer) schools. Personally though, even sport orientated competitors can offer up a world of hurt if they're given the opportunity to direct the action in a conflict. I would recommend that if you get the chance to go to a TKD tournament, you do so. That will at least give you some personal knowledge as to what even many of those "Sports only" guys are capable of. Better yet, take it to the next level, learn the rules and enter one yourself. I think you'll find it worth your while. There's no substitute for experience.

Personally, I don't think you meant anything offensive by your question, but understand that we in TKD hear such things often, usually by people with no or little experience in the art, just the hearsay. If you do what I've suggested, then you'll have a better understanding of why such a question will cause many to anger quickly.

Good luck with your training! :)

[terryl965]

Ok in TKD we teach to stay outside to use the distance to help you when fights maybe the TKD guy had a better fight plan then the Mauy Tai Boxer at that point and your right people precieve what they want, but your post say

check the links---->
The shroud of fakeness

that implies to me you thought it was fake, I try not to get cought up with which style is better only fighters and the TKD guy was a better fighter that night any how. Whether or not you believe it he won and was cought off guard during the match for what ever reason maybe he just broke with his girl and his mind was somewhere else. who knows.

Let just say in each video the beter fighter won, not the style, OK.
Terry

[Odin]

Ok in TKD we teach to stay outside to use the distance to help you when fights maybe the TKD guy had a better fight plan then the Mauy Tai Boxer at that point and your right people precieve what they want, but your post say

check the links---->
The shroud of fakeness

that implies to me you thought it was fake, I try not to get cought up with which style is better only fighters and the TKD guy was a better fighter that night any how. Whether or not you believe it he won and was cought off guard during the match for what ever reason maybe he just broke with his girl and his mind was somewhere else. who knows.

Let just say in each video the beter fighter won, not the style, OK.
Terry

the links....i HAVE ALREADY EXPLAINED...listen you seem very protective of your martial art,i understand sorry if I offend you.I'll leave it as that with you....but.....to everyone else....

[Kenpo_man]

Muay Thai people train hard. It's the style of training that makes them so effective.

That makes a lot of sense!!

[Odin]

I don't think either video is fixed so much as they're edited and presented to put a certain art in a favorable light. I love TKD, but I have a ton of respect for Muay Tai and wouldn't light heartedly square off with someone proficient in the art. TKD does offer quit a bit more than they get credit for, particularly in well rounded (or traditinal, if you prefer) schools. Personally though, even sport orientated competitors can offer up a world of hurt if they're given the opportunity to direct the action in a conflict. I would recommend that if you get the chance to go to a TKD tournament, you do so. That will at least give you some personal knowledge as to what even many of those "Sports only" guys are capable of. Better yet, take it to the next level, learn the rules and enter one yourself. I think you'll find it worth your while. There's no substitute for experience.

Personally, I don't think you meant anything offensive by your question, but understand that we in TKD hear such things often, usually by people with no or little experience in the art, just the hearsay. If you do what I've suggested, then you'll have a better understanding of why such a question will cause many to anger quickly.

Good luck with your training! :)

Its interesting you said that I recently got involved in a kickboxing class near me (one of my friends said ''hey man theres a new kickboxing class being taught round the corner,so I turned up to find it was kickboxing not muay thai ''its the same thing isnt it'' he said to me lol) anyway I was there and I sparred with this guy who kicked the crap out of me...bearing in mind I wasnt allowed no low kicks no knees and no clinching but it made me think what if i was allowed to he did show me some good kicks and tech's ones in which I know will be useful for me to learn,they were doing a tournment but i didnt risk entering,Im interested in the kicks used in tkd...I'll be honest though AND I MEAN NO OFFENCE I have seen kicks and thought hmmm i dont think that would work,it would be interesting to see somone put it to practice....in fact dman i might just join a class!
I have the same curiosity which tkd...

[Odin]

That makes a lot of sense!!

........or if your like me you train hard......and then spend an hour or so in the pub!lol hey man guiness is fool of iron that stuff is good for you!

[The MMA kid!]

there have been endless threads on many forums about this. Muay thai, having its combatants fighting in the ring, leaves little room for mcdojos to spring up, since they can easily be pointed out.
TKD however, is broken up into many branches and many different disciplines. also, competition in TKD values speed and "who gets there first" type sparring, and doesnt really glorify agressiveness. this allows for MANY mcdojos to spring up, concentrating on competition sparring only, watering down the true purpose of the art.

The muay thai champion fighter is an extremely well-conditioned athlete who spends much of his training on cardio, and pain-inducing shin-conditioning.

The Tae kwon do champion fighter can vary from a kid with quick-kicks, to an adult. but speed is the major factor.

these arts focus on different things, however, when it comes to fighting, you can use your better judgement; is it really a coincidence that one art seems to consistently produce superior fighters?

any art that consistenly proves itself in the ring will continue to be held with high respect. think about boxing, using only your hands has long been obsolete, but it is still the most highly paid martial art in the world.

[terryl965]

the links....i HAVE ALREADY EXPLAINED...listen you seem very protective of your martial art,i understand sorry if I offend you.I'll leave it as that with you....but.....to everyone else....

Odin just so you know I wrote mine the same time so I did not see your answer about the comment on the bottom.

My apology if it was upsetting to you, also I notice one other aspect to your posting if it is against Muay Tai then they are wrong and if its for Muay Tai than they are right, hold true to your Art and train hard.

Remember both type of fighting have set rules in the ring, one must follows rule or never win, secondly the street is a whole different ballgame not saying TKD is better in the street but the actual person will determine the outcome in that stituation not the Art.

I hope I have not induce you at all but maybe help you see the other side of people perspective in the Arts.

FYI I also train in Okinawa Karate with my father Master Drill Instructor W.R. Stoker Sr.USMC so TKD is my secondary Art.
Terry

[The MMA kid!]

is it your secondary art because it is your second art, or are you more knowledgable in Okinawan Karate?

[SAVAGE]

I had this convo in a bar one night with a friend that’s brother is a black belt in the sport,me being a Thai fighter said that muay thai is the best all-round stand up discipline that you can practice...he then sent me the first thread of a Thai fighter been beaten by a teakwondo fighter....I thought that fight was fixed so I found another video (watch at a and see!) but what do you guys think of the films?or that argument in general.
Is teakwondo just full of flashy kicks that are impractical in a fight or is muay thai simply over rated??


check the links---->
The shroud of fakeness

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4096698654952355459&q=Muay+Thai

The truth

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5493534041886130229&q=Muay+Thai



Odin...could you beat say...the olympic gold medalist for TKD? How about a young Mike tyson?How about Bruce Lee? How about Chuck Norris?

I see that you are only trying to validate your self with the MT vs TKD argument...honestly i think that traditional TKD is not very different from MT..but it prefers to be in the kicking range....true the olympic styles have watered it down and i feel that on the day the better fighter will win be it TKD or MT...my vote neither is very street effective...but that is not all that makes up a MA..dont get me wrong TKDers and MTers can kick ass...but they lack the techs to grapple...ground fight...MT has no joint locking or ground fighting that I am aware of...TKD doesnt grapple as far as I know so neither art IMHO is more complete than the other...they ar as incomplete as the other...the most well rounded arts are combat hapkido (but of course I would say that), aikido and JJJ! They teach to fight in all ranges!
Now I know that what I said is going to piss alot of people off, but it is my view and I do not mean to offend..I respect anyone who puts in the time to try to master an art..I think TKD is awesome as well as MT and i have trained in both but in my journey i have found other arts to be more effective and complete!

[Marginal]

The shroud of fakeness

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4096698654952355459&q=Muay+Thai

The truth

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5493534041886130229&q=Muay+Thai

The videos have circulated through the TKD forum already.

1st vid: The general conclusion was that the MT fighter wasn't very good, and the TKD fighter despite knocking the MT guy around wasn't really doing much that hurt the guy. He was just displacing him. Looked kinda cool, but he wasn't really getting anywhere.

2nd vid: Selective footage as supplied by a MT club. (Both vids are extremely edited.) It's interesting to actually visit the website of that tournament it's an open competition, and the tournament history has more than one TKD guy taking the top spot.

Try this video for fun. http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8905814373980290480&q=taekwondo

[FearlessFreep]

Ahh...hadn't seen the Juras video in awhile...thanks : )

[terryl965]

[quote=The MMA kid!]is it your secondary art because it is your second art, or are you more knowledgable in Okinawan Karate?[/quote

Okinawa was what I learn first, then I started TKD tor the last 25 years

Terry

[MJS]

I had this convo in a bar one night with a friend that’s brother is a black belt in the sport,me being a Thai fighter said that muay thai is the best all-round stand up discipline that you can practice...he then sent me the first thread of a Thai fighter been beaten by a teakwondo fighter....I thought that fight was fixed so I found another video (watch at a and see!) but what do you guys think of the films?or that argument in general.
Is teakwondo just full of flashy kicks that are impractical in a fight or is muay thai simply over rated??


check the links---->
The shroud of fakeness

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4096698654952355459&q=Muay+Thai

The truth

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5493534041886130229&q=Muay+Thai



Debates like this usually tend to rage on and on with no solid conclusion. That being said, it is hard to judge what art is best by watching a video, considering that we may not know the rules of the fight. We also need to consider that what may or may not be able to be done in the tourny. may not apply if the two fighters met on the street.

In the end, all styles have their strong and weak points. We can have 10 fights and get 10 different results. How each person gears his/her training will also play a big part.

Mike

[Jagermeister]

I could be wrong here, but it seems that Muay Thai translates better into NHB events than TKD.

[Laborn]

Ahh well. Not a fair match with the videos, in the first video the Tkdoist was an expert, the muay thai guy apparently was a beginner, you can tell if you know anything about muay thai, he wasn't keeping his arms in elboe position, nor was his leg sweeps anywhere near effective. And the second video the muay thai guy you can tell has some experience in it, the tkd guy...well he sucked basically lol. And as everyone else has already said, it's not the art, it's the way the person trains in the art. Someone in muay thai could just simply go to class, and that's it, me for example a tkdoist i train at my school but also i train alot at home.

Laborn.

[Laborn]

[quote=Odin]I had this convo in a bar one night with a friend that’s brother is a black belt in the sport,me being a Thai fighter said that muay thai is the best all-round stand up discipline that you can practice...he then sent me the first thread of a Thai fighter been beaten by a teakwondo fighter....I thought that fight was fixed so I found another video (watch at a and see!) but what do you guys think of the films?or that argument in general.
Is teakwondo just full of flashy kicks that are impractical in a fight or is muay thai simply over rated??


check the links---->
The shroud of fakeness

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4096698654952355459&q=Muay+Thai

The truth

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5493534041886130229&q=Muay+Thai



What the heck is that, shroud of fakeness? truth? They're the same freaking videos jsut switched sides, in one tkd guy is experienced, in the other the muay thai guy is more experienced. Why do you bash TKD when you apparently know nothing about it except the rumour of *flashy* kicks. Some schools are more showy, some schools are more street defense, some schools are more competition. I've seen muay thai guys get totally murdered out on the street, but i've also seen tkd guys get creamed. It depends on the person, NOT i repeat NOT the art.

Laborn.

[SAVAGE]

[quote=Odin]I had this convo in a bar one night with a friend that’s brother is a black belt in the sport,me being a Thai fighter said that muay thai is the best all-round stand up discipline that you can practice...he then sent me the first thread of a Thai fighter been beaten by a teakwondo fighter....I thought that fight was fixed so I found another video (watch at a and see!) but what do you guys think of the films?or that argument in general.
Is teakwondo just full of flashy kicks that are impractical in a fight or is muay thai simply over rated??


check the links---->
The shroud of fakeness

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4096698654952355459&q=Muay+Thai

The truth

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5493534041886130229&q=Muay+Thai



What the heck is that, shroud of fakeness? truth? They're the same freaking videos jsut switched sides, in one tkd guy is experienced, in the other the muay thai guy is more experienced. Why do you bash TKD when you apparently know nothing about it except the rumour of *flashy* kicks. Some schools are more showy, some schools are more street defense, some schools are more competition. I've seen muay thai guys get totally murdered out on the street, but i've also seen tkd guys get creamed. It depends on the person, NOT i repeat NOT the art.

Laborn.

Yep...I feel Odin is in need of a boost...that he has little faith in his art that is why he questions it...bu in reality he should be questioning himself...can HE beat a TKDer!

[Jagermeister]

Yep...I feel Odin is in need of a boost...that he has little faith in his art that is why he questions it...bu in reality he should be questioning himself...can HE beat a TKDer!
In defense of Odin, I don't he should be singled out. Uncertainty in the effectiveness of one's style is really the essence and the root of these endless "style vs. style" debates. These people are searching for reassurance, and in all honesty, if we've learned anything at all from the myriad threads of this nature and from the countless hours of training, I think there's little need for it.

I tried to think of a simple analogy to illustrate the futility of the question. It's like asking which is the better style of boxing, using reach and jabbing to keep the fight controlled and at a comfortable range, or getting inside of an opponent's jabbing range and throwing more power shots. And we obviously know that there is no clear-cut answer to this question. It depends on everything - on your size, on your opponent's size, on your respective skills in footwork, on your respective levels of endurance, strength, quickness, defense, etc.... You could go on and on, but the point is that we have seen champion boxers that employ each of these strategies, meaning that they can both be utterly dominant. And you would be hard pressed to convince boxing fans that chance had much to do with the dominance that some of the all-time boxing legends displayed. So the answer, like it or not, is that it depends (i.e. there is no answer).

By the way, I'm a big fan of analogies :), so if anyone can put together a better one, I would love it!

[Odin]

[quote=Odin]I had this convo in a bar one night with a friend that’s brother is a black belt in the sport,me being a Thai fighter said that muay thai is the best all-round stand up discipline that you can practice...he then sent me the first thread of a Thai fighter been beaten by a teakwondo fighter....I thought that fight was fixed so I found another video (watch at a and see!) but what do you guys think of the films?or that argument in general.
Is teakwondo just full of flashy kicks that are impractical in a fight or is muay thai simply over rated??


check the links---->
The shroud of fakeness

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4096698654952355459&q=Muay+Thai

The truth

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5493534041886130229&q=Muay+Thai



What the heck is that, shroud of fakeness? truth? They're the same freaking videos jsut switched sides, in one tkd guy is experienced, in the other the muay thai guy is more experienced. Why do you bash TKD when you apparently know nothing about it except the rumour of *flashy* kicks. Some schools are more showy, some schools are more street defense, some schools are more competition. I've seen muay thai guys get totally murdered out on the street, but i've also seen tkd guys get creamed. It depends on the person, NOT i repeat NOT the art.

Laborn.

........I explain the shroud on one of my replies to terry i think...well as for flashy kicks I simply wrote it because its a general mi conseption that i have heard in my mt class,i wrote as a reference.
true I thought it would be an idea to compare the practices of both arts obviously not by the replies never mind,I think its my bad my opening post wasnt the greatest.

[Odin]

[quote=Laborn]

Yep...I feel Odin is in need of a boost...that he has little faith in his art that is why he questions it...bu in reality he should be questioning himself...can HE beat a TKDer!

ummmmm what little faith??where did you get that from??i have little faith in your reading abilty..lol Could you beat a Thai boxer???would the answer not be what tkder???what rules???

[terryl965]

[quote=SAVAGE]

ummmmm what little faith??where did you get that from??i have little faith in your reading abilty..lol Could you beat a Thai boxer???would the answer not be what tkder???what rules???

Odin the question could you bet a Thai fighter is againa generization and if you truely expect some one to say YES it will probaly not happen without the peramitors se. Are we talking under what rules and what type of fighter they are, if they have a glass jaw or if they are able to take a punch or what happens if they go to the ground can he defend himself in that senario.

Odin you have to be put in the right place, as I stated in the other thread I know so many guys with little MA training that can beat alot of people with there fighting abilitys, all they do is fight every night in a bar or in some one barn just for fun.

Know here is a question for you and let see how you answer, can a Thai fighter take a hit to the head witha crow bar or a baseball bat or maybe even takt a stomp from a guy with steel toes shoes and wieghs in at 350 lbs plus?
Are they able to go to the ground with a grappler and be able to defend all those locks and joint manuvers/

My guess would be who knows how good are the other fighters, that is all people are trying to say here, no one knows for sure how a outcome would be.
Your Friend in the Arts
Terry

[Jagermeister]

I feel that this thread is losing its focus. For example, I don't see what taking a blow to the head from a baseball bat proves when comparing Muay Thai and TKD. And can we avoid the personal "challenges" please?

[terryl965]

I feel that this thread is losing its focus. For example, I don't see what taking a blow to the head from a baseball bat proves when comparing Muay Thai and TKD. And can we avoid the personal "challenges" please?

Jaggermeister what a great name by the way, the baseball bat is just putting different senerio's involved to prove a point it is not about which Art is better equiped, if you are talking street defense this things may come up in a real life stituation,(my cooments as been about the individual fighter not the Art they practice if it came down to a street incounter).
I do not know where you are from did not look but in NY or California these weapons could be used by certain people.

I do not make personal challenges toward anybody I hope not my way, just trying to justify it is about the person not the Art.

Terry

[SAVAGE]

[quote=SAVAGE]

ummmmm what little faith??where did you get that from??i have little faith in your reading abilty..lol Could you beat a Thai boxer???would the answer not be what tkder???what rules???

Listen grasshopper...you have a argument about myart is better with a dude in a bar..then you come here and try to justify it...could I beat a thai boxer....maybe...maybe not...but I would give him the best run for his mopney that I could...and if I lost Muay Thai would not be proved more efecctive.....the guy was just better than me!

What you are doing is having the classic...."My dad can beat your Dad up!" dilema....you need us to justify and fight...I get people with no training or TKDers and Muay Thai Fighters come up and brag about how good the art is and because they learn it they are obviouslly superior to My Judo,Goju,HKD,Boxing,TKD,Yau kung Mun...I just smile and agree...because they are free top test me.,...at the end of the day it is how I feel about my ability and my art that counts...and these vs thread dont tell alot for your belief in your abilities!

[jcraigking]

I studied WTF Tae Kwon Do. Our school/style was very big on kicks. Punchung was secondary. I spared with MT guys a few time of similar leval and skill. If I has them at legs length I could do very well against them. If they got in real close on me I found it diffucult unless I could sweep or hip throw them to the ground.

I agree with what has been said... it's not the art, it's how well you can use the strengths of your particular discipline.

[Marginal]

A similar level of skill. That casts an interesting angle on the discussion. Usually MT guy vs TKD guy presumes that the MT guy's a professional fighter and the TKD guy's some weekend duffer, with no middle ground allowed...

[jcraigking]

A similar level of skill. That casts an interesting angle on the discussion. Usually MT guy vs TKD guy presumes that the MT guy's a professional fighter and the TKD guy's some weekend duffer, with no middle ground allowed...

You can't start as a professional. There is a school here in Vegas that has both MT and TKD. It was a traditional TKD school but got "taken over" by MT. (Weird soap-opera worthy story including being sat down with Bob Chaney to hear how the Dojo would be "taken back" and become part of Chaney Studios. Can you tell why I am not there now?) I attended there on a trial basis when I first moved here.

Anyway... there were beginner through advanced MAists in both MT and TKD. Often they would have some open sparring between classes. It was a neat dynamic. One thing I'll say about MT - it's one of the most grueling workouts I've ever watched.

[Odin]

Okay I'll throw my hands up!I messed up when i wrote the opening post,It is getting abit silly now I just wanted to compare both arts and maybe talk a little about what would happen if the two arts were put in combat together...my opening post I agree was rubbish since it was baised thanks to my ignorant copy and pastewr techniques.....I am not offending anyones style,I'll be honest I raise to argument quickly so if soemone says something that is rude I always raise to it.my bad...so lets all leave the personal stuff by the door and tray nad have a conversation..even if i was the one to start trouble.(")din

[Odin]

One thing I have found is the that tkd fights legs and shins arent as conditioned as mt for obvious reasons,must tkd kicks focus on the body and head while mt fighters continue to pelt that leg with kicks,when i started muay thai my Kru pelted my legs 8 times and made it almost impossible for me to walk let along let off another kick,what do you guys think of this point ....could a tkd fighter take the pain?or does tkd have similar techs??

[terryl965]

One thing I have found is the that tkd fights legs and shins arent as conditioned as mt for obvious reasons,must tkd kicks focus on the body and head while mt fighters continue to pelt that leg with kicks,when i started muay thai my Kru pelted my legs 8 times and made it almost impossible for me to walk let along let off another kick,what do you guys think of this point ....could a tkd fighter take the pain?or does tkd have similar techs??

I would say most TKD school do not condition there shins but we do at are with wood. You know strech out the legs and pound the shins with the edge side of wood to develope the shins for kicking but in general I believe you to be right.
Terry

[The MMA kid!]

condition the shins are important, but conditionig the back of your legs are even more important!(IMO) You've got one great advantage when you force your opponent to switch to southpaw by chopping that leg. I went up against a guy that was about 83 lbs. over me. he was much more powerful (but much slower) I ran up, chopped his leg, and got the hell outta there before he grabbed me and tackled me down. CHOP CHOP CHOP, RUN RUN RUN, side step CHOP. he fell like a sack of potatoes!

[The MMA kid!]

I love sparring with TKD purests. since i have done TKD for most of my Martial arts career, I know what to expect, but since i have been crosstraining in MMA style fighting, i can assure you that the low-kick is one effective tool when fighting a TKD fighter.

[FearlessFreep]

One thing I have found is the that tkd fights legs and shins arent as conditioned as mt for obvious reasons,must tkd kicks focus on the body and head while mt fighters continue to pelt that leg with kicks

Most tkd fighters don't condition the shins probably because mst tkd fighters don't use the shin as a weapon. The kick with the shin is not, as far as I know, part of tkd so using it in a kin is not really done. It's not the target selection but the weapon selection., really. When a TKD kick goes for a low kick it's going to be a sidekick or a roundhouse with the foot or something of that nature.

[Marginal]

could a tkd fighter take the pain?or does tkd have similar techs??

1) Depends on the fighter.

2) TKD does have low line kicks, and it also has shin blocks etc which can deal with low line kicks. It's dependent on whether or not the techs are trained consistently that makes the real difference here. Generally, they are not. Doesn't mean they can't be.

[Jagermeister]

I would say most TKD school do not condition there shins but we do at are with wood. You know strech out the legs and pound the shins with the edge side of wood to develope the shins for kicking but in general I believe you to be right.
Terry

Everyone should be very careful with this. There are some nightmare stories out there about improper shin conditioning and serious long-term effects. If you do a google search or even just a search on this site, you should find quite a bit on it. If anyone is interested, check out the the Muay Thai section here - there is a thread or two about shin conditioning.

Way off topic, I know. Apologies.