Weapons training?

[Shinzu]

how many of you are for or against weapons training?

i myself enjoy training with different weapons. not only do i learn different techniques, positions, blocks, and strikes... i also develop better hand & eye co-ordination.

i dont feel it is the most important part of my training, but i do believe it adds some advantages rather than not knowing any weapons at all.

what are your thoughts and opinions?

[chufeng]

IMHO,

Weapons training is essential for the development of your empty handed art...there are tons of lessons in what each particular weapon teaches...most of them apply to empty hands...

:asian:
chufeng

[karatekid1975]

I like empty hand, but that doesn't mean I hate weapons. I believe that when you get in a fight, 9 times outta 10, you won't have a weapon. Your aggressor might, but you won't. So, I'm very big on empty hand, and empty hand against weapons training. But then again, this isn't always the case, so I don't mind learning weapons either. I just perfer empty hand stuff.

[arnisador]

As an FMA practitioner, the answer is easy for me! We think they help the empty-hand skills. Playing at "weapons speed" increases your speed, improves reflexes, etc.

[Kirk]

When I started M.A. training, it encompassed both empty hand
and weapons training. I couldn't say what TRUE influence it's
had, but I FEEL that it helped with hand eye coordination, and
footwork, big time.

[Wertle]

I love training with weapons ^_^ In the early ranks, we train with more generalized weapons, like the hanbo and bo, and nunchaku, in order to learn basic manipulation abilities. Like, an umbrella could be used like a hanbo, and after training with nunchaku I found myself idley practicing the skills with my keys (I have an extra long chain in them).

We have a designated weapon to learn for each rank, and once you get into the black belts and start training in auxillary arts, you can choose which weapons you want to learn. I have my heart set on the naginata because...well...because I think they're nifty, hehehe ^_^

[theneuhauser]

nifty indeed wertle.


like arnisador, most of my past schools have been heavy on weapons, and a wide variety of them, too. hand eye, reflexes and footwork are defenitely a plus. the excercise factor also comes into play, too. some weapons relate closely to your empty hand movements, and others will force you to change the way you move completely (monk spade or kwandao, staff, broadsword, whip chain) all these have a very different approach to motion because your body is dictated by the way that the weapon is most effectively manipulated. that leads to my number one benefit for a good weapons base, and that's balance.

[karatekid1975]

I would love to learn the nunchaku if I had a choice of weapons. Actually, the bo (short and long) is pretty cool also. Because, like wertle said, it can train you to use personal items as weapons.

[Shinzu]

i have had the chance to learn the bo, sai, nunchaku, tonfa, and sword.

some training was formal while others were not. the weapon of my choice would have to be the nunchaku though.

it has always interested me the most.

[sweeper]

I practice FMA and JKD (same class) and we start off the FMA training with a double stick six count, I noticed it did realy help my coordination and it also got me to start looking at the person's body to read the angle instead of their hands(sticks). I think weapons training has alot of value for virtualy any application.

[Nightingale]

Personally, I love weapons. If you think about it, weapons like bo and escrima sticks can be found on the street in the forms of sticks or pipes. If I have the chance to pick up a weapon, I will.

knowing weapons is good, because it also lets you know what you could be up against. If you're a knife fighter, but are unarmed, you have a better chance against another armed knife fighter than you would have if you didn't know how to use a knife. You know what the weapon is capable of. Ditto for any other weapon. Also, if you can take a weapon away from your attacker, its better if you know what to do with it. Otherwise you have to get it away from both of you or your attacker may take it back.

[Blindside]

So how many people here who train with weapons spar with them, or some training facsimile?

Maybe use a light rattan stick or foam covered pvc instead of a sword. Sure the weight will be off, but do you train against a resisting opponent with these weapons? Alot of people who say they study weapons really don't, they can swing them around and strike air well, but don't have a clue to hit a moving opponent.

Am I turning this into a kata vs. kumite thread? That isn't my intention, I'm just curious how people train these weapons.

Lamont

[Wertle]

We train them in kata and embu, which are like a two-man exercise.

My school is very traditional, so we don't spar, but embu with weapons is helpful in seeing and responding to various weapons attacks. It's also helpful for seeing a broader range of use for the weapon. For example, when doing a kata with nunchaku, the main focus is on using it as a momentum weapon. In an embu, you get to practice its wrapping and grappling elements more.

Usually, when just learning a weapon, we go over how to hold it and manipulate it, and then practice blocking and striking in the 8 angles, and thrusting if its applicable to the weapon.

I think it's a very good question, and am interested in seeing how others train with them also.

[arnisador]

Absolutely--stick on stick and knife on kinife and emoty hand on knife mostly, but other combinations as well.

[hand2handCombat]

oh i think weapons arts are very important. hand to hand is an art that should always be there. but weapons, not all of them, like sword arts. stick and knofe are very importantr

[Shinzu]

i have done some staff vs. staff, but with other weapons it was pretty much solo.

i think if you had the proper protective gear on, two people could really go at it without someone getting seriously hurt.

[sweeper]

the knife sparring I have done has been more like point fighting because we usualy stop if you get a torso shot in, but stick sparring has more flow to it, we just go for 3 minuet rounds. Kinda fun but it's kinda scarry your first time.

[tonbo]

I like training with weapons as an extension of the empty hand material. I have found that it really helps to build coordination, strength, flexibility (depending on what weapons you are using, of course!), timing, coordination, etc.

My practice has included sticks, sword, nunchaku, staff, and sai. I do most of my work with sticks, currently, and am working with a partner. We are developing techniques and drills for the purpose of getting a more robust weapons program going at our school.

I would advise "sparring" with weapons, as long as there was a lot of padding involved (of both people and weapons), at least until there was a LOT of control involved--accidents still happen, no matter what the skill level, so I would also recommend not using "live" blades or really hard-wood sticks (stay with light rattan or foam when sparring).

Just my 2 cents' worth, anyway. Your mileage may vary.....

Peace--

[Cruentus]

is key in learning self defense.

I don't mean to step on the toes of those of you who may not integrate weapons into your training, but the fact remains that most real altercations involves the attacker trying to "one up" the victim, whether its simply just to boost his own ego, or something worse (robery, rape, etc.).

If an attacker doesn't think he can get what he wants EASILY w/ his empty hand, he will try to "one up" you (w/ friends, a gun, knife, club, tire iron, bottle, etc.)

So...if you don't train with how to handle weapons, improvise weapons by using your environment, an attacker who is armed, and situations involving any combination of the above, then you are missing a key aspect of self defense that may cost you your life.

Just my thoughts! :asian:

[Dronak]

I don't know a whole lot about the subject, but I'd think most training is useful in some way. Training with weapons obviously gives you some experience in handling them and knowing how they work. This means you'll be better able to use a weapon if you had to, but even if you never do, the knowledge of how a weapon works can be useful in knowing how to defend against it. A weapon is extra weight and provides some additional resistance while doing moves. It can help you learn to use your body better or in different ways. For example, part of our class was just learning a staff form and our teacher explained how we should be turning our waist and using that to help move the staff and power our strikes. Those are just a few points I can think of offhand at the moment.

[Shinzu]

all very good points here. training to defend against weapons is key in anyones training. learning to use them is another plus too.

even if my school does not teach a certain weapon that interests me, i will purchase and experiment with it. every little bit helps.

we work mostly with staff,dagger and nunchaku.