Self Training...

[shesulsa]

I have already said that i train with my bokken, not with my sword, why is it so hard for yall to get that? I only oil and cut stuff with my sword, typicaly boxes, mayby pool noodles every now and then. Gees yall sound like a brokken record, quit acting like i am training with my live blade, i'm not. thats the last time i'm saying that.

I do take saftey measurs to the best that i can, tomorrow i will be going to the Library to see if they have any books on iaido. (But i will still be training with my bokken. )
And the "master" in my name indicates master of wolves, not sword master, i already said that also.
Oh goodness. I quite honestly felt the thread had moved far beyond you, per se, and more towards the incredibly bad idea of self-"teaching" as a whole.

[Bob Hubbard]

I've got 8 books on sword arts on my book shelf. Good books, like "Flashing Steel: Mastering Eishin-Ryu Swordsmanship" by Masayuki Shimabukuro, Leonard J. Pellman and "Iai: The Art of Drawing the Sword" by Darrell Craig. I also have something in the area of 100+ clips, videos and tutorials on vhs/dvd/mpg covering sword arts. Most, require some prior understanding of things, and a few are well "advanced" in nature. Regardless, outside of being a nice reference, all of these are poor substitutes for a quality instructor.

As to bokken for sparring, not good. The ones I've used have a reputation for shattering when you least expect it. Are you wearing eye protection? How about padded gloves? Padded body armour? A cup? Mouth guards?

Safest way to spar is to use a padded stick, actionflex or SmakStiks both make excellent products for that, and they are affordable. I've also done the PVC pipe, pipe insulation and duct tape route. Hurts more, but, tends to be safer than wood, and definately safer than steel, live or not.

I train with my wooden bokken solo. I train partner drills with SmakStiks and ActionFlex. My $300 Practical Plus is currently been sitting in it's protective cover since I got it, though I have looked at it a few times. Not ready to wage war against the evil cardboard empire yet. ;) (I will however, admit to doing sinawallis with a spatha...it was wild). I also wear eye, hand, forearm and head protection. Just saying "We'll pull our shots" isn't enough. Accidents happen. Thats why they call them accidents.

[arnisador]

my unnamed detractor

I ran out of room to sign it. It was in response to this less-than-helpful comment:


i really dont think a 15 year old kid with the word "master" in his name, espousing self training for a serious study deserves a place in this forum.


I agree that learning any sort of martial arts from a book is usually not very effective. On the other hand, a chanbara sword and a DVD could keep him safe and motivated until a better option comes around. That seems like better advice than citing his age and telling him he doesn't 'deserve' a place here. It would certainly be more helpful...if one is honestly concerned for his safety. Being here and interacting with those more knowledgeable would surely provide the best result as compared to being sent away for being youthful and enthusiastic.

[shesulsa]

Even monkeys fall from trees.

[arnisador]

Safest way to spar is to use a padded stick, actionflex or SmakStiks both make excellent products for that, and they are affordable. I've also done the PVC pipe, pipe insulation and duct tape route. Hurts more, but, tends to be safer than wood, and definately safer than steel, live or not.

This is some useful advice. Padded sticks are better now than they used to be; you can get ones that have sufficient stiffness for the techniques you want to do but that still are unlikely to cause injury. (Eye goggles are always a good idea.) This allows experimentation, safely.

Training with wooden weapons is fine--as an arnisador, I do it constantly--but there's a difference betwen my light rattan sticks or even my (regular wood) daggers and a heavy, long, and unevenly weighted weapon like a bokken. A shinai is a better bet for that kind of sparring. The point about a bokken possibly shattering is an underappreciated point.

It might be helpful to provide some links for some of these products? I'm suggesting a video like this one (http://www.actionflex.com/info/longsword.htm) (there are others there) and a corresponding weapon (http://www.actionflex.com/sports/baton.htm) (though that one may be too short). It won't turn anyone into a master swordsman, but for teenagers playing with swords while they wait for the mobility and financial resources to pursue better training I think it's a step forward. They can go as hard as they like and will be able to learn what doesn't work. (Learning what does work is often the harder part.) I don't endorse learning-by-video for self-defense, but this is a different situation.

[BlackCatBonz]

I ran out of room to sign it. It was in response to this less-than-helpful comment:



I agree that learning any sort of martial arts from a book is usually not very effective. On the other hand, a chanbara sword and a DVD could keep him safe and motivated until a better option comes around. That seems like better advice than citing his age and telling him he doesn't 'deserve' a place here. It would certainly be more helpful...if one is honestly concerned for his safety. Being here and interacting with those more knowledgeable would surely provide the best result as compared to being sent away for being youthful and enthusiastic.

i am concerned with his safety.......i am more concerned that he is getting an audience from "trained experts" that are still arguing with him.
id like to contact his parents and ask them what the hell they think they are doing giving a kid a surgical sharp sword in the first place.
i dont want to motivate him to self learn.....want to self learn? try tai chi,calculus or algebra.......not kenjutsu.

[Ronin Wolf-master]

i am concerned with his safety.

you have a bad way of showing it.


id like to contact his parents and ask them what the hell they think they are doing giving a kid a surgical sharp sword in the first place.

Because they know me and trust me, and who the hell are you to say that thats wrong? (No disrespect meant, just using what he is saying.)

Thanks for the links, yes we do train with the bokkens against each other, but when we hit each other we stop the bokken so its not a full contact hit, just a light hit, enough to know you were hit, and the head is off limits. I have a Guijo bokken from http://whiteheronblades.com/bokken.html
Never heard of them shattering. I will be going to the library tomorrow to see about some sword books, hopefully some iaijutsu books. (and some alchemy books.) When i get some more $$ i will see about getting some shinai, but for now i have to use the bokken.


Ronin Wolf-master

[Bob Hubbard]

when we hit each other we stop the bokken so its not a full contact hit, just a light hit, enough to know you were hit, and the head is off limits.

When we do stick drills with rattan, then head is also off limits. So are the hands. I've lost track of the number of hand shots I've taken, and ended up with a mild concussion once from a full force head shot that would have crushed my left eye socket if I hadn't been wearing safety glasses. These were suffered while training with experienced players (though the concussion was self inflicted due to a ricochet). I've also had the pleasure of listening to some morons (ok, dumbasses) explain that they don't need face masks playing paintball since they won't "aim at the face". Those "smarties" tend to suffer a lot of eye injuries for some reason. As SL indicated above, even when going light, people do get hurt.

My point is, even when practicing under controled circumstances, with experienced people, you can get hurt. Wood splinters, and a splinter in the eye can **** you up for life. Busted fingers will end a career fast, and make later years quite uncomfortable, painful even. If you insist on playing on your own, do yourself a favor and wear properly rated eye protection, and get some padding. Hockey gloves at least will save your fingers some major problems. Remember, a busted hand means, you won't be able to hold that sword down the road.

Safe training, is smart training.

[Ronin Wolf-master]

yeah that is the only problem that ever happens is getting hit in the knucke, man it hurts. :tantrum: (lol) i will try to get some gloves, but i dont really thing i would need the glasess, cuase we dont even aim for the head, but its not a bad idea. ( I know what you mean about those morons that play paintball, then they wonder why they are blind... :whip: )
But i will have to wait till my Birthday before i can get any of this, cause i only have $10.00, wich will probly go for either more sword oil, or maybe some Yu-Gi-Oh! cards, i have not bought any in decades. (months)
but i will definatly see what i can do about the gloves, i did wear some gloves one time, it still hurt but not as bad, would probly help if my bokken had a plastick tsuba.

[Bob Hubbard]

If you have one near you, try a used sports gear shop, goodwill, amvets, etc. Good for banging, even when it aint pretty.

[shesulsa]

you have a bad way of showing it.
Are you sure you don't just have a bad way of listening?

Earnestly, now. Maybe your parents trust you and all, but ya know? Unless they are trained in sword arts or other weapons, could they really be that qualified to judge just how dangerous doing what you're doing really is? because I'd have to say the majority of the respondents here might not think so.

Understand that it is our duty as trained martial artists to point out safety issues to others in precisely this situation. Your lack of willingness to accept the advice lends to a poor training attitude.

[Ronin Wolf-master]

I will probly order off the internet.... unless we go to P'cola.

I am excepting advice, but not someone gripping at me, and sertinly not someone talking about my parents like he did.
They trust and know me, the poeple here dont really know me, and apprently dont trust me, and as long as i am with my parrents, they are the judges.

[arnisador]

Steal some goggles from the chemistry lab. They're important! Gloves are a good idea too. Boxing or hockey gloves are what many arnis players use.

Hard wood can break, and when it does, splinters can fly. Definitely look into the shinai. As Mr. Hubbard mentions, even experts get hurt. I know a certain datu with a nasty scar along his inner upper arm...

[shesulsa]

Steal some goggles from the chemistry lab. They're important!
No, don't steal anything. Kindly explain the situation to the lab professor and ask if he has a spare pair he could donate to your cause because safety is so important to you.

[Makalakumu]

Ronin

There has been some good advice about working out safely given in this thread. Check out the suggested tapes and equipment and see if there is a store where it can be purchased. My advice to you is to talk to your parents about this stuff and see if they can get it off the internet for you. I suggest this for two reasons...

1. Your parents will KNOW that you are taking this seriously and attempting to be as safe as possible. This is important because it may go a long way in convincing them to help you possibly find someone to teach you. Even if you were to take an art like aikido which is based on some swordwork, you'd get more from practicing with your friends.

2. It is much easier to get some of this stuff off the internet. Most martial arts supply stores don't carry much stuff or they only sell it to the students who go to the dojos that are usually attached to it. Most people get their martial arts equipment from the internet nowdays, sorry to say.

Good luck

upnorthkyosa

[splice42]

i dont really thing i would need the glasess, cuase we dont even aim for the head, but its not a bad idea. ( I know what you mean about those morons that play paintball, then they wonder why they are blind... :whip: )
So those people who play paintball and don't wear goggles or a mask because they don't aim for the head are morons, yet you don't really think you need safety glasses when fighting with wooden sticks because... you don't aim for the head?

Aren't you precious. You certainly don't seem to be considering the advice of others very seriously.

Perhaps your purpose in life may just be to serve as an example for others. In that way you may yet do some good.

[KenpoTess]

Assist. Admin Note

We here at MT don't like to close down threads as some good information can be gleaned from them. But with the advent of the personal sniping going on, this thread is now Locked.

Take it offline and keep the personal issues elsewhere.

Thank you,

~Tess
-MT Assist. Admin