Cardio karate???

[bluemtn]

Ok, what on earth is it?!? Is it just another name for Tae Bo, or is it actually a martial art? My previous instructor is planning to do this for his women's only class, because no one would stick with the self defense (for reasons I can see, but I'm not really willing to share). It might be a good move for him. I just wanted to know what is up with that kind of class, what's involved, etc.

Thanks for any and all input.

[Henderson]

What is it?..............








:bs:
THAT'S what it is!

[hongkongfooey]

Aerobics.

[MJS]

Ok, what on earth is it?!? Is it just another name for Tae Bo, or is it actually a martial art? My previous instructor is planning to do this for his women's only class, because no one would stick with the self defense (for reasons I can see, but I'm not really willing to share). It might be a good move for him. I just wanted to know what is up with that kind of class, what's involved, etc.

Thanks for any and all input.

LOL, Henderson pretty much summed it up, but I'll elaborate a bit more.

Yes, it is along the lines of Tae Bo. Its fine if someone wants a cardio workout, but the majority of the time its billed or gives the impression that SD will actually be taught in the classes. The person teaching, usually does not have a Martial Art background, so the people in the class will most likely be throwing kicks and punches incorrectly against a target. This IMO can lead to some serious injury.

Personally, if someone had to pick which one to offer, I'd rather see people go with a SD class. Then again, depending on what kind of material is being taught, that class can be just as bad.

I hope that this answered some of your questions.

Mike

[arnisador]

Is this like Nia?

[Jonathan Randall]

Ok, what on earth is it?!? Is it just another name for Tae Bo, or is it actually a martial art? My previous instructor is planning to do this for his women's only class, because no one would stick with the self defense (for reasons I can see, but I'm not really willing to share). It might be a good move for him. I just wanted to know what is up with that kind of class, what's involved, etc.

Thanks for any and all input.

While most cardio style MA (not really MA, are they?) programs are no good, IMO, SOME are taught by experienced Karate teachers and use correct technique. I know that one highly respected EPAK teacher in the area teaches a cardio class at times, and I can't imagine him teaching crap and a local kickboxing gym has a cardio class that has decent mechanics taught and practiced. However, neither are fighting arts in the same way that traditional MA or self-defence classes are.

[green meanie]

While most cardio style MA (not really MA, are they?) programs are no good, IMO, SOME are taught by experienced Karate teachers and use correct technique. I know that one highly respected EPAK teacher in the area teaches a cardio class at times, and I can't imagine him teaching crap and a local kickboxing gym has a cardio class that has decent mechanics taught and practiced. However, neither are fighting arts in the same way that traditional MA or self-defence classes are.

That's what I've seen too. The places around here that advertise 'Cardio Karate' or 'Cardio Kickboxing' are people who are running the martial arts school / fitness center combo. They're offering regular lessons, gym memberships, and this abomination that falls somewhere in the middle.

[kenpo0324]

Yes, it is along the lines of Tae Bo. Its fine if someone wants a cardio workout thats great,Our school tryed to run some classes and it dident' pan out for him, So our Instructor got rid of it..Far as I can tell it's the latest crazy in Cardio workout classes..

[chinto01]

The dojo that I previously attended offers cardio karate. It is along the same lines as Tae bo and the other aerobic workouts. Once this was brought into that dojo the transformation to a commercial school was complete.

In the spirit of bushido!

Rob

[arnisador]

An instructor I know is being pushed more and more toward cardio workout classes by his clientele...the Kung Fu and FMA classes are stagnant, but Cardio Kickboxing is taking off for him. That's the market segment he reaches...

[Andrew Green]

It's one hell of workout ;)

Depending on who is running it and how these classes can completely drain you and leave you sore for a few days, even when you thought you where in good shape :D

Basically it is more like a kickboxing class where you never get hit at and the cardio elements are emphasized. If you watch the Tae Bo stuff you can see him adding twists and squats and things that change the range of motion to make it a little more intensive as a workout, if not practical. You will also see the posture change, if it's fitness orientated you'd keep a straighter back, head up and not shrug your shoulders up to protect your jaw. Better for fitness, not as much for fighting.

But if you got any doubts try a established class, with a group of participants that have been at it a while, you may find yourself gasping for air while they continue punching away ;)

[Navarre]

I think the "cardio" part of it is fitting but the "karate" can be misleading. If taught by a qualified martial arts instructor, that's fine. Otherwise, it's just a good workout.

Our school has classes for it. The attendance is good and people enjoy it.

It has also brought some ppl who originally came only to the cardio classes into our regular martial arts sessions. Anything that develops interest in the martial arts and leads ppl in the right direction is good.

[arnisador]

From a business point of view, it's a great add-on for a martial arts instructor. You can fit it in to just about any art with some imagination and get the fitness/weight loss segment that doesn't want to get hit. As long as it isn't marketed as self-defense but rather as merely having some self-defense benefits, I have no problem with it.

[bluemtn]

Thanks everyone. As I said before, he originally had a "self defense" class, but it wasn't popular at all, and he really didn't do much when it came to teaching SD. It became a women's only TKD class, just labelled women's SD.

There's another guy that teaches cardio kickboxing closer to where I live who was a MAist (maybe he still is- don't know). I think they're a great workout- I loved doing it; however, it was labled as a workout class, nothing more.

[Navarre]

however, it was labled as a workout class, nothing more.

And that makes it very honest and appropriate. I participated in the cardio-karate classes at our school solely to increase my fitness level (which it did!). I reserved my MA training for the MA class.

We started using the name because of popular convention. However, we always spend time before enrolling a potential student explaining what the class would and would not offer.

No one should have a black belt in Cardio-Karate-Do.

[Dalum]

Yeah, my exwife joined one of them and got kicked out. It was a pretty good story. She used to teach with me a few years back (when we were still together) and she joined up with this group last year some time. Her technique was scarring the people there that were just trying to get into the swing of things. She had gained weight rapidly since our child being born (a while ago) and along with our divorce, she couldn't shake it. She took to the "form" right away with the kicking and punching without issue. I thought that was cool. Her form was so good that she was looking better than the instructor. I think it was a bit of envy, who knows. Either way, she wasn't asked to come back. I just told her that it was a good pointer that she has what it takes to drop what she needs to and she didn't need a watered "style" to achieve what she needed.

And yes... It it one helluva workout.

[Andrew Green]

What was the "official" reason she was given?

Seems odd to kick someone out for being good....

[Navarre]

So, Dalum, did your ex-wife move on to something else to achieve her weight loss goal or how did that work out for her?

My wife is getting ready (mentally that is) to join a gym here for weight loss purposes. I'm joining with her for motivation and to get what exercise I can considering my physical condition.

The gym has a kickboxing class listed once a week. I don't know anything about this class but I'm going to check it out.

I'll be interested to see how qualified the instructor really is. My guess is that it's a cardio class involving some hand mitts and a heavy bag.

[Dalum]

She was "asked" not to return. That's all she told me. As she is my ex-wife we don't do too much of the niceties too often.

Honestly, I think that if it was about her have great form and looking like an intimidating bear then I think it's sad that someone would pull that kind of crap just because it makes the instructor look bad.

I hold Cardio Karate/Tae Bo/any other "style" just like real Martial Arts... Check it out and be sure it's legit enough to work out to. If it's some unseasoned, overweight, obviously non-cardio workout guy looking to make a buck then I'd say skip it. If you've got some annoying Billy Blanks look alike that can go till the break of dawn doing cardio, then stick with em. They may (or may not) be a great Martial Artist by any means but they are filling the gap of what you are looking for. Let us know what you find!

[TigerWoman]

Just another name for kickboxing, workout style. Although all of these classes are not the same so its wise not to lump all together as either good or bad. Some are aerobic teachers variations aka whatever tape they can incorporate, or some are martial art oriented taught by black belts. What all of them really do, is give a good workout. If it gets couch potatoes off their derrieres and gets them in the dojang door, what's hurt in that? Alot of these students become empowered and interested in the real program that way. TW

[Dalum]

Just another name for kickboxing, workout style. Although all of these classes are not the same so its wise not to lump all together as either good or bad. Some are aerobic teachers variations aka whatever tape they can incorporate, or some are martial art oriented taught by black belts. What all of them really do, is give a good workout. If it gets couch potatoes off their derrieres and gets them in the dojang door, what's hurt in that? Alot of these students become empowered and interested in the real program that way. TW

The only problem is when your get the ones "empowered" and use Tae Bo or some other Cadio-whatsis as something to list as experience in their MA Resume. I've heard of girls saying that they can take someone because of Billy Blanks. Not the kind of thing to be touting. It just reminds me of Tommy Nitro's Balck Belt Kit. LOL!

In seriousness though, this is a nice tool to get your butt whooped in the cardio area. I may laugh at it when compared to letgitimate styles but it still has it's own legitimacies.

[SportKarate]

I actually started a similar thread here.

http://www.martialweb.com/forums/Topic6-18-1.aspx

I just really started cardio kickboxing last month and I'm loving it. It's very different from a regular martial arts class but for those of you have not tried it, I'd highly recommend it...with a good intructor of course.

[MJS]

It just reminds me of Tommy Nitro's Balck Belt Kit. LOL!

LOL, funny you should mention that. You might find this thread interesting.

http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=27238

[MJS]

I certainly do not dispute the fact that you'll get a good workout. I just feel that if this program is offered at a school that also teaches a regular MA class, the difference between the two should be made very clear.

Mike

[Jonathan Randall]

Just another name for kickboxing, workout style. Although all of these classes are not the same so its wise not to lump all together as either good or bad. Some are aerobic teachers variations aka whatever tape they can incorporate, or some are martial art oriented taught by black belts. What all of them really do, is give a good workout. If it gets couch potatoes off their derrieres and gets them in the dojang door, what's hurt in that? Alot of these students become empowered and interested in the real program that way. TW

Very true. I personally found that Kathy Smith's Kickboxing (techniques demonstrated by a real martial artist, Keith Cook) has some sound technique with good combinations. Keith Cook keeps his elbows in, guard up and has proper form (many of the other people on the tape don't, but that's ok with me because I watch Cook). This workout is decent, even for experienced martial artists.

[Jonathan Randall]

I certainly do not dispute the fact that you'll get a good workout. I just feel that if this program is offered at a school that also teaches a regular MA class, the difference between the two should be made very clear.

Mike

Actually, in two schools I visited during the Tae Bo craze, the instructors DID make the difference clear and in my favourite, Kathy Smith's Kickboxing Workout DVD, the martial arts demonstrator says bluntly at the beginning that this is not a self-defence program. However, unlike Tae Bo, which sometimes, IMO, implies that it does teach some self-defence, the Smith workout actually has some combinations that would be useful in self-defence.

[arnisador]

Actually, in two schools I visited during the Tae Bo craze, the instructors DID make the difference clear and in my favourite, Kathy Smith's Kickboxing Workout DVD, the martial arts demonstrator says bluntly at the beginning that this is not a self-defence program.

I'm glad to hear that. False advertising is always a concern here.

[Jonathan Randall]

I'm glad to hear that. False advertising is always a concern here.

Yes, and unfortunately in the non-martial art's studio run program I visited (shopping for a friend), the instructor, who would not have qualified as a yellow belt at any decent school, said that the class she taught at the gym was a great way to get in shape and learn self-defence at the same time. :idunno:

[Cujo]

A place for everything and everything in it's place. If you want to learn self-defense, make sure thats what is being taught. If you want a cardio workout, thats great also, but, if you are afraid of being hit in the controlled environment of the dojo, you are gonna freak when it happens for real on the street.

Pax
Cujo

[green meanie]

However, unlike Tae Bo, which sometimes, IMO, implies that it does teach some self-defence, the Smith workout actually has some combinations that would be useful in self-defence.

It doesn't help matters when Century was selling Tae Bo black belts as an essential part of the Tae Bo product line. :(

[RichK]

To all of those that are waiving the BS sign; you may only be speaking of a class or two in your area or just speaking without knowing. Yes there are places out there that are touting it as SD. Yes there are people just trying to teach it because they are an MA instructor, but are just jumping up and down. Cardio Kickboxing became a trademark name by a friend of mine. He co-created it with a partner who had it registered. Marcus has a very extensive military and martial arts background. He is now back in Hawaii with Homeland Security. He has always applauded scools that call themselves Tae Bo or Cardio Karate if they are not affiliated with him. He has been a kickboxer and does explain to people the difference between the CK class and SD, most people that say they are running a CK class know nothing about kick-boxing. His website is not the greatest but it is very informative.

http://www.cardiokickboxing.com/index.htm

[Dalum]

To all of those that are waiving the BS sign; you may only be speaking of a class or two in your area or just speaking without knowing. Yes there are places out there that are touting it as SD. Yes there are people just trying to teach it because they are an MA instructor, but are just jumping up and down. Cardio Kickboxing became a trademark name by a friend of mine. He co-created it with a partner who had it registered. Marcus has a very extensive military and martial arts background. He is now back in Hawaii with Homeland Security. He has always applauded scools that call themselves Tae Bo or Cardio Karate if they are not affiliated with him. He has been a kickboxer and does explain to people the difference between the CK class and SD, most people that say they are running a CK class know nothing about kick-boxing. His website is not the greatest but it is very informative.

http://www.cardiokickboxing.com/index.htm

Very informative read! The Fake Schools "rant" sounds like there was a straw and a camel involved.

[MJS]

To all of those that are waiving the BS sign; you may only be speaking of a class or two in your area or just speaking without knowing. Yes there are places out there that are touting it as SD. Yes there are people just trying to teach it because they are an MA instructor, but are just jumping up and down. Cardio Kickboxing became a trademark name by a friend of mine. He co-created it with a partner who had it registered. Marcus has a very extensive military and martial arts background. He is now back in Hawaii with Homeland Security. He has always applauded scools that call themselves Tae Bo or Cardio Karate if they are not affiliated with him. He has been a kickboxer and does explain to people the difference between the CK class and SD, most people that say they are running a CK class know nothing about kick-boxing. His website is not the greatest but it is very informative.

http://www.cardiokickboxing.com/index.htm

Could you explain the difference between the way your friend conducts his classes, compared to what we typically see that is billed as Cardio Kickboxing, Cardio Karate or Tae Bo?

Mike

[RichK]

MJS, thanks, I meant to do that but had to get out of the house and the kids kept asking me other questions. My wife had joined Curves and was working out there until she came in one night while I was teaching and ended up working over with someone and she watched Marcus' class. The following week she jumped in and told me it was much more intense than what she was previously doing. She stopped after he left in Nov. He does and teaches just about the same thing as Billy Blanks, but because he was a kickboxer he goes into those routines but with a very high speed pace. Classes were 3 times a week and he varied them. Two nights were cardio and one night was strength and bagwork. He used the big rubber bands for strength work. Billy Blanks called his stuff TaeBo instead of kickboxing since he was not a kickboxer. Another acquaintance of mine that has an Aikido school started up a Cardio Karate class back in 97. Mostly they are all the same as long as the class is geared cardio wise and kept at a fast pace. Even teaching something new added in there is taught up to speed. I knew when Billy Blanks came out with TaeBo there were "certified instructors" that were not certified popping up all over the place. Heck I even take my Suburi<SP> training (meditating sword cutting) and speed it up to give me an aerobic/anaerobic workout. Strength part from weilding a boken and cardio from speeding it up.

[bluemtn]

Thanks for the link, RichK. More informative about it than some of the other websites I came across.

[RichK]

You are welcome. Email Marcus if you have any questions about what to look for at a particular school and I am sure he will give you his insight. Might take him awhile as from what I understand he is working long hours.

[TigerWoman]

Very true. I personally found that Kathy Smith's Kickboxing (techniques demonstrated by a real martial artist, Keith Cook) has some sound technique with good combinations. Keith Cook keeps his elbows in, guard up and has proper form (many of the other people on the tape don't, but that's ok with me because I watch Cook). This workout is decent, even for experienced martial artists.

Of about ten tapes or so I looked at, that was my favorite too. Only thing was that they didn't use bags at all. I tried that workout in a class for awhile as an alternate to the bag workout, but interest dwindled on it. Actually if technique is done correctly and at the right tempo, its a pretty good cardiovascular workout.

I went back to the bag workout of which some of the exercises should I say, like low sidekicks (for the knee), or headbutt-knee-backkick, are practice for self-defense. The last fifteen minutes of my class, I go over self defense technique. Or it can be sparring combinations on the bag and later goes into sparring. This is a community ed class. So, they know they aren't earning a belt, but (1) they do know it takes work to get into condition to be able to defend themselves or spar and (2) they know it takes practice to be able to defend yourself or spar. Quite a few have gone on and joined the regular program because I only teach them basic self-defense and tell them they have to join to be able to learn the rest. TW