Grasp Of Death

[jfarnsworth]

Sorry I haven't been able to keep up with the technique of the week theme. I've been really busy at home lately with a few personal things at home. As best as I can tell the next on the list to discuss is the Grasp of Death. Does anyone have any good ideas to add to and share with the rest of us? Are there any (dis)likes to this technique? Thank you to all who participate.
Jason Farnsworth

[Klondike93]

The leg pinch. I did this and got a knee in the face for my effort. It was in class, but the student brought their knee up in reaction to the leg pinch I did. As an alternative I was told to grab right behind the right knee, then step forward and put the arm in the arm bar.


:asian:

[Goldendragon7]

Originally posted by Klondike93
The leg pinch. I did this and got a knee in the face for my effort. It was in class, but the student brought their knee up in reaction to the leg pinch I did.


Ouch....... lol..... did you forget to check the opponents leg with your leg on the first move....

at least you know why we have "checks" now 1st hand...

:rofl:

Experience is the best teacher they say..

:asian:

[WilliamTLear]

Originally posted by jfarnsworth

Sorry I haven't been able to keep up with the technique of the week theme. I've been really busy at home lately with a few personal things at home. As best as I can tell the next on the list to discuss is the Grasp of Death. Does anyone have any good ideas to add to and share with the rest of us? Are there any (dis)likes to this technique? Thank you to all who participate.
Jason Farnsworth

I've seen the "Pinch" done a few different ways.

#1. Pinch to the inside of your opponent's thigh... Ouch!

#2. Horse Bite to the inside of your opponent's thigh... Ooouch!!

#3. Grab your opponent's testicles and smash them in your hand... Ooooooooooooooouch!!!

I know that the basic technique calls for a simple pinch on your opponent's thigh, but I'll go for the groin, especially if the guy (someone other than my drunk uncle Bob) is really trying to harm me.

What is your preference?

[satans.barber]

I've never pinched or bitten anyone on this technique, maybe I do it differently to everyone else.

Here's how we do it:

from a right headlock:

1. immediately turn the head to the left
2. step forwards with the right foot and plant it on an angle, and shuffle with the left foot so the left knee impacts the back of their right thigh
3. simultaneously strike the groin and left kidney with 2 inwards hammerfists
4. slide the left hand over the shoulder and under the neck, then lever the head backwards as you straighten up
5. palm heel to the chin

that's nothing official, I just typed it. Where do you guys insert a bite or pinch?

Ian.

[ProfessorKenpo]

Originally posted by satans.barber

I've never pinched or bitten anyone on this technique, maybe I do it differently to everyone else.

Here's how we do it:

from a right headlock:

1. immediately turn the head to the left
2. step forwards with the right foot and plant it on an angle, and shuffle with the left foot so the left knee impacts the back of their right thigh
3. simultaneously strike the groin and left kidney with 2 inwards hammerfists
4. slide the left hand over the shoulder and under the neck, then lever the head backwards as you straighten up
5. palm heel to the chin

that's nothing official, I just typed it. Where do you guys insert a bite or pinch?

Ian.

That's an orange belt technique called GRIP of Death. They are two seperate techniques.

Have a great Kenpo day

Clyde

[WilliamTLear]

Originally posted by satans.barber

I've never pinched or bitten anyone on this technique, maybe I do it differently to everyone else.

Here's how we do it:

from a right headlock:

1. immediately turn the head to the left
2. step forwards with the right foot and plant it on an angle, and shuffle with the left foot so the left knee impacts the back of their right thigh
3. simultaneously strike the groin and left kidney with 2 inwards hammerfists
4. slide the left hand over the shoulder and under the neck, then lever the head backwards as you straighten up
5. palm heel to the chin

that's nothing official, I just typed it. Where do you guys insert a bite or pinch?

Ian.

The technique you are talking about is GRIP OF DEATH... a different technique all together...

A horse bite is an actual pinch utilizing the enitre hand instead of just the index finger and thumb.

[matthewgreenland]

Grip of Death like the others have said....

The pinch is for GRASP of Death -

Back to the "Grasp."

As far as the knee in the face, well - "Time heels all wounds."
I like to land in a wide kneel with my rear leg across their calf muscle. This prevents their leg from disengaging from the gound.

Also, the pinch is effective. I have also executed a snapping ridge hand (reverse hand sword) to the Testicles. This strike hinges at the elbow. The elbow hinge is the key. If you don't, you will be blocked by the buttocks - or Coccyx (base of the spine). If you extend the crook of your elbow into the Coccyx, and naturally bend the elbow up, you will, incidentally, run into the Testicles.

I enjoy stepping around onto the lead leg of your attacker. Then, when shifting into your forward bow for the punch, you can dislocate the knee as your lead leg delivers pressure into the inside of the knee.

Just a thought...

[Chronuss]

Sorry. I did not realise Chronuss was logged on.

[Seig]

This is what I worte, s Chronuss. I didn't realize he was logged onto my system.
In Grip Of Death, I use the horse bite to the upper inner thigh. What I use for the pinch is what I think is a slight variation. I use a technique I was taught in Samurai Jiu-Jitsu called a Koshi Grab. Essentially, it is this, you grab the flesh with the flats of your finger tips and grip it tightly against your palm and move it back and forth, causing a flesh tear. Even done lightly, it can be excrutiating.

[satans.barber]

Originally posted by WilliamTLear



The technique you are talking about is GRIP OF DEATH... a different technique all together...

A horse bite is an actual pinch utilizing the enitre hand instead of just the index finger and thumb.

Ahh, that'd explain it!

I'll crawl back in my hole now :rolleyes:

Ian.

[jfarnsworth]

I seen satans.barber and the use of grip of death. Either technique work just fine. In our curriculum Grasp of Death name was changed to The Pincher. I never really thought about it until now maybe this is where you can distinguish between the two a little easier. I don't know any thoughts. It's the same tech. but a different name. Our class is taught with the pinch to the leg. I have found it much easier for me to take my thumb and drive it downward diagonal to the hollow of the knee. This has been some interesting talk so far.
Jason Farnsworth

[brianhunter]

Originally posted by WilliamTLear




What is your preference?





I like a groin shot! they are bent over exposing it so crush them like grapes!

[arnisador]

Originally posted by WilliamTLear

#1. Pinch to the inside of your opponent's thigh... Ouch!


I was taught this by a kung fu instructor and found it very effective. For a while Mr. Hartman stopped closing with me because he knew if he got me in tight I'd pinch the inner thigh.

[kenmpoka]

Pinching has really never worked for me. I have small hands, and against a bigger opponent with muscular leg, it is ineffective. I go for the groin pinch or ridge hand strike, or using my left knee to put pressure on the right leg and straighten up my back at the same time. This will check the height and loosens up the grab. From here,either step forward with left or step back with right leg to finish up.

Respectfully,
:asian:

[arnisador]

I find the pinch works well as long as one remembers to use the tips, not pads, of the fingers--that's the big trick for a two-finger pinch. I just get some skin for the "ouch" effect--the distraction--I don't ry to damage the muscle. It mightn't work against someone determined or drunk/high and I wouldn't try it then but it's very distracting otherwise and will certainly loosen a grip (or grasp, whichever this was :D).

[satans.barber]

Originally posted by jfarnsworth

I seen satans.barber and the use of grip of death. Either technique work just fine. In our curriculum Grasp of Death name was changed to The Pincher. I never really thought about it until now maybe this is where you can distinguish between the two a little easier. I don't know any thoughts. It's the same tech. but a different name. Our class is taught with the pinch to the leg. I have found it much easier for me to take my thumb and drive it downward diagonal to the hollow of the knee. This has been some interesting talk so far.
Jason Farnsworth

Ahha, now you're talking my language! I know The Pincher, I didn't know that it was originally called something else though.

For the record, we use a ridge hand strike first, and then a straight forefinger and thumb pinch.

You can apply a nice lock at the end as well, although not everyone in our school does this. I don't know if you guys do or not.

Grip of Death isn't actually in our syllabus, we were doing it in lieu of Escape from Death, there'd just been some confusion somewhere. They're both very similar though, and I do like them.

Ian.

[ProfessorKenpo]

Originally posted by satans.barber



Ahha, now you're talking my language! I know The Pincher, I didn't know that it was originally called something else though.

For the record, we use a ridge hand strike first, and then a straight forefinger and thumb pinch.

You can apply a nice lock at the end as well, although not everyone in our school does this. I don't know if you guys do or not.

Grip of Death isn't actually in our syllabus, we were doing it in lieu of Escape from Death, there'd just been some confusion somewhere. They're both very similar though, and I do like them.

Ian.

You are doing Grip of Death for a side flank headlock in lieu of Escape from Death for a Rear right arm choke? How does that work?

Have a great Kenpo day

Clyde

[satans.barber]

Originally posted by ProfessorKenpo



You are doing Grip of Death for a side flank headlock in lieu of Escape from Death for a Rear right arm choke? How does that work?

Have a great Kenpo day

Clyde

No, we do The Pincher and Escape from Death as two seperate techniques, it's just that when us higher belts got to Escape from Death we were accidentally taught Grip of Death, but we didn't know until Phil spotted us doing the wrong one!

If you like, we just ended up learning an extra technique that's not on the syallabus is all. The funny thing is we'd already graded on it before he noticed!

Ian.

[WilliamTLear]

Originally posted by satans.barber



No, we do The Pincher and Escape from Death as two seperate techniques, it's just that when us higher belts got to Escape from Death we were accidentally taught Grip of Death, but we didn't know until Phil spotted us doing the wrong one!

If you like, we just ended up learning an extra technique that's not on the syallabus is all. The funny thing is we'd already graded on it before he noticed!

Ian.

Don't crawl into your hole... You might get stuck, and I like reading your posts most of the time. :lol:

I understand the confusion now. No biggie!

Take Care,
Billy Lear

[Klondike93]

The Pincher is what it's called at the school I go to also, but I learned as Grasp of Death first, no biggie just a name.

No I didn't check the leg, should have known better and checked it. It's because of this possible reaction that he teaches to grab/pinch the back of the right knee. It not only forces the attacker outward but also down. It's nice to know all these extra ways of doing this though :)


:asian:

[satans.barber]

I'm intrigued to know who first changed the name from 'Grasp of Death' to 'The Pincher' now?

If it's in my own system as The Pincher, I can guess at a few people who might've changed it, but does anyone know for certain?

It's not that important, just wondering how things have filtered down that's all.

Ian.

[jfarnsworth]

Hey, that's another interesting question. I also learned this as the grasp of death then one day my instructor came in the room and said I'm changing this one to the pincher now. At that time who was I to judge and actually I could have cared less it's the same technique just a different name. Until now!! did I realize that maybe someone decided to change it due to the confusion (possibly) between the two and being taught somewhat close together. I don't know, it's just a thought. The pincher seems like it would fit a little better though. The way I perform this tech. with the thumb in the hollow of the knee is more as a strike to drop them down to one knee or close to it. I definately like the strike the testicle version. After the years I've spent in kenpo that didn't even occur to me until reading some of your posts. Thanks guys for sharing some kenpo knowledge:D :) .
Jason Farnsworth

[satans.barber]

Originally posted by jfarnsworth

Hey, that's another interesting question. I also learned this as the grasp of death then one day my instructor came in the room and said I'm changing this one to the pincher now. At that time who was I to judge and actually I could have cared less it's the same technique just a different name. Until now!! did I realize that maybe someone decided to change it due to the confusion (possibly) between the two and being taught somewhat close together. I don't know, it's just a thought. The pincher seems like it would fit a little better though. The way I perform this tech. with the thumb in the hollow of the knee is more as a strike to drop them down to one knee or close to it. I definately like the strike the testicle version. After the years I've spent in kenpo that didn't even occur to me until reading some of your posts. Thanks guys for sharing some kenpo knowledge:D :) .
Jason Farnsworth

The only problem I can see with putting your thumb into that hollow is that if their reaction is to bend the leg (an autonomous reaction often removes a target, in this case if you bend the leg then the back of the knee becomes hidden) then you might get your hand trapped, which wouldn't be a good thing....especially if they crumpled to the floor from the ridgehand to the 'nads you just gave them!

I suppose it'd depend if your practiced it as a little jabbing strike with the thumb, or if you actually put your thumb on the pressure point and pushed.

Just a thought,

Ian.

[jfarnsworth]

it's just how you described more like a jab. Strike then circle your arm over top and finish the rest of the technique.
Jason Farnsworth

[Klondike93]

I had been told that it was originally called The Pincher then changed to Grasp of Death, but when I first learned it the name was Grasp of Death. Couldn't tell you why the name change either (GD insert comment here).





:asian:

[Goldendragon7]

Originally posted by Klondike93
I had been told that it was originally called The Pincher then changed to Grasp of Death.


The name was changed from The Pincher to The Grasp of Death.



Why the name change?


The name was changed to conform to the Web of Knowledge better ie. name which leads to what may happen ("Choke" = Death ) vs the Pincher..... just a defensive maneuver.

:asian:

[Klondike93]

I knew you'd know :D


:asian:

[satans.barber]

Cool, thanks :)

Ian.

[kenpo3631]

Remember that there is the factor that Parker developed Kenpo on the west coast, where it is always warm. People for the most part where lite clothing. The "pinch" in the Pincher technique worked well for the environment.

I think as Parker Kenpo made its way to the midwest and east coast (where it get allot colder), there was a need to adapt the "pinch" for the thicker clothing and other environmental considerations..hench the different variations for the intial "pinch"...:D

Doc, Goldendragon, Clyde, anyone....any thoughts?:asian:

[Goldendragon7]

Originally posted by kenpo3631
I think as Parker Kenpo made its way to the midwest and east coast (where it get allot colder), there was a need to adapt the "pinch" (in the Pincher or The Grasp of Death) for the thicker clothing and other environmental considerations..hench the different variations for the intial "pinch"...:D


Personal opinion.......... No. However, it is possible. We have been taught that, no matter where he developed any of the techniques there are many "Kenpo Tools" that must be taken into consideration when the curriculum goes beyond the base stage of introduction. As we acquire deeper understandings of the techniques we should realize that no matter how the initial base technique is taught at the beginner level......... the advanced student "moves on" to the realm of application in reality and that involves adjustment due to many factors..... one of which is environment, then range etc. and many other what ifs...... We are then taught to alter the base movement with a more logical or useful element that suites the actual salutation. That may be a change of weapon, target or even both. (Examine the Formulation Equation).

During Mr. Parker's travels he taught all these elements but the way in which he taught them was in my opinion not always clear. He did have a base of techniques that he worked from however he did not want everyone to be "Locked In" to the base ONLY so he Formulated often as examples....... some of these examples have now resulted in the BASE for many individuals which is why we have slight variances in the Base curriculums. (That's been my observation and experience anyways). All these techniques can be used effectively and were taught by Ed Parker to someone. However, he didn't always make it clear to some individuals (apparently) that what he was showing them was a "version" or "variation" of his base curriculums due to a question asked like the one stated above about climate and clothing. The individuals did the technique as shown and it became a part of their personal system. Uniquely what has happened in many cases is that same student at some future date has moved out of the "cold climate" but took his system with him and now while in Florida he is teaching the same thing down south! LOL This has happened over and over and over...... all still good techniques but it did hamper the standardization of the Base.

Regardless, we still have a great system and many thousands of great practitioners.

The Flame still burns on ........ even though from different burners.
Viva La American Kenpo:rofl:

:asian:

[WilliamTLear]

Why not teach the most effective method that can be used in most environments?

I wanna see Kenpo performed outside in Northern Alaska... You know with the snowshoes on and everything! That would be great. Matter of fact I'd like to see anykind of fight take place in that environment.

Interesting,
Billy Lear

[kenpo3631]

Uniquely what has happened in many cases is that same student at some future date has moved out of the "cold climate" but took his system with him and now while in Florida he is teaching the same thing down south!

Very subtle Dennis...LOL...:rofl: :rolleyes:

However, I did learn the "original" version with the "pinch" to the poplateal nerve. ;)

I did however learn from my original instructor the "horse bite" version. Why? it's because a certain instructor up north, "learned" (;) ) it that way from Mr. Parker....:rolleyes: So that is the way the New Englanders did it. It wasn't until some broke away to study with first generation black belts did we "see the light"...:rofl:

[Goldendragon7]

as funny as it seems I was not referring to anyone particular from Florida, but after your post, I see where you could think I was pointing at Lee (which could fit in real easy) ........... lol......... but not intended for him at all......... :rofl:

:asian: