Bullying

[cali_tkdbruin]

My teenage daughter, has been training in the MAs for several years now. Recently, she's come in conflict with another girl at her high school over some punk-ass guy. The other girl doesn't know that my daughter is a martial artist, and that she can defend herself if needed, especially if the other kid is her same size. I've seen my girl in action many times in the dojang.

Anyway, today the other girl rushed my daughter, but my daughter's friends' stepped in and stopped any scraps. My daughter reported the incident to the school administration and everyone was put on check, and told there would be suspensions, and students would be expelled if this escallated.

I told her she did the right thing by not retaliating, and by reporting the incident and having the dean put everything on the record. However, I also told her that she has the right to defend herself, and if this occurs again then she has my permission to do what she has to do to protect herself.

When I was going to high school, I was attending simply just to learn and to get ready for college, I never had to deal with someone bullying me. What would you do if you were in my situation? Am I right to say all bets are off, and just be safe and defend yourself? If you're in school nobody should have to fight. You're there just to learn. :asian:

[Jonathan Randall]

My teenage daughter, has been training in the MAs for several years now. Recently, she's come in conflict with another girl at her high school over some punk-ass guy. The other girl doesn't know that my daughter is a martial artist, and that she can defend herself if needed, especially if the other kid is her same size. I've seen my girl in action many times in the dojang.

Anyway, today the other girl rushed my daughter, but my daughter's friends' stepped in and stopped any scraps. My daughter reported the incident to the school administration and everyone was put on check, and told there would be suspensions, and students would be expelled if this escallated.

I told her she did the right thing by not retaliating, and by reporting the incident and having the dean put everything on the record. However, I also told her that she has the right to defend herself, and if this occurs again then she has my permission to do what she has to do to protect herself.

When I was going to high school, I was attending simply just to learn and to get ready for college, I never had to deal with someone bullying me. What would you do if you were in my situation? Am I right to say all bets are off, and just be safe and defend yourself? If you're in school nobody should have to fight. You're there just to learn. :asian:

She did the right thing. The tactic for her and you now should be to AVOID and DOCUMENT. Avoid the other student and document (in Writing) any problems. If necessary, go to the school after any incident, no matter how minor, and talk to the staff about keeping your daughter and this girl separated. Also, counsel your daughter on any steps she could take to defuse the situation. Of course this may not be possible. Unfortunately, many school administrators are more concerned with protecting themselves legally than they are with the student's problems so you may have to keep on them until they realize that it is in THEIR best interests to keep your daughter both safe and unharassed. What if she does fight this girl and wins? That may only be the beginning of her problems.

[MJS]

My teenage daughter, has been training in the MAs for several years now. Recently, she's come in conflict with another girl at her high school over some punk-ass guy. The other girl doesn't know that my daughter is a martial artist, and that she can defend herself if needed, especially if the other kid is her same size. I've seen my girl in action many times in the dojang.

Anyway, today the other girl rushed my daughter, but my daughter's friends' stepped in and stopped any scraps. My daughter reported the incident to the school administration and everyone was put on check, and told there would be suspensions, and students would be expelled if this escallated.

I told her she did the right thing by not retaliating, and by reporting the incident and having the dean put everything on the record. However, I also told her that she has the right to defend herself, and if this occurs again then she has my permission to do what she has to do to protect herself.

When I was going to high school, I was attending simply just to learn and to get ready for college, I never had to deal with someone bullying me. What would you do if you were in my situation? Am I right to say all bets are off, and just be safe and defend yourself? If you're in school nobody should have to fight. You're there just to learn. :asian:

Your daughter did the right thing. People should be going to school to learn and get an education, not have to worry about defending themselves in the halls in-between classes. Any future incidents should also be brought to their attention.

I agree with you though, she has the right to defend herself. I would be cautious as to what she does though. In other words, she should do what she needs to, and no more.

I'm not familiar with the policies at the school, so you of course would be able to answer this question the best. Assuming that another incident happens, does your daughter also face the possibility of suspension if she defends herself? Afterall, she was not the aggressor, but simply defending herself.

Mike

[Gemini]

I'm not familiar with the policies at the school, so you of course would be able to answer this question the best. Assuming that another incident happens, does your daughter also face the possibility of suspension if she defends herself? Afterall, she was not the aggressor, but simply defending herself.

Mike

My understanding in most schools now is, everyone gets suspended and they'll sort out the mess later. The fact that it was documented is huge. Any confrontation that can be avoided should be. Besides, the other girl doesn't know your daughter is a MAist. Does your daughter know if the other girl is? Your daughter (and her friends) did the right thing.

[oldnewbie]

I recently went through a similar situation and gave my son (also a MA) the following guidelines....

Verbal abuse - walk away, and document.

Physical contact - in any form of aggression - all bets are off. He is to do what he feels is necessary to defend himself. I will stand behind him and defend him to the school.

But this also requires him to understand that the he will have to deal with the response form the school. It's really that simple. If he is suspended, he will stay home.

Once he understood, he decided to explain this to the "other guy". Basically that ended the problem.

This kind of stuff happens in all schools, at all ages. More in some and less in others. School is a place of learning. Book learning, social learning, relationship learning, and unfortunatly conflict response learning.


She and you did the right thing in my book, for what it's worth.

[Icewater]

I am not a fan of today's school policies of suspending everyone over the slightest altercation. I am also not an advocate of violence if it can be avoided. It's the damn safty-nazis that try to protect everyone from the slightest harm that bottles up this type of anger in our youth today and leads to lower self-esteem and more extreme violence.

I think overall your daughter made the right decision for this first altercation. The advice my father passed on to me with bullies was this:

"Son, I better not hear that you're starting fights as school. But if someone wants to start a fight with you, make sure you hit him hard and hit him first."

I only had to apply that lesson twice growing up. Once in middle school, then again in high school. Once the reputation was established that I would defend myself, I never had another problem.

[Brian R. VanCise]

Sounds like your daughter handled it well! Definately avoid and document and alert all authorities of the situation. You should also let your daughter know that she has a right to protect herself but that it only goes so far. Meaning if someone tries to fight with her and is punching that your daughter can only react with what would be considered reasonable under those circumstances. If the other child is striking or pushing her and your daughter were to up the ante by picking up a chair and braking it across the other girls back, then she could be in some serious trouble! I always advise kids and adults not to get into physical confrontations now a days and the reason is simply you probably will face suspensions, (if at school)
charges from the police and possibly a civil court case if the other person is hurt! I know of at least one board of education that actively calls the police for any physical confrontation and most of these end up with the students being charged by the police, ie. assault & battery! Best bet just tell your daughter to protect herself and avoid if at all possible and to also always be the one saying you don't want to fight because if other people are around it will always make you look better and potentially make any witness your witness!

Brian R. VanCise

[hemi]

I know I run the risk of stepping on some toes with this. But when I was in High School 89-92 I went to a small school with about 700 students 9-12th grades I may have had an exceptional experience and I know it was a few years back. But school doesn’t change some kids want to bully other kids. Back when I was in school my first two years of HS I got picked on. I was small and did not know MA, and it seemed like the UN written rule was if you could fight you were respected it not you got picked on.

By my junior year I was fed up. I had been to the principles office many times and was told the same old song and dance. Nothing ever got done so I took matters in to my own hands to ensure my safety. A piece of rubber hose will make someone think twice about jumping on the little guy.

Now fast-forward a few years my oldest daughter was having a problem on the school bus with a bigger girl. This girl would sit next to my daughter and tell her she would slap her if she didn’t give her lunch money over. So she had gone with out lunch for about a week when I found out. Needles to say I BLEW UP, I was standing in her principles office (funny but he was my principle back in the day) I went up one side and down the other and to make a long story short I reminded him of back when I was in his school had had a problem. I also reminded him that I will not hesitate to give my daughter a piece of hose to carry with her. I also against my wife’s wishes showed my daughter a few moves that would stop this girl in her tracks using an elbow to the face since she would be sitting next to my daughter.

So all I can say is Sir if your daughter is having a problem with a student wanting to jump her. Turn her loose and let her take this other student down a few pegs. She will remedy the problem with the girl that is giving her trouble and no one else will push their luck.

[Grenadier]

Well played.

She did the correct thing, especially since she was the first to report things. This way, nobody got hurt, and she doesn't have to lose any school time over something like this. Also, since it's been documented, she has that on her side as evidence of the other girl's mindset.

If she gets in a situation, though, where the other girl isn't going to back off, and tries to start something, then she had better fight to the best of her abilities. If that situation occurs, then everyone's going to be suspended, even if someone were just defending one's self. Get as many witness statements as possible, should that happen.

I'd much rather her appealing her suspension with an intact body, than to be "free of punishment" with broken bones and a bruised face.

[Grenadier]

seemed like the UN written rule was if you could fight you were respected it not you got picked on.


I'm just a few years older than you are, judging by your high school years, and can attest to that statement as well.

Back then, the vice principals of my junior and senior high schools would actually take time to investigate the matters, before passing judgement. I was rather lucky, since I know many such officials would rather suspend everyone.

My bus driver was a bit of an odd character; he only sent the loser to the principal's office...

[Bigshadow]

Your daughter did the right thing. I would also like to add that I tell my son that he is do what is necessary to stop any physical attack. I have taught him that it is safe to assume that someone physically attacking him intends bodily harm. He is not expected to let them hurt him. He is also to not expect that the teacher will stop the attack before there is bodily harm. Unfortunately, teachers and law enforcement are very similar, they are both reactionary. They come in to mop up after the fact and take notes and punish the guilty (in the case of school, the guilty and innocent).

He is to do what is necessary to stop the attack and report it to the teacher, even if he gets in trouble too. In today's school it isn't just fist fights anymore. I would rather him be safe and in trouble with the school than seriously injured or worse and in trouble with the school.

[arnisador]

She did the right thing. I would encourage her to continue to report incidents. She should know she has the right to defend herself, but also that the paperwork afterwards will be worse than the fight itself. It's best to avoid...but not give the impression of being weak and a taregt for bullying.

Does the guidance office or anyone offer mediation or similar services?

[chinto01]

I also agree that your daughter did the right thing. Schools where I live have a zero tolerence for bullying wether it be verbal or physical. Children today should not have to go to school and worry about being picked on or beat up. However I have informed my sons that if someone is threatening you to make the teacher aware of this at once. My wife then follows up with a call to the school to see what is going on. My sons also know that if someone is physically going to hurt them that they have the right to defend themselves to get away. It is understandable why schools are more aware and sensitive to bullying now after the Columbine incident. Wish they had been more aware sooner.

In the spirit of Bushido!

Rob

[searcher]

She did the right thing. In today's society your daughter could not be sure if the other girl had a weapon, if she is trained, or who would also jump in. This also lets the school admin know what has happened so they can be vigilant in keeping watch. This may also help others that may be getting bullied by the same person. It is much safer and show greater maturity by doing what your daughter did.

[jbclinic]

you and her did the right thing. as for your daughter she became a master at that point. knowing when and how are those steps we take in martial arts in becoming our own master

[Solidman82]

I was only in High school a few years ago and had a few run-ins with some violent buggers. I always got suspended no matter who was in the right (one time was for my own safety). Actually, the only thing that made kids leave me alone, besides my reputation as a trained killer(apparently that's what a martial artist in the 10th grade is) was that fact that I took one hell of a beating in front of everyone and came out smiling and shaking my opponents hand. It ended up protecting someone and ending a whole lot of harrassment from an entire school. It's not some much if you can fight, it's whether or not you are tough and unyeilding. In my own experience that is.

[Icewater]

So all I can say is Sir if your daughter is having a problem with a student wanting to jump her. Turn her loose and let her take this other student down a few pegs. She will remedy the problem with the girl that is giving her trouble and no one else will push their luck.



Can I get an amen? I think the boost in self-esteem for standing up for yourself will outweigh the suspension. I don't advocate violence, but if someone comes looking...

[arnisador]

That's great if it works. It's not so great if she loses--because the otehr girl is tougher/better trained/better armed than she looks, friends jump in, etc. All too often retaliation from a group of friends will come hours or days later, when one is at a disadvantage.

Then there are issues of arrest, lawsuit, suspension, etc.

Trying the peaceful way first isn't just Oriental philosophy--it's good, common sense self-defense, both for one's body and for the courtroom.

[cali_tkdbruin]

That's great if it works. It's not so great if she loses--because the otehr girl is tougher/better trained/better armed than she looks, friends jump in, etc. All too often retaliation from a group of friends will come hours or days later, when one is at a disadvantage.

Then there are issues of arrest, lawsuit, suspension, etc.

Trying the peaceful way first isn't just Oriental philosophy--it's good, common sense self-defense, both for one's body and for the courtroom.
Yes, that's my current dilema. What happens later on down the road if after my daughter steps up and puts the other kid in her place? What if this doesn't work and the situation escalates further either with retaliations or legal troubles?

[MJS]

Yes, that's my current dilema. What happens later on down the road if after my daughter steps up and puts the other kid in her place? What if this doesn't work and the situation escalates further either with retaliations or legal troubles?

No matter how big or small the issue may be, keep that paper trail going. As I said, its the schools job to provide a safe and productive learning atmosphere. If things are happening outside of school, contact the police. Your daughter shouldn't have to walk around everyday, having to look over her shoulder to see if this girl is behind her.

Mike

[Icewater]

Yes, that's my current dilema. What happens later on down the road if after my daughter steps up and puts the other kid in her place? What if this doesn't work and the situation escalates further either with retaliations or legal troubles?

In my experience, winning or losing is not so important as standing up for yourself against bullys. Whether you win the fight or lose the fight, you fought for your rights. If consequences come, it just means you will have to fight for your rights again, but the second time will be easier if you know you have stood up once and survived. As long as you have 'right' on your side, people will know and understand. If everyone worried about all the 'what if's' where would we be?

[searcher]

In my experience, winning or losing is not so important as standing up for yourself against bullys. Whether you win the fight or lose the fight, you fought for your rights. If consequences come, it just means you will have to fight for your rights again, but the second time will be easier if you know you have stood up once and survived. As long as you have 'right' on your side, people will know and understand. If everyone worried about all the 'what if's' where would we be?

It is not about winning or losing or even standing up to a bully. There will never be a winner, especially in today's world. If she fights and beats down the girl she will be marked for the rest of her life. Today it is one who wants to fight, tomorrow it will be two. This can also lead to her gaining a criminal record. It is a no win situation.

On your second point, if she does decide to fight there is a chance she won't survive. We don't know if the other student has a weapon or not. Kids are getting shot and stabbed on an all to regular basis.

Is there another school that she can transfer to?

[Icewater]

It is not about winning or losing or even standing up to a bully. There will never be a winner, especially in today's world. If she fights and beats down the girl she will be marked for the rest of her life. Today it is one who wants to fight, tomorrow it will be two. This can also lead to her gaining a criminal record. It is a no win situation.

On your second point, if she does decide to fight there is a chance she won't survive. We don't know if the other student has a weapon or not. Kids are getting shot and stabbed on an all to regular basis.

Is there another school that she can transfer to?

Another school?!?!? One bully and all of a sudden people talk about litigation, moving schools, death?!?! C'mon folks. We're talking about an age old problem of the school yard bully. I think we are teaching our youth a poor lesson these days if we tell them to run for cover each time they feel threatened. Ever heard of terrorism? This is the same thing on an infinately smaller scale. One person using fear to control another. To some extent I believe its in our nature to use fear to our advantage. But it is also in our nature to defend ourselves from those that would use fear to control our lives.

[CuongNhuka]

She did the right thing. Something else she might what to do is let the guy know. I've seen 2 guys in a brutal fist fight over who would get to date this one girl, ironic thing is (after they were both suspended and arested) is that the girl was a homosexual, and had a crush on the older sister of one of the guys. sounds like something out of a soup opera huh? i kinda doubt that the guy is a homosexual, but he might have a girl freind they don't know about. or he might have a thing or one of them, or some one else, or so forth. make shure she has some one with her most of the time. A freind of mine (a girl) was getting staucked for a while by anouther girl. Why? the girl (not my freind) had a crush on my freinds boy freind and whated to prove something to the guy. end result. my freind was jumped by the other girls freinds in the bathroom. shes o.k., but know keeps a freind or two with her at all times. she didn't have a witness so the girls got away with it. my freind and her boy freind ended up breaking up over the matter, since he liked the other girl more then her. but back on subject. she did the right thing, and you told her the right things. so more power to you.

Sweet Brighit Bless your Blade,

John

[searcher]

Another school?!?!? One bully and all of a sudden people talk about litigation, moving schools, death?!?! C'mon folks. We're talking about an age old problem of the school yard bully. I think we are teaching our youth a poor lesson these days if we tell them to run for cover each time they feel threatened. Ever heard of terrorism? This is the same thing on an infinately smaller scale. One person using fear to control another. To some extent I believe its in our nature to use fear to our advantage. But it is also in our nature to defend ourselves from those that would use fear to control our lives.

Yes, another school. We are presenting all possible solutions to the problem. If it can be resolved without violence then it is for the better. As for litigation, personal injury, and death it only takes one time. You helped prove my point with terrorism. People die because of terrorists every day, but the original poster does not want her daughter to be one of those deaths. Just my $0.02 worth.

[AdrenalineJunky]

I have to agree that litigation is a much larger issue than it used to be. When I was a kid, I had a problem with another kid in one of my junior-high classes. My dad told me to be a few minutes late to class, so that class is already in session, walk up to the kid and swing away while he's still sitting in his desk. The idea being that the teacher would break it up before anything real bad could happen to me; the kid would be embarrassed; and--in the event he thought to retaliate--it was obvious that I wasn't playing by the "rules," so I retained the element of surprise.

Again, people are so sue-happy these days, it seems anyone with morals is in a serious predicament when it comes to matters, such as these.

[MJS]

Another school?!?!? One bully and all of a sudden people talk about litigation, moving schools, death?!?! C'mon folks. We're talking about an age old problem of the school yard bully. I think we are teaching our youth a poor lesson these days if we tell them to run for cover each time they feel threatened. Ever heard of terrorism? This is the same thing on an infinately smaller scale. One person using fear to control another. To some extent I believe its in our nature to use fear to our advantage. But it is also in our nature to defend ourselves from those that would use fear to control our lives.

While the school yard bully may be your age old problem, it is a proven fact that kids, both young and older, have brought weapons into school and have used them. Kids should not have to be subjected to being harrassed on a daily basis.

Mike

[Epson]

She can charge the other girl with assult. Yes, a minor can charge a minor.
If the other girl touches her, she can charge her with battery.

[arnisador]

Yes, 20 years ago I would likely have given the advice to stand up and fight to show that she isn't scared. Things have changed, in my opinion--but as far as kids bringing weapons to school, and to parents suing.

Changing schools? It could come to that, but it seems too soon to go that way, as I understand the situation.

[Solidman82]

Another school?!?!? One bully and all of a sudden people talk about litigation, moving schools, death?!?! C'mon folks. We're talking about an age old problem of the school yard bully. I think we are teaching our youth a poor lesson these days if we tell them to run for cover each time they feel threatened. Ever heard of terrorism? This is the same thing on an infinately smaller scale. One person using fear to control another. To some extent I believe its in our nature to use fear to our advantage. But it is also in our nature to defend ourselves from those that would use fear to control our lives.
It's your age that percieves it as an age-old problem. Things aren't the way they used to be and I know how rough it really is in the schools because I was just there. I don't even live in the states where the problem is, Canada is supposed to be peaceful and I still almost took a knife in the back of the neck. Honestly, you have to either establish yourself or blend in, Making an enemy and then showing weakness will get yourself hurt.

[AdrenalineJunky]

It's your age that percieves it as an age-old problem. Things aren't the way they used to be and I know how rough it really is in the schools because I was just there. I don't even live in the states where the problem is, Canada is supposed to be peaceful and I still almost took a knife in the back of the neck. Honestly, you have to either establish yourself or blend in, Making an enemy and then showing weakness will get yourself hurt.

I generally agree with this statement. The funny thing about bullies is that they are usually the biggest sissys. Nobody wants to cut some jerk's parents a check for a few hundred every month. Also, the condoning the potential danger involved in "establishing" one's self is contrary to the larger goal of the parent: protecting one's children--often going to insane measures to accomplish that, but protecting them, nevertheless.

[Solidman82]

That's why I often tried to blend in, things get complicated and then suddenly you stand out and become a target sometimes

[Loki]

Kudos to you both for doing the right thing. If she's ever attacked again, this precedent works in her favor. And yes, she should defend herself if she must.

[searcher]

That's why I often tried to blend in, things get complicated and then suddenly you stand out and become a target sometimes

Blending in is a very good thing. It often saves time and pain.

[arnisador]

I agree that bullies are often cowards at heart. Stand up to them and they find someone weaker to harass.

Unless...they have a group of followers egging them on, and the group retaliates. That's a big concern here, I think.

[Solidman82]

That's often how it is Arnisador

[7starmantis]

I agree that bullies are often cowards at heart. Stand up to them and they find someone weaker to harass.
I agree wholheartedly, however there are those few situations where the bully is skilled and willing to participate in violence.

7sm

[arnisador]

Yup. The uncertainty makes it hard to know how dangerous the situation truly is.

[CuongNhuka]

Alot of the people that bullys pick on figure out that bullys are chicken -blank-. So now bullys travel in little packs or join gangs. Most bullys will carry weapons now adays. I don't know what it was like for you folks back in the day, but know for the most part you need to either blend in, be really really popular, a bully, or the bullied. Those that blend in tend to be ignored, both by bullys and potential freinds. It is hard to get to popular for most to not bully (because there is a point were that will happen). And who wants to be a bully or the bullied? It's all a matter of choice. But something i've noticed about most of the posts on this thread are by people who are probably in there 30s or 40s (talk'n about back when i was a kid comments are why). And I mean no insult, mearly wish to say.

Sweet Brighit Bless your Blade,

John

[Solidman82]

but know for the most part you need to either blend in, be really really popular, a bully, or the bullied. Those that blend in tend to be ignored, both by bullys and potential freinds.

There is another option, much too risky for recommendation though. It's called honor and integrity.

You can stand up for what you know is right and what you believe in. But you need to be very strong and brave to do so. This is NOT a path for the weak of heart.

Unfortunately, as martial artists we are drawn to this path and don't have room for being gutless.

[Tgace]

Things ARE different these days...back in 79'-80' when I was in 5-6th grade, some kid took a punch at me. I grabbed his wrist and twisted and I broke his wrist, in the middle of the cafeteria, in sight of about 5 adults. My parents were never even called. I got a lecture from my teacher and life went on as normal. These days I dont even want to think about what would have happenend.

Funny thing is, after that I only got in 1-2 scuffles (pretty much just wrestling matches) throughout HS. Wasnt "feared" or even "respected" as far as I remember. Just never "picked on".....

[Solidman82]

That's what I'm referring to Tgace. It doesn't take psychological manipulation, you just have to keep your wits about you and don't let anyone think that it's going to be a simple thing to push you or your friends around (although looking out for my friends is really my downfall).

[Tgace]

Although these days, kids seem so wrapped up in "respect" and image that the lengths they go through to maintain that "image" has become more extreme. That kid whos wrist I cracked and I were never best of "friends" but we had zero problems with each other afterwards. Nowdays you see death threats, weapons being introduced...of course much of it is media fueled hype, but how much influence is that hype having? Look at the string of school shootings a few years ago. Life imitates art? Art imitates life?

[Solidman82]

Nowdays you see death threats, weapons being introduced...of course much of it is media fueled hype,

Well, after my experience I wonder exactly how much of that is actually media fueled.

[Icewater]

Interesting... I didn't realize there was so much fear in the schools these days. There were knives and weapons in my schools days as well. I've seen people stabbed and guns pulled during basketball games. But I always kind of knew the people that would carry those things. And while I didn't have the choice if they picked me for a confrontation, I found that standing my ground gained their respect. And it rarely ended with a fight.

So I still can't help but think we are taking it the wrong way. For instance, if someone at your work place threatened you, and you knew that a fight would cost you both a paycheck (equivalent of suspension), would you find another job? call the cops? or sort it out yourself?

I don't think there is a wrong answer to this, only differences of opinion. I personally would take matters into my own hands. I don't mean an immediate fight, but certainly a verbal confrontation to bring things out into the open.

[Solidman82]

if someone at your work place threatened you, and you knew that a fight would cost you both a paycheck (equivalent of suspension),

If we got payed to go to school then it would be the equivalent, Suspension is a holiday man, not a punishment. "You got in a fight and it felt damn good hey? Well here, take the day off!", is all we usually heard.

[cali_tkdbruin]

You're being facious right... :idunno:

[Jerry]

Replace "child" with "adult" in 90% of these posts and tell me what's different?

A man walks out and threates your wife on the street tomoorw. The next day, he hits her a few times. Tell me why you react differently (assuming you do) than when it's your child?

[FearlessFreep]

What happens when you are the bully?

Yesterday my kids were fighting and it started with my oldest son picking on his younger sister. This happens pretty regularly so I finally told them that 'if you are going to act like a bully, you are going to be treated like a bully'. In class the kids are constantly being taught about and taught techniques to deal with being bullied in the neighborhood, etc....Especially with my daughters I feel that it's important for them to be physically pressured or intimidated, even by relatives. So, I gave my kids permission that if an older sibling is bullying them, the first step is avoidance, the second step is verbal and if that doesn't work, the third allowed step is a retaliation. It works both ways, actually because my older daughter tends to pick on her younger brother and sister as well. So I told the kids "if you act like a bully you will be treated like a bully, and we train how to treat bullies so keep that in mind"

I had a dream last night that I was in a coffee house and this guy looked pretty beligerant like he was trying to cut in line. So I physically moved him a few feet to the side. He was much shorter than me. Later on he was waving around his arm demonstrating some things to a friend and he hit me a few times so I grapped his arms and set "stop it". It was really weird beause in both cases, even though he sorta instigated the encounter, I was the one who really took it up a level in intensity. Since he as smaller than me I felt lik I would be see as the bully, and in some ways I thought that's how I was acting...would I have responded like that to someone my size? Just a dream but a it unsettling nonetheless

[searcher]

Freep, you have a good point about the larger one coming of as the bully. My father out it to me like this, if you are the larger and you beat the crap out of the little guy you are being a bully. If you lose in a fight to the little guy you are a puss. If you are the larger person it is a no win situation.

[Laborn]

I'm current'y in HS my self, tho im homeschooled, my friend *female* the other day *she practices TKD with me* she's 16 and a 18 year old guy was pestering her, he was picking on her and stuff, well he actually punched her once, and wow she went bezerk on him, basically she drove him into the wall. I laugh at things like this because now, he has the rep of being *beaten by a girl* Wow people are so cruel in HS, people always say *man wait til you get to highschool, so much easier* BS! The peer pressure goes sky rocketing, the guys want to *prove* them selves infront of the girls, blah blah blah. All of my martial arts friends that go to HS, have been in several fights, because people want to fight them to *prove* that they can fight better. Sad really, you NEED martial arts if you go to hs lmao.

[Laborn]

Lol just because someones bigger doesn't make them have a big advantage, they have an advantage mainly on strength, im a small guy, so most people i fight are bigger then me. Just yesterday i was sparring an 18 year old i call him the wall. But yeah just because someones larger doesn't mean you have a disadvantage, if he cant hit you, or grab you, how can he win? I'm a small guy but i work alot on speed, so im faster usually then the bigger guys, so they beat me on strength, i beat them on speed. So really it's the same...you just have to learn how to use your advantage on their disadvantage *that's what my instructer always says*

[arnisador]

I'm current'y in HS my self, tho im homeschooled

We homeschool our 15 year old and 11 year old...but I also ensure that they know how to defend themselves if needed!

[FearlessFreep]

We're homeschooling our children (at least the older ones so far) but the oldest three are in a TKD class with a heavy emphasis on self-defense.

[bluemtn]

I think that when dealing with a bully- both child and adult- you should also be able to handle yourself verbally. No, I don't mean cussing up a storm, either. If you can stand up for yourself verbally, it's a good chance you will avoid a physical confrontation. In my entire career as a student, I've only had to defend myself physically twice, when I saw words or teachers weren't going to work. Tell your daughter the same thing you would an adult woman in a SD class- make sure you have someone around you as often as possible. It's high school- chances are, she's rarely alone for very long anyways, so it shouldn't be too difficult for her to find someone around. She's a MA'st as well, so she should be aware of her surroundings. If there's a sudden change in the crowd around her, she'll notice. In high school, other students just seemed to know when a fight is about to break out.

These are just my observations.

[Laborn]

You should homeschool your children, it's a crazy world now adays, at a school close to me 3 kids went suicide, beatings everywhere, when i went to school school, i got beat up, choked 5 times for money, mugged. Then my mom was like screw that and i've been homeschooled ever since, that was in 4th grade, can you imagine high school now? above all..peer pressure, HS peer pressure is immence, im so glad im homeschooled :)

[arnisador]

We homeschoolers should start a separate thread on it in one of the general talk areas!

[Solidman82]

I was homeschooled until grade 4. All it did for me was make me one of the losers when I finally got to school (mind you, christian schools are rougher then public schools). And private school only taught me to be honorable and take beatings.....man my parents screwed up!:erg:

[Flatlander]

I just learned about www.bullying.org on the news this evening, and checked it out. I think its a great site. If any one knows a youngster that maybe just needs to know they're not alone, send them there to check it out.

[arnisador]

A teengrowth.com Q&A article in Friday's paper said "don't fight back" if bullied (see here (http://www.teengrowth.com/index.cfm?action=info_article&ID_article=1362&category=school&catdesc=School&subdesc=Outcasts).) Their advice:




don't react
walk away, get help if pursued
agree with the bully, saying "you're right" and walk away
be assertive and calm
report the behavior if it continues

It refers people to www.stopbullyingnow.hrsa.gov (http://www.stopbullyingnow.hrsa.gov) for more info.

[Dalum]

I wasn't able to read this whole thread as I got fired up over the topic and some of the posts. Here's my take and a couple of cents...

As a kid in High School I was picked on. Heck, I was in 1 of the 2 Filipino families in a small town that's predominently hick so getting picked on was beyond just High School. It finally came to a head when this group of people (comprosed of ex-friends due to cliques and circumstance and plain old meatheads) started in on my girlfriend to get to me. I finally told them to come on by my house so I can beat someone down. It just happened to be a kid in my neighborhood. They were all worried since his family was all factory and my family was doctors. Like I'd have my family sue over a fight started on my property. Whatever. I told them that it was all kosher. Whatever the outcome, it ends there. They were cool about it and I proceeded to make a patch of grass red with my neighbor.

After that, they stopped picking on the geeky Asian kid... and pretty much everyone else.

My point with this story is that it's going to come down to something like this. It can either happen with or without the school. It can be handled with honor (in the end) like my situation did or worse. I was lucky. Many others aren't. Any fighting is best done when it isn't done at all. The funny thing is that in our student handbook, back in the day, stated that if there is a fight started you can be exempt from suspension/expulsion if you do nothing till 3 distinct attacks have been made. I saw a fellow MA student use that to his advantage in school. A fight started in the locker room and he let his attacker throw 3 swings at his head. All hitting the locker behind him. After that 3rd hit, all he did was side step and sweep him on the slippery floor. The guy bashed his dead on the floor and that was that.

It wasn't that long ago and things have changed so much from when it was somewhat OK to fight in school. Now it's all about knives and guns and revenge. No more honor. It sucks.

[Tony]

She did the right thing and luckily violence was avoided but time passes and then the bully will inevitably strike again and if nothing is done the person being bullied will become a victim for the rest of their lives.
I was bullied for many years at school and i was too scared to fight back because i was scared of the consequences, being shouted at by the teachers or facing being punished by my parents but my mother always encouraged me to fight back. And because i developed a reputation for taking everything people did to me they all thought it was ok to do that to me but now i know I should have fought back even if it had meant expulsion. If i ever have chidren and they are in a similar situation and there is no other way then i will encourage them to defend themselves!
If we stand up to bullies we gain respect and we don't become victims for the rest of our lives!

[beauty_in_the_sai]

I was picked on in high school after it leaked out I was a martial artist and always tried to go by your daughters approach. Unfortunately, most high school guys are cocky and I did get into 2 fights over my high school education. I ended them quickly, but as they always broke out in crowded hallways, I always had lots of eyewitnesses that told the truth. I never started the fight but always finished it. Fortunately, I had a cool principle that told me "good job" after I won the fight. Usually, some big-headed guy would try to strike me or grab me in inappropriate places, and I would give him a warning to leave me alone, just as my instructor said. When he did it for the second time, I struck back. This happened with two different guys, one trying to punch me, another trying to grab me. All my parents said was that they were glad they gave me martial art lessons. My instructor was proud too. After the second incident, most people left me alone.

Becky