honorary black belt

[jbclinic]

what's an honorary black belt?, is that a rank? GM parker issued this to elvis then he became ranked i think,but what kind of merit does this title hold?

[Jonathan Randall]

what's an honorary black belt?, is that a rank? GM parker issued this to elvis then he became ranked i think,but what kind of merit does this title hold?First question, it's a gesture of courtesy, friendship and respect. Second question; much harder to answer. It can mean many different things. For many years, Chinese styles did not use any type of ranking system and when my Kenpo teacher got a student with 15+ years of serious training, he had him wear a black belt. In other cases, it has ABSOLUTELY no meaning beyond - a gesture of friendship, courtesy or respect.

For instance, I believe that several Presidents of the United States have been awarded honorary black belts. I don't think there is anything wrong with this - the instructor (Jhoon Rhee, I believe) was simply acknowledging their position and also forwarding the interests of the martial arts.

HOWEVER, and there's always a however, isn't there? Some unscrupulous individuals will take purely honorary rank and misrepresent it as a legitimate instructor certification. Please, no names! We all know who these people are by now. If you don't, do a search on MT or any other large martial arts forums rather than re-ignite old flame wars. Pretty please, with a cherry on top...

[jbclinic]

thanks that was helpful, i'd struggled with that, a couple of instructors said this to me, i now undersyand that they appreciate my abilities in martial arts

[jfarnsworth]

Do a search in the general section (I believe) as there was a very long discussion on this very topic. Happy reading.

[The Boar Man]

what's an honorary black belt?, is that a rank? GM parker issued this to elvis then he became ranked i think,but what kind of merit does this title hold?

Actually I think Elvis earned his rank in Kenpo under Parker (I think 2nd dan) and then some Korean Master gave him the honorary rank.

Mark

[Grenadier]

The way I see it, it's a gesture of courtesy, and respect, but should always be taken with several grains of salt. Maybe the person receiving the honorary black belt has some skills in the martial arts, maybe not.

It's the same way with honorary degress from various colleges; just because someone has an honorary degree from a prestigious university, does not necessarily convey that they have any significant knowledge in that area.

[arnisador]

Actually I think Elvis earned his rank in Kenpo under Parker (I think 2nd dan) and then some Korean Master gave him the honorary rank. If I understand correctly, he earned a low black belt rank from Mr. Parker and was given a higher honorary rank from him in order to help promote the art and/or for what he had already done to help promote the art.

A few relevant links:
http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=921
http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=22015
http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=23842

[The Boar Man]

Thanks for the links I'll check them out. I was basing my comment on a vauge recollection of an article I read in International Fighter Magazine in the 80's. I went to the State Fair of TX. a couple of weeks ago and they had an Elvis exhibit and in that exhibit they had that magazine displayed.

Mark

[jfarnsworth]

what's an honorary black belt?, is that a rank? GM parker issued this to elvis then he became ranked i think,but what kind of merit does this title hold?
Read this thread here
http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=24101&page=1&highlight=HONORARY+BLACK+BELT
and then maybe this one
http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=22015&highlight=HONORARY+BLACK+BELT
:asian:

[Jeff Boler]

Simply put, it's a mistake. A rather famous Ninjutsu instructor gave an honorary 10th Dan to a rather infamous Judo instructor, and it was nothing but trouble. It was misused from the moment it was received, to the point that the "infamous" person in question created a Ninjutsu division shortly after.

There are other, more appropriate gestures of good will that wont bite you in the arse later.

[Flying Crane]

I don't really see anything about this that could be seen in a positive way. If someone already holds legitimate rank in one system, why would anyone from a different system need to give them honorary rank, even if it is in recognition of legitimate skills? If a person wants to train in another art and earn rank along the way, that is fine. But to have honorary rank just handed to them based on past training seems pointless.

Giving someone honorary rank as a social or professional courtesy seems just as pointless. Why add to the confusion by having a bunch of people who were awarded rank for which they have no knowledge and skills? There are enough people already running around with rank they don't deserve. Why compound that by deliberately handing out this kind of rank? Never made sense to me.

[Gemini]

Giving someone honorary rank as a social or professional courtesy seems just as pointless. Why add to the confusion by having a bunch of people who were awarded rank for which they have no knowledge and skills? There are enough people already running around with rank they don't deserve. Why compound that by deliberately handing out this kind of rank? Never made sense to me.We had a 7 year old student who, as an orange belt was diagnosed with Leukemia and was terminal. We held a kick-a-thon in his honor as a fund raiser. At this event, he was awarded an honorary black belt because he was only expected to live a few more months. This year we did it again because I guess no one ever explained to him what "terminal" meant. He's still with us.

Heart of a Black Belt.

[tshadowchaser]

I dislike the idea. I once gave a Honor Black Belt to someone that was only supposed to live a few more months. Well they didn't die and the organization i belonged to at the time said "nope he's a black belt with all privileges".

I can't tell you how much it burns me to see him strut around like he actually earned it. Worse after I left the organization he opened up school less than 5 miles from me

[James Kovacich]

Gene Lebell recent received 2 (I think) 9th & honorary 10th Dan's from Japan and in the same Black belt article that wrote about it Gene called them "legitimate."

[arnisador]

What were the organizations?

[Flying Crane]

Gene Lebell recent received 2 (I think) 9th & honorary 10th Dan's from Japan and in the same Black belt article that wrote about it Gene called them "legitimate."
why, in the name of all that is holy and sacred, would someone like Gene Lebell feel the need to accept an honorary rank?

[masherdong]

Wow! One of those threads is mine. :)

[cali_tkdbruin]

Actually I think Elvis earned his rank in Kenpo under Parker (I think 2nd dan) and then some Korean Master gave him the honorary rank.

Mark

Yup, the King, Elvis really took to the MAs. A Karate dude...:karate:

[James Kovacich]

What were the organizations?
I don't remember the org's but I think I remember them being the big ones like JKA or something. It was in the last few months, I'll look and post it.

[James Kovacich]

why, in the name of all that is holy and sacred, would someone like Gene Lebell feel the need to accept an honorary rank?
Only he could answer that one. But he did, it was in Black belt in the last few months. I have the mag, I'll post more on it.

[OnlyAnEgg]

Sensei told me the story of an honorary Black Belt he bestowed some years ago:

When Sensei started his dojo, it was on a shoestring budget in a small community. From the start, there was an elderly woman that would attend, observe really, the class each day it was open. After a couple of months, she approached Sensei and gave him a substantial donation to the dojo, saying, 'Get those kids some equipment.' He did. She contimued to attend the classes, watching the children progress. Thereafter, Sensei held a ceremony, bestowing her with an honorary Black Belt for her commitment to the kids, the community and the dojo. Her family came from out of state to attend the ceremony.

Her visits to the dojo became fewer and fewer over the course of time and, soon after, she passed away. Sensei attended the funeral, honoring her memory. She was wearing the belt and was buried with it on.

It was a way of saying thank you to a woman that did a good thing in the way she saw best.

[Flying Crane]

Sensei told me the story of an honorary Black Belt he bestowed some years ago:

When Sensei started his dojo, it was on a shoestring budget in a small community. From the start, there was an elderly woman that would attend, observe really, the class each day it was open. After a couple of months, she approached Sensei and gave him a substantial donation to the dojo, saying, 'Get those kids some equipment.' He did. She contimued to attend the classes, watching the children progress. Thereafter, Sensei held a ceremony, bestowing her with an honorary Black Belt for her commitment to the kids, the community and the dojo. Her family came from out of state to attend the ceremony.

Her visits to the dojo became fewer and fewer over the course of time and, soon after, she passed away. Sensei attended the funeral, honoring her memory. She was wearing the belt and was buried with it on.

It was a way of saying thank you to a woman that did a good thing in the way she saw best.

OK, now this is completely justifiable. Nobody has any misconceptions about what the belt meant, or what it signified, including the woman. It was done as an act of respect and gratitude to someone who did your sensei an act of kindness. Given these circumstances, I see nothing wrong with it. Chances of the honorary rank being used irresponsibly to dupe people are non-existant, and I seriously doubt it gave the woman an ego trip.

[OnlyAnEgg]

It did not give her an ego trip at all, as I understood the story. It was a point of honor her and she was justifiably proud.

[arnisador]

OK, now this is completely justifiable. Nobody has any misconceptions about what the belt meant, or what it signified, including the woman. It was done as an act of respect and gratitude to someone who did your sensei an act of kindness. Given these circumstances, I see nothing wrong with it.

Yes, I don't have a problem with this...though others have pointed out that even well-meaning people will sometimes try to trade on their new-found status. One never knows!

[Solidman82]

It's arguments like these that really make me thankful that I don't have a system that uses belts, I don't care about belts, and belts don't really mean anything anyway.

[James Kovacich]

I couldn't find the issue. I thought I bought it but I guess not. I usually buy an issue if theres an article worth reading but I guess there was not in that issue (for me).

But I do distictly remember 2 honorary black belts. 1 Karate and 1 Judo. Thats what I remember. But this is from Genes site.

Gene LeBell promoted to 9th Degree by the Kodokan, Japan (http://www.genelebell.com/news.asp#35kudan)
http://www.genelebell.com/news.asp

And heres Genes sites descrition of the promotion.
Promotion to 9th Degree Gene LeBell has made a tremendous contribution to the martial arts community, and though he will stoutly deny it, he is admired and appreciated by nearly all of the greatest fighters alive today. In 2000, Chairman Gene LeBell was promoted to the rank of 9th Degree Black Belt in US JU-JITSU and US TAIHO JUTSU by the United States Ju-Jitsu Federation (USJJF), The National Governing Body for Ju-Jitsu in the United States of America.

On February 26, 2005, the USJJF's Central Technical Committee (CTC) through its National Program of USA TRADITIONAL KODOKAN JUDO (USA-TKJ), officially announced the Recognition of Life-Time of Achievements, Outstanding Leadership & Original Contributions to Traditional Judo by Gene LeBell and his Promotion to the Traditional Kodokan Judo Dan Grade of Kudan, 9th Degree Black Belt.

Congratulations for this Most Well-Deserved Recognition & Promotions.

Respectfully, Lt.Col. Bruce R. Bethers, (US ARMY Ret.), President, USJJF
http://www.genelebell.com/news.asp#35kudan

I'm confused. I know I read about the honorary promotion but on his site it says promoted by the Kodokan. Then it says it was the USJJF recognizing him in Kodokan Judo. Dosen't sound like the Kodokan had anything to do with it.

[James Kovacich]

I didn't see anyone from the USJJF here.
http://www.judoinfo.com/judan.htm

I don't see a problem with an outside organization doing the promoting but the issue is promoting in "Kodokan Judo." They should have promoted him in Judo, American Judo or Gene Lebells Judo or something that they agree describes his art.