side note

[terryl965]

If we as Martial Artist insest on bringing the best out of people then why do we as a group tend to bring the worst out of ourselfs. I mean we lost are rep points for the few that can't just say what needs to be said, without having to be little those that wrote it. If we the moral correct majority with all the training and the respect we suppose to have learned over the years of training can not act like civilize men and woman than how can we expect the world to do the same and play nice with each other.

I'll just want and see the replys.
Terry Lee Stoker

[arnisador]

You know, without seeing examples, I'm not so anxious to condemn the 'abuse' in the rep. system. Perhaps as a mod. you have seen them and know what the story is, but all I know is what little has been posted here. I don't doubt that abuse is happening, but I can't condemn it without knowing just what it is.

[Gemini]

3779 members. That's alot! I think most of them "get it". By and large the people on this forum are pretty respectable to each other. I haven't seen any other forum I was a member of (including other MA boards) generally more civil to each other. Given the different characters, types of study, personalities, I think we do pretty well, but it's never a waste of time to re-evaluate what you have.
I agree that we, as martials artists focus more on our conduct, but ultimately we are the same flesh and blood as everyone else, and just like everyone else, sometimes situations get the best of us.

[mantis]

well the moderator talked about some "bad apples".
doesnt mean we're all like that
in every society, community, country, religion or a group there's the good and the bad

[mantis]

You know, without seeing examples, I'm not so anxious to condemn the 'abuse' in the rep. system. Perhaps as a mod. you have seen them and know what the story is, but all I know is what little has been posted here. I don't doubt that abuse is happening, but I can't condemn it without knowing just what it is. i agree
there's got to be some abuse going on
i mean we talk about arts from different cultures, we talk about different masters, schools ideologies
and most importantly we discuss politics and religion!!!
you have to expect abuse!

[Flying Crane]

Honestly, I think this has been a very very respectful forum. When I first began posting here, I stumbled unintentionally into some sensitive topics, posted some things that perhaps stepped on some toes without intending it, and the respose, while firm, was nothing but respectful.

If you guys want to see some really crazy disrespectful postings, try poking around some of the threads in this forum: http://www.kutaki.org/modules/newbb/ It's a ninjutsu forum, and boy howdy, there are some sensitive topics there! We are talking about some real slam-down knockout fights goin' on.

[terryl965]

Well I agree this forum is nicer than alot of other forums but I talking about are character as well as MA'ers do we not owe it to ourself to be like we was tought respect, courtesy, honor, I hold myself at a higher standerd then those with no MA training. I know we are human and I know we are have those bad days but we are at a higher level than most. Agree or dis-agree

Terry Lee Stoker

[mantis]

Honestly, I think this has been a very very respectful forum. When I first began posting here, I stumbled unintentionally into some sensitive topics, posted some things that perhaps stepped on some toes without intending it, and the respose, while firm, was nothing but respectful.

If you guys want to see some really crazy disrespectful postings, try poking around some of the threads in this forum: http://www.kutaki.org/modules/newbb/ It's a ninjutsu forum, and boy howdy, there are some sensitive topics there! We are talking about some real slam-down knockout fights goin' on. oh Gosh dude!
what's this site?
looks like somebody should ban nijutsu practitioners from posting at night!
those guys are like Linux forums!
and yes this is a respectful forum..

[Flying Crane]

oh Gosh dude!
what's this site?
looks like somebody should ban nijutsu practitioners from posting at night!
those guys are like Linux forums!
and yes this is a respectful forum..
ohh yeah. I've seen some pretty crazy stuff go on, esp. in the "soapbox" forum. Just amazing. I was tempted to join in and point out how bad this looks to non-ninjutsu people, but then I thought i'd just sit back and enjoy the show!

[shesulsa]

Well I agree this forum is nicer than alot of other forums but I talking about are character as well as MA'ers do we not owe it to ourself to be like we was tought respect, courtesy, honor, I hold myself at a higher standerd then those with no MA training. I know we are human and I know we are have those bad days but we are at a higher level than most. Agree or dis-agree

Terry Lee Stoker
Yes. :ultracool

However, I've met more people who practice martial arts who are lacking in these tenets than aren't. Just because someone wears that rank doesn't mean their heart has a black belt and we ALL know this.

So ... we can only hope to teach by example, I think.

[Grenadier]

This forum is, by far, a polite one. Even in some of the more pronounced disagreements, people at least offer some courtesy to one another. We should strive to maintain such standards, as that's what sets this forum apart from some of the other places, such as Ashida Kim's forums...

[first123class]

What's Ashida Kim forums?

[arnisador]

This is definitely one of the most polite boards--absolutely. The staff does a great job of helping keep things on an even keel.

[Jonathan Randall]

Yes. :ultracool

However, I've met more people who practice martial arts who are lacking in these tenets than aren't. Just because someone wears that rank doesn't mean their heart has a black belt and we ALL know this.

So ... we can only hope to teach by example, I think.
Me too, I'm afraid. It's gotten to the point where I sometimes avoid (in social situations) letting other martial artists know that I study. It's a shame, but for some reason, along with the pure gems, martial arts often attracts, uh? How to put it? Better to leave blank, I think.

[Jonathan Randall]

This is definitely one of the most polite boards--absolutely. The staff does a great job of helping keep things on an even keel.They sure do, don't they. This is the ONLY MA board I post on any longer. Some of them are so outrageous that it reminds me of two of my seventh grade classmates in junior high who almost came to blows over an argument about which was more effective, tiger or crane style. Unfortunately, some of the worst offenders hold very high ranks in legitimate, traditional arts. Go figure?

[Andrew Green]

Martial artists can be as polite and respectful as other members of society when they are within there own groups, or even when interacting with non-martial artists. They can be friendly, open minded, and productive members of society.

However, martial Artists are pack animals and are very territorial. If they encounter a member or members of a rival pack they tend to get aggressive and posture themselves defensively. They don't like to admit this though, and in person most are able to mask these feelings. Given the annonymity of the internet and that they will not get "called" on anything they say and be put in a position of having to defend it on the mat these feelings will come out and they will lash out at members of other packs.

This rivallry is most apparent in completely counterdictary packs, such as TKD vs BJJ or in packs where they are diivided politically from the same tree traditional karate vs sport karate.

Martial Artists tend to almost diefy senior members of their pack, taking the word of these seniors as gosspel and violently lashing out (with words from a distance) at any one who claims something counter to what the senior has claimed, no matter how ridiculous the seniors claim is to an outside observer. This behaviour resembles and is likely left over from the evolution from poo slinging monkies.

[arnisador]

Not every martial art preaches philosophy like David Carradine in Kung Fu or Pat Morita in The Karate Kid. Some arts don't teach that sort of thing at all. We've never had a philosopy discussion in my BJJ class, for example.

Every group follows the bell curve, it seems--no surprise.

[Andrew Green]

Not every martial art preaches philosophy like David Carradine in Kung Fu or Pat Morita in The Karate Kid.

Thank God :D



Some arts don't teach that sort of thing at all. We've never had a philosopy discussion in my BJJ class, for example.

It's still there though, just learnt in a more hands on way as opposed to the cryptic sayings of those two.

[arnisador]

I'm not sure I'd agree--not to the level I had it in, say, Karate. Yes, there's a judo-like strategy, but a philosophy? I'm not so sure.

[Grenadier]

What's Ashida Kim forums?I do not wish to post a direct link. Instead, you can search http://en.wikipedia.org (http://en.wikipedia.org/) for the background info (and some links) about Mr. Davis (aka Ashida Kim). :)

[Jade Tigress]

Yes. :ultracool

However, I've met more people who practice martial arts who are lacking in these tenets than aren't. Just because someone wears that rank doesn't mean their heart has a black belt and we ALL know this.

So ... we can only hope to teach by example, I think. This is so true. Black belts can be bought, lots of McDojo's, lots of young, immature people in the arts who have the need to be right about everything. Then there are those who just can't respectfully disagree. Lots of testosterone induced chest thumping.

Overall the members of this board are intelligent and respectful, but on the internet you get such a variety of people together there are bound to be bad apples. There are alot of people who want to learn martial arts for the wrong reasons and plenty of instructors willing to take their money for it. There is no doubt the caliber of people on this board far outweigh the majority of other martial arts boards and I'm thankful to Bob and the MT staff for creating an atmosphere here which attracts that standard of martial artist. Some "bad apples" may just be trolls who like to stir up trouble for the fun of it.

It's an unfortunate fact that you have to take the bad with the good.

[Andrew Green]

I'm not sure I'd agree--not to the level I had it in, say, Karate. Yes, there's a judo-like strategy, but a philosophy? I'm not so sure.
Sure there is, the philosophy and the strategy are tied together though. But it is responsible for things like the Gracie Challenge, The UFC, etc.

It is very different then Karate, and it is approached very differently (No "spiritual" lessons), but there is a distinct philosophy to BJJ.

[arnisador]

OK, I can agree with this, but I think philosophy is too strong a word for their strategy and views, when compared to the pacifism taught in many styles of Karate. They have more of a way of doing business, I'd say--a vision.

[Gemini]

However, martial Artists are pack animals and are very territorial. If they encounter a member or members of a rival pack they tend to get aggressive and posture themselves defensively. They don't like to admit this though, and in person most are able to mask these feelings. Given the annonymity of the internet and that they will not get "called" on anything they say and be put in a position of having to defend it on the mat these feelings will come out and they will lash out at members of other packs.
This would accurately describe my upbringing in martial arts. That includes the boards I used to go to. Right up until I came here. I was amazed at how almost everyone put their focus on the similarities of their arts and training instead of the obvious differences.

MT has given me a very different perspective on other arts and their members. So much that I've become fascinated with other arts and really would like to train in them. In addition to, not in place of my beloved TKd, of course.

[Jonathan Randall]

This is so true. Black belts can be bought, lots of McDojo's, lots of young, immature people in the arts who have the need to be right about everything. Then there are those who just can't respectfully disagree. Lots of testosterone induced chest thumping.
I wish it were only this. Unfortunately, many of the worst behaved, most immature and egotistical individuals I have met in the arts (in person or online) have been legitimately ranked, forty-five year old (or older) experienced traditionalists.

I don't think age is as much of a factor here as character and emotional maturity; who takes a 19 year old "master" of falsified lineage as seriously as a fifty year old child man with a high ranking, legitimately earned dan? My opinion is that a fifty year old child man does FAR, FAR more damage to the reputation of the arts than ANY 15-30 year old can.

[Jade Tigress]

I wish it were only this. Unfortunately, many of the worst behaved, most immature and egotistical individuals I have met in the arts (in person or online) have been legitimately ranked, forty-five year old (or older) experienced traditionalists.

I don't think age is as much of a factor here as character and emotional maturity; who takes a 19 year old "master" of falsified lineage as seriously as a fifty year old child man with a high ranking, legitimately earned dan? My opinion is that a fifty year old child man does FAR, FAR more damage to the reputation of the arts than ANY 15-30 year old can.

I agree and didn't mean to imply age was a sole factor, just another small facet of the overall population that can contribute to the problem. There are a couple young (high school age) brown belts in my class who are very humble and respectful and put many adults to shame. They are also well skilled in our art. The good thing about young people learning martial arts is that a good school produces these characteristics.

Also, you're right on the button that a fifty year old child man does far more damage to the reputation of the arts than any 15-30 year old can. I suppose I should have said immature people rather than young, immature people.

:asian: