The measure of a person.

[Tgace]

This is one of my favorite quotes....


"When speaking of Bushido, the three qualities considered essential are loyalty, integrity and courage. When these three virtues are perfectly combined in one man, he is called a samurai of the highest quality...The reason is that the courage of a warrior is not exhibited for the first time when he dons his armor, takes up spear and halberd, faces the field, and is locked in battle. A man's ordinary life at peace reflects his courage or cowardice just like a mirror...Having the least bit of spare time, he will put his mind to Learning, and not be negligent in his practice of the martial arts...He will protect his health fully and will keep in mind the desire to perform at least once in his life a great meritorious deed. Having such a disposition, he will be deeply mindful of his own constitution and be moderate in his desires for food and drink. He will give wide berth to and be very prudent in matters of sex, that primary deluder of men, and, other than that, will endure anything. All these evidence a man's courage."

-bushidoshoshinshu


I find the concept that a persons everyday life and actions are the TRUE measure of a person very interesting. Everybody thinks "when the **** hits the fan I will stand up and act" but when the neighbor kid is out blasting his car stero at 2 am he is afraid to open his window and say anything. People talk about ethics and warriorship and "doing the right thing", but what do they do in their everyday life? Really look at yourself and the people around you. If you dont like what you see in yourself and your actions either change yourself or accept your reality.

Opinions?

[Sapper6]

makes perfect sense. warrior spirit is not a hobby; it is a way of life.

great quote. :)

[Cryozombie]

I measure out to about 1/2 a cup. Maybe 3/4 on a good day.

I USED to be the guy who stood up. Woe be unto the soccer mom who started yelling at the clerk in line in front of me because of a store policy that the clerk had nothing to do with... and other assorted "little" daily "battles".

A recent event in my life has proven somthing very very clearly to me.

NEVER get involved. Right, Wrong, Otherwise... It doesnt matter. You will be unappreciated by the people you help, judged harshly by those on the outside, and whatever the outcome, YOU WILL LOSE.

I have suffered a lot the past couple years... but I always did it "Face to the Blast" (minus my venting online in my online Blog). I made the effort not to let it change my heart... I made the effort to grow stronger thru it all... BUT This last round really opened my eyes... when my taking a stand and trying to do what was right almost cost me things that are so important to me... I concluded that I've been far too Naieve.

So the measure of my worth is about 1/2 a cup.

Sorry for the rant. Tgace, it was a good quote... Just dunno if I buy it anymore.

[Flying Crane]

yow!

[Tgace]

Well..my response is that "standing up" has many different nuisances. Any action must be weighed against the law and possible repercussions. Telling the neighbor kid to turn the boom box down is different from yelling "turn that ****n **** off or Im gonna blow your ****'n head off!!!!" and if that neighbor kid is a Blood member with 5 friends that you believe may be armed, then the response is going to be different. The diference is in if you "respond" or not.

My point here is that many people go to MA class and think they are being imbued with mystical rays of "warriorship" and "honor", when its their life at work, family, home, out shopping or at the park that is where the true "measure" of the person is seen.

[Tgace]

I think this thread has some connection...

http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?p=436656#post436656

[Lisa]

<snip>

My point here is that many people go to MA class and think they are being imbued with mystical rays of "warriorship" and "honor", when its their life at work, family, home, out shopping or at the park that is where the true "measure" of the person is seen.

Family and home to me are the true measures of a person. If you can raise kids with integrity and honesty these days, you truly and obviously know what a measure of a person really is. Nice quote Tom.

[Phoenix44]

I tend to agree with Tgace, and I'd even expand it. "The Way" of the Samurai was not only about warfare, but also included more refined activities: tea ceremony, flower arranging, calligraphy. And of course it involved doing one's duty.

If we translate this into modern life, "The Way" might mean more than standing up during an argument or altercation. The way I see it, it means being honest, being fair in your business dealings, doing your job to the best of your ability, bearing your responsibility toward your family, friends and community, keeping commitments, being persistent in your efforts, respecting your body.

In my family, we're all martial artists, and it plays out in all of our activities. ("Of course you can run the charity 5K! If you have to, you can always walk." or "Well, if you're going to take that attitude, Mom, maybe you need to take your black belt test again")

[Martial Tucker]

I tend to agree with Tgace, and I'd even expand it. "The Way" of the Samurai was not only about warfare, but also included more refined activities: tea ceremony, flower arranging, calligraphy. And of course it involved doing one's duty.

If we translate this into modern life, "The Way" might mean more than standing up during an argument or altercation. The way I see it, it means being honest, being fair in your business dealings, doing your job to the best of your ability, bearing your responsibility toward your family, friends and community, keeping commitments, being persistent in your efforts, respecting your body.

In my family, we're all martial artists, and it plays out in all of our activities. ("Of course you can run the charity 5K! If you have to, you can always walk." or "Well, if you're going to take that attitude, Mom, maybe you need to take your black belt test again") I agree too, and love this thread.

To me, the "Way" is basically holding yourself to a higher standard than the typical person in all aspects of life.
In matters involving, among other things, ethics, morality, personal responsibility, education, and personal development, both physical and mental. And all the while, making some small effort daily to make a positive difference in at least one stranger's life, while setting an example of leadership and perserverance to your family.

Here's a related quote I've always liked:
"The real person you are is revealed in the moments when you're certain no other person is watching. When no one is watching, you are driven by what you expect of yourself. You're not attempting to impress anyone. You're not putting on a show. You're expressing your true nature. The foundation of success is built in the moments when no one else is watching. If your efforts are only made for appearance, they will fall short. When you make the effort even though no one else is keeping track, that's a sure path to achievement.

What do you do when no one is watching? You can't keep any secrets from yourself. Success is built in the moments when you're truly free to be you. Make those moments count. Being a real winner is much better than just trying to look like one."

[MJS]

This is one of my favorite quotes....



I find the concept that a persons everyday life and actions are the TRUE measure of a person very interesting. Everybody thinks "when the **** hits the fan I will stand up and act" but when the neighbor kid is out blasting his car stero at 2 am he is afraid to open his window and say anything. People talk about ethics and warriorship and "doing the right thing", but what do they do in their everyday life? Really look at yourself and the people around you. If you dont like what you see in yourself and your actions either change yourself or accept your reality.

Opinions?

Great quote Tom! :asian:

I agree with your statement though. Sometimes, we don't think before we speak, or as you said, do a complete turn-around when we're actually faced with a confrontation. Myself, I've tried to focus more on that thinking before we speak mentality due to the fact that 99% of the time, its just not worth it.

Mike

[Tgace]

"He will protect his health fully and will keep in mind the desire to perform at least once in his life a great meritorious deed. "

Does anybody do this? Do you ever actively think... every once and a while... that someday, when the "time" comes, that you will "stand".

[Bester]

So, if a person is a butthead, their instructor is a butthead, their training partners are buttheads...what does this truely say?

[Tgace]

A butthead is as a butthead does.....

[Tgace]

"Courage is like a muscle. The more we exercise it, the stronger it gets. I sometimes worry that our collective courage is growing weaker from disuse. We don't demand it from our leaders, and our leaders don't demand it from us. The courage deficit is both our problem and our fault. As a result, too many leaders in the public and private sectors lack the courage necessary to honor their obligations to others and to uphold the essential values of leadership. Often, they display a startling lack of accountability for their mistakes and a desire to put their own self-interest above the common good."

-U.S. Senator John McCain

[TonyM.]

Wonderfull quote. I'd give ya some more rep if they'd let me.

[Tgace]

"No man can always be right. So the struggle is to do one's best, to keep the brain and conscience clear, never be swayed by unworthy motives or inconsequential reasons, but to strive to unearth the basic factors involved, then do one's duty."

-Eisenhower

[Solidman82]

I really enjoy that quote, and the ideals stated in it. But I think we need to remember that it was written in a different time and Honor, Courage and Integrity just don't work the same way anymore. I wish it did and people could just be good people and treat eachother with respect and dignity as human beings should. These days practicing the morals stated above means sacrifice , and I know from personal experience. Not that I'm saying I don't believe in the morals. But it is unfortunate that good "persons" have to take the fall because "people" as a whole aren't good anymore. I have a feeling that if more people were as the bushido states they should be we wouldn't be as poor off as we are now.

[Tgace]

They are what YOU make of them....the times are of no significance.

[Solidman82]

it's nice to think that I can change the world (and one day that goal will definately have some substance) but there is no disagreeing that we can't just have an honorable duel with a gang member and expect the rest of them to standby and watch in admiration of their clan peer. I use that as an example because an one occasion I had to protect my friend from a mob (I'm not saying I took on a mob, there's alot to the story) it ended up in my first barefisted fight and broken nose along with a concussion. I'm not saying that I wouldn't make the same decision to have honor and courage and protect her, but it was very unfortunate it went that far.

[shesulsa]

"He will protect his health fully and will keep in mind the desire to perform at least once in his life a great meritorious deed. "

Does anybody do this? Do you ever actively think... every once and a while... that someday, when the "time" comes, that you will "stand".
Yes. Self-sacrafice in order to better the world by doing one good thing is what is so LOST on many people in the Age of Me. I don't think most people understand how powerful the act of volunteerism is, whether it is to accomplish some dangerous deed or to spend 15 minutes with a child or to put one's name in to make a difference in the community.

It takes making a stand. It is what America started as.

Too many people want to know "why should I give up my hard earned money or my time when I've taken the time to learn, educate myself and get a job? why can't others do the same thing? why do I have to pay taxes to provide for someone else? why should I have to take my time to gather food for someone else? why should I try to police my neighborhood? that's the job of the police, why should I do it? ..." and a million other excuses for a million other things.

Q: Why?

A: Because.

When it's go time, ya gotta pull up your intestines and know what to do.

[Martial Tucker]

Yes. Self-sacrafice in order to better the world by doing one good thing is what is so LOST on many people in the Age of Me. I don't think most people understand how powerful the act of volunteerism is, whether it is to accomplish some dangerous deed or to spend 15 minutes with a child or to put one's name in to make a difference in the community.

It takes making a stand. It is what America started as.
This sums up my sentiment exactly......Each of us is here for a reason. We each have some special talent, ability, or quality that we can draw upon to
make some kind of positive difference in someone else's life, even if it's a total stranger in an unlikely situation. We all will have many (and often unexpected) opportunities in our lives to "make a difference". I think a big part of how we will be judged in the end will be determined by how we respond during our lives to those opportunities.

"From whom much is given, much is expected."

[Tgace]

Too many people want to know "why should I give up my hard earned money or my time when I've taken the time to learn, educate myself and get a job? why can't others do the same thing? why do I have to pay taxes to provide for someone else? The problem is that forcing people (a la the government) to sacrifice for the greater good imparts no "honor" upon them. We all pay taxes whether we like it or not. The "honor and glory" comes from willingly giving of yourself even when you dont have to. IMO that starts with upbringing, education, training and practice. When you start to do the small things because they are the right things to do, the more likely you are to do the big things when they come along.

What I find interesting is the thank you letters posted on my dept. walls. Most of them are from officers doing "small" things. Being understanding at natural death calls, transporting people to the airport when their car broke down, finding a lost dog etc. Rarely do you see them for the BIG calls arresting the armed guy that robbed them, etc. Its as if the big events are what we are there for and expected to do, the smaller acts of kindness seem to surprise them more often....

[Bigshadow]

The diference is in if you "respond" or not.
I would like to add another important nuance... Responding doesn't necessarily mean confronting. At times, there are ways of dealing with things without confrontation.

[Bigshadow]

Family and home to me are the true measures of a person. If you can raise kids with integrity and honesty these days, you truly and obviously know what a measure of a person really is. Nice quote Tom.
I agree!

[Tgace]

I would like to add another important nuance... Responding doesn't necessarily mean confronting. At times, there are ways of dealing with things without confrontation.
Yes...many martial artists dont consider that. They hear "respond" and automatically think it means a fight.

[Martial Tucker]

The problem is that forcing people (a la the government) to sacrifice for the greater good imparts no "honor" upon them. We all pay taxes whether we like it or not. The "honor and glory" comes from willingly giving of yourself even when you dont have to. IMO that starts with upbringing, education, training and practice. When you start to do the small things because they are the right things to do, the more likely you are to do the big things when they come along.

What I find interesting is the thank you letters posted on my dept. walls. Most of them are from officers doing "small" things. Being understanding at natural death calls, transporting people to the airport when their car broke down, finding a lost dog etc. Rarely do you see them for the BIG calls arresting the armed guy that robbed them, etc. Its as if the big events are what we are there for and expected to do, the smaller acts of kindness seem to surprise them more often.... I agree with all of this. And as for the smaller acts of kindness, I think they truly are the ones that people don't expect, because our society has drifted away from the acts of common courtesy and concern for others, that used to be taken for granted.

I'm not just referring to acts by paid public servants, but by typical citizens. The really great thing is that, for each of us, extending a small act of courtesy or kindness to someone who really needs it usually takes a minimum of extra effort on our part, but it can make a major impact on the
lives of those we reach out to, in ways we may never know about.

[shesulsa]

The problem is that forcing people (a la the government) to sacrifice for the greater good imparts no "honor" upon them. Wouldn't it be nice if everyone would just WANT to do the honorable thing? Unfortunately that's not the way that it is. There are, as I said, millions of excuses as to why someone can't do the honorable thing - not enough time, not enough money, not enough energy, it's too much work, it's too much effort, it's ... too much and not enough. Most of us when faced with small, medium or big challenges will turn tail or turn up nose. Is it a dishonorable thing to draw the honorable deed from another man? I'm not so sure I think so.


We all pay taxes whether we like it or not. The "honor and glory" comes from willingly giving of yourself even when you dont have to. IMO that starts with upbringing, education, training and practice. When you start to do the small things because they are the right things to do, the more likely you are to do the big things when they come along. Agreed.

[Tgace]

The price of freedom is having to deal with those persons. Im not so sure Im for forcing anything out of anybody, honorable or not, unless their actions infringe on the rights of another.

Wishing things were otherwise? Thats another story.

[RickRed]

The price of freedom is having to deal with those persons. Im not so sure Im for forcing anything out of anybody honorable or not unless their actions infringe on the rights of another.

Wishing things were otherwise? Thats another story.
You might misread motives if the actions were the same from two people because both were under forced conditions.

One might really be doing it because they were honorable while the other was only doing it because of force.

If you tried to pick which one to be a leader based on the action, but didn't really know the motive you could pick poorly.

It might not be perfect, but being able to watch how people act in a choice setting is a great way to know what kind of person they really are in the end.

It's the old "If you saw a 20 dollar bill on the ground..." scenario.

[Sapper6]

Yes...many martial artists dont consider that. They hear "respond" and automatically think it means a fight.

you mean are "other" ways to respond? :boxing:

[Flying Crane]

It's the old "If you saw a 20 dollar bill on the ground..." scenario.
coincidentally, i just found a 20 dollar bill on the ground the other day. I did look around, nobody else was there, and there were no more 20 dollar bills on the ground either!

[Tgace]

Perhaps a full wallet with ID would be the better example....

[Tgace]

"The supreme quality for leadership is unquestionably integrity. Without it, no real success is possible, no matter whether it is on a section gang, a football field, in an army, or in an office."
-Dwight D. Eisenhower

Integrity (http://encyclopedia.laborlawtalk.com/integrity) comprises the personal inner sense of "wholeness" deriving from honesty and consistent uprightness of character. (The etymology of the word relates it to the Latin adjective integer (whole, complete). Evaluators, of course, usually assess integrity from some point of view, such as that of a given ethical tradition or in the context of an ethical relationship. People who for instance said bad things about their own grandmother might appear to lack a form of integrity.

[Martial Tucker]

"The supreme quality for leadership is unquestionably integrity. Without it, no real success is possible, no matter whether it is on a section gang, a football field, in an army, or in an office."
-Dwight D. Eisenhower


Absolutely. If a leader is analogous to a lighthouse, then integrity is the bedrock that the lighthouse must be built upon, or it will be washed away
during a storm.

[Flying Crane]

Perhaps a full wallet with ID would be the better example....
Hah! that happened to me recently too! I found a wallet with cash, bank card, credit card, and ID. I work in a legal office, and we have online search tools that we can use to track people down. I was able to verify that the owner had moved to a different residence than the one listed on the driver's license, and I mailed the wallet to her. She sent me cookies!!!

[arnisador]

I found a $20 bill once. My then-girlfriend was with me and assumed I would want to give it to her and snatched it from my hand. Women!

[Solidman82]

She sounds scary man o_o

[Kenpobldr]

I found a $20 bill once. My then-girlfriend was with me and assumed I would want to give it to her and snatched it from my hand. Women!
If my wife finds money in the laundry she keeps it but if I find money in the laundry she still keeps it.

[Gemini]

If my wife finds money in the laundry she keeps it but if I find money in the laundry she still keeps it.Sounds too familiar. Your wife's name isn't Laura, is it? :rolleyes:

[Lisa]

If my wife finds money in the laundry she keeps it but if I find money in the laundry she still keeps it.

To help motivate my youngest to do the laundry, we told her that whatever she finds is hers. My husband and I are now very careful as to clean out our pockets of any paper money, but always make sure there are a few bucks in change in there a week. Ahh... bribery it works great! :D

[shesulsa]

I found a $20 bill once. My then-girlfriend was with me and assumed I would want to give it to her and snatched it from my hand. Women! I found a $20 on the floor in the market recently. I looked around, nobody seemed to be looking for anything, we walked back and forth and looked if people were spilling money - nothing. My daughter suddenly had a feeling this woman at the register was looking for money in her purse. I casually walked over to her and her caucasian MALE checker was rolling his eyes (she and her friend were African-American). I heard her say "I just had it here" and discussing with her friend so I offered it to her. The MALE checker made a disapproving sound and looked at me like I was nuts. Men!

[arnisador]

Yeah, men are the pits.

Well, good for you for being a Good Samaritan!

I find pennies all the time. My daughter collects them in her penny book so she gets them all.

WHo are the people who are constantly dropping pennies in the mall, parking lot, etc.?

[Martial Tucker]

Yeah, men are the pits.

Well, good for you for being a Good Samaritan!

I find pennies all the time. My daughter collects them in her penny book so she gets them all.

WHo are the people who are constantly dropping pennies in the mall, parking lot, etc.?

Probably the same people who are losing the single shoes I see so often on the roadside as I drive around!

[Navarre]

What?? You found my pennies? .. Cool!

Wait right there and I'm come pick them up.

Sorry, it'll take me a bit to get there. I seem to be missing a shoe.

[arnisador]

Heh. I came across single shoes twice yesterday. One was child-sized, one larger. They must go with the socks eaten by the dryer.

Our understanding of physics is not what we think it is, I fear...tehre must be an explanation!

[shesulsa]

WHo are the people who are constantly dropping pennies in the mall, parking lot, etc.?
They're pennydroppers!! (Duh :rolleyes: )

[Solidman82]

they're people who don't know the value of a good training tool! (IE. the shaolin coin trick)

[Tgace]

The opposite of integrity is manipulation.
-Thesaurus

[Solidman82]

The opposite of integrity is manipulation.
-Thesaurus
Wow, that's actually quite a revelation to me.