fighting a drunk!?

[MTisGreat]

i hear drunks get crazy when they're drunk. i mean no feeling at all. when u work MA, u hurt the opponent and they are disabled, but if a drunk takes a few swings at ya, how are u goin to defnd against a that.....?

[Jay Bell]

I can honestly say, I would much rather have someone drunk attacking me then someone with full senses that is alert.

Drunk people have no balance, coordination or focus.

It's neat.

[sweeper]

yeah I would agree.. ok look at it this way.. have one of your MA freinds over and drinka bunch than go at it.. you don't feal pain as much but you can't hit your opponant :-p

[cdhall]

Originally posted by MTisGreat

i hear drunks get crazy when they're drunk. i mean no feeling at all. when u work MA, u hurt the opponent and they are disabled, but if a drunk takes a few swings at ya, how are u goin to defnd against a that.....?

My first instructor had a story about this once. A guy "took" him outside... and threw a punch, as noted Drunks are slow and uncoordinated..., so my instructor slipped the punch and did a takedown. No striking.

The guy got up and did it again. Same result.

The third time, the guy threw a left instead of a right and was taken down again. The takedown was not violent... but it did put the guy on the ground and my instructor was untouched.

The guy gets up for the third time and asks "Had enough?" My instructor said "Yes." And the guy left.

There were no violent strikes to the Drunk who obviously was no match for Sifu. Sifu gave us this as an example of how to handle such a situation. Since you have some BJJ training you may know some ways to take someone down and restrain them, or tie them up while standing.

I imagine that most of your MT would be destructive and damaging, but even so, you may have techniques that you could use at 1/4 power or alter the target (Kenpo Equation Formula is useful here) so that you strike to a non-vital area and/or disturb the balance... and dispatch your opponent unharmed as illustrated.

:asian:

[kenpo12]

I would rather not underestimate my opponant, drunk or not. Who know, you might end up with someone like "Tank" Abbott drunk swinging at you. Somehow I think he's not someone I want to mess with drunk or not.

[Cruentus]

A quick suggestion:

Stomach shots are good. Drunks often don't have the reaction time to tense their stomach muscles, and a good shot might make them throw up.

Just watch the erruption!

;)

[Cruentus]

Be careful joint locking drunks. Their pain threshold is higher, and you might have to break them before they'll respond.

So you might want to stick to control manuevers that will "lock" but not "break" if you don't want to.

That is, of course, unless you want to.:shrug:

Just some advise from my limited bouncing experience.

[LanceWildcat1]

I have to agree with Paul on this one. Having been jumped by drunks in the past, the best way to handle the situation, IMHO, is to use control technique's, rather than striking technique's. With control technique's, there is a much less chance of anyone getting injured in this type of altercation. You may, however, have to hold the technique for awhile, until they realize that they need to get control of themselves, or you can leave. Walking away from an altercation with someone who is impaired by drugs or alcohol is the best way to avoid physical confrontation.

[Bushido]

Never underestimate anyone, but drunks have nearly no reflexes and no balance. Most of them are not too hard to deal with.


-Bushido

[SolidTiger]

What if you run into it with a drunk that know drunken style kung fu. How would you fight him?

Thank you

SolidTiger

[LanceWildcat1]

What if you run into it with a drunk that know drunken style kung fu. How would you fight him?
Probably sit back and laugh. A drunk has all the coordination of a one legged giraffe baby!! In other words-none! If nothing else, keep out of his reach. If he's drunk, he'll soon wear himself out and get sick.
Just watch out for flying do-do!! :o :eek:

[Bushido]

Originally posted by SolidTiger

What if you run into it with a drunk that know drunken style kung fu. How would you fight him?

Thank you

SolidTiger

LMAO :rofl:


-Bushido

[SolidTiger]

Who have ever seen drunken style kung fu?

Because I have seen some, and a drunken artist have great fighting technique.

Thank You

SolidTiger

[LanceWildcat1]

SolidTiger:

Who have ever seen drunken style kung fu?

There is a big difference between practicing Drunken Style Boxing, and doing kung fu when drunk. The major difference is in the sobriety of the practitioner. The lower the sobriety level, the lower the quality of the kungfu!

[Nightingale]

most drunks will still notice:

a finger in the eye
a fist in the stomach
a spearhand to the throat

if they can't see, are throwing up, or can't breathe, they're not thinking about hitting you.

[Robbo]

I'm sure that the practioner's of this style IMITATE the movements of a drunk person in order to be unpredictable. I'm reasonably sure they do not have to drink in order for their style to work and if they did drink it would NOT make them a better fighter.

Thanks,
Rob

[LanceWildcat1]

nightingale8472:

most drunks will still notice:
a finger in the eye
a fist in the stomach
a spearhand to the throat
if they can't see, are throwing up, or can't breathe, they're not thinking about hitting you.

That pretty much spells it out, alright!

[SolidTiger]

But can a fighter that do drunken style fight when drunk?

Thats the anwser I won't to know, and If so how would you fight a fighter that can move around your punches and kick so well?

Thank You

SolidTiger

[karatekid1975]

I agree with the controlling techniques instead of the striking. Half the time they are so drunk, they are just shooting off with the mouth (beer muscles). If you take'em down and keep'em there till they're tired, they won't fight back (specially if you have a good hold on them where they can't move, but yet you're not really doing damage). They prolly won't remember in the morning anyways.

I like the "makes them throw up" thing :rofl: That'll prolly work. Hit'em in the gut, and make'em toss they're cookies (or beer for that matter). After barfing, I don't think they'd have the energy to fight LOL.

[LanceWildcat1]

If he's drunk, I don't think that you have to really worry about how he moves. Most of his moves will be so telegraphed that an elephant would have time to move out of the way!

[Dronak]

Originally posted by SolidTiger

But can a fighter that do drunken style fight when drunk?

Can he? Sure, why not? Anyone can fight while drunk regardless of the style they've learned. Will a person who knows a drunken style fight *well* while drunk? I really doubt it. As mentioned, you shouldn't underestimate anyone, but a drunk fighter should be less of a problem than a sober one.

As noted, being drunk tends to make you lose your balance, coordination, and reflexes (as in they get slower). Fighting by imitating a drunk is not the same as fighting while drunk, like LanceWildcat1 and Robbo said. If you're drunk, I doubt you're going to fight well no matter what style you've learned. The alcohol has too many negative effects that will impair your fighting ability. About the only exposure to drunken boxing I have is from watching a video clip of a form on the web. :) But it was certainly interesting to see. I doubt that someone who is drunk would have the coordination, balance, and reflexes to be able to perform some of those moves at all, let alone properly. So I don't think a drunken style fighter who is fighting while drunk is necessarily any more of a threat than any other martial artists fighting while drunk.

[kenpo12]

Just judging by the posts I've seen, I hope no one here gets into a fight with a drunk. I feel many of the posts here reflect an underestimation of drunk people. I have seen drunk people do a great job fighting. Being drunk makes you relaxed, and gives you a higher threshold for pain. There balance may be off but you should write them off. I'm not saying they are not at a dissadvantage but they also are unpredictable and will be tougher to hurt than a sober opponent.

[LanceWildcat1]

A great MA movie that I saw once was titled "Drunken Master". It was great, but being around the MA's, I realized that the moves that were done in that movie were definitely not done by a drunk!!! :asian:

[arnisador]

Originally posted by kenpo12

Just judging by the posts I've seen, I hope no one here gets into a fight with a drunk. I feel many of the posts here reflect an underestimation of drunk people. I have seen drunk people do a great job fighting. Being drunk makes you relaxed, and gives you a higher threshold for pain. There balance may be off but you should write them off. I'm not saying they are not at a dissadvantage but they also are unpredictable and will be tougher to hurt than a sober opponent.

Well said, and I agree. I think people are really underestimating the drunks. Yes they are at a disadvantage in many ways but they also have some "advantages", as much as I hesitate to use that term. I wouldn't count on the pain-inducing techniques, though certainly they could work, depending on the amount of alcoholand how they react to it. (The effects of narcotic drugs can be to truly deaden a person to pain.) Maybe ex-bouncer Rich Parsons or notoriuous drunk PAUL will comment on the issue of drunken opponents.

(Just kidding about PAUL!)

[LanceWildcat1]

Originally posted by kenpo12

Just judging by the posts I've seen, I hope no one here gets into a fight with a drunk. I feel many of the posts here reflect an underestimation of drunk people. I have seen drunk people do a great job fighting. Being drunk makes you relaxed, and gives you a higher threshold for pain. There balance may be off but you should write them off. I'm not saying they are not at a dissadvantage but they also are unpredictable and will be tougher to hurt than a sober opponent.

I have been in fights with drunks. Never underestimate them, but realize their limitations-cognitive skills shot to hell, reactions shot to hell, speed slowed, etc. Never, however, write an 'opponent' off! I disagree with the line"...and will be tougher to hurt than a sober opponent.". A drunk is easier to hurt, simply because his brain is slow to tell his body that he is hurt. Fighting with a drunk is something that is done with great restraint, because of the fact that they will not recongnize the pain, and therefore not react normally to it.

[Rich Parsons]

Originally posted by PAUL

Be careful joint locking drunks. Their pain threshold is higher, and you might have to break them before they'll respond.

So you might want to stick to control manuevers that will "lock" but not "break" if you don't want to.

That is, of course, unless you want to.:shrug:

Just some advise from my limited bouncing experience.

Paul, Paul, Paul, (* Shakes Head *)

Did you really break that guys wrist?, Oh wait that was me, who
broke that drunk guys wrist.

Yes ladies and Gentlemen, Drunks do not feel the pain, control, as stated by othes, has the best effect. This sounds funny, but
while wrestling with one drunk guy I rolled over onto my back. I brought him with me, and as soon as the drunk saw the big empty sky he relaxed. It was easy to hold him until my back up arrived.

Good Luck to everyone who finds themsleves in this type of a situation.

Rich

PS - Paul - I knew I could take my opening - Thanks
:asian:

[Rich Parsons]

Originally posted by arnisador



Well said, and I agree. I think people are really underestimating the drunks. Yes they are at a disadvantage in many ways but they also have some "advantages", as much as I hesitate to use that term. I wouldn't count on the pain-inducing techniques, though certainly they could work, depending on the amount of alcoholand how they react to it. (The effects of narcotic drugs can be to truly deaden a person to pain.) Maybe ex-bouncer Rich Parsons or notoriuous drunk PAUL will comment on the issue of drunken opponents.

(Just kidding about PAUL!)


Where to begin?

1) Always be aware - Drunks have friends, even friends they did not know they had, but just someone else looking to get in on the fun.

2) Drunks, feel lots of pain the next day, but feel nothing that moment. As for the eyes and throat, yes if they cannot see or breath they cannot fight you, but are you willing to go to court for this drunk guy, and defend yourself against his Dad's Lawyer because he cannot see or 'never sing again?' ?

My Answer, Did it one too many times, hand cuffs suck even when you have witnesses, the cops take you away and sort it out later. After you have been treated just like the other criminals.

3) Control techniques, including your brain and mouth. Know when to let them walk away with the last word. Know when to let think they have bested you in a battle of wits. Know when to allow the opponent to believe that they have one i.e. the story told by the 'Sifu' reported here.

Control techniques of the body, are great, yet when it comes to figting, the bouncer risks too much every time a punch is thrown.
If you can seem to reslove all the issues of getting the people out with out the punches being thrown, the respect by others and the one taken out side will be greater. For yes boys and girls they do come back. If they only came back after being puched, or escorted out then they will most likely be calm when they return. If they have something broken, they might come back looking for the trouble and not be drunk.

Can you say 'BANG BANG', Besides Remo Williams, and other TV movie types, I do not know of anyone in reality dodging bullets.

4) Drunks, are drunks. Walk away and go home. That is my best suggestion. I know the what if you cannot, ..., well than use your brain and other weapons accordingly.

Best Wishes

Rich

PS - Never Volunteer to be a bouncer, unless you know in your mind that it does not matter if you get beat up. Just my opinion.

[Nightingale]

Originally posted by Rich Parsons






2) Drunks, feel lots of pain the next day, but feel nothing that moment. As for the eyes and throat, yes if they cannot see or breath they cannot fight you, but are you willing to go to court for this drunk guy, and defend yourself against his Dad's Lawyer because he cannot see or 'never sing again?' ?

My Answer, Did it one too many times, hand cuffs suck even when you have witnesses, the cops take you away and sort it out later. After you have been treated just like the other criminals.



A very wise man once said "I'd rather be tried by twelve than carried by six."

[Cruentus]

Drunks, are drunks. Walk away and go home.

Wise Rich, this is the best advise yet!


Never Volunteer to be a bouncer, unless you know in your mind that it does not matter if you get beat up. Just my opinion.

I fully agree!!!

Now Rich, lets go to the post bar this weekend, have a few beers, drive down to Arnisador, and let Arnisador show us how to beat on us drunks! :rofl: :drinkbeer :cheers: :ultracool

[sweeper]

nightingale that's good advise if those are your only options, as long as their is a nother or a midigation of the last one than the first option starts to look not so good.

I have never faught a drunk, but when you are drunbk you loose consentration and you tend to get tunnle vission, as a MT fighter I would bet your best bet is a jab round kick combination.. I would also imagine being drunk would lend it's self well to a brawling style of boxing or maybe a ground and pound.

[arnisador]

Originally posted by PAUL

Now Rich, lets go to the post bar this weekend, have a few beers, drive down to Arnisador, and let Arnisador show us how to beat on us drunks!

Drive first, drink later!

No Jacuzzi hear PAUL but we do have a nice big pool that's quite warm.

[tshadowchaser]

Haveing led a clean, upright, puritanical life its hard gor me to relate to this thread:rofl: :cheers: Yah Right.:drinkbeer

I have know a few people who drank way more than they should most of the time. And I'm telling you if you had messed with them you would not have come out on top.
They drank so much it was normal to be half in the bag. There reflexes where trained while in this condition. Many people would have thought them totaly drunk that would have been wrong.
If someone is falling down vomitiong all over the place thats totaly drunk If they smell of booze and have been putting them down all day they still may not be drunk in the way this thread is discribeing.
Best make sure how DRUNK someone is befor thinking they can't fight (or do forms):soapbox:

Shadow:asian:

[Rich Parsons]

Originally posted by nightingale8472




A very wise man once said "I'd rather be tried by twelve than carried by six."

:soapbox:

Nightingale8472,

I do not disagree with this statement. I may disagree with many of the things the original person who made this statement famous has said. that is a different story.

Me Personally, Yes I stop the drunk or non drunk from hitting the girl or the women or the kid or even another guy. I get involved, why? If I knew I would go get it fixed. But, for some unknown reason I seem to care about those that are not able to defend themselves, or are at a major disadvantage, that their own mouths did not get them into.

Question sir, I really do not expect a response, but I must ask this for you and others to seriously think about.

When was the last time you killed a human being or thought you had killed someone? Did You throw up right afterwards, or was it hours later. Did it come naturally to take the life of another? I used to think a long time ago, I could do anything and take on anyone and deal with the issues later. Have you dropped someone on their head so they were unconscious and not breathing. Did you then try to keep the spine and neck as straight as possible and then to clear the throat of their tongue? Or would you have just walked away. For walking away could be made to look real bad for the 12 and then you could still be carried by six in some states. Yes, I did clear the guys throat and he did start to breath. As I dropped him, yes I wanted to Kill him. That was my motive since he was trying to kick me in the face while I was prone on my hands and knees.

Just be really seriously prepared to answer ALL the questions the cops ask you with, I do not remember, I don't know, or I want my Lawyer. The first two will make it look like you are in shock, most likely you will be. The last is your only chance to get the questions to really stop, for a while. But, it makes you look like you have some thing to hide. Be prepared to spend Friday night to Monday morning in Jail until you can see a judge. And even then, if the Assistant DA can make a case of flight you might still sit in jail without bail, until the case has been further resolved.

I understand that yes if it is truly life or death then yes do what you need to do. But, what put you in that place to be life or death. The DA will ask you, believe me (s)he will ask that question. Why did you not walk away? If you are trained (* Also never admit to training, but do not deny it if asked *), why did you not do something else to get this person under control?

I know, he had a gun and you had the knife. But how did you know the gun was real or loaded? You might think I am trying to be funny, but this is another question I was asked by the cops and the DA. It is their job to find someone responsible and since the other guy is seriously hurt or dead you are the one who is prime to fill the opening.

Why, did you not just walk away? Here in Michigan if someone breaks into your house, it is the owners responsibility to leave the house and not harm the assailant or burglar. Yes this is the law, or at least the way it is currently interpreted by most of the courts. The items in your house or your car can be replaced, but the life or arm or leg of the person you hurt or killed cannot be replaced. No matter how disgusting that person might be to normal civilized people.

My apologies to everyone, including Nightingale, this post is just to make people think.

Yes Train hard, be prepared to do what it takes, but realize that many times if you saw it coming you should have walked away.

Have a nice and safe day

Rich

:asian:

PS - Remember these are only my opinions and you are more than entitled but encouraged to have your own.

[arnisador]

Excellent post Mr. Parsons. We see too many things wrapped up in one hour on TV--it's complicated out there though.

[Rich Parsons]

Originally posted by PAUL



I fully agree!!!

Now Rich, lets go to the post bar this weekend, have a few beers, drive down to Arnisador, and let Arnisador show us how to beat on us drunks! :rofl: :drinkbeer :cheers: :ultracool


Paul,

I would love to go to the bar and then go visit Arnisador. Except this weekend is out. I am packing for a work trip that will have me gone for two weeks as of Monday the 15th.

Real exciting to me this trip. I get to go around the world. :D

Detroit to Frankfurt Germany, Drive to Turin Italy, Fly back to Frankfurt then fly from Germany to Nagoya Japan for the second week and then fly
home from Nagoya to Detroit.

Now, if I just don't meet myself coming or going in the other direction. :rofl:

Rich
:cool:

[arnisador]

You guys are always welcome!

[Nightingale]

Originally posted by Rich Parsons




When was the last time you killed a human being or thought you had killed someone? Did You throw up right afterwards, or was it hours later. Did it come naturally to take the life of another? I used to think a long time ago, I could do anything and take on anyone and deal with the issues later. Have you dropped someone on their head so they were unconscious and not breathing. Did you then try to keep the spine and neck as straight as possible and then to clear the throat of their tongue? Or would you have just walked away. For walking away could be made to look real bad for the 12 and then you could still be carried by six in some states.

when I was attacked, I hung around long enough to make sure the guy had a pulse and was still breathing. At the time of the attack, I wasn't scared, because I wasn't thinking. I was just reacting. I got scared after I got in my car and drove a few miles down the freeway and started thinking about all the "what ifs." I then pulled into a well lit parking lot, proceeded to have a panic attack, pulled myself together and drove home.

[Rich Parsons]

Originally posted by nightingale8472



when I was attacked, I hung around long enough to make sure the guy had a pulse and was still breathing. At the time of the attack, I wasn't scared, because I wasn't thinking. I was just reacting. I got scared after I got in my car and drove a few miles down the freeway and started thinking about all the "what ifs." I then pulled into a well lit parking lot, proceeded to have a panic attack, pulled myself together and drove home.

NightingGale,

I am glad you survivied the encounter.

My Best wishes.

Rich

[Shotochem]

Heres an alternative strategy......Run!!! if possible. The drunk most likley has friends with him.

I have yet to see a drunk capable of running without falling over.

Im not the fastest guy in the world but a drunk makes me look like Carl Lewis.

If there is no chance of getting away a good side kick to the Knee will certainly slow him down.:eek:

Avoidance is best .....why go to jail for a drunken loser???