What is stronger offense or defense?

[SolidTiger]

I use a good defense but a stronger offense, I don't like to be getting punched at. I wont to be the one doing most of the punching even if my hits don't land sometimes, It leaves a fear
factor for my oponent. But Defense preserve your energy, so
you could stay on your feet and you can keep moving around.
If your on the offensive all the time, you will lose your energy
a lot faster. That's why I like to go with a good defense but a
better offense.

Thank You

SolidTiger

[GouRonin]

Ladies and gentlemen of the jury...

Muhammad Ali...

George Foreman...

Africa...

Foreman goes all offense...

Ali lays back and plays the rope-a-dope defense...

Foreman punches himself out...

Ali cleans his clock...

So much for furious offense...

I rest my case...

[Kirk]

Originally posted by GouRonin

Ladies and gentlemen of the jury...

Muhammad Ali...

George Foreman...

Africa...

Foreman goes all offense...

Ali lays back and plays the rope-a-dope defense...

Foreman punches himself out...

Ali cleans his clock...

So much for furious offense...

I rest my case...


If you wanna not be offensive, then wash your socks on
occasion, huh? ;)

Ladies and Gentlemen of the jury, the Canuck Terrier has made
a nice case, but I myself was involved in a situation, back in my
freshman year of college, outside of a bar. A man approached
me, talking trash, with a friend of his on each side of him, and
I stood there, a friend on each side of me. I quickly, yet obviously
glanced behind me, to insinuate that I had a friend back there,
ready to pounce. Not one, but all three of these dumb Phys Ed
majors looked behind them! (possible Canuck transplants??).
To quote Lawrence Welk, "Ah one anna two" went down before
their big bulbous heads looked back in my direction, and the third
was now faced with 3 to 1 odds. As dumb as he was, he wasn't
THAT dumb, which was good for him. It was also good for him
that he could run fast.

Just a little something for the jury to mull over. :)

[SolidTiger]

That was good you know, I could imagine that fight in my head
"lol"...

Will anyway Foreman is in a differant wight group, he is a heavy
and I am a middle wight. let's say that the more you wight the more powerful your punches are, but down side slow punches but
still powerful. Ali moves around like a middle wight but he has the
power of a heavywight. Foreman punches could not affect Ali because they where to slow, Speed, Form,Technique,Power, and
gracefulness Is the key.

Thank you

SolidTiger

"This is what I train for"

[GouRonin]

Originally posted by Kirk
If you wanna not be offensive, then wash your socks on
occasion, huh?

That's why I stopped wearing underwear too.


Originally posted by Kirk
Not one, but all three of these dumb Phys Ed
majors looked behind them! (possible Canuck transplants??).


Impossible. All canadians have huge I.Q.'s and with the exception of the drawl they are every bit as smart, usually smarter than most Texans.

You're thinking of those yahoos in California.

Anyway...as Mel, the cook from the TV show "Alice" said, "The best defense is a good offence." So sometimes it is handy to be the one kickin' @ss. I will give you that. There is a time for both.

As far as Solid Tiger is concerned that is an old Myth that larger people are slower. Should he not believe me then he is welcome to watch Mike Tyson work out on the heavybag.

The reason heavyweights look slower is that they can afford to set themelves up more. The flurry of a clash isn't as present as the middle weights. Also, the lighter weights don't have the one punch knock out power that heavyweights do on the same scale. They will throw more punches and generally give more action. This leads people to think they are faster.

[Cthulhu]

For me, the question is invalid. My belief is, like most things in the martial arts, what's 'best', 'better', or 'stronger' depends on the situation.

For example: faced with a knife wielding attacker.

1) if escape is possible, then running the hell away is best (ultimate defense...don't friggin' be there :) )

2) if there is no possibility of escape (no available exits, friend/family member who can't/won't run with you, etc.) and you feel you are in iminent danger, then yes, you need to be aggressively offensive. The other guy has a weapon.

Gah. Random babblings.

Cthulhu

[SolidTiger]

When I fight I hate to fight a defensive fight, because I don't
have that much patience for that. when you fight a defensive
you counter alot that's the kind of defense I use. So I get to
use a strong offensive with strong counter attacks. For attacking
I will block a punch or kick if I had to.

Thank You

SolidTiger

[sweeper]

in the ali/foman fight ali didn't dance around forman, he took a cr@p load of punches and forman got tired.

Also that was a special case, he had loosened the ropes to accomodate that strategie. Also foman was wearing boxing gloves..

in my opinion, in most situations the perosn with the initiative has the advantage, there are exceptions to this but I tihnk in most situations the person who lands the first punch wins the fight (like bare knuckle fight not ring fight ;))

[GouRonin]

Originally posted by sweeper
in the ali/foman fight ali didn't dance around forman, he took a cr@p load of punches and forman got tired.
Also that was a special case, he had loosened the ropes to accomodate that strategie. Also foman was wearing boxing gloves..

I checked but I never said that he danced around Foreman did I? I just said he played defensive. Sure there were circumstances but every encounter has specific ones.

I think Solid Tiger said it best. When he fights he hates to fight a certain way. So really he prefers to fight one way. It's up to the person I suppose but I think that each encounter calls for it's own rules.

[islandtime]

Originally posted by SolidTiger

I use a good defense but a stronger offense, I don't like to be getting punched at. I wont to be the one doing most of the punching even if my hits don't land sometimes, It leaves a fear
factor for my oponent. But Defense preserve your energy, so
you could stay on your feet and you can keep moving around.
If your on the offensive all the time, you will lose your energy
a lot faster. That's why I like to go with a good defense but a
better offense.

Thank You

SolidTiger
.................................................. .......................................

If defense consisted of only blocking and counterpunching as some styles use, I have to go with the person on the offense winning most every time.

If defense covers all defensive movements including not fighting and "not being there" I will go with defense




ene Gabel:asian:

[Yari]

I havn't voted, becuase the question is absurd.

It's like asking what technique is best? It doesn't exsist.

But if YOU feel that your offensive side is stronger than your defensive side, maybe that's a indication what you should be working on, and not betting on.

/Yari

[ECYili]

I'm not sure what some of you are meaning by defense? It seems that some of you are meaning defense as just blocking and dodging the attack. And some seem to be talking about blocking and then counter striking.

To me, when I think of defense, I think counter striking. As far as I believe and how the style I practice belives that you should never attack and that your out of balance with things when you do. Plus when you attack you leave yourself open.

The best thing as someone said earlier is not be there for someone to attack you. But if I have no other choice but to defend myself, I'll let the attacker dictate what I do. Depending on how he attacks is how I'll respond i.e. evading and strike, blend and neutrilize, strike and throw and so on.....

Just my random babble

Dan

[Jay Bell]

imo, I think that the "offense/defense" ideas are over-rated. Paying too much attention to either one creates boundries within what is happening.

If someone is attacking you and you respond in a way that sets the individual up for their downfall, would that not be offensive? I don't think in a reality sense there isn't really seperation of offense and defense. There is only responding or reacting to what is happening. That can be from 5 feet away with a pre-emptive strike or hanging back and waiting for the opponent to wrap themselves up.

[SolidTiger]

Originally posted by Yari

I havn't voted, becuase the question is absurd.

It's like asking what technique is best? It doesn't exsist.

But if YOU feel that your offensive side is stronger than your defensive side, maybe that's a indication what you should be working on, and not betting on.

/Yari

I said I had a good defense not a bad one, So bad that I have
to use offense all the time. I have a good defense, But a greater
offense.

Thank You

SolidTiger

"No one fights a perfect fight"

[Bushido]

You need both, thats it. You know, yin and yang?


-Bushido

[SolidTiger]

Originally posted by Bushido

You need both, thats it. You know, yin and yang?


-Bushido

Yes I agree you need both are you will be in a lot of pain, but
is it not possible to have one skill greater then the other?

[sweeper]

sorrey gou didn't address who I was tlaking too ;)

I was reffering to solidtiger's implication that ali danced around forman. than I started responding to the fight in genneral. that fight might not have gone the same way if ali hadn't had the ropes loosened. that was my only point :-p

and I think it is easyerto be on the offensive than on the deffensive.

[SolidTiger]

Ali had the ropes losened? It really shouldn't matter if Ali can use
the ropes Foreman can to...

Thank you

SolidTiger

[sweeper]

no you don't understand what I mean. Ali didn't fight forman in a normal fasion, he had the ropes of the ring loosened so they would absorb the force of the blows, he leaned against the ropes and let forman hit him a bunch and forman got worn out after like 5 rounds of it. It was a rather creative strategy but my point is he didn't realy out fight forman, it was more like he tricked him, or out thought him..

[SolidTiger]

It's a part of fighting isn't it, to be able to trick your opponent
into fighting your fight. If it was illegal they would not be able to
losen the ropes for ali. Yes ali was smart and he did use the
ropes to his advantage, but not only that he had the skills to
win the fight. Ali did not win by just using the ropes to take the
"POW" out of Foreman punches, he won by thinking. Foreman
did not have to punch at him, when Ali was on the rope. But
he did anyway, and thats why he lost the fight.

Thank You

SolidTiger

[Chiduce]

My system is extremely defensive. I like the part about not being there. That is excellent defense. I also see defense as a very good offensive; particularly in the legal circle. To us, defense is the best offense. Though, in the freaky extreme there is not a choice of being offensive. It develops out of the necessity of a will to live free of fatality. Sincerely, In Humility; Chiduce!

[SolidTiger]

Some people think a good offense is defense, and some people think a good offense is a good defense. Some people like to jump
in the air a lot when they fight, some like to fight on the ground.
What I'm trying to say is that everybody fights there on way, if it's defense or offense. That's why fighting is so great, there is so
many differant styles, it's kind of like all the styles cancel each other out.

Thank You

SolidTiger

[Bushido]

Originally posted by SolidTiger



Yes I agree you need both are you will be in a lot of pain, but
is it not possible to have one skill greater then the other?

By our physical nature and our character, we have a tendency to be more defensive or more offensive. That is why we must adapt our training to fill some holes in our technique.


-Bushido

[SolidTiger]

I agree that you must challange all of your weaknesses, thats the only way you can make yourself a better fighter by improving on what you are weak in.

Thank you

SolidTiger

[Bushido]

Offense is sometime a good defense. :boing1:


-Bushido

[SolidTiger]

Originally posted by Bushido

Offense is sometime a good defense. :boing1:


-Bushido

Sometimes a good offense is a good defense, it goes both
ways...

Thank You

SolidTiger

[sweeper]

well all I said was ali didn't outfight forman, I'm not saying he didn't win or he cheated, just that he didn't outfight him and there fore the example doesn't apply well to the question at hand. Also forman didn't know the ropes had been loosened, if he did know he might have changed his strategy.. I tihnk it was a particularly creative method of winning but I don't think it is realy a good example of deffence.

[Yari]

Originally posted by SolidTiger





"No one fights a perfect fight"

Because there is nothing called a perfect fight.




That's why fighting is so great, there is so
many differant styles, it's kind of like all the styles cancel each other out.


Could you explain your understanding, because I would say that they fill each other out, not cancel....

/Yari

[Bushido]

Originally posted by SolidTiger



Sometimes a good offense is a good defense, it goes both
ways...

Thank You

SolidTiger

True. Personnaly when I teach and train, it's maybe 60% defense and 40% offense. You cannot win a fight without protecting yourself, but both are important. Like I sais, they are like yin & yang. (To me, the same thing goes with striking and grappling-but that is another subject.)


-Bushido

[SolidTiger]

The yin and yang is great ancient China wisdom, it represent the opposites of life. Some use it as a fighting philosophy, On my uniform is the patch of a yin yang.

Thank you

SolidTiger