Balintwak - Basics

[Raewyn]

Hi, I dont know if I've posted in the right place but Im sure someone will move it if needed.

Im starting to learn the basics and dynamics of sticks, just really wanted to know if anybody has any tips to help me with my left hand. Im really dominant on my right side, but seem to have difficulty with doing my basics and dynamics with my left hand. Any one have any tips???
Thanks

[Rich Parsons]

Hi, I dont know if I've posted in the right place but Im sure someone will move it if needed.

Im starting to learn the basics and dynamics of sticks, just really wanted to know if anybody has any tips to help me with my left hand. Im really dominant on my right side, but seem to have difficulty with doing my basics and dynamics with my left hand. Any one have any tips???
Thanks


Is the FMA you are practicing Balintawak?

If so cool. If not then what art is it?

As to basics, I will attempt later after I get back from teaching class.

[Raewyn]

Is the FMA you are practicing Balintawak?

If so cool. If not then what art is it?

As to basics, I will attempt later after I get back from teaching class.
Yes it is Balintawak. Ive only just started learning it now.

[Rich Parsons]

Raisin,

Congratualtions on the beginning of your learning of Balintawak. :)

As the lineages are most likely different, there may be some variations, based upon who you are learning it from and if they changed anything or if their instructor(s) changed anything.

Balintawak Basics:

Proper Grip of the Cane - two fingers of punyo

Stance - oblique

Proper weight placement - the weight comes from the same side as the strike. Blocks are not weight dependant.

The Basic twelve angles of attack

Left hand or off hand basics
-- Left hand placement on the cane to monitor, manage, and delay the opponents cane. This is done with the cane in the webbing of the hand.
-- The Snake -- This is wear you snake your hand from one side of the cane to another.

An example: Hold the cane in your right hand. Place the back of your hand so the base of the hand is on the cane in front of you. Place a little pressure with the cane towards you or in other words into the back of your wrist/hand.
Rotate your hand 180 degrees so that the palm is now facing the cane. Leave your thumb across the cane as you rotate using the palm heel as the pivot point to the other side. The cane goes from being towards the left or straight up to the right. The stick should be in the webbing of your hand.

To come back now, the cane is about 45 degree angle across you. Rotate your hand on the palm heel around the cane, having your hand end up back in the webbing.

-- The Curl -- Cane in the right hand and your left hand in front of you. Stirke the cane at your hand as if you would hit the back of the hand. Your elbow should be in and it should not move much if at all through the practice. As your strike the back of your hand you rotate your hand so that it bends at the wrist (* similiar to how a lady bends her wrist for a gentlemen who greets her in the manner of the Queen's court *) Once the wrist is bent rotate your fingers so they point towards you, and then extend the hand back so it is straight with the arm. Your stick should be below your hand.

To come back you reverse the process, start with the palm facing you, bending the fingers/hand in so the fingers point towards you, rotate the hand away from you so the palm is out and then straighten your hand.

This should be done at a slow speed at first, to get the feel and timing or your cane moving in through the palce your hand just was. Your hand "Curls around" and avoids being hit.

This then leads to the Abecedario template where the instructor feeds the angles 1 through 12 in order, and the student blocks and counter strike on the same side as the block was on.

After the student becomes proficient with the Abecedario then the Seguidas is taught. This is where the instructor strikes the angles one through 12 in a random manner to mix up the strikes and for the student to block.

Then you beginning teaching some techniques, that you can integrate into the Seguidas. Technically this is Corraidas, yet I refer to it as Baby Corraidas as you are just learning how to stand or walk, as you do Seguidas and then you do the new technique and then go back to Seguidas.

I hope this helps a little.

Best regards

[Raewyn]

Hey Rich that was great!!!!!! Thanks. Ill need to enquire more in regards to exactly what lineage im learning. I do know that we have to get alot of swing from the hips.

[Rich Parsons]

Hey Rich that was great!!!!!! Thanks. Ill need to enquire more in regards to exactly what lineage im learning. I do know that we have to get alot of swing from the hips.


That is part of the weight placement, and this allows for the weight to be put into the strike. :) Remember Anciong Bacon was a very small man, yet respected for his capabilities which included his striking power. :)

[Datu Tim Hartman]

Hi, I dont know if I've posted in the right place but Im sure someone will move it if needed.

Im starting to learn the basics and dynamics of sticks, just really wanted to know if anybody has any tips to help me with my left hand. Im really dominant on my right side, but seem to have difficulty with doing my basics and dynamics with my left hand. Any one have any tips???
Thanks

What part of the Balintawak family are you from?

[Raewyn]

What part of the Balintawak family are you from?
I dont mean to sound ignorant, but I did not realise there were different families??? I would be what you call an absolute beginner and am only just learning. Im trying to look into the lineage of what it is I am learning and am reading up on alot of stuff. I think I need to ask a few more questions. Could you point me through to any threads that may help me??

[Raewyn]

Ive just found out that I am learning Balintawak Arnis and we follow Bobby Taboada.

[Rich Parsons]

I dont mean to sound ignorant, but I did not realise there were different families??? I would be what you call an absolute beginner and am only just learning. Im trying to look into the lineage of what it is I am learning and am reading up on alot of stuff. I think I need to ask a few more questions. Could you point me through to any threads that may help me??


Check this thread even though it was locked later on, there is a post in there number 7 that has a list of websites from some of those who trained in Balintawak, and may have their own organization or system now.

http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=13634&highlight=Balintawak

PS: It all come from Anciong Bacon and his training. The lineage are those who had schools or taught ot teach Balintawak.

[Datu Tim Hartman]

Ive just found out that I am learning Balintawak Arnis and we follow Bobby Taboada.

I've met Bobby a couple times. I like him, he's a good man!

[Raewyn]

I've met Bobby a couple times. I like him, he's a good man!
so I should look forward then to learning some really great stuff??

[Datu Tim Hartman]

so I should look forward then to learning some really great stuff??

I would think that you're going to have a lot of fun with the program!

[Datu Tim Hartman]

Well it's almost 12:30am and I have a kid's FMA camp to teach in the morning. Talk to you later.

[Datu Tim Hartman]

I dont mean to sound ignorant, but I did not realise there were different families???
Here is part of the family tree. There are some people missing. I will be updating the list in the near future.

[Brian R. VanCise]

Hey Tim,

Where did you get the family tree from? Did Remy
learn only from Maranga and Moncal? I was under
the impression that he also learned some from Anciong!
Am I completely mistaken in this or was it just that
Maranga and Moncal were his primary teacher's!

Brian R. VanCise

[Datu Tim Hartman]

Hey Tim,

Where did you get the family tree from? Did Remy learn only from Maranga and Moncal? I was under the impression that he also learned some from Anciong! Am I completely mistaken in this or was it just that Maranga and Moncal were his primary teacher's!

Brian R. VanCise

Manong Ted gave me a hand written copy and then I made it into a jpeg. Remy didn't start with Anciong, but he did end up with him. Remy started training with Moncal. When he could teach him no more he was then taken to Maranga, then eventually Bacon.


:asian:

[Brian R. VanCise]

Thanks Tim,

That was pretty much my understanding of the training
progression as it was told to me!

Brian R. VanCise

[Datu Tim Hartman]

Thanks Tim,

That was pretty much my understanding of the training
progression as it was told to me!

Brian R. VanCise

When I get the updated chart setup I'll send you a copy if you want one.

:asian:

[Brian R. VanCise]

Thanks Tim,

That would be great!

Brian R. VanCise

[Dan Anderson]

Rikki,

Came onto this thread late. Great basics description...so I stole it. :ultracool

Yours,
Dan

[Toasty]

Well, Rich,

I gotta say - I have nothing to add to your very excellent post.

Good Job Sir.


see ya

Rob


p.s. Tim - I dig the new avatar!

[Datu Tim Hartman]

p.s. Tim - I dig the new avatar!
Thanks!

:asian: :-partyon:

[Rich Parsons]

Rikki,

Came onto this thread late. Great basics description...so I stole it. :ultracool

Yours,
Dan


SHHHH! It is a secret ;)

Only meant for Raisin :D

[Rich Parsons]

Well, Rich,

I gotta say - I have nothing to add to your very excellent post.

Good Job Sir.


see ya

Rob


p.s. Tim - I dig the new avatar!

Thank you Rob, I try, and I am always willing to take feedback.

Thank you for the praise.

[Toasty]

Raisin,

GM Bobby Taboada has a website (with a forum for questions) that you might want to check out - if you haven't already.


www.worldbalintawak.com

Good luck with your training...

Rob

[Raewyn]

Raisin,

GM Bobby Taboada has a website (with a forum for questions) that you might want to check out - if you haven't already.


www.worldbalintawak.com

Good luck with your training...

Rob
Great, thanks for that. Ive been practising reaaly hard this week, but unfortunaltey I have to practise outside, as I got carried away with swinging my stick and smashed out the light bulb in the ceiling!!!! ooops!!

[Raewyn]

SHHHH! It is a secret ;)

Only meant for Raisin :D


I knew you'd come through for me!!!!!

[PeteNerd]

When I get the updated chart setup I'll send you a copy if you want one.

:asian:
Just wanted to say i like your chart... I was wondering if you have contact information for any of the instructors that are still in Cebu City. I've been training here but I want to meet some other instructors before I leave next month. If you can help me out that would be awesome.

Peter

[Datu Tim Hartman]

Just wanted to say i like your chart... I was wondering if you have contact information for any of the instructors that are still in Cebu City. I've been training here but I want to meet some other instructors before I leave next month. If you can help me out that would be awesome.

Peter

Not at the moment but I'm working on it.

[bart]

Hey There,

I took a lesson with GM Rodrigo Maranga, the son of GM Timor Maranga, and he is exceptional. He and his family teach in Cebu City. His contact info is here:

http://maranga.8m.com/

You may want to go and see Sergio Arcel as well. I've not had a chance to train with him, but he is well respected and of direct lineage himself to Anciong Bacon. This is his website:

http://balintawak.4t.com/index.html

I've also had a session with Master Nick Elizar and he is a great teacher of Teovel's Balintawak. His contact info is here:

http://www.visayanmartialarts.com/nickelizar.htm

Good luck in your studies.

[RedBagani]

I think a few guys are missing from the Balintawak family tree. Does anyone know where the late Jose Millan, aka Joe Go, is situated in the family tree? He was a personal student of Anciong Bacon, one of the guys who stayed with him till the end.

[bart]

I think a few guys are missing from the Balintawak family tree. Does anyone know where the late Jose Millan, aka Joe Go, is situated in the family tree? He was a personal student of Anciong Bacon, one of the guys who stayed with him till the end.

I noticed that too. Some of the more noticeable missing names are Atillo, Mongcal, Velez, Villasin, Chiuten, Arcel, etc. But Tim does admit that it's a work in progress and that he's yet to complete it and to be fair, it's going to be a lot of work to get even just all of the major players in one chart.

[Datu Tim Hartman]

I think a few guys are missing from the Balintawak family tree. Does anyone know where the late Jose Millan, aka Joe Go, is situated in the family tree? He was a personal student of Anciong Bacon, one of the guys who stayed with him till the end.

This is the list that Manong Ted gave me at my first training session. What he told me was this is a list of people who started thier own clubs. Since then I've found more of our family. "Joe Go's" people have been found in Toronto Canada. Also with Rey Galang's book it will speed up the search.

[Datu Tim Hartman]

I noticed that too. Some of the more noticeable missing names are Atillo,

This is a tough one. Where does Atillo fit in?

[Dan Anderson]

Rey Galang's boo, Warrior Arts of the Philippines, has chapters on the following balintawak players:
Anciong Bacon
Sergio Arcel
Johnny Chiuten
Nick Elizar
Timoteo Maranga
Rodrigo Maranga
Bobby Tabimina
Bobby Taboada
Teofilo Velez
Pacito Velez
Jose Villasin
John Villasin
You can get the book through bakbakan.com and it's a very good read.

Yours,
Dan Anderson

[Toasty]

Hey Bart,

Look a little closer, man... LOL

Villasin, Velez & Mongcal ARE on there.

I have been doing some research as well - where would one put Mr. Chuiten since he (for the most part) left the Villasin Balintawak group and went with Filemon Caburnay to (help) form the La Punti system...?

[Datu Tim Hartman]

FYI-

this chart was only people who formed Balintawak groups. If they didn't form a group I don't plan on adding them. There would be way to many people to list.

:asian:

[arnisador]

Yeah, you can't hope to list everyone who ever trained in the style!

[Brian R. VanCise]

Listing the heads of their own groups is a good
way to go! Otherwise there would literally be
hundreds of people to put on the tree! That
would be an very, very hard task!

Brian R. VanCise

[bart]

Hey Bart,

Look a little closer, man... LOL

Villasin, Velez & Mongcal ARE on there.

I have been doing some research as well - where would one put Mr. Chuiten since he (for the most part) left the Villasin Balintawak group and went with Filemon Caburnay to (help) form the La Punti system...?


My eyes fail me sometimes. I need to stop posting so late. :) My mistake.

[Datu Tim Hartman]

What about Ising?

[bart]

This is a tough one. Where does Atillo fit in?

The Atillos have direct lineage. Vincente Atillo was one of the founding members of Balintawak with Bacon. Ising Atillo emphasizes the lineage through Bacon and his father Vicente, to the Saavedras, but that is another issue. The claim to Balintawak is legit and they have their own group. I'd say you'd fit them in just like you did the others. Mark Mikita is currently a student of Ising's here in the US. There are others in Cebu. They could fit under the Atillo branch.

[Datu Tim Hartman]

The Atillos have direct lineage. Vincente Atillo was one of the founding members of Balintawak with Bacon. Ising Atillo emphasizes the lineage through Bacon and his father Vicente, to the Saavedras, but that is another issue. The claim to Balintawak is legit and they have their own group. I'd say you'd fit them in just like you did the others. Mark Mikita is currently a student of Ising's here in the US. There are others in Cebu. They could fit under the Atillo branch.

Are you saying that Vincente was a student of Bacon and Ising a student of Vincente?

[bart]

Tim,

I believe that Ising was really young at the time Balintawak was created, maybe early teens. From what I have heard him and others say, he did train with Bacon. In what capacity compared to with his father? I don't know. It would probably be safe to list him under his father, but it could go either way.

[Raewyn]

Toasty supplied me with a link to balintawakworld.com which is a really good site (thanks again for that toasty). Ive asked my instructor for some video clips in regards to the 12 basics and the 12 dynamics but seems to be taking his time in getting me these. Does anyone know if these are on the internet somewhere???? or if not where else I could get them???

[taong tahimik]

Actually, I'm working on an interactive 12 basic strikes of Balintawak
check it out here:
http://www.vacmartialarts.com/balintawak_basics.html
Requires Flash plug-in for your browser

[Dan Anderson]

Just checked it out. VERY nicely done!

Yours,
Dan Anderson

[James Miller]

Actually, I'm working on an interactive 12 basic strikes of Balintawak
check it out here:
http://www.vacmartialarts.com/balintawak_basics.html
Requires Flash plug-in for your browser

Very nice! Tell Guro Robert that Tim Hartman says hello. He told me that he was going to try to visit him soon.

[Raewyn]

Actually, I'm working on an interactive 12 basic strikes of Balintawak
check it out here:
http://www.vacmartialarts.com/balintawak_basics.html
Requires Flash plug-in for your browser
Very good, thanks for that. :)

[Ceicei]

Actually, I'm working on an interactive 12 basic strikes of Balintawak
check it out here:
http://www.vacmartialarts.com/balintawak_basics.html
Requires Flash plug-in for your browser
Oh! I love this!!! Thank you so much for doing that! The interactive flash is a great tool.

- Ceicei

[arnisador]

That's great! Thanks!

[Brian R. VanCise]

That's pretty cool! I like the site as well
as the animation!

Brian R. VanCise
www.instinctiveresponsetraining.com (http://www.instinctiveresponsetraining.com)

[teovel'sBalintawak]

This is the list that Manong Ted gave me at my first training session. What he told me was this is a list of people who started thier own clubs. Since then I've found more of our family. "Joe Go's" people have been found in Toronto Canada. Also with Rey Galang's book it will speed up the search.

The guy I know in Toronto Canada is Robert Cinco he is one of Joe Go's student who is now teaching Tat Kun Tou. Tat Kun Tou is the empty hand version of balintawak mix with kung fu. Joe Go was one of Bacon's elite student but was a low profile type. Only few even know how good he was and where was he rank history. I have the opportunity to train with him in late 1990 and early 1991 before he died in june of that year. He was teaching his own version of stick fighting named PALAKABANATE still a Balintawak based.

[teovel'sBalintawak]

I think a few guys are missing from the Balintawak family tree. Does anyone know where the late Jose Millan, aka Joe Go, is situated in the family tree? He was a personal student of Anciong Bacon, one of the guys who stayed with him till the end.

I know some names who were in Joe Go's generation like Jose Villasin,Ted Buot , Teofilo Velez and Tinong Ybanez. Those who were ahead considered as the first generation were the likes of Delfin Lopez, Timor Maranga,Edwardo Baculi,Vicente Atillo and Arnulfo Moncal . Joe Go was a Balintawak low profile name only few know who and how good he was. You can ask Manong Ted Buot one of his very close friend he can tell you more about Joe Go.

[taong tahimik]

A sample of Robert's practice from his Toronto school. While his lineage is primarily from JoGo, Robert also trained with Sergio Arcel and Ramon "Monie" Valez of the Teovel's group.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bIx07nluRnw

[Brian R. VanCise]

A sample of Robert's practice from his Toronto school. While his lineage is primarily from JoGo, Robert also trained with Sergio Arcel and Ramon "Monie" Valez of the Teovel's group.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bIx07nluRnw


Thanks for the clip.