Mental illness and TKD

[ave_turuta]

Dear all,

I am preparing to write an essay for my next TKD test, and I have thought of tackling the topic of mental illness and the martial arts, especifically TKD. Very briefly, I am trying to argue that the martial arts, because of the combination of physical and mental training, can become a very powerful tool in the treatment of the so-called "mental illneses" that affect 1 in 4 Americans today, instead of artificial drugs and the reductionist and limited approach to the notion of illness promoted by Western medicine.

My question is: is anyone aware of any clinical studies that have been done in this respect? I am also interested in knowing whether this topic has been addressed at an official level by TKD officials (meaning, are there any initiatives being undertaken to promote awareness?)

Thanks a lot!
A.T.

[Han-Mi]

I don't have anything specific for you myself... but maybe I can help you be more specific. Are you meaning any type of psychological type "disease", such as depressison, or just things that affect the growth of mental thought process. I assume with the 1 in 4 status you mean any type of "psychological disease". I know there have been studies that include the affect of physical activity on the mind and mood, as well as the reinforcement of confidence through improvement. Again, I know the info is out there, but I haven't anything specific

[TX_BB]

Try the USA Taekwondo office they maybe able to point you in the right direction (719) 866-4632.

Good Luck and keep us informed

[Marginal]

Dear all,

I am preparing to write an essay for my next TKD test, and I have thought of tackling the topic of mental illness and the martial arts, especifically TKD. Very briefly, I am trying to argue that the martial arts, because of the combination of physical and mental training, can become a very powerful tool in the treatment of the so-called "mental illneses" that affect 1 in 4 Americans today, instead of artificial drugs and the reductionist and limited approach to the notion of illness promoted by Western medicine.


Nope. Doing a few forms does not cure or in any way treat clinical depression. TKD is not scientology.

(Incidently, Low self-esteem's not a mental illness.)

[theletch1]

1 in 4!? I have to wonder if that number doesn't reflect the "it's not my fault" mindset that seems to be overtaking american society. "I couldn't help myself. I have a mental disorder." has always seemed to be a big cop out to me...but that's a whole different thread. I can only think that MA would assist in the development of concentration for things along the lines of ADD or ADHD. I know that we have several members on the board that do indeed suffer from both of these ailments. Good luck in your report. I'd be very interested to see the finished product.

[Shu2jack]

I do not think TKD can cure any mental or physical condition, but I think TKD (or any traditional art/healthy activity) can help give a person a healthier/happier quality of life through coordination, increased physical fitness, balance, and something to help give them focus in their life.

[Marginal]

Just for the sake of fairness:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=15344428&query_hl=1

It's Tai Chi, but it does apparently make people feel better about themselves. (Wish they'd done a comparison between other physical activities.)

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=7762694&query_hl=1

On topic but not too helpful. MA's can give rise to issues which are then psychoanalyzed...

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=3155357&query_hl=1

In other words, positive effects are suspected, but nothing has been proven.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=1883753&query_hl=7

Is it the training, or the philosophies that they sneak into your brain?

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=12395145&query_hl=7

Ah. There's that parrallel with other physical activities that I wanted to see in the Tai Chi abstract...

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=12081264&query_hl=7

Interesting. TKD and Karate bear many similarities. Karate didn't "cure" aggressiveness.

Dig around www.pubmed.com, there's a lot there. From just poking around, I don't see a lot that supports TKD healing much more than self-confidence issues, and even that's probably a side effect of physical activity over any great mental training.

[Blindside]

I have seen an abstract from a sports medicine journal that found that Olympic style TKD competitors face a concussion rate on par with US college football. To continue an unfortunate logical chain, repeated concussion and some suggestion of mild head injuries has been linked as a cause of depression. There has been suggestions of mutliple concussions being linked to Alzheimers but a recent paper found no conclusive link.

So I guess, I am suggesting that the medical literature can be followed to suggest that some TKD CAUSES mental illness.

heh,

oops.

Lamont

[arnisador]

You might look at studies which discuss the effects of exercise more generally. I can't believe there's much that's TKD-specific!

Be wary of overdrawn conclusions!

[Marginal]

I have seen an abstract from a sports medicine journal that found that Olympic style TKD competitors face a concussion rate on par with US college football. To continue an unfortunate logical chain, repeated concussion and some suggestion of mild head injuries has been linked as a cause of depression.
Even worse, so does losing. As taking multiple kicks to the noggin would imply. ;)

[Shu2jack]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blindside
I have seen an abstract from a sports medicine journal that found that Olympic style TKD competitors face a concussion rate on par with US college football. To continue an unfortunate logical chain, repeated concussion and some suggestion of mild head injuries has been linked as a cause of depression.


Even worse, so does losing. As taking multiple kicks to the noggin would imply. ;)


Did we just link getting your ass consistantly kicked to depression? I could've told you guys that. :p

[ave_turuta]

1 in 4!? I have to wonder if that number doesn't reflect the "it's not my fault" mindset that seems to be overtaking american society. "I couldn't help myself. I have a mental disorder." has always seemed to be a big cop out to me...but that's a whole different thread. I can only think that MA would assist in the development of concentration for things along the lines of ADD or ADHD. I know that we have several members on the board that do indeed suffer from both of these ailments. Good luck in your report. I'd be very interested to see the finished product.
Thank you for your kind and considerate response. First, I must add that this is a very short essay; secondly, I find some of the answers to be way off line given the nature and tone of my question. But, regardless. I did some research over the weekend and found that indeed several studies have been carried out by psychotherapists, for instance, that point to the health benefits of practicing martial arts in general for people with illneses as varied as MS, depression, etc.

Another point I am trying to make is analyzing this topic from a different understanding of what illness and the healing process mean in our culture. I agree: 1 in 4 Americans is said to suffer from a "mental illness." The problem is, the definition of "mental illness" according to the mainstream medical establisment keeps widening in part becuase of gigantic economic interests. Nowadays, kids are being administered dangerous drugs for things like ADD, when perhaps their "mental" problem could be easily solved by understanding that ADD may not be solved with drugs, but with the practice of a martial discipline that brings focus, attention, respect, etc. etc. to the individual.

About depression: depression is not a psychological illness. Currently, the medical establishment believes that depression is caused in most cases by a chemical imbalance in the brain mainly due to the absence of a substance called "serotonin." While I do not dispute these findings, my argument is: even if depression has a biological origin, will the administration of drugs suffice to "cure" the illness? Here is where I think a different phlosophy of healing based on a less invasive and more humane approach to human health and well being could be useful (and please, save yourselves the trouble of going to the extreme of sarcasm with references to Scientology, as I am a proud and out atheist and thus do not believe in any mythological narrative espoused by anyone who claims to hold the Truth and nothing but the Truth).

What can the martial arts offer in this regard? There are numerous scientific studies that have already established a clear connection between exercise (any type) and the relieving of depression (when exercising, apparently, the brain produces more serotonin which in turns makes you "feel good"). I do believe, however, that the martial arts can offer additional benefits, particularly on the preventive side. My essay takes into consideration two aspects of the relationship between mental illness and the martial arts: the physical/psychological aspect (that is, can the martial arts help in the healing process of what we know as a mental illness?); and secondly, the preventive aspect. This means, for instance, realizing what we as martial artists can do in order to reduce the impact of mental illness in our society. Several studies have for instance found a direct correlation between poverty and violent environments and mental illness: you are more likely to develop a mental illness if you live in poor and unsafe environments than if you life in the opposite. The martial artist, thus, has two options: to see her/his knowledge as a private acquisition not to be shared with anyone, or to be guided by the principles that inspire the art of making the world a little better. Establishing martial arts programs in economically depressed areas, for instance, perhaps on a voluntary basis, could offer alternatives to children who grow up surronded with unsurmountable amounts of violence. Some studies have confirmed that enrollment in martial arts programs resulted in a reduction inthe level of violence and risk factors amongst high school youth.

My approach to the topic of "mental illness" is just more than the pop-a-pill approach or the "let the crazies solve their issues" approach that this individualistic society promotes. I honestly thought I would find more open minds here. Sad to see it is not the case. I'll be glad to share my essay with whoever requests it, after friday.

Sincerely,
A.T.

[ave_turuta]

Did we just link getting your ass consistantly kicked to depression? I could've told you guys that. :p
Deppression is a crippling disease, not just a mood disorder, that is not synonimous with "oh i feel like crap today." It is a serious illness that, in its extreme form, frequently leads to suicide attempts and eventually death. Not funny.

[ave_turuta]

You might look at studies which discuss the effects of exercise more generally. I can't believe there's much that's TKD-specific!

Be wary of overdrawn conclusions!
Thanks! I actually found a couple of studies that specifically referred to TKD and Aikido (these were clinical studies). I can share them with you if you'd like to.

Cheers,
A.T.

[ave_turuta]

I do not think TKD can cure any mental or physical condition, but I think TKD (or any traditional art/healthy activity) can help give a person a healthier/happier quality of life through coordination, increased physical fitness, balance, and something to help give them focus in their life.
thanks for your response!

[The Kai]

Any Martial Arts training can never replace the advice of a professional.

[theletch1]

Thanks! I actually found a couple of studies that specifically referred to TKD and Aikido (these were clinical studies). I can share them with you if you'd like to.

Cheers,
A.T.
As an aikido-ka I'd be very interested in seeing these clinical studies. Please share the links with us. :asian:

[arnisador]

I actually found a couple of studies that specifically referred to TKD and Aikido (these were clinical studies).
Clinicial studies! I'd be curious to see the citations if it's no trouble. I may have the college's library request copies for me since it's so easy to do!

[The Kai]

I'm guessing, that much like the NAPMA assertion that MA traininh helps a kids grades' it will all be ancedotal quoates

[Marginal]

Another point I am trying to make is analyzing this topic from a different understanding of what illness and the healing process mean in our culture. I agree: 1 in 4 Americans is said to suffer from a "mental illness."

To be honest, I've seen this statistic bandied about, but I've never seen it attached to a source, or seen it given any kind of a useful context. It's usually just used as a rallying cry vs evil western medicine.


Nowadays, kids are being administered dangerous drugs for things like ADD,

Is Ritalin dangerous? Over perscribed yes, but what health problems does it introduce?


About depression: depression is not a psychological illness.It's in the DSM. I can see why changing the definition of mental illness around so that actual mental disorders don't count would be both attractive and convienent to your argument, but in thas case, it's not a matter of perspective. It is a recognized mental disorder. It's not like a brain tumor. (Something with is not considerd a mental disorder.)


Currently, the medical establishment believes that depression is caused in most cases by a chemical imbalance in the brain mainly due to the absence of a substance called "serotonin." While I do not dispute these findings, my argument is: even if depression has a biological origin, will the administration of drugs suffice to "cure" the illness?Depression cannot be cured. It can only be controlled. I've witnessed the effects of clinical depression firsthand, and this isn't something that's corrected with a little exercise and some paramillitaristic rules.


Here is where I think a different phlosophy of healing based on a less invasive and more humane approach to human health and well being could be usefulYou mean things like, psychotherapy?


(and please, save yourselves the trouble of going to the extreme of sarcasm with references to Scientology, as I am a proud and out atheist and thus do not believe in any mythological narrative espoused by anyone who claims to hold the Truth and nothing but the Truth). Then I won't point out the contradiction with that statement and the apparent wholesale endorsement and support of/for eastern mysticism.


My approach to the topic of "mental illness" is just more than the pop-a-pill approach or the "let the crazies solve their issues" approach that this individualistic society promotes. That's not really an accurate description of what the phychological community typically tends to advocate.

[ave_turuta]

To be honest, I've seen this statistic bandied about, but I've never seen it attached to a source, or seen it given any kind of a useful context. It's usually just used as a rallying cry vs evil western medicine.



Is Ritalin dangerous? Over perscribed yes, but what health problems does it introduce?

It's in the DSM. I can see why changing the definition of mental illness around so that actual mental disorders don't count would be both attractive and convienent to your argument, but in thas case, it's not a matter of perspective. It is a recognized mental disorder. It's not like a brain tumor. (Something with is not considerd a mental disorder.)

Depression cannot be cured. It can only be controlled. I've witnessed the effects of clinical depression firsthand, and this isn't something that's corrected with a little exercise and some paramillitaristic rules.

You mean things like, psychotherapy?

Then I won't point out the contradiction with that statement and the apparent wholesale endorsement and support of/for eastern mysticism.

That's not really an accurate description of what the phychological community typically tends to advocate. 1. THe statistic was recently published in a piece in the Washington Post. I can look up the reference if needed. I agree wholeheartedly that the inclusion of more and more disorders under the "mental illness" label is very disturbing and responds to particular interests of the medical/pharmaceutical industry complex with which I entirely disagree, but that is a different matter.

2. With regards to the dangers posed by antidepressants to youth, the news have been filled with stories recently about the FDA probing into the safety of these drugs for kids (not just those with ADD, but also with other illnesses). Again, can look refs. up if needed (little time now).

3. About depression or the convenience/inconvenience to my argument: either I do not explain myself clearly (obviously that seems to be the case) or you are not willing to read what I am actually writing. In my previous post I made reference to both the more physiological as well as the preventive side of my argument. Medical: doing exercise has been documented to have a positive effect on patients with depression. What I am arguing is: there is room for seeing (possibly through more clinical trials) whether people diagnosed with bipolar, for instance, do better practicing some type of martial art than those who do not). That's why I am writing a TKD essay for my test, not a Ph.D. dissertation or an article in American Scientist! (gosh it's not like I am going to reinvent the wheel!) There is room, I argue, to explore within the medical profession alternative routes to the simple administration of drugs as the only way of bringing depression of other MI under control. Yes, that includes psychotherapy, but as someone who has witnessed this firsthand (yes, me too) I am all too aware of the limitations of both medication and psychotherapy. There are deeper issues associated with the development of mental illness that the medical establishment very often discards or undervalues: a profession so linked to pharmaceutical interests, for instance, has a surprisingly low interest in discussing the effects of poverty in the development of mental illness, and in a country with so many people uninsured and underinsured, acquiring the proper medical care of you suffer from this type of ailment can be an impossible task (our insurance for instance only covers 90% of the first 5 visits to the therapist: after that, you're on your own and quite frankly, we don't have the money, so no therapy for anyone).

There are other, non-biological reasons why people may see their conditions exacerbated (poverty, stress, financial burdens, etc.) This is where the preventive aspect I was talking about can come in: I do sincerely believe the martial arts can provide a fantastic opportunity to become integrated into programs of mental health nationwide, both amongst and kids, and provide considerable relief to many people. Why the martial arts? Because (a) for the most part, they don't require a lot of special or expensive equipment at least at the level I am talkign about; (b) they can be practiced almost anywhere. Why not explore the possibilities of integrating the martial arts into these treatments? If we don't try, how do we know whether it works or not?

Finally: if my initial comment seemed as a blind endorsement of "Eastern mysticism," then I can only say I explain myself really badly. I am a secular humanist and an atheist. I don't "buy" into things because they are fancy or marketeable, and I certainly do not suscribe to the irrational beliefs espoused by the new-age proponents of very fanciful (and expensive!) "Eastern philosophies" that try to find a solution to the extreme emptiness and rigged individualism of Starbucks America today. However, I do think that in the past decade there have been interesting attempts at reconciling some of the principles of Western medicine and TCM (Traditional Chinese Medicine) that are resulting in an increasing awareness amongst practitioners of both disciplines of the benefits that the other tradition can have for their own. That, nothing else, is what I was talking about. If a particular practice brings certain benefits (for instance, accupuncture: this I know because I have tried it and in my case it brought significant relief to my ailment), then its integration into our healing practices should be considered, not out of a sense of rejection of "the West" in favor of a mystified "East" but out of common sense. If accupunture works better than a drug for certain people (and as I said, it does in my case) why shoudl I be forced by my insurance company to take the drug and dismiss an alternative treatment that is more beneficial and less invasive? As for this not being the approach that the medical profession takes towards mental illness, I don´t know what your experience has been. Unfortunately, my own experience has taught me to look at anyone who claims to have authority over my brain or the brain of others by virtue of having a medical degree with suspicion: I have found more careless practitioners who lack any type of compassion towards their patients and just care about the sweet bucks they're making from us than the opposite. But hey, maybe it's just been our luck!

As someone who has seen a lot of suffering caused by mental illness in her loved ones, I don't think the medical establishments has all the answers. Whatever alternative emerges that can complement the existing treatments and therapies, including alternative medical practices and/or the integration of specific martial arts such as Tai Chi or other arts into a holistic kind of treatment, will be welcome on my part. And if we as MAs can do something to help professionals in the medical profession to devise new treatments that alleviate people's suffering, then I don't see where the problem is. I guess my final point is: if a particular practice (whether a particular treatment, or the practice of a particular discipline) can in some way improve the quality of life of people diagnosed with mental illness, I think the topic deserves, at least, some examination. Unfortunately, the very reductionist and money-driven approach of the medical profession in this country makes it very difficult for any non-drug based or psychotherapy based complement to treatment to being included in the healing process: if it doesn't bring them any money, why include it?? In any case, thank you for engaging me :-)

Respectfully,
AT

[ave_turuta]

Any Martial Arts training can never replace the advice of a professional.
Please re-read my message. Who is talking about "replacing" anything?

Thanks.

[ave_turuta]

Clinicial studies! I'd be curious to see the citations if it's no trouble. I may have the college's library request copies for me since it's so easy to do!
These are some of the studies I have foundI can try to dig up the rest (again little time today). You can probably obtain them through your library´s ILL service.

M. Weiser et al. “Psychotherapeutic aspects of the martial arts,” in American Journal of Psychotherapy 49:1 (1995): 118-127.

C. Husted et al. “Improving quality of life for people with chronic conditions: the example of T’ai chi and multiple sclerosis,” in Alternative Therapy Health Medicine 5:5 (1999): 70-74.

FC Seitz et al. “The martial arts and mental health: the challenge of managing energy,” in Percept Mot Skills 70:2 (1990):459-64


G. Zivin et al. “An effective approach to violent prevention: traditional martial arts in middle school,” in Adolescence 36: 143 (2001): 443-59.

[ave_turuta]

I'm guessing, that much like the NAPMA assertion that MA traininh helps a kids grades' it will all be ancedotal quoates
Perhaps you are guessing wrong.

[arnisador]

Cool. I'll check those out!

[Marginal]

1. THe statistic was recently published in a piece in the Washington Post.

2. With regards to the dangers posed by antidepressants to youth.

3. About depression or the convenience/inconvenience to my argument: either I do not explain myself clearly (obviously that seems to be the case) or you are not willing to read what I am actually writing.

4. As someone who has seen a lot of suffering caused by mental illness in her loved ones, I don't think the medical establishments has all the answers. Whatever alternative emerges that can complement the existing treatments and therapies, including alternative medical practices and/or the integration of specific martial arts such as Tai Chi or other arts into a holistic kind of treatment, will be welcome on my part.

1. I would like to see the source of that. (Not because I think you're wrong or anything, I'm just curious what the stat actually means.) I think the stat could actually be useful in a sense. If 1 in 4 actually do have a mental illness and not just a bunch of neruosies, perhaps it'll help null the longstanding stigmas attached to people suffering from real mental illnesses. (Like clinical depression.) IMO, there's a nasty polarization going on here. If it comes down to people just exercising and they're no longer mentall ill,or "snapping out of it" then the longstanding stigma which stems largely from the perception that mental illness is self-inflicted is then validated.

2. True. Still, I get a sense of tossing the baby out with the bathwater. Antidepressants actually help a great number of people for example.

3. Well, you did say that it wasn't a psychological illness. Would imply that depression's not covered in the 1 in 4 stat then, which doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

4. I've been in the same place. The drugs definitely do help a lot from what I've seen. (At least in the case of people who have been properly diagnosed.) The counciling, exercise etc doesn't accomplish nearly as much. They may compliment such treatment, but it doesn't replace it.

[Yeti]

There is a kid who, with his father, comes to group class fairly regularly. I'm definitely not an expert, but from what I know of it, the child has a pretty bad case of ADHD (I have two nephews who have been diagnosed with ADHD so I do know something about it and how it manifests itself).

I can say that having him in a group class is very distracting. He constantly talks to himself, can't follow directions and frequently does his own thing (which can be very dangerous).

I've only been seeing him in class since April when I joined this school, so I can't comment on how far he's progressed from when he first started TKD to now, but I haven't seen much improvement at all in the 4 months I've trained with him.

So, to answer your original question, I think that any martial art could be a very good thing for people who suffer from ADD / ADHD, but I don't think it could always serve as a substitute "treatment" for the disease. I would think it would depend on the severity of the case at hand.

Just my $0.02 FWIW.

[Han-Mi]

ADHD is not that much of a hinderance to MA training.... give them the same rules as everyone else and they fall in linf eventually, that has been my experience. Make sure they are pushin when they do something they shouldn't be and make sure you say their name a little more often.

Anyway, I've always been a "pull yourself up by you bootstraps" sorta mind set. Never put much stock in the excessive classification of mental disorders myself, But I can understand needing someone to talk to(therapist) or not feling great when there isn't anyone there to talk you up. To each there own I suppose.

[Marginal]

Just to be clear on this.

Someone who is upset because for example, their mother died isn't mentally ill. They may benefit from counciling, but they're not being treated for a mental illness.

Stuff like that is bootstraps kinda stuff.

Many mental disorders that require drug intervention do not fall into this realm. (Like post-pardum depression for the sake of another example.)