when your sword is in the scabbard, should the blade be facing up or down? and same question applies when drawing it and putting in back. i have been getting mixed answers from people i have talked to.

if we're talking about a Japanese katana then the sword should curve down and the sharp edge should face up, unless its worn as a horse riding style in which case it is worn the same as a western sword would be.
When drawn and replaced, it depends on the style of aido or aijitsu, some twist the sword 90 degrees, to draw and sheath the sword, other styles draw as is. Im sure there are many more ways but thats the methods Ive been taught.

you know i tried to say something similar and it came out....well twist 90 degrees when drawing the blade is what i meant, i am not sure i said it though.

thanks ...art is simplicity

Respectfully,
Marlon

In the JSA I practice, the sword is worn on the left side, the sharp side of the blade facing up.

Are you asking because you're just curious or are you asking because you want to do some sword work on your own? If the later is the case then I strongly suggest finding (good luck) a qualified iado or iajutsu instructor to get the full impact of doing sword work. Others have already answered your original question better than I could but I just thought I'd throw my two cents worth in there. :asian:

In the JSA I practice, the sword is worn on the left side, the sharp side of the blade facing up.
That's how it was when I studied iaido. Sometimes we'd twist it 90 degrees before drawing it. One technique twisted it 180 degrees first.

our art doesnt really included the katana. but my instructor learned a form with it, and was teaching me. my instructor had it turn in 90 degrees from the sharp side being down. but i thought it was sharp side up. i was looking for more of a definate answer, but it looks like it varies between styles and techniques.

I use a straight blade which when worn on my back is drawn over my right shoulder.

:rolleyes:

Just kidding...some common draws involve turning the saya from the edge up position and noto can be done that way as well as in the blade up position.

Returning the katana to your back is fun to practice too... :rolleyes: ok, just kidding again...

You might want to check around for some schools in your area. It varies with style.

That's how it was when I studied iaido. Sometimes we'd twist it 90 degrees before drawing it. One technique twisted it 180 degrees first.

Me too...although I was a big fan of the 90 degree and 180 degree draw...

Paul

If it's Buke Zukuri mount (thrust in the obi) it is worn edge up.

Drawing can be made with edge up or down. But few ryu teach drawing with the edge down. Edge down style is usually older iaijutsu waza and is practical for longer weapons that could be in a tachi mount.

To do noto (replace the blade) it's done with the edge up so the inside of the saya is not damaged. But what one has to bear in mind is that noto is not necessary and has been turned into a very theatrical movement. Years ago one would retreat to a safe distance clean the blade at ones leisure and replace it.

For standard draws, the sword's edge should be pointing up. This seems to be the more natural "fit" when

The only time I've had the edge pointing downwards, is when performing a reverse grip draw that cuts upwards as well.

The only time I've had the edge pointing downwards, is when performing a reverse grip draw that cuts upwards as well.
Yup, that's the one I was thinking of, from the standard iaido set.

Yup, that's the one I was thinking of, from the standard iaido set.

What's "standard iaido set". Some of us do practice classical ryu as well as having done seitei then MJER etc for some years.

What better way than cut up between someones legs or under the arms as a primary draw. Although Battojutsu is usually done with weapon already drawn. Military blades were worn in a slung fashion.

I think an open mind should be kept towards the fact that we dont all sit in seiza doing "Mae".

http://www.rapidjournal.com/index.htm

What's "standard iaido set". Some of us do practice classical ryu as well as having done seitei[/url]
I was referring to the standard techniques of [url=http://www.kendo-world.com/forum/printthread.php?t=4511]seitei (http://www.rapidjournal.com/index.htm) iaido.

I think Hyaku was just avoiding gross over generalisations.

There are a lot of ryuha that do some basic kata that has the same gist as the ZENKENREN's Seitei iai, but are done slightly differently.

But then again there are other ryuha that don't use that pattern as Hyaku has said. I know that Shojitsu Kataichi Kenri-ryu don't use it and neither does Kage-ryu.

You can't really pin down ryuha or categorize them since they all have their own individualistic rituals & characteristics.

Oh yes, I know that there are lots of traditional styles out there that either do not use, or at least do not emphasize, the ZNKR stndardized forms. But, most people who are familiar with iaido (battojutsu, etc.) will know what they are.

I suspect that it is true, that many, if not maybe most, non-ZNKR iaidoka would know what the Seitei Iai kata are, but most of us wouldn't be able to tell you what they look like.

My apologies for being a little abrupt.

Thirty years ago in Europe five made up kata designed for ZNKR was all you could get. Even today it still holds a dominant place. At that time I remember asking Japanese teachers, "Is there anything around that resembles something more along classical lines". But no one had seen much and really had no interest. They were happy with the Sogo (community) Budo and the, by the manual set of kata and a dan grading system. Sitting in seiza and doing something that identified with post war educational sword values is fine with some.

Then you have another set of values that identifies and deals with the atrocious, horrific injuries inflicted by a weapon. That tell us to pick it up and learn occasionaly but apart from that put it away somewhere and only use it if your life, family or country is attacked.

The question, having the blade up or down can be a bit more complicated than a simple draw. If some people have read some threads on other forums, the present attitudes towards tameshigiri and a good upward draw to cut kiriage are not too popular in some associations. But nevertheless it alive and well for a lot of people. Some prefectures have quite a large population of battojutsu. Hence the prime importance of learning the heart before you even pick one up.

All in all and make no mistake whichever way you draw, Yasukuni Shrine is the pilgramage that Budoka want to make if they are in Tokyo.

When I studied ken-jutsu with the Bujinkan the majority of the sword drawing was done with the blade up, unless we were trying to be sneaky......then there were times when we would rotate the blade. Play with both methods and see what you like better....Good luck

For Muso Jikiden Eishin Ryu the saya (scabbard) turns at whichever angle the sword will make it's cut when drawing. Like if I am going to cut across, the edge will be turned 90 degrees by the saya prior to the actual cut.

For Nami Ryu, the saya does not turn at all, that once the kissaki (tip) is out clear from the saya being pulled off the blade, then the blade can be turned independantly at whichever desired angle to cut at.

Walter, keep in mind that the way you and Nguyen-sensei practice MJER is not necessarily quite the same as everyone else. I don't rotate my saya at all during the second draw in Yaegaki. I don't rotate all the way to 90 degrees before the first cut in Mae either. I'm not saying that what you guys are doing is wrong, but it's different from what others in the style are doing, even within our branch there are variances on this sort of thing.

Oh no, I didn't mean that we turn all the way to 90 for the nukitsuke from Mae and etc. We don't turn the saya that much before the cut. We're turning the saya as we draw and by the time the kissaki's out to cut horizontally, then the saya finishes turning to 90 degrees at the sametime. I meant more like that. I wasn't thinking. This stuff is hard to translate in text. When I come to Embukai, you'll see how Nguyen Sensei is teaching me to do it. I've been told I look identical to Nguyen Sensei when doing waza. But I'm sure I'm not nearly as good as him still cause he is a far better Iaidoka than me. And yeah, we don't turn the saya at all in Yaegaki either on the draw low block part.

So there's some turning of the saya and no turn of the saya for our Eishin Ryu as well depending on the waza up here in Boston. I have a feeling we are doing it very closely identical even in minute details as you are. The last time you saw Nguyen Sensei was before he had the corrections in Japan which he went to last summer for a few weeks. When you see him practice again you may see some changes and I think it will be close to how you're doing it in Texas. But we'll see when we meet. We are doing the same seitokai. If there's any differences between our seitokai, it's probably alot smaller than you might think.

In Nami Ryu, the saya never turns regardless of the waza or kata.

Well the Embukai is the place to learn for sure. Hope to see you down next year. Nguyen-sensei was definitely missed. I think you'll be amazed actually at just how much variation really does exist within the Seitokai branch of MJER, but perhaps we are more similar than I suspect. I suspect our Iai in Denton is much closer to yours than say, ours is with Stanley-sensei or perhaps Meeker-sensei.

I hope I can make it to the next Embukai as well. We'll see how your Mae and etc. looks to mine. Most likely better than mine but regardless I admittedly am curious of the technical differences of your seitokai and mine.

Charles, I was talking to Nguyen Sensei last night after class about Iaido done at your place. He did tell me that you guys do it different than we do as well. He said the differences are very small but still different.
Perhaps we in Boston Iaido will not be exactly the same as The Dojo of Denton TX. Just identical with subtle differences.

Anyways, will be fun to get together and see the differences.

I'm curious to see your Swordstore Steel Iaito That Cuts model as well.

Yeah we should be pretty similar. Yamashita-sensei, who was my instructor's instructor, and Esaka-sensei were both students of Fukui-sensei. The differences between us may stem from Tanida-sensei's studies with Ikeda-soke.

The more pronounced variations you'll see at the Embukai, will come from Huff-sensei, Irey-sensei, Meeker-sensei, and hopefully this year Stanley-sensei. They come from different lines in different areas of Japan. There are some pronounced regional differences. All good stuff. Slightly different bunkai and such. Hard to explain.

am new to the sword so I would like to know, if by twisting before drawing the weapon would that result in a telegraphing motion. Do all styles twist?

Twist what? The sword? The body? A chicken?

I suspect you mean a slight turn of the hips in order to make the draw a little easier. The answer is no, not all styles will do this. Some make use of a shorter sword to avoid the need. Others have different ways of doing it with the same length sword.

Back to answer your question, the little turn of the hips I'm talking about isn't likely to telegraph as it is only done at the very last moment in the draw when only the last inch or two is still in the saya. By then the sword is almost completely drawn. I suspect your enemy knows you've got something going on by then ;) Of course by that point your cut is just beginning and that doesn't leave your opponent much time to react.

I was refering to the sword holder (saya?), when u grasp and do the 90 degree twist then draw the blade.

Well I don't. Not like that anyway. It's drawn more or less blade upright with a bit of twist at the very tail end of the draw when the cut actually starts. It is done that way specifically not to telegraph. Even then, I usually don't rotate the blade much past 45 degrees until after the kissaki is free. Kinda depends on the waza and situation. There are certainly situations where more rotation is necessary.