Throws, Locks, Chokes

[Kempojujutsu]

Just intrested at what level do you guys & gals in EPAK start to teach Throws, Locks, Chokes. Are these what you call the extentsion of the technique, or does this make technique A now Technique B, when you do throw, lock, choke.
Bob :asian:

[satans.barber]

Throws - very little.

I used to do Judo so mine are quite good, but there aren't many in our style on their own, just a few in the techniques. Certainly the standard of most people's at our club is quite poor (IMO).

Locks - lots

There are lots in the techniques that we develop in different ways, but Phil also teaches control and restraint work to door men, so we often do lots of nifty locks at the seminars (nasty goose-necks and such like :)

Chokes - again, very little

There's a couple in the attacks, but in terms of defense I think I've only been shown a few in my time in kenpo, although once again I know a fair few from the Judo.

Ian.

[Kempojujutsu]

At what belt level / rank do the locks, any throws or chokes occur at. In are system we start some throws and locks at purple belt Intermediated level). Chokes happen around green belt (advance level).
Bob:asian:

[satans.barber]

Originally posted by Kempojujutsu

At what belt level / rank do the locks, any throws or chokes occur at. In are system we start some throws and locks at purple belt Intermediated level). Chokes happen around green belt (advance level).
Bob:asian:

Hrmm, first throw is at orange belt, then again at purple belt and scattered around the higher belts.

Locks start at orange belt too, and then right the way through.

Basically it all comes in after yellow belt, which for us just has 4 techniqes which teach basic principles, we don't hold anything back from lower belts.

Also if lower belts see higher belts doing something they want to learn and they ask us, we're happy to show them. There's none of this 'you can't do that until you're a green belt' business!

Ian.

[Kempojujutsu]

I usually don't hold nothing back from beginners. For a throw we may start with the breakfall first before we move to the throw it's self. We may work a white belt technique and everyone will work it. The advance students can add to the technique, while beginners work on the base technique. We may also work advance technique again the beginners will work the base technique while the advance students work advance movements for the technique.
Bob :asian:

[jfarnsworth]

In our class we start at about orange belt depending on the individual. What we try to do is actually simulate the attack. If the attack for Locking Horns calls for a front right arm headlock then we teach and practice the perspective of the attacker. Sink in the headlock and/or choke about 5 -10 times then start speeding up the attack and the defense.
Jason Farnsworth

[Kempojujutsu]

When I talk about chokes I mean an offensive technique, not defending against a choke.
Bob :asian:

[jfarnsworth]

What I was talking about was still used offensively. Apply the chokes, wrist locks, etc. this way the individual works both the attacker & the defender points of view.
Jason Farnsworth

[sumdumguy]

I would say that they are all introduced to the white belts and more taught to the yellow thru belts. The introduction for chokes and locks come from the yellow belt techniques, but then so does the throw or takedown.

:asian:

[Goldendragon7]

but teaching the offense of these starts at 2nd Black for me, eariler if I have a talented student.

:asian:

[Seig]

Or later if we are particularly dense! :rofl:

[KenpoTess]

I have started our children at the studio on rolls at age 4.. they are so low to the ground and take to the forward roll easily.
at the college we have average age of 19 and most are quite intimidated by falling. though I have found when I give a slight 'push' they have less fear.. we teach the front, side and back fall all from a kneeling position first on the mats,, then take it up to a standing fall.. same with the rolls..

Joint Locks are taught early to the adult classes.. Utilizing some of the Akido technique Go Kyo .. Ni kyo, San kyo.. etc.. these are very effective beginner techs for locks.

chokes are more advanced teachings -Orange belt and only in the adult student for offensive moves. I don't think children should be taught to apply a choke hold on anyone as most don't have the knowledge and understanding what could really happen if used as a weapon. I sure don't want the responsibilty of explaining why we taught that. We do teach the little ones Grasp of Death in getting out of a headlock .. using an instructor as the attacker.

[brianhunter]

Originally posted by Kempojujutsu

For a throw we may start with the breakfall first before we move to the throw it's self. Bob :asian:

breakfalls!!! I have not heard that term in a few years, I was taught breakfalls in a karate school I attended as a kid but havent really seen it in Kenpo...How many American Kenpo guys out there teach breakfalls to students?????

[Kempojujutsu]

Originally posted by brianhunter

breakfalls!!! I have not heard that term in a few years, I was taught breakfalls in a karate school I attended as a kid but havent really seen it in Kenpo...How many American Kenpo guys out there teach breakfalls to students?????

I teach Kempo, but not the American Kenpo variety. We show a breakfall,(front, side, back) around Blue belt for kids, and purple for Adults.
Bob:asian:

[Goldendragon7]

place to start with the falls for us ........

:asian:

[Rainman]

Take downs strart early for us- not time wise but rank wise so as soon as they need them falling strategies are taught.


:asian:

[Goldendragon7]

:asian:

[Chronuss]

whew...break falls were some of the first things I learned under Sensei Seigel, and as I said before, the five hand positions were the very first thing he showed me. after that, hip throws. the very first class I attended at the dojo he showed defenses for getting out of bear hugs and head locks and that was pretty much one year ago.

[Goldendragon7]

He must have figured that you were gonna spend a great amount of time on the floor, so........ he taught you how to fall so you wouldn't hurt youself............ ya think?

:)

:asian:

[Seig]

All of my Ukes spend a lot of time on the ground. They need to learn to fall early so that they do not hurt themselves.

[FUZZYJ692000]

Originally posted by Chronuss

whew...break falls were some of the first things I learned under Sensei Seigel, and as I said before, the five hand positions were the very first thing he showed me. after that, hip throws. the very first class I attended at the dojo he showed defenses for getting out of bear hugs and head locks and that was pretty much one year ago.

Yep, 1st night of class at the college we learned the five hand positions, ouch. Within a couple of weeks we had started head locks, bear hugs, and two handed grabs and the techniques to get out of them. I did like that Seig let us learn our falls and stuff from the kneeling position at first....I might be short but it still looks like a long way to fall. He he!!! We've taught the kids class Captured Twigs (yellow belt) for against a bear hug from behind and most of the kids really like Grasp of Death (yellow) for the head locks too. As we progress in rank the techniques get harder and normally graft into another technique though. So when do we learn to fall and throws? Early!!!! Like Seig says we need to or else we may hurt ourselves.;)

[big351stang]

i do beleave the fastest way that i learned to fall was when i became the main Uki for being thrown. that is a really good way to learn. i know i didnt want to get hurt

[Seig]

He has quite a few Frequent Flier Miles logged, a few feet at a time!;)