Dragons IN Motion 2

[BruceCalkins]

Hi All Just an update..
http://www.goldendragondojo.com/VideoVault.html

I will be updating videos frequently due to Web Space so I can cycle them.

[Aegis]

Could you post an unarmed clip where the attacker actually attacks with good technique and intent? The three takedown clips all have beginner-level attacks, and personally I would be surprised if the blocks would work as shown against full-pace attacks, as if I remember rightly none of them utilise body weight in the blocks, or use balance breaking before attempting a throw..

Cheers in advance.

[Ceicei]

I really liked the third clip with your advanced student doing the nunchaku.

You mentioned in another thread that you run a very small school. What is the percentage of beginning students and advanced students?

- Ceicei

[Bester]

I'm lousy with chucks, tend to be self inflicted cup checks for me.

[TonyU]

Holding the nunchakus close to the chain shows a lack of understanding of the weapon.

[BruceCalkins]

Holding the nunchakus close to the chain shows a lack of understanding of the weapon.
Holding it close gives you less reach but more control

[BruceCalkins]

I really liked the third clip with your advanced student doing the nunchaku.

You mentioned in another thread that you run a very small school. What is the percentage of beginning students and advanced students?

- Ceicei
I am just recovering from a broken back and surgery. I have mostly White to Orange ranks. Deshi-Kai Larry has been with me before the accident. He is advancing to Purple in our system.

[evenflow1121]

What is the belt color rank in your system and what are the requirements?

[Aegis]

Bruce: will there be any demonstrations of defences against more commited attacks any time soon? Just asking because you addressed a couple of other posters but failed to respond to my request, and I just wanted to make sure it wasn't lost in the other replies.

Cheers

[BruceCalkins]

What is the belt color rank in your system and what are the requirements?White, Yellow, Orange, Green, Purple, 3rd Brown, 2nd Brown, 1st Brown 1st Black - 10th Black.

To give the requirements I would have to print my entire manual. Besides Basic, Intermediate and Advances techniques they have, Breaking, Kumate, They must design their own Form < (Empty Hand They With Weapon). They have a Bushido Requirement through out but listed in Black Belt ranks. I hope that helps I don't know hoe to give more with out d-loading the whole Manual.. Oh Yea Also they have 6 forms to learn.

[BruceCalkins]

Bruce: will there be any demonstrations of defences against more commited attacks any time soon? Just asking because you addressed a couple of other posters but failed to respond to my request, and I just wanted to make sure it wasn't lost in the other replies.

CheersSorry.. I hope to keep adding to the videos. I only have a basic unit for recording and I do have basicly white to orange belt students. Our style dosen't do many flash techniques we train with the basic street brawler punches and kicks. But I will see what I can do. :-)

[Aegis]

I didn't ask for flash techniques, and I'm not interested in seeing flash techniques. What I want to see is if your takedowns will work against actual attacks. In none of those takedown videos were you actually in the least bit of danger from the punches. For example, in takedown 1, the attack stops at full extension around 2 inches from your face (i.e. attack could never have hit you) before you contact it to parry, while in takedown 2 the "roundhouse punch" is done witht he arm at full extension before the attack begins, which will be barely noticable even if it hits you. As a result, the blocks do not need to be done well in order to stop the attacks, and I question the effectiveness of them as demonstrated.

In addition to this, the defences seem to rely ont he opponent not withdrawing his arm after his attack, or following up witha second punch.

For example, in takedown 1, if the opponent withdraws his arm as you are circling it, you probably lose the technique. If he throws a punch at your face as you lean in (still right in his target area) to circle his hand, then again you probably lose the lock, in addition to the fight if he hits you hard enough. Finally, there's no way that technique will cause a flip like that. If you twist the wrist as you show in that clip, the arm will buckle as the opponent tries to avoid the pain (I tried this on 2 untrained people to verify this). You might get a hammerlock on if you're fast enough to react, but the straight-arm wrist lock demonstrated almost certainly won't result in a takedown or a break in that direction.

Takedown 2: in additon to the poor attack and questionable block, this technique will not work on someone resisting. I attempted the technique on the same 2 friends, one about my height and weaker than me, the other shorter and probably stronger. Getting the armlock failed on both of them because while thay are on balance they can resist the technique. Now, when I did the block properly against the correct attack, I couldn't get the positioning at all because of the close distance, and instead did this against the same straight arm as you dealt with. Trapping the arm first and tugging to off-balance the opponent slightly gave more favourable results, but as soon as I went in for the shoulder lock they bent their arms down on to mine as a natural instinct, and the technique failed.

Technique 3 shows a slightly faster attack (which is a nice change) but it still has issues. The only attacks I can think of which would result in an attack like that are knives and sticks. In either case it would be more useful to train with a weapon there (rubber or wood would suffice if you're worried about accidents), and in both cases your block would almost certainly be insufficient again. If you pause the video at the point where your block makes contact with the attacking arm you'll notice that by the time that contact is made, the attack has nearly reached you. In which case it is probably going at near full speed,a nd with a stroger opponent witht he added weight of a weapon, that block will probbaly be a bit like a paper shield. You should either be advancing on to the attack to stop it at a weaker point, or sidestepping so it misses you naturally.

This is good advice for all of your techniques in fact: train against more aggressive attacks and work on your evasions, blocks with bodyweight behind them and takedown selection.

I'm having real difficulty seeing any of those techniques working as shown ina real situation.

[Gaskell]

Hi to all.
I have just watched the "Intermediate_Form_Chucks___Larry" video from your site. I see that the person in the video wears a green belt, which (from your post above) is around half-way through the grades for your club/style/whatever. May I just ask (before I start my notes on the "nunchuk form" itself): how long has this person been using the weapon? You will see by my notes below why I ask this.

Now for the main review/rant - in any order, but in note form.
A) Mainly the right hand was used for most of the "form". I know that not many people are ambidextrous, but I also know that you should train to use the weapon as well as possible with both hands. If you are right-handed, you should make more of an effort to practice with your left until you get to the stage that you dont have a "weaker hand".

B) The demonstrator's hands were too close to the kusari (holding the weapon in the jokon-bu area). You will find that it is a lot easier to use the weapon when you hold it in the chukon-bu or kikon-bu. From these areas, you dont need as much strength to move the weapon, and it will flow a lot easier (simple physics about torque/moments).

C) No proper stances. I know the video doesnt show the lower leg or foot positions, but it appears as though it is mainly shuffling on the spot (is he trying the dirk-dance while using them? Or tap-dancing?). The weapons techniques share some stances with Okinawan Karate (similar stances in most JMA I believe), and with that particular weapon Zen-kutso Datchi (forward stance) and Ko-kutso Datchi (back stance) are pretty common.

D) The "lower" techniques. Have you (or the demonstrator) tried these with wooden versions of the weapon used? If you have, are you still fertile? One slip with the "lower" techniques (2mm movement in the wrist) could mean a slight pain in the genitals as the wooden handle connects with your genitals. Yes, it is a good technique for showing control, but maybe it should be in an "Advanced form" instead of intermediate? Some people think that Intermediate is the stage where a practitioner stops clouting themselves across the head. If this is like your style/club/whatever, I suggest you take the advice I have just given you.

E) Erm, where were the blocks? :confused:

F) At the end, the practitioner is seen taking a deep breath as he steps back to a formal stance (for his bow). This (to me) shows that he cant control his breathing much during the form. He is putting so much effort into the techniques (which may be due to his grip (mentioned above)), that he needs to take a deep breath at the end. He could at least wait until he has bowed out at the end of the form.

G) All of the stuff in that form was "flashy" stuff! The only ways you could have made it any less "street practical" would be to throw in some flying kicks and use them "weapons" with the LEDs in them! Unless, of course, you are intending on putting any attackers in fits of laughter and running away while they roll on the floor laughing at you.

H) I have kept this one until the end, because it is one of the things that gets me reet annoyed...

it's NUNCHAKU not "nunchuks", "numbchuka" or any variation of them!

[The Kai]

let me guess.....these "forms" demonstrate natural movement, with no pre conceived motions"? So you pretty much are making these cr** up?
Keep using blunt and padded weapons for your own safety

[Ceicei]

This is good advice for all of your techniques in fact: train against more aggressive attacks and work on your evasions, blocks with bodyweight behind them and takedown selection.

I'm having real difficulty seeing any of those techniques working as shown ina real situation.
Remember, he did say that most of his students comprise of beginners (white-orange). They have to learn the basics first. The more realism and commitment are developed when they increase in rank.

That is why within Kenpo (at least with EPAK and probably within other styles, too) we start off at the "ideal" (or textbook) phase of training before going on to the next series of phases that deal with variations to teach the necessity of adapting. [Variations such as readiness, environment, attacker level, changing techniques to fit, ad infinitum.]

It should be the instructor's responsibility to guide the students to that level training and the students' responsibility to put in the effort to train progressively. If an instructor does not do so on a consistent level with all his students, then there is a problem with training.

- Ceicei

[Aegis]

Ceicei: with all due respect, he's supposed to be a 10th dan, not a beginner. As such, I would expect to see him able to demonstrate techniques against a more committed attack while still retaining enough control to not hurt his student.

If you are not training against a proper attack (at half speed, this still works) then there is no point in even blocking, as you have no incentive to do so. If someone I was teaching was punching so that their arm was at full extension 2 inches in front of my face I'd ask them to step forward 6 inches and do it again rather than do the move against a poor attack.

Remember, these videos were originally requested as part of the enquiry into Bruce and his ability to set up a new system and call himself a 10th dan. I would expect to at least see some demonstration of defences against slightly more realistic attacks. Defending against a half-assed attack doesn't demonstrate any ability, so I'm asking to see something a little better.

[The Kai]

From watching the underbelts (they are easy to spot, chinese uniform top with a japanese weapon) It does'nt seem that they are being instructed on the basics what so ever.

Please keep in mind that these is a self proclaimed weapons master, and acoording to the website can teach all the weapons on the face of the earth (and a few from farther reachs)

[Aegis]

Ok, once again someone has given me negative reputation for asking what I think is a perfectly reasonable question. So, once again, I ask whoever it is to have the common decency to at least contact me by PM to discuss what they mean by the word "chill". I'm not going to stop questioning what I feel is something worth the effort because of a few negative reputation points, so if you want a real effect, try communicating!

Of course, given the fact that so far all of the negative reputation points I've recieved have been anonymous, I won't hold my breath for someone to actually talk to me about what they feel is wrong with my posts.

Constructive criticism people! That's what I'm trying to do here, at least return the favour!

Apologies for the brief topic hijack.

[Gaskell]

(and a few from farther reachs) Could that be where these "nunchucks" are from? :confused:

:D

[BruceCalkins]

WOW I knew that you would find a closed minded way to make more of a pain. I am working with some of my students for our site not your training or amusement. In our style we use the Kenpo phylosophy of.. A Strike is a Block and a Block is a strike. With proper snap to the radial nerve it is not required to drive a hard stance or Block. The strike and snap does the work. I will not use full power techniques on my underbelts for your fun. If it didn't work for you. All I can say is you didn't have the right training. It works for everyone of my students every time. And the Lock in movement 2 needs a soft block and timing because you are using the other persons movement against him. You do not want to stop him motion. as for movement 1 I have full control of the hand and it is not getting away and I teach distance to my students. When you do a move you need to be at full reach. If you are not at the right distance and something goes wrong you GET HIT. This is why I teach them to move back to the end of the punch on that move and let the opponent exaust his/her energy before you move. The Bad Guy dosen't know you are going to Block they expect the punch to lay you out or they wouldn'y throw it... Unless you only fight Martial Artist that expect Blocks and parrys.

As for the Chucka Movements... Larry has only beel working with Chucks for 4 months and I think he is doing just fine. His stance was low and bases and he started with a Block and strike. They went into a free form movement. as for the hold... To Each His Own... I find the hold closer to the chain gives more control on the spinning moves and so do my students. so that is how we do it.. If you do it a different way... Great, enjoy and keep it up.. That is your way and I respect that.

[The Kai]

Actually there ere not any true blocks/strikes in the weapon forms. A lot of twirling.

The name is of course NunChucku, the stance was low??

[Aegis]

WOW I knew that you would find a closed minded way to make more of a pain.
Yes Bruce, I'm quite closed minded about teaching stuff that DOESN'T WORK. And the techniques you have shown us would not work AS SHOWN (which I said several times; I really do mean AS SHOWN, not "at all").


I am working with some of my students for our site not your training or amusement.
Yes, but why not work with them and show some good attacks and defences. A defence can only be as good as the attack, and against bad attacks most things will appear to work. As I mentioned, when you parried in clip 1, your student had already stopped moving his arm. In a self defence situation, had you waited that long you would have been hit. Simple fact.


In our style we use the Kenpo phylosophy of.. A Strike is a Block and a Block is a strike.
Yes, much like... most styles which use hard blocks in fact. However, without getting the hips involved, your block will never be a strike, instead it will be hammered out of the way as your opponent bears down on you at full force.



With proper snap to the radial nerve it is not required to drive a hard stance or Block.
Not quite sure what you're claiming here... With a solid block it is not necessary to block? That what you're getting at? If you want to do a hard block/striking block, you NEED to have your body weight behind it, or it becomes a game of strength against strength, which someone being attacked will often lose.



The strike and snap does the work.
Agreed, but not as shown.


I will not use full power techniques on my underbelts for your fun.
Not for my fun. I personally quite enjoy reviewing video clips like this, but to be honest the real reason I'm being ctritical is because you claimed to be a 10th dan in this system. Now, if that's your standard, and you are making the mistakes I pointed out, I hate to imagine the quality of your students. I'm sorry, but what you have shown me has not changed my opinion at all yet: you might have had the ability of a shodan a few years ago, but your grappling ability appears to leave a lot to be desired.


If it didn't work for you. All I can say is you didn't have the right training. It works for everyone of my students every time.
I would put money on it not working on either of my friends or myself. And the reason is that we haven't been conditioned to co-operate with your movements.


And the Lock in movement 2 needs a soft block and timing because you are using the other persons movement against him.
A soft block will not stop a proper roundhouse punch unless you also evade, which you clearly didn't


You do not want to stop him motion.
We use many techniques against roundhouse punches in my style. Some of them involve stopping the attack with a hard block, others involve flowing with the attack to use the movement against the attacker. Yours was neither: there was no movement for a soft block, nor was there enough bodyweight behind the block for a hard block.


as for movement 1 I have full control of the hand and it is not getting away and I teach distance to my students.
I'll admit that you MIGHT have control of that hand in the situation you showed, but against someone punching and withdrawing, you will have a lot more difficulty securing that hand without some movement on your part. Again, it works against a fairly static attack, but probably won't work against someone hitting properly


When you do a move you need to be at full reach.
Actually with a lot of moves you would be much better withing their reach, so close that they can't hit effectively. That shuts down a lot of their options.

In any case, you were not far enough away. At one point you leaned right in while both of your hands were securing the punching hand, which left your face completely exposed to a second punch with the opposite hand. Without an evasion, you are still right in his preferred target area.


If you are not at the right distance and something goes wrong you GET HIT. This is why I teach them to move back to the end of the punch on that move and let the opponent exaust his/her energy before you move.
If you let the opponent reacht he end of his punch before you start to parry, he will withdraw. He won't "expend his energy" and miraculously leave his hand there for you to do something to, he will pull it back to his guard, leaving you exactly where you were to begin with.


The Bad Guy dosen't know you are going to Block they expect the punch to lay you out or they wouldn'y throw it... Unless you only fight Martial Artist that expect Blocks and parrys.
The "Bad Guy" also won't leave his hand outstretched for you, nor will he attack the air 2 inches in front of your face, nor will he stop attacking just because you're doing something, nor will he fall for you without any balance breaking.

Like I said, your stuff as shown isn't exactly what I would expect from a 10th dan.

[Aegis]

Oh, one more thing: when you said "I will not use full power techniques on students", I meant to say that neither will I. However, I will not attack unrealistically either. I aim my punches for approximately 4 inches behing my partner's nose, and I throw some real weight behind the attacks. If they fail to avoid it, I will pull the attack if I can, but if they get hit then they can learn what being hit can feel like, and they also learn about blocking and dodging much faster than thinking "oh yeah, I might have been hit there, or I might have managed to block it, I don't really know, so I'll assume it was ok".

If you train without some realistic attacks, you are not learning. it is when the intensity goes up that your real ability shines through. Anything else is just demonstration in a stale environment.

[The Kai]

Do you think he has any training in the Kama?


Judging from the kata I'd say No, as far as a clue look at him watching the weapon twirl around his own hand

[Bob Hubbard]

Folks,
This seems to be turning a little ugly, and I'd prefer it doesn't. Bruce indicated teh clips are for his students enjoyment, and is sharing them with us out of courtesy. A lot of folks have offered him advice on improving, some of which I agree with, and some I am not qualified to digest yet. How about more folks toss up some clips of them doing stuff too? I'll be working on some stuff this week to add to my own site and will share it here.

[BruceCalkins]

Yes Bruce, I'm quite closed minded about teaching stuff that DOESN'T WORK. And the techniques you have shown us would not work AS SHOWN (which I said several times; I really do mean AS SHOWN, not "at all").


Yes, but why not work with them and show some good attacks and defences. A defence can only be as good as the attack, and against bad attacks most things will appear to work. As I mentioned, when you parried in clip 1, your student had already stopped moving his arm. In a self defence situation, had you waited that long you would have been hit. Simple fact.


Yes, much like... most styles which use hard blocks in fact. However, without getting the hips involved, your block will never be a strike, instead it will be hammered out of the way as your opponent bears down on you at full force.



Not quite sure what you're claiming here... With a solid block it is not necessary to block? That what you're getting at? If you want to do a hard block/striking block, you NEED to have your body weight behind it, or it becomes a game of strength against strength, which someone being attacked will often lose.



Agreed, but not as shown.


Not for my fun. I personally quite enjoy reviewing video clips like this, but to be honest the real reason I'm being ctritical is because you claimed to be a 10th dan in this system. Now, if that's your standard, and you are making the mistakes I pointed out, I hate to imagine the quality of your students. I'm sorry, but what you have shown me has not changed my opinion at all yet: you might have had the ability of a shodan a few years ago, but your grappling ability appears to leave a lot to be desired.


I would put money on it not working on either of my friends or myself. And the reason is that we haven't been conditioned to co-operate with your movements.


A soft block will not stop a proper roundhouse punch unless you also evade, which you clearly didn't


We use many techniques against roundhouse punches in my style. Some of them involve stopping the attack with a hard block, others involve flowing with the attack to use the movement against the attacker. Yours was neither: there was no movement for a soft block, nor was there enough bodyweight behind the block for a hard block.


I'll admit that you MIGHT have control of that hand in the situation you showed, but against someone punching and withdrawing, you will have a lot more difficulty securing that hand without some movement on your part. Again, it works against a fairly static attack, but probably won't work against someone hitting properly


Actually with a lot of moves you would be much better withing their reach, so close that they can't hit effectively. That shuts down a lot of their options.

In any case, you were not far enough away. At one point you leaned right in while both of your hands were securing the punching hand, which left your face completely exposed to a second punch with the opposite hand. Without an evasion, you are still right in his preferred target area.


If you let the opponent reacht he end of his punch before you start to parry, he will withdraw. He won't "expend his energy" and miraculously leave his hand there for you to do something to, he will pull it back to his guard, leaving you exactly where you were to begin with.


The "Bad Guy" also won't leave his hand outstretched for you, nor will he attack the air 2 inches in front of your face, nor will he stop attacking just because you're doing something, nor will he fall for you without any balance breaking.

Like I said, your stuff as shown isn't exactly what I would expect from a 10th dan.
In your Style.. You have no idea what goes on in my style or how my techniques work. I assure you that they do. Whether to believe it or not.. Is up to you. but you have no right to claim something you do not study doesn't work... I have studied Aikido. and I can tell you that 90% is a student /Uke going with the technique or it wouldn't work. Traditional Aikido have the student hang on for the ride... Watch some top level videos.. Unless they modify them they don't work.. But they do modify them for the right time. And then you see it different. I am doind these videos as help for my students not to be diasected by you who do not know our style. As for a soft block not working... Don't say that too loud around Aikido or Kung-Fu artist... Many Kung-Fu arts only block soft and Hit Hard... It is in the timing and flow not the Balance and Power for everything. I do teach Back Up Mass and Putting your Hip and Body behind moves but not these. They don't need it.

[The Kai]

Is it mind over matter??

[Aegis]

In your Style.. You have no idea what goes on in my style or how my techniques work. I assure you that they do. Whether to believe it or not.. Is up to you.
Bruce: According to your bio, I have done quite a bit more grappling than you in my life, and I can assure you that those techniques won't work against someone who does not want them applied in the cases you have demonstrated. Maybe with a slight change in application they could work, but you will do in a fight what you trained the most, and if you train like that it will not work.


but you have no right to claim something you do not study doesn't work... I have studied Aikido. and I can tell you that 90% is a student /Uke going with the technique or it wouldn't work.
Aikido "blocks" tend to flow with the motion then trap the limb from what I've seen. They evade the attack, then trap and deal with it. They don't just stand there with a hand in the air and expect attacks to stop on it.

I tell you what, you can clear this one up for everyone quite simply: do that exact same technique against someone throwing a roundhouse punch with 2 weeks of boxing training under their belt (so to speak).


I am doind these videos as help for my students not to be diasected by you who do not know our style.
Host it on the web and post the address to people and you WILL get feedback, both good and bad.


As for a soft block not working... Don't say that too loud around Aikido or Kung-Fu artist...
I think you misread my post. I never said that soft blocks didn't work. As it happens, soft blocks are my absolute favourate method of defending an attack. However, a soft block involves movement of the entire body, not just waving your hand at the attacking arm.



It is in the timing and flow not the Balance and Power for everything.
Sorry Bruce, but EVERYTHING in martial arts is about timing, flow, balance, power and distance. Ignore any of them and the whole thing falls apart.


I do teach Back Up Mass and Putting your Hip and Body behind moves but not these. They don't need it.
As I said, try the same technique against even a beginning boxer who is physically stronger than you and you will see what I'm talking about.

Anyway, I'm going to stop critiquing these techniques for now. If you want me to continue, feel free to post more comments, I will respond, but I'm not going to say anything more without some new material. I will also be there to look at any further videos posted of your style.

Have a great day!

[Bester]

Kaith asked us to be polite. I will be.

I must first thank Mr. Calkins for sharing. We have hammered on him pretty heavy, yet he still has the courage to continue. Despite our other differences, I must acknowledge you for this. :asian:

I now offer my critique.
- The video quality is very good for web clips. This allows one to see more than normal.
- The clips overall are good for entry level demonstrations. We must also allow that they are just that, demos, most likely done by amature filmers so some slight pauses are to be expected.
- I cannot comment on the Kama or NunChucku as I am not familiar with those weapons.
- The throws looked to be good. Could they have been better? Sure, but so could we all.
- The stick work was not that good. Mr. Calkins appears stiff, lacking the polish and flexibility I've seen in experienced stick-jocks. He indicated that it was based on a Kenpo stick form, and my opinion on kenpo weapon forms is not very positive. Compared to the FMA clips I have seen, it wasn't good.

[Cryozombie]

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[evenflow1121]

Ok, once again someone has given me negative reputation for asking what I think is a perfectly reasonable question. So, once again, I ask whoever it is to have the common decency to at least contact me by PM to discuss what they mean by the word "chill". I'm not going to stop questioning what I feel is something worth the effort because of a few negative reputation points, so if you want a real effect, try communicating!

Of course, given the fact that so far all of the negative reputation points I've recieved have been anonymous, I won't hold my breath for someone to actually talk to me about what they feel is wrong with my posts.

Constructive criticism people! That's what I'm trying to do here, at least return the favour!

Apologies for the brief topic hijack.
I dont mean to troll but I do want to make a point here, I think there should be a way for you to know who left you any kind of feedback. I mean if you are going to leave negative or positive feedback then why not disclose who you are.

Bruce, I meant how many techniques per belt are required in order to move up in rank?

[Ceicei]

Mr. Calkins did say more than once in this and other threads he had injured his back and had surgery. Could that account for the "stiffness" you see in his movements? Perhaps.

He also is tough/brave. How many will post clips, and continue to post more, even after people offer strongly worded observations and criticisms? :idunnno: He must see value in the comments, both positive and negative. For what it's worth, I applaud the establishment of this forum. I do enjoy seeing clips.

- Ceicei

[Rick Wade]

Bruce is a tough guy. I am just a guilty for dog piling on him.

I think he probably gets his strength from the church. I don't know if he is religious however he does teach out of a church and it seems to me that they wouldn't allow him to teach out of a church unless he was a member. I also think that is where he gets his extremely positive spin on life as well as the Martial Arts. For that I applaud him and admire him. I would definitely like to get together with him next year when I move to the east coast and work out (just him and me) and compare notes.

Bruce,

Until I get to meet you face to face (because feeling believing) I will ease up but still expect some tough questions.

V/R

Rick

[arnisador]

And another thread bites the dust... :(

[Bob Hubbard]

I sat down with a friend who is a kenpo instructor. She never heard of Kenpo 5 line stick drill. This doesn't mean much though as the curiculum at the IBBA has evolved over the years and may no longer be a part of the current mix.

Drill resembles the 1st 5 strikes in the Modern Arnis system I study, though there are differences. (I'll add a clip of my flavor shortly.)

Stick drill commentary
* grip on stick looks loose
* blocking hand has fingers spread apart
* stances are poor by FMA/Kenpo standards, if modified slightly would be good for fencing.

I have to agree with Bester on the polish part. I've seen better.
I've also seen worse and done worse myself.

:asian:

[Bob Hubbard]

And another thread bites the dust... :(
???

[arnisador]

I meant, it's bleeding out from critiquing and questioning what's here to a more general witch-hunt, ISTM.

In teh stick stuff, I thought there were too many strikes that were just snapped from the wrist rather than legitimate strikes.

[Bob Hubbard]

Witch hunting isn't the reason this forum exists. Hopefully, we can stick to the more professional critiquing.

Now, regarding the stick work, you know better than I on how effective it might be. Were my observations accurate, or am I off base?

[BruceCalkins]

I dont mean to troll but I do want to make a point here, I think there should be a way for you to know who left you any kind of feedback. I mean if you are going to leave negative or positive feedback then why not disclose who you are.

Bruce, I meant how many techniques per belt are required in order to move up in rank?
let me see...
White 7 Techniques and 4 Pracitcal.
Yellow 20 Techniques and 1 Kata
Orange 29 Techniques and 2 Kata
Green 35 Techniques , Breaking Requirement, Club Attack, 4 Sweeps, 2 Kata
Purple 15 Techniques , 4 Basic Jui Jitsu Holds and 2 Chokes, A Self Defense Portion and 1 Kata
3rd Brown 9 Techniques, Floor Defense (Fighting Up and Getting Back to your Feet, Not Grappling) Knowledge of striking Points, Pressure Points and Death Blows.(Knowing what strikes can cause death), Breaking Requirement,
2nd Brown Review for teaching and Theorys, 2 Man Attack, Defense from Chair and Saiza Position
1st Brown Review for Shodan Level testing, Must know defenses against 2 man attacks one Armed, Working Knowledge of Katsu First Aid, Advanced Club Attacks,
Shodan All techniques to be done expertly, Know all Japanese terms In Our Manual, Show and teach Bushido: 1) Truth 2) Bravery 3) Compassion 4) Courtesy 5) Sincerity 6) Loyalty 7) Good Judgment 8) Faith, Breaking: (Tamishiwara) Punch (1 Block & 4 Boards) Kick (1 Block & 4 Boards) Strike (1 Block & 4 Boards), Defend Against 3 Person Attack, Defend Against Knife Attacks, Satisfy Minimum Age for Shodan (16) (Students who do not fulfill the minimum age requirements for Shodan may be awarded a Junior Black Belt: Junior Black Belts will have a White Stripe down the middle.)

Now We have requirements beyond to 10th but I think this is what you wanted. Also when we test the student is required to take the test as follows..
White Belt:
For Yellow, They Take White & Yellow Belt test:
For Orange the Take White, Yellow and Orange Belt Tests: And so on. This way they constantly review every technique in the manual.

[BruceCalkins]

Bruce is a tough guy. I am just a guilty for dog piling on him.

I think he probably gets his strength from the church. I don't know if he is religious however he does teach out of a church and it seems to me that they wouldn't allow him to teach out of a church unless he was a member. I also think that is where he gets his extremely positive spin on life as well as the Martial Arts. For that I applaud him and admire him. I would definitely like to get together with him next year when I move to the east coast and work out (just him and me) and compare notes.

Bruce,

Until I get to meet you face to face (because feeling believing) I will ease up but still expect some tough questions.

V/R

Rick
I would be proud to have you. I might be coming to Hawaii In the fall :-)

[arnisador]

Stick drill commentary
* grip on stick looks loose
* blocking hand has fingers spread apart
* stances are poor by FMA/Kenpo standards, if modified slightly would be good for fencing.

Referring to the Soke___GJ_Stick_Drills.MPG file, here's what I see from an FMA viewpoint: The stances are probably OK given that this is a drill. What I do not notice is that there's a lot of side-to-side body motion, esp. by Mr. Calkins, that isn't really backing up the motion of the strike and so is probably wasted. There's a fair amount of hitting with the flat of the stick, esp. by the student, who does indeed have a poor grip. Those sticks would fly out of his hands if hit hard. Some of the motions leading to the strikes go very wide, esp. by Mr. Calkins. A lot of the strikes are snappy, wrist-strikes rather than strikes with the whole arm (or better yet, body)--this is the thing that really leaps out at me, along with the body motion not aligning with the strikes.

It may be Kenpo sticks, but it's very different from what I think of as FMA stickwork. It doesn't seem to me that it could be effective. BUT, it's hard to tell from a video and so I don't want to draw too strong of a conclusion!

[arnisador]

Referring now to the Kenpo_5_line___Soke.MPG file, is it designed for stick against empty hand? The stances do seem forward-weighted, but more to the point, the live (empty) hand keeps coming forward where it would surely get hit if the opponent had a stick, and the twirling without a firm, closed grip on the stick is always a risky move in an actual situation.

The mid-level backhand (Modern Arnis #4) strike seems abbrieviated? Hard to tell, but is the mid-level forehand (Modern Arnis #3) strike switching from palm-up to palm-down when the strike hits, or afterward?

From an FMA point of view, I'd find a number of deficiencies in these techniques. BUT, again, it's hard to tell on video, and it may well be appropriate Kenpo stickwork--I'm not familiar with that.

Can a Kenpoist who is knowledgeable about their stick traditions comment?

[The Kai]

Allthough the style of Kenpo that I do does not have a "stick form" GM Jordan has trained in some stick arts.

The Calkins video looks like a guy with really minimal training swinging a stick around

[rupton]

However, I will not attack unrealistically either. I aim my punches for approximately 4 inches behing my partner's nose, and I throw some real weight behind the attacks. If they fail to avoid it, I will pull the attack if I can, but if they get hit then they can learn what being hit can feel like, and they also learn about blocking and dodging much faster
Amen, I can't tell you the number of times I was hit like that trying a new technique. It may sound silly but I've always been grateful for all the knocks. It keeps it real so to speak. I've also been grateful all the times I've tried a new hold or lock and my Uke walked out of it showing me the error of my ways, or executed a good counter attack instead of acting like I was putting the requisite hurting on them ;-) I get a lot of flack for being un PC on this point but I feel as though everyone should learn what being hit feels like(whithin reason of course).

[ap Oweyn]

I sat down with a friend who is a kenpo instructor. She never heard of Kenpo 5 line stick drill. This doesn't mean much though as the curiculum at the IBBA has evolved over the years and may no longer be a part of the current mix.The angles he demonstrates are "cinco teros." Pretty common drilling sequence in FMA. Granted it could be that the same exact sequence existed in kenpo all along. But if I had to guess, I'd say it was lifted from FMA. (Nothing wrong with that, mind you. But being open about it is a virtue.)


Stuart

[whoyou23]

I would LOVE to see you guys meet. Make sure you post when this will happen so we can all get some enjoyment out of you showing Bruce the real deal instead of the crap he shovels on this forum!!!

Broken back and surgery??? must be he can't teach his students due to this affliction,but can ride his trike around all summer long!!!!