How To Create Your Own McDojo

[AikidoCal]

Reading several martial arts magazines at the local Barnes and Nobles, it hit me like a ton of bricks, what I was reading all these years was nothing more then instuctions on how to create your own Mcdojo.

See I compare the commerical martial arts magazines to other commerical sports magazines, and what I found was the quality comparatively is so bad in the martial arts magazines it hinges on being totally tabloid. All I could see in these so call martial arts magazines was the modeling of how to B.S. people, and indirectly create your own McDojo in 3 informerical steps. A continuous cycling of the "How To" for people who want to start a McDojo.

All you have to do is just pick up any martial arts magazine at your local book store and you will find articles and layouts on how to market yourself into a Mc Master just by subscribing to what is being written. They teach you how to talk, how to sell and market yourself, and how to advertise yourself in the most productive way. It seem as if that is their goal. Maybe that is why On Line Magazines like MT are so successful, and refreshing, because they didn't sell out and are true and honest to the reader.


Is anyone out there that feels the same way?

[terryl965]

Yea but what happens when you get on the floor!!!!

[MJS]

Yea but what happens when you get on the floor!!!!

Oh, I'm sure they have books for that as well.

Mike

[hammer]

Oh, I'm sure they have books for that as well.

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Cheers
Hammer

[Sin]

I find this tread to be rather hallarious...its like, mcDojo now comes in Combo deals...Hey I wonder if you can Super Size it.

[Paul B]

Sad but true.

I don't think I have even looked at a "MA Mag" since I was about 14 or so. It's just embarrassing,some of the pure crap in print.

The endless amount of "Instant lethality in 5 easy steps" kind of propoganda waded through to pick up *maybe* a grain of useful information makes it hardly worth the trouble.

[MA-Caver]

Yeah, crap reading alright and it works both ways... say someone was of mind to create a mcdojo and does so via mail-order BB of whatever art he/she takes to their fancy and thus creates one with the help of some backers and the guarantee that they'll get their return doubled in a short while.
Then there's the un-informed MA-Mag reader who takes what the mag writes to heart and then goes to said McDojo and hears the "Master" spout off the same B.S. that the mag was writing and "lo! I have found the master from whom I shall turn over my life-savings and learn the secret arts of __________ (fill in the blank).
Kinda sad isn't it.

One possible result... the student learns that his so called Master is full of it and leaves, then searches out another school...finds one... this time legit... and ends up thinking the senior instructor is just as full of it.

Sooo, who out there on MT wants to publish a totally legit MA mag that will blast these fakers out of the water?
It seems like the right thing to do no? That is if we honor our individual arts and want that honor to stay with it.

[Blindside]

Sooo, who out there on MT wants to publish a totally legit MA mag that will blast these fakers out of the water?

Pssst. Martial Talk already does....

Actually, the only mag I read is Journal of Asian Martial Arts, good mag but pricey. Source citation is a good thing.

Lamont

[evenflow1121]

When I was a teenager I used to love those MA Magazines, then in my senior year I picked one up and had a guy teaching knife defense. His defense against a thrust was to use a crecent kick and block the knife with the kick, which is prob the stupidest thing in the world considering that all the assailant would have to do is peirce your ankle or heel. The saddest part was how many clueless individuals out there will subscribe to this crap and pass it on to their students. I also remember several ads on how to turn your 10 student dojo in one with 100 students.

[Simon Curran]

I also remember several ads on how to turn your 10 student dojo in one with 100 students.
I think that is the worse part, they are aimed specifically at those who think of martial arts as a business, rather than a personal enlightenment pursuit...
(Whoa babbling, need coffee, early in morning...)

[chinto01]

Pssst. Martial Talk already does....

Actually, the only mag I read is Journal of Asian Martial Arts, good mag but pricey. Source citation is a good thing.

Lamont


I agree that Journal of Asian Martial Arts is a good magazine. May I also suggest Classical Fighting Arts.

Rob

[matt.m]

You know, I actually may find a decent article in the BlackBelt issue or issue of TKD Times. They are not the technique articles but interview articles or history, that sort of thing.

Like I said once in a while they have good articles but the magazine as a whole may just be non sense. Hey remember buying a cassette for only one song? Same kind of deal here.

[Guardian]

Like anything else in this world, it's what you take out of it. If all you see is how to make a McDojo, then that's all you will get out of it. If all you see is the stupid moves to defend yourself against a knife, then that's all you will get out of it.

If all you look for is the stupid negative MA adds or other ridiculous aspects in this that help them promote their magazines, then that's all you will get out of it.

Every magazine has it's pitfalls and it's good aspects. Take what you need out of it and leave the rest. It's pretty simple in my view.

[Sylo]

Like anything else in this world, it's what you take out of it. If all you see is how to make a McDojo, then that's all you will get out of it. If all you see is the stupid moves to defend yourself against a knife, then that's all you will get out of it.

If all you look for is the stupid negative MA adds or other ridiculous aspects in this that help them promote their magazines, then that's all you will get out of it.

Every magazine has it's pitfalls and it's good aspects. Take what you need out of it and leave the rest. It's pretty simple in my view.



This guy must have read a ton of martial arts magazines then..

www.numchucks.net

[ArmorOfGod]

This guy must have read a ton of martial arts magazines then..

www.numchucks.net (http://www.numchucks.net)

That link didn't work for me. Is that right?

AoG

[Sylo]

That link didn't work for me. Is that right?

AoG


ahh.. your right.. its

http://www.numchucks.com/

[ArmorOfGod]

I can't decide if that site is a joke or not. He keeps misspelling nunchucks. Of course, the whole thing is ridiculous and kind of reminds me of the Onion news source.
On a more awesome note, he mentions Crab Fu! (see the crab fu thread here at MT).

AoG

[terryl965]

Just remember they are here to stay, love them or hate them.

[YoungMan]

Reading several martial arts magazines at the local Barnes and Nobles, it hit me like a ton of bricks, what I was reading all these years was nothing more then instuctions on how to create your own Mcdojo.

See I compare the commerical martial arts magazines to other commerical sports magazines, and what I found was the quality comparatively is so bad in the martial arts magazines it hinges on being totally tabloid. All I could see in these so call martial arts magazines was the modeling of how to B.S. people, and indirectly create your own McDojo in 3 informerical steps. A continuous cycling of the "How To" for people who want to start a McDojo.

All you have to do is just pick up any martial arts magazine at your local book store and you will find articles and layouts on how to market yourself into a Mc Master just by subscribing to what is being written. They teach you how to talk, how to sell and market yourself, and how to advertise yourself in the most productive way. It seem as if that is their goal. Maybe that is why On Line Magazines like MT are so successful, and refreshing, because they didn't sell out and are true and honest to the reader.


Is anyone out there that feels the same way?

You're just now figuring this out? Magazines, like bad schools, exist to get readers in the door, so to speak. It becomes a constant game of hype and sensationalism, otherwise their attention will be directed elsewhere.
Journal of Asian Martial Arts is noticeably better, but it tends to put me to sleep and suck all the enjoyment out of a dynamic activity. Try to imagine a TV documentary on, say, Taekwondo narrated by Ben Stein. That's Journal of Asian MA.

[Rich Parsons]

You're just now figuring this out? Magazines, like bad schools, exist to get readers in the door, so to speak. It becomes a constant game of hype and sensationalism, otherwise their attention will be directed elsewhere.
Journal of Asian Martial Arts is noticeably better, but it tends to put me to sleep and suck all the enjoyment out of a dynamic activity. Try to imagine a TV documentary on, say, Taekwondo narrated by Ben Stein. That's Journal of Asian MA.


The original post you quoted was from 2005 and the account is no longer active.

[AMP-RYU]

The original post you quoted was from 2005 and the account is no longer active.

Yeah this thread is an oldie!

[thesandman]

Speaking as if a martial arts school shouldn't at least in some ways be treated similar to a business is not only a little naive but pretty self-centered.

To quote myself from another thread:


I have dedicated my life to my art and to it's teaching, I don't think it unreasonable that I make enough to live off of doing it. I don't have a "day job". I train and I teach. That's all I do. I provide a service that people value greatly. Why would anyone judge me because I want to be able to pay my rent and car insurance? I'm not asking to live in a mansion and drive a BMW, just for enough to live.

Too many people in the martial arts try to label "profit" like it's some kind of dirty word. Yes, it can get out of hand. Greedy people exist in every industry. Some schools do in fact charge an arm and a leg and can seem like belt factories. The good news is, those places fail more often than not because word spreads. People don't feel like their getting their moneys worth and they move on.

Boggles my mind that people would think that paying $30k/yr for college is fine, but more than $5/class for martial arts is a rip off.

[BrandonLucas]

Speaking as if a martial arts school shouldn't at least in some ways be treated similar to a business is not only a little naive but pretty self-centered.

To quote myself from another thread:


I have dedicated my life to my art and to it's teaching, I don't think it unreasonable that I make enough to live off of doing it. I don't have a "day job". I train and I teach. That's all I do. I provide a service that people value greatly. Why would anyone judge me because I want to be able to pay my rent and car insurance? I'm not asking to live in a mansion and drive a BMW, just for enough to live.

Too many people in the martial arts try to label "profit" like it's some kind of dirty word. Yes, it can get out of hand. Greedy people exist in every industry. Some schools do in fact charge an arm and a leg and can seem like belt factories. The good news is, those places fail more often than not because word spreads. People don't feel like their getting their moneys worth and they move on.

Boggles my mind that people would think that paying $30k/yr for college is fine, but more than $5/class for martial arts is a rip off.

Profit and greed are 2 totally different things.

I think most of us on this forum that are interested in teaching or who already teach would love to live well off of their instruction. It's my ultimate goal to no longer work a 9-5 job, and to make a living doing what I love to do.

McDojos take shorcuts and make sacrifices at the expense of the student...at which point, the studen ceases to be a "student" and becomes a "customer" or "consumer". Yes, some sacrifices are going to have to be made to keep any business open. But, the sacrifice shouldn't decrease the value of the product provided.

McDojos has become the hot topic on this forum as of late, and one of the things that I've learned is that it seems that the term McDojo has different meanings to different people, but the same basic principal applies: it's all about the dollar at the end of the day.

That is where the difference between a school owner who is trying to make a living off of teaching and a school owner who is trying to increase profit at any and all expenses comes into play.

I do think that in order to be a good business person, certain risks have to be taken, and you have to be shrewd at times. But all of this is covered in sales and marketing courses...which, I suspect, most McDojo owners have never taken. Some of them have, and use that as their strength to get ahead, but I'm willing to bet dollars to donuts that most McDojo owners have a plan in mind, but get wrapped up in making more and more money with no education to help them figure out the right way to do it.

[thesandman]

I agree BrandonLucas, (funny you should mention formal education, I went to college for a marketing degree) I just think we should be careful about how fast we are to label any one thing as being a part of that problem. Articles in martial arts magazines about ways to improve the profitability of your school are not necessarily a part of this problem.

I see it like this:

Trying to squeeze every dollar out of your students: Bad

Working hard every day to attract new students: Good

[Rich Parsons]

Yeah this thread is an oldie!


Yes it is. And bring back old threads is cool and good and appreciated when done in a positive manner.



You're just now figuring this out? Magazines, like bad schools, exist to get readers in the door, so to speak. It becomes a constant game of hype and sensationalism, otherwise their attention will be directed elsewhere.
Journal of Asian Martial Arts is noticeably better, but it tends to put me to sleep and suck all the enjoyment out of a dynamic activity. Try to imagine a TV documentary on, say, Taekwondo narrated by Ben Stein. That's Journal of Asian MA.


But, let us look at your first word of your inital post on this thread. "You." You were address the initial poster.

Which I then posted the following:


The original post you quoted was from 2005 and the account is no longer active.


Trying to sell you a clue that the initial posted will not be around to reply to your negative comment of "Just now getting it".

And to add to your slippery slope of trying to play and see who will play with you, you reply back and only quote part of me trying to make it look like I am either attacking you or I am without a clue. When in reality you made the initial comment and I tried to let you know that if you were waiting for a reply from the initial poster it was not going to happen.

So, All I have to say to this, Good Luck posting here.

[RevIV]

what amazes me is all the school owners who talk like they really want to make a living out of the martial arts but never go to business seminars. I belong to an organization out here in new england World Martial Arts Federation. They run two major tournaments a year and offer many seminars in all arts as well as in business. (not to mention one of the behind the scene guys has a huge martial arts supply store) The point is, I have not missed one of these business seminars and they are run by people who have some of the most successful dojo's in New England and the country. What kills me is the turnout is always small, and the people who need it most are the ones who think they know everything already, or already believe that what they have to offer will not help them. Sure they are McDojo'ish at some levels but I can pick and choose what I want to do. Master Bouchard, who runs a great seminar, hands us thousands of dollars worth of helpful material for almost nothing. ($35. for members for the seminar) He gave us notebooks full of ads, letters to give to parents, teachers, students.. Ideas on marketing and much more. Plus helpful tips on running a good class when you do start to get a lot of students.
Oh yeah, best thing I ever did.... Billing co. I like to teach, not chase checks.

[Daniel Sullivan]

Well, to comment on MA mags, I refer to them as trade publications. Every trade has one or sometimes several. Work in the music biz? You probably read the occasional issue of guitar world.

For those of us who instruct, be it for profit or on a volunteer basis, martial arts is our trade. These publications exist to support and to service that trade. I read Blackbelt, TKD Times, and Mastermag. I really enjoy them, mainly for the interviews and to a great extent, just to see what's going on in the larger MA community.

Also consider that your students may be reading such publications, so keeping abreast of what is being published can be handy in knowing where some of your students may be coming from.

Regarding the McDojo how-to guides, an aid to a school owner in more effectively operating the business and marketing aspects of his or her school is very helpful. Certainly, some of these things have their dark side, paper mill certifications being the biggest. But does using a particular business model directly affect the training that you as an instructor provide? No. Are there lousy, under qualified or unqualified instructors who will use such a business model to open a lousy school? You betcha. Did lousy schools exist before the "McDojo"? You betcha. Lousy schools with posturing fakes have been around for as long as the martial arts.

One of the uniquely American traits, specifically USA American, is the ability to systemitize anything. The car, the franchise, the online university. Not that these were American inventions necesarilly, but we have a particular talent for it here. Comes from being a young nation that spent its first hundred and fifty years pedal to the metal trying to catch up to and pass industrial Europe, both as an economic world power and as a military world power.

Now that we've gotten where we need to be, such rapid growth and expansion isn't necessary anymore, but that mentality doesn't go away overnight. Nor should it; hard work and a good system benefits everyone. The only caveat is that some people will take advantage of such business systems for the express purpose of making money at others' expense.

So why hate on the McDojo? McDojo owners figured out how to do something (make a profit at MA) and do it well. Perhaps that is one lesson that we should learn. Add a good business model to quality instruction and not only do you run a good business, you provide more students with good quality training. Now in my book, thats a win/win.

Daniel

[sadantkd]

So why hate on the McDojo? McDojo owners figured out how to do something (make a profit at MA) and do it well. Perhaps that is one lesson that we should learn. Add a good business model to quality instruction and not only do you run a good business, you provide more students with good quality training. Now in my book, thats a win/win.

Daniel


This is an excellent point. I put far more hard work into becoming a good martial arts instructor than the average college professor does to reach his "highly respected" position, so why should it be considered taboo for me to want to make a good living in return for all my art and my teaching can provide.

[TomoeTamara]

Pssst. Martial Talk already does....

Actually, the only mag I read is Journal of Asian Martial Arts, good mag but pricey. Source citation is a good thing.

Lamont

ME TOO! The Journal of Asian Martial Arts is on of my favorites.....and one of the only that is full of reputable information. Kinda reminds me of a peer reviewed journal.

[Deaf Smith]

What?

People here don't like the photos of menacing stances, and grimacing,
and how the 'hero' chops, elbows, kicks, punches, etc... some bad guy/student?

And the 15 ways to stop a strait punch (do we really need 15?)

Honestly, the articles I don't like in the martial arts magazines are the ones on movie stars and karate movies. I just really don't care for Hollywood.

Now and then one of them will have a good nugget of information. It's usually on one of the small contributors (I like Teri Tom personally.)

99 per cent of the rest is all flashy BS. As a result I usually just read them on the magazine rack and put them back.

Deaf