Teaching in English or ????????????

[VSanhodo]

Hi Folks
I was having a conversation with an old friend of mine the other day. Now let me say before I go on I am very much a student of the Martial Arts as is my friend. He teaches in Japanese whereas I teach in English. He feels you have to teach this way, whereas I feel teaching in a foreign language here in the Us tends to retard learning. Now, more of my view. I feel if you teach in a different language than the native language of the coutnry you live in, First the student has to take the info in, process the info, translate it in their minds to thier native language then execute the action requested. Whereas, in my case I teach in English.
Now he and I have been lifelong friends and John is one of my first instructors. So we go way back. He feels you should teach in the native language of the art.I will agree there are some words which simply do not translate well into other languages. Well, anyway while he and I differ in opinion on this subject. We were both wondering how others feel about this. so my question I think is pretty obvious by now. How do you feel on this?
Remember I dont have to agree with you to respect your opinion, all posts and views are welcome.

Thanks

San

[hammer]

Hi Folks
I was having a conversation with an old friend of mine the other day. Now let me say before I go on I am very much a student of the Martial Arts as is my friend. He teaches in Japanese whereas I teach in English. He feels you have to teach this way, whereas I feel teaching in a foreign language here in the Us tends to retard learning. Now, more of my view. I feel if you teach in a different language than the native language of the coutnry you live in, First the student has to take the info in, process the info, translate it in their minds to thier native language then execute the action requested. Whereas, in my case I teach in English.
Now he and I have been lifelong friends and John is one of my first instructors. So we go way back. He feels you should teach in the native language of the art.I will agree there are some words which simply do not translate well into other languages. Well, anyway while he and I differ in opinion on this subject. We were both wondering how others feel about this. so my question I think is pretty obvious by now. How do you feel on this?
Remember I dont have to agree with you to respect your opinion, all posts and views are welcome.

Thanks

San"I respect the right of choice",

I suppose that is one of the attraction's of American Kenpo, It's your choice to learn a devastating Art in English! http://martialtalk.com/forum/images/icons/icon10.gif


Cheers

Hammer

[The Kai]

How long did it take the chinese to start teaching an indian art in the chinese tongue

How about the Okinawans how long were thet chained to the chinese terminology?
Japan?
I think that teaching in the old tongue is a way to seem more credible

[hammer]

How long did it take the chinese to start teaching an indian art in the chinese tongue

How about the Okinawans how long were thet chained to the chinese terminology?
Japan?
I think that teaching in the old tongue is a way to seem more credible
You know what I find funny, Is when a westerner say's the word "Karate", and Change their pitch and tone in their voice to sound Japanese.http://martialtalk.com/forum/images/icons/icon12.gif
lol

Cheers Hammer

[clfsean]

I teach in Chinese. That's what my sifu holds his classes in, that's his does, his did, etc....

EVERYTHING in in Cantonese. Otherwise, why not just say I'm teaching American "X" if I'm going to remove that integral part from it?? Talking & cutting up is in English of course, but when it's technical related to the art, it's in the language it was developed in.

[The Kai]

Don't/Can't we start to interpret some of these words?? If a student were to ask me what Kiai is I answer "Some mudo ken no tsuki, ai ma ai" if he can't make out a word of it that's his problem? After all he did sign up for lessons knowing full well that karate is japanese and he needs to learn the language before we go any further!! After alll this is america speak pigden japanese!!


P.S. The phrase I used is BS. before any translated it for me

[clfsean]

I always tell people what the English translation is. I don't hang them out. Sorry if it seemed that way.

But think about it this... if you walked into a place claiming to teachTCMA & all they do is speak English, wouldn't you wonder just a little about what they
taught?
But when I call something like "Churng Sum Toi Churng Sum Jeurng Chop Choy" in line drills, they know what to throw & how to throw it. This as opposed to "Outside crescent kick, horizontal palm strike, punch" to anybody onlooking.

[Andrew Green]

Most westeren martial artists that try to teach in Japanese just end up butchering it badly. Missusing words, misspronouncing words, misinterpreting ideas.

Speak the language that everyone in the room is most fluent in, makes things so much clearer.

[The Kai]

I always tell people what the English translation is. I don't hang them out. Sorry if it seemed that way.

But think about it this... if you walked into a place claiming to teachTCMA & all they do is speak English, wouldn't you wonder just a little about what they
taught?
But when I call something like "Churng Sum Toi Churng Sum Jeurng Chop Choy" in line drills, they know what to throw & how to throw it. This as opposed to "Outside crescent kick, horizontal palm strike, punch" to anybody onlooking.
So you use chinese not to help your students but to confuse outsiders??

If you translate then why not teach in your native tongue??

[rmclain]

I believe it is a good idea to pass along the terminology of your native art. I have the situation that my teacher is Korean and I learn Korean terminology. But, I am learning Chinese Chuan-fa, Shudokan karate (influenced from Okinawa), in addition to Hapkido and Taekwondo.

I really am not interested in taking the time to have my students learn each language/terminology for each technique, from each country - many of the arts have the same techniques. I'd prefer to have them take the time to practice applying it and improving the techniques. If they want, they can look up the other languages outside of class.

I believe that teachers should mostly use the language of the students they are teaching. This way, the information is passed along in the most efficient and understandable way. They should teach the terminology of the art studied, but it shouldn't be dwelled upon unnecessarily.

R. McLain

[Gemini]

I feel teaching in a foreign language here in the Us tends to retard learning. I agree. It doesn't stop it, but it certainly slows it down. I do think learning the original language of the art is important though. Just not at the expense of learning the art itself. Our instruction is in English followed by the same instruction in Korean.

[hammer]

I always tell people what the English translation is. I don't hang them out. Sorry if it seemed that way.

But think about it this... if you walked into a place claiming to teachTCMA & all they do is speak English, wouldn't you wonder just a little about what they
taught?
But when I call something like "Churng Sum Toi Churng Sum Jeurng Chop Choy" in line drills, they know what to throw & how to throw it. This as opposed to "Outside crescent kick, horizontal palm strike, punch" to anybody onlooking.Clfsean, Could you please explain the benifit of,"Churng Sum Toi Churng Sum Jeurng Chop Choy"as opposed to "Outside crescent kick, horizontal palm strike, punch"

Do you teach the movements in Cantonese?

Do you give corrections in Cantonese?

Could you share your thoughts on how this benifits the students understanding of the application and or the execution of the movements?

I think that there is a little mystic of the orient there,

Cheers
Hammer

[clfsean]

So you use chinese not to help your students but to confuse outsiders??

If you translate then why not teach in your native tongue??
No I use Chinese to pass it along the way it's taught to me. It's not to confuse anybody watching. It's because we teach a TCMA so we teach it in Chinese. The Chinese locals tend to appreciate if not giggle at us for doing it that way. The non-Chinese seem to enjoy it because they're getting a little language training in something different along the way.

I give the student's the translation for the techniques for ease use & note taking.

[clfsean]

Most westeren martial artists that try to teach in Japanese just end up butchering it badly. Missusing words, misspronouncing words, misinterpreting ideas.

Speak the language that everyone in the room is most fluent in, makes things so much clearer.
There are exceptions to every most usage...

Where I teach, not everybody speaks English as a first or even second language.

[MJS]

Hi Folks
I was having a conversation with an old friend of mine the other day. Now let me say before I go on I am very much a student of the Martial Arts as is my friend. He teaches in Japanese whereas I teach in English. He feels you have to teach this way, whereas I feel teaching in a foreign language here in the Us tends to retard learning. Now, more of my view. I feel if you teach in a different language than the native language of the coutnry you live in, First the student has to take the info in, process the info, translate it in their minds to thier native language then execute the action requested. Whereas, in my case I teach in English.
Now he and I have been lifelong friends and John is one of my first instructors. So we go way back. He feels you should teach in the native language of the art.I will agree there are some words which simply do not translate well into other languages. Well, anyway while he and I differ in opinion on this subject. We were both wondering how others feel about this. so my question I think is pretty obvious by now. How do you feel on this?
Remember I dont have to agree with you to respect your opinion, all posts and views are welcome.

Thanks

San

IMO, it would all depend on the school. Some are going to be much more traditional than others, so it may be a requirement at the school. I've seen some schools where they give the foreign term for a strike and then say it in English. Again, its all going to depend on the school.

Mike

[DavidCC]

I teach in Chinese. That's what my sifu holds his classes in, that's his does, his did, etc....

EVERYTHING in in Cantonese. Otherwise, why not just say I'm teaching American "X" if I'm going to remove that integral part from it?? Talking & cutting up is in English of course, but when it's technical related to the art, it's in the language it was developed in.
So how do you say "fix your feet" in Cantonese?

Or "relax your soulders", or "today we are going to work on ..." or "good class eveyone, remeber next week we will not have the 9am class but you can make it up by coming to the 1pm class if you like" or even "please buy a school t-shirt" LOL

is all that stuff in Cantonese too?

or are you just using the chinese terminology for the technical jargon, stuck inside English dialog?

I would be really hampered if my classes were being taught in Hawaiian. or with a thick New England accent. "Right Flaminger" "leopahd's pawr" haha

[Adept]

Personally, I think teaching in a non-english language to an english speaking class is just silly.

After all, the words are just descriptions so that people know what they are supposed to be doing. Why use the Japanese or Chinese words? Why not the Italian or Swedish ones?

Why call it a gi instead of a uniform? After all, gi is simply the japanese word for a martial arts uniform. Why wouldn't we translate it?

So the art may have been developed in Japan or China. How is that relevant?

[mj_lover]

personally, i like using a different language in the dojo/dojang keeps my mind off of outside thoughs and misc. soreness from the workout. besides, its kinda cool to be able to comunicate with others in your style, regardless of nationality. one system, one language.

[clfsean]

Clfsean,

1) Could you please explain the benifit of,"Churng Sum Toi Churng Sum Jeurng Chop Choy"as opposed to "Outside crescent kick, horizontal palm strike, punch"

2) Do you teach the movements in Cantonese?

3) Do you give corrections in Cantonese?

4) Could you share your thoughts on how this benifits the students understanding of the application and or the execution of the movements?

5) I think that there is a little mystic of the orient there,

Cheers
Hammer
Sorry for the delay. The board decided to not work for like the last hour or so at work, then I had to go to class. I typed a nice response up & lost it the first time the board quit responding, so the second time, I emailed it to myself. I numbered your question make it easy to read. Here ya go...

**************************
1) When my sifu or sigung visits or they visit them, that's what they will hear. If I were teaching a MA that was not traditional, I wouldn't use another language or if my teacher said not, I wouldn't. Otherwise they learn like I learn.

2) For the names & technical items related directly to a technique, yes. I don't speak Cantonese except for what is used in CLF.

3) See #2.

4) It gives them more to think about than step, block, punch, kick, etc... When I call out "Hak Wu Jin Chi", they know to perform a certain motion a certain way. When I say let's do 30 Sow Choy's, they know what punch to do & when they hear Sam Sup, they stop. It gives them a small peek into a different culture that may inspire them to bigger things. Then again it may just be a mental exercise, who's to say?

5) A little, but no more so than how the techniques were first recorded to hide them from the Qing government or to help a person remember certain motions because of motions physical appearance or lack of education. Poems/lyrics are easily remembered in a sing song fashion.

[clfsean]

So how do you say "fix your feet" in Cantonese?

Or "relax your soulders", or "today we are going to work on ..." or "good class eveyone, remeber next week we will not have the 9am class but you can make it up by coming to the 1pm class if you like" or even "please buy a school t-shirt" LOL

is all that stuff in Cantonese too?
Nah nah... all that stuff is in English.



or are you just using the chinese terminology for the technical jargon, stuck inside English dialog?
Bingo.



I would be really hampered if my classes were being taught in Hawaiian. or with a thick New England accent. "Right Flaminger" "leopahd's pawr" haha
I haven't figured if there's a Cantonese version of "y'all" yet, so I'm just sticking with what I have to know to teach. :)

[Bammx2]

I teach in american(and YES,it is different from english!)

As far as I'm concerned.....
a butt-whoopin is a butt-whoopin no matter what language it's in!
images/icons/icon12.gif

[hammer]

Sorry for the delay. The board decided to not work for like the last hour or so at work, then I had to go to class. I typed a nice response up & lost it the first time the board quit responding, so the second time, I emailed it to myself. I numbered your question make it easy to read. Here ya go...

**************************
1) When my sifu or sigung visits or they visit them, that's what they will hear. If I were teaching a MA that was not traditional, I wouldn't use another language or if my teacher said not, I wouldn't. Otherwise they learn like I learn.

2) For the names & technical items related directly to a technique, yes. I don't speak Cantonese except for what is used in CLF.

3) See #2.

4) It gives them more to think about than step, block, punch, kick, etc... When I call out "Hak Wu Jin Chi", they know to perform a certain motion a certain way. When I say let's do 30 Sow Choy's, they know what punch to do & when they hear Sam Sup, they stop. It gives them a small peek into a different culture that may inspire them to bigger things. Then again it may just be a mental exercise, who's to say?

5) A little, but no more so than how the techniques were first recorded to hide them from the Qing government or to help a person remember certain motions because of motions physical appearance or lack of education. Poems/lyrics are easily remembered in a sing song fashion.No probs,!

Could you please explain the benifit of,"Churng Sum Toi Churng Sum Jeurng Chop Choy"as opposed to "Outside crescent kick, horizontal palm strike, punch"




1) When my sifu or sigung visits or they visit them, that's what they will hear. If I were teaching a MA that was not traditional, I wouldn't use another language or if my teacher said not, I wouldn't. Otherwise they learn like I learn.
ok ,So how dose this help me develop and understand learning the above sequence of movements?



2) For the names & technical items related directly to a technique, yes. I don't speak Cantonese except for what is used in CLF.
Oh and why not?, is that not apart of your system,http://martialtalk.com/forum/images/icons/icon12.gif So you label techniques or movements in Cantonese, to give the impression that the material being taught is Authentic?



But think about it this... if you walked into a place claiming to teachTCMA & all they do is speak English, wouldn't you wonder just a little about what they
taught?
Yet use English to make corrections , WHY?


It gives them more to think about than step, block, punch, kick, etc... When I call out "Hak Wu Jin Chi", they know to perform a certain motion a certain way. When I say let's do 30 Sow Choy's, they know what punch to do & when they hear Sam Sup, they stop. It gives them a small peek into a different culture that may inspire them to bigger things. Then again it may just be a mental exercise, who's to say?Oh, and why would a student need to think any more about a block, puch. kick,in Cantonese, when they should be concerned with understanding the movement and assosiated dynamics, so basically you are just labeling in Cantonese.

When concerned with martial arts and Instruction, I fall to see how learning the labeling of movements in a foreign language, helps the student perform their material, any better then those of a native language to the land. Remembering that most students that study an art that is foreign Basically only learn basic commands many fail to learn Language in full regardless of origin.


Cheers HAMMER

[clfsean]

No probs,!

Could you please explain the benifit of,"Churng Sum Toi Churng Sum Jeurng Chop Choy"as opposed to "Outside crescent kick, horizontal palm strike, punch"

I think I did previously.



ok ,So how dose this help me develop and understand learning the above sequence of movements?
It doesn't. Practice does that, but when you hear the tachnique you're able to do it.



Oh and why not?, is that not apart of your system,http://martialtalk.com/forum/images/icons/icon12.gif So you label techniques or movements in Cantonese, to give the impression that the material being taught is Authentic?
No the material is authentic. The skill is authentic. I was taught the Cantonese name for the techniqes & that's what I hear in class, therefore, that's what I pass on. If I walk into an Aikido dojo, I expect to hear techniques, exercises, drills, etc... being handled in Japanese. Same with a CMA school, I expect to hear Cantonese or Mandarin. In an Arnis or Escrima school, I'd expect to hear a fair amount of Tagalog referring to the same things.



Yet use English to make corrections , WHY?
Because English is lingua franca for communication, but Cantonese is language for techniques/drills/sets/exercises/etc... in the class. Period.



Oh, and why would a student need to think any more about a block, puch. kick,in Cantonese, when they should be concerned with understanding the movement and assosiated dynamics, so basically you are just labeling in Cantonese.
Because there's more to the motions than just the motions. Why does kenpo use all these poetic names & stuff to describe a set or series or motions or movements? Wouldn't it be just as easy for y'all to say "Step to the side & hit him 3 times"???



When concerned with martial arts and Instruction, I fall to see how learning the labeling of movements in a foreign language, helps the student perform their material, any better then those of a native language to the land. Remembering that most students that study an art that is foreign Basically only learn basic commands many fail to learn Language in full regardless of origin.

Well I'm sorry if you don't see it. I honestly wasn't asking for validation. The topic was posted, I answered & gave my reasons. It comes in useful for Lion Dancing, for the MA itself, to help understand when there are visitors that don't speak English (any or otherwise) when they describe certain techniques as they apply to what we do. If you don't, that's cool.

You practice an American MA, you should speak English in it. There's also a little specialized sub-language related to kenpo you speak as well. I don't. I practice a Traditional Chinese Martial Art from Southern China & as such, pieces & parts are handled in Cantonese.

[hammer]

clfsean,

All good, just wanted to explore your thoughts and comments a little further.
Thanks for the positive exchange.

Cheers
Hammer

[clfsean]

God my spelling is off today... must infuse more caffine into the blood stream.

Hammer... right on.

[TimoS]

Ah, this debate once again... Ok, I'll give my views on this. In my opinion you should use the terminology of the arts original language. It is easier for you living in english speaking country, but consider this. I'm living in Finland so my primary language is of course finnish, a language only very few people outside Finland speak. I'm working in a big international company and we have our own karate club, so we have students who don't speak finnish. Should we use only finnish terms then ? How about somebody from another country who has prior experience in another karate style that was taught in, let's say spanish. He would then come train with us and whoever was teaching at the time would "sivupotku" ("sidekick"). What do you think his reaction would be ? Now compare it with the situation where at both places the techniques have been taught in japanese and the instructor were to say "sokutogeri". Which way do you think it would be faster for the newcomer to learn ?`

Or the case when we have visiting instructors from Japan. In which language should they teach ? Should we demand that they must speak finnish ?

Still another point: kata names. Should we come up with our translations for the names ?

Or how about if somebody from Finland moves to another country and starts teaching there. Should he/she then translate the terms to that specific country ? How about if the country has more than one official language ? How about if he/she doesn't yet speak the language ?

[The Kai]

If you demonstrate a side kick he should get it, regardless of the language.


If you move to a different country, would you not have to learn thier language any way?? Or do you think the entire society will say "He's a karate guy, he does'nt need to speak our language!"

If I were to run a football camp in spain, I'd better come up with some spanish-quick. Do they teach soccer camps in the USA in german?

The Kata names are more fluent in the origianl usage. saying Peacful Mind number 4 does'nt have that ring to it

[TimoS]

The Kata names are more fluent in the origianl usage. saying Peacful Mind number 4 does'nt have that ring to it

If you "must" teach in english, why stop at kata names ? Go all the way :)

[The Kai]

Sure! And while I'm at it I will use mechanized horseless carriage, soft paper facial wipes, wireless broadcast television
In any language ther are descriptive words/phrases that are commonly used for convience

[clfsean]

Convenience doesn't translate to tradition...

We're gonna have to agree to disagree on this one...

[The Kai]

So.. tradition is the chinese speaking thier native tongue when teaching and not using the root language of india (I'm sorry I'm completely ignorant of the Indian langauge). And then the american (or whomever) using chinese language? Why did the tradition stagnate once it got to out shores??

[clfsean]

So.. tradition is the chinese speaking thier native tongue when teaching and not using the root language of india (I'm sorry I'm completely ignorant of the Indian langauge). And then the american (or whomever) using chinese language? Why did the tradition stagnate once it got to out shores??
Where did India come from in this? If you're referring to Shaolin in Henan... Damo is just about relegated to legend only with MA. There were martial arts in the area before the temple was even built for Ba-tuo.

The Americans using the Chinese language? Who are you referring to there? Until recently (20-30 years +/-) there haven't been a "bunch" of Americans teaching TCMA. For the ones that have been around for a long time, I can't presume to know why they did or didn't continue to use Chinese in their schools. I can guess why, but being unfounded, I'll keep possibly inflammatory assumptions to myself.

My sifu's teachers both spoke in Cantonese when teaching... one in Tennesse & one in San Fran for the same things I've already discussed. Both teach TCMA & both used Cantonese for class. My sifu does, I do. If stops, I'll stop. I teach under his banner.

[The Kai]

Even as the idea that Buddha (or any one person brought the art over) there was a connection between Varja mukti and the Kung fu arts.

you can also, with a few changes insert karate, te or TKD why did the tradition of speaking your own language dissapt when it gets to the ol' USA?

As a odd question are the traditions of the arts found only in the trappings, or in the function??

[clfsean]

Good question but for us, function.

Why the "Osu" in your sig? Trapping or Function? Why Japanese? Why not the English equivilent?

;-)

[The Kai]

The "Osu" is shorthand for train harder... Kinda like yelling Gerinimo when jumpinh out of a airplane


So you expalin, correct and offer analysis in english, but don't fell like your are teaching unless you are barely comprehensible in two languages??

[VSanhodo]

[QUOTE=The Kai]The "Osu" is shorthand for train harder... Kinda like yelling Gerinimo when jumpinh out of a airplane


When I was in the military I used to have t jump out of perfectly good airplanes all the time. Igot to where I enjoyed it but when I first started I never not even once said Gerinimo, It was usually Ooooooo **** or I dont care if you do out rank me you cant make me go, Which was usually followed by a boot. God it only took several hundred jumps before I stopped wetting my pants. I did get to enjoy it but I swear on a pucker facotr of 1 - 10 skydiving is about a 19.

Take care

San

[clfsean]

*sigh*

I'm very easy to comprehend. My grammar & speaking skills are quite good, along with my teaching skills. I use Chinese in my class, as my sifu does and as his does. I've outlined my reasons for doing that. Take it or leave it either. It is what is & is not going to change.

I teach & study a Chinese martial art. There are Chinese trappings through out the art here in America. We dress for class as they still do in Southern China (school t-shirt, pants). We lion dance as they still do in Southern China. We have direct links to Southern China so we tend to maintain that appearance. It's in line with what we do.

You don't. So for that I don't expect you to understand.

As earlier, we are going to have to agree to disagree.

[BlackCatBonz]

[QUOTE=The Kai]The "Osu" is shorthand for train harder... Kinda like yelling Gerinimo when jumpinh out of a airplane


So you expalin, correct and offer analysis in english, but don't fell like your are teaching unless you are barely comprehensible in two languages??/QUOTE]

i dont think that everyone that teaches martial arts is entirely ignorant of the native language that their particular art is taught in. timos makes the best point for this argument. on the other hand......if you're investing the time into learning how to kick someone's a$$......couldnt you invest a little time and effort into learning a bit about the language and culture of the art you study? i dont think that's a lot to ask. most north american people have this "me first , who gives a crap about anyone else" attitude and it makes me laugh.
so when a famous teacher comes from japan or china to teach, do you say, "speak in english, pal....we dont do none o' that foreign talking"

[The Kai]

[QUOTE=The Kai]The "Osu" is shorthand for train harder... Kinda like yelling Gerinimo when jumpinh out of a airplane


So you expalin, correct and offer analysis in english, but don't fell like your are teaching unless you are barely comprehensible in two languages??/QUOTE]

i dont think that everyone that teaches martial arts is entirely ignorant of the native language that their particular art is taught in. timos makes the best point for this argument. on the other hand......if you're investing the time into learning how to kick someone's a$$......couldnt you invest a little time and effort into learning a bit about the language and culture of the art you study? i dont think that's a lot to ask. most north american people have this "me first , who gives a crap about anyone else" attitude and it makes me laugh.
so when a famous teacher comes from japan or china to teach, do you say, "speak in english, pal....we dont do none o' that foreign talking"
So when the japanese imported the sport of baseball, they kept it as american as possible?? They refused to play the game any different, all learned english.

Why is it so out of hand to expect a teacher that comes to america to teach learn to speak american?? If I take a college class about oriental philosophy, do I firat need to learn the oriental language. Why would you not expect some one who works, lives and socializes in the us-not to speal the lingo?? After all if I went to India or France I would brush up on the appriatelanguage-it's called cultural assimulation!

is there any function to not speaking english, is still a question

[Makalakumu]

Most westeren martial artists that try to teach in Japanese just end up butchering it badly. Missusing words, misspronouncing words, misinterpreting ideas.

Speak the language that everyone in the room is most fluent in, makes things so much clearer.
This is very true, but I still use korean terminology in class...

I learned how true it was when I actually trained with native Koreans....(btw they couldn't speak any english). They laughed so hard and I had to laugh because I must have looked so stupid.

Then we put on the gear and sparred...afterward we sat down and worked on correcting my pronounciation. I was encouraged to keep trying...

So I do.

[The Kai]

This is very true, but I still use korean terminology in class...

I learned how true it was when I actually trained with native Koreans....(btw they couldn't speak any english). They laughed so hard and I had to laugh because I must have looked so stupid.

Then we put on the gear and sparred...afterward we sat down and worked on correcting my pronounciation. I was encouraged to keep trying...

So I do.
Did you try to teach them how to speak the american tongue? Maybe to ease thier assimulation into america. Maybe with a little encouragement they could be fluent in the langauge of the country they CHOSE to live in!!

Is it me but isn't it absurd to sit in the middle of a english speaking country, yet you don't speak the right language??

[clfsean]

Did you try to teach them how to speak the american tongue? Maybe to ease thier assimulation into america. Maybe with a little encouragement they could be fluent in the langauge of the country they CHOSE to live in!!

Is it me but isn't it absurd to sit in the middle of a english speaking country, yet you don't speak the right language??
It's you...

Maybe he did try to help with English, maybe he didn't. But he went to a TKD school (Korean MA)... trained with Koreans (Korean)... don't you think he'd hear a little Hangul spoken?? what better time to get it corrected than by working with a native speaker!

Let me ask you... when you go to a Mexican restaurant, do you say "Gimme one of those rolled things with beef & cheese in it" or "burrito"? How about Italian... "flat noodles with the white cream sauce" or "fettucini Alfredo"?

You can't have it both ways. Either use the language & terminology where appropriate (MA school perhaps) or even required (restaurant or other establishment), or don't use anything but American English from today forward, eschewing all foreign influence in our country to stand by the thought "You're in America, speak American"...

Whichever you decide is fine, but lay off those who choose to use the language of country where our MAs came from. Not everybody wants to study an American MA... so not all of us speak English in them exclusively.

I'm done with this silly, stupid arguement.

[TimoS]

Why is it so out of hand to expect a teacher that comes to america to teach learn to speak american??

Also someone who is only visiting for maybe a week ?

[TimoS]

I'm done with this silly, stupid arguement.

Nothing new has been said in this argument, so yeah, I'm done too

[The Kai]

It's you...

Maybe he did try to help with English, maybe he didn't. But he went to a TKD school (Korean MA)... trained with Koreans (Korean)... don't you think he'd hear a little Hangul spoken?? what better time to get it corrected than by working with a native speaker!

Let me ask you... when you go to a Mexican restaurant, do you say "Gimme one of those rolled things with beef & cheese in it" or "burrito"? How about Italian... "flat noodles with the white cream sauce" or "fettucini Alfredo"?

You can't have it both ways. Either use the language & terminology where appropriate (MA school perhaps) or even required (restaurant or other establishment), or don't use anything but American English from today forward, eschewing all foreign influence in our country to stand by the thought "You're in America, speak American"...

Whichever you decide is fine, but lay off those who choose to use the language of country where our MAs came from. Not everybody wants to study an American MA... so not all of us speak English in them exclusively.

I'm done with this silly, stupid arguement.Ordering a burrito is one mexican word, that hardly comprises speaking the tongue!!

So when you teach, correct or analizt you use english to coomunicate to be clear. yet you speak chinese in order to be authentic
Like i said upnorth story were the korean using japanese terminolgy? No. But is'nt that the tradition

I'm sorry but I see zero advantage to teaching in Chinese or Korean,Japanese

[Makalakumu]

The group of Koreans that I trained with was only stateside for a short time. In order to communicate we had to learn each other's language. They said "Ahp Cha Gi" and I did a front kick. I said "Front Kick" and did a front kick. We worked together. In the end, my persistance with the Korean tongue impressed them. They were honored that an American (and there are lots of stereotypes in Korea about us) would honor the place of origin of their art. I still use the language of origin even though I still mess it up because of that.

Also, I have found that some techniques/concepts just don't translate nicely.

[The Kai]

The group of Koreans that I trained with was only stateside for a short time. In order to communicate we had to learn each other's language. They said "Ahp Cha Gi" and I did a front kick. I said "Front Kick" and did a front kick. We worked together. In the end, my persistance with the Korean tongue impressed them. They were honored that an American (and there are lots of stereotypes in Korea about us) would honor the place of origin of their art. I still use the language of origin even though I still mess it up because of that.

Also, I have found that some techniques/concepts just don't translate nicely.
Sure in situation whereas a person that does not going to speak the tongue, will only be around a short time there probably would'nt be time to get fluent. I was talking more long term

When you say some techniques/concepts don't translate well, I assume that you are totally fluent in the Korean language, writing and then you give your students 2-3 years of language lessons.

What concepts or technique would be so hard to say in english? I for one did not realize how damn simple the english language was!! I suppose to the average oriental, we americans communicate with a sophisticated series of grunts and whistles. No wonder we must learn thier language to understand the art!

[Matt Anderson]

I practice and teach the martial arts of renaissance Europe. Most of what we do originated in what is now Germany and Italy, taught and written about by masters in those areas. I teach in English (I'm not fluent in German or Italian) but always use the German or Italian names for techniques as well, just to relate them to the original teachings and put them in historical context.

[BlackCatBonz]

Ordering a burrito is one mexican word, that hardly comprises speaking the tongue!!

So when you teach, correct or analizt you use english to coomunicate to be clear. yet you speak chinese in order to be authentic
Like i said upnorth story were the korean using japanese terminolgy? No. But is'nt that the tradition

I'm sorry but I see zero advantage to teaching in Chinese or Korean,Japanese
because that would mean learning something new?

[Loki]

I think it's hard enough learning a style as it is without having to learn another language along the way. That's one of the things that turned me off Kendo, learning all those commands in Japanese.

It's also a matter of what you want from martial arts. If you want culture in addition to physical skill, maybe it's a good idea. But if you want to learn how to defend yourself, seems to me like it slows everything down. I personally would eventually get annoyed that my instructor insists on speaking to me in a language I don't understand.

It'd be funny to see Krav Maga taught in America in Hebrew. Let's see how fast spreading it'd be then!

~ Loki

[Rick Wade]

Shihan Bobby Lowe (http://www.kenponet.com/flame/whoswho/whoswho/bobby_lowe.html) said you know why they teach in Japanese in Japan because that’s where they live. I have had the privilege of visiting with Shihan Lowe and he runs a very hard class and is as tough as they come. He teaches in English because he lives in Hawaii. And this is one of the few men well let me quote Kenponet “Mas Oyama invited Bobby Lowe to Tokyo to train with him and Bobby Lowe did for over a year and a half. In this way Shihan Bobby Lowe became the first "uchi-deshi" of Kyokushin, a tradition that later grew to be known as the "Wakajishi" or Young Lions of Mas Oyama, where a select few are chosen each year to devote themselves to Karate for one thousand days. The first "School of Oyama" outside Japan was opened in 1957 by Shihan Bobby Lowe in Hawaii.”

V/R

Rick English

[Drifter]

Having studied American Kenpo, I can't say I've had any experience with being taught in another language. Language classes in school (English, Spanish, and German) are my favorite classes. When I am trying to learn methods of self-defense though, my goal is to learn the technique to the best of my ability, not to learn another language. I can see where if a person is learning a Traditional Martial Art, a large part of that would be learning the culture, and language is a part of it. If they go into it wanting to learn it for tradition's sake, then by all means, let them learn in another language. I learn for self-defense, so what I'm looking for might be a little different. It depends on what the goal of study is.

[The Kai]

because that would mean learning something new?
Are you referring to the student or the teacher? Isn't it a teacher responsibility to communicate clearly??

How long are we going to have the missuse of titles, pidgen asian languages all because we want to look more authentic??
If we talk in a language, explain in that language the oriental language is cermoninal