Dog Attacks.

[arnisador]

In another thread (http://www.martialtalk.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=31056#post31056) the issue of dog attacks was brought up. I've seen some bizarre suggestions for them elsewhwhere. My uncle, as a brown belt, once stopped one with afront kick to the throat. My brother-in-law, who for a great many years has been an animal control officer, says it's tough, there's no one trick, but remember that in all likelihood someone taught that dog "No" or "Bad dog!" at some point in it's life and that's worth a try--but don't count on it by any means.

Any thoughts?

[Danny]

My Mom was telling me the over day that once before I was born her and my Dad were going for a walk when this huge dog came charging at them barking, and bearing it teeth. Apprently my Dad just waited until it got close and claimly proceeded to kick it as hard as he could. The dog ran away with it's tail between it's legs.

That would be my suggestion.

[islandtime]

Originally posted by arnisador

In another thread (http://www.martialtalk.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=31056#post31056) the issue of dog attacks was brought up. I've seen some bizarre suggestions for them elsewhwhere. My uncle, as a brown belt, once stopped one with afront kick to the throat. My brother-in-law, who for a great many years has been an animal control officer, says it's tough, there's no one trick, but remember that in all likelihood someone taught that dog "No" or "Bad dog!" at some point in it's life and that's worth a try--but don't count on it by any means.

Any thoughts?
.................................................. ............................................
Being a semi-pro road bicycle racer and triathlete for years.. you have no idea how many dogs have come after me.. Running and cycling is like a moveable feast for dogs of all sizes..

You are right about the "bad dog" ...I have used this many times and it usually works..if not,..
I usually carry an ultrasonic hand held now. This is the same kind sold to the USPS and works fine on all dogs that can hear worth a darn .
Usually keeping a handfull of gravel is mostly a deterrent when I run if I am not carrying the ultrasonic..

I have had to kick a dog or two in the past . The throat/nose or the crotch can work just like real guys...


Gene Gabel:asian:

[RyuShiKan]

Originally posted by arnisador

but remember that in all likelihood someone taught that dog "No" or "Bad dog!" at some point in it's life and that's worth a try--but don't count on it by any means.

Any thoughts?



That is why my brother in law taught his 2 Ruttwielers (sp?) "Leave it" instead of "no"

[sweeper]

yeah, point to where ever they came from and yell "go home" pocket of gravel also.. my instructor told me he used to cary one of his hardwood kali sticks when running for dogs.. that probably worked. I have never come across a pair of rutwielers though.. that would just suck.. maybe make a break for the nearest tree and hope I get up it before they get my leg??

[RyuShiKan]

Each one of his dogs weighs at least 140lbs..........my sons used to ride them like horses.
Nice dogs to family members but it "sucks to be you" if your not.

[DWright]

The gravel is a great idea, but if you can't reach gravel, a small handful of pocket change works the same way. A couple bucks work of change beat the alternative.

The toughest dog I ever met was a pitbull. He was trained to attack anything that moved in his owners drug grow operation.
That dog took three well placed .45 rounds from my sgt, and died making a leap to bite him.

The yelling "no" or go home, has prompted a large group of dog trainers in Oregon to train in only hand signs, and german commands. Even my Cocker Spainiel is trained in German.

[islandtime]

Originally posted by DWright

[B. Even my Cocker Spainiel is trained in German. [/B]
.................................................. ...................................

A Cocker Spaniel trained in German is somehow more frightening to me than the pit bull stories... Don't tell us it has SS Tattoo on it also:D



Gene Gabel

[RyuShiKan]

If you had a Chihuahua would you train it in Spanish? ;)

[islandtime]

Originally posted by RyuShiKan

If you had a Chihuahua would you train it in Spanish? ;)

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>..
I have a Basenji... would that be in Egyptian or African.??...as if he would listen anyway:D


Gene Gabel

[chufeng]

When I was much younger, I had a paper route...dogs coming after me were a fact of life...

After barely out-running a german shepherd on my bicycle, my dad suggested a squirt gun filled with ammonia...one or two sprays into the nose or eyes and the dog quickly forgets about you ;)

:asian:
chufeng

[GouRonin]

Originally posted by DWright
The toughest dog I ever met was a pitbull. He was trained to attack anything that moved in his owners drug grow operation.
That dog took three well placed .45 rounds from my sgt, and died making a leap to bite him.

This is the very same reason that I do not believe that police should be allowed to use Dogs on suspects except in extreme or proper cases. Once unleashed the level of control is lost. No matter what they say. While I think that dogs make a great policing tool they are often misused.

Case in point. Again, I was watching REALTV, when a suspect refused to get out a car they sent in a police dog despite the fact the person was unarmed. The dog had to be pulled off the suspect by 2 cops and came away with half the guy's arm/shirt. The suspect was not charged with anything but was told, "Too bad, soo sad, you should have listened." IMHO, that was unjustified. Luckily they sued and won a chunk of money because of overuse of force by an officer.

Which brings me to my next point. They should not refer to police dogs as officers. They are police eqiupment. I know of a Silat teacher who had a student that had a police dog set upon her at a sit in protest. In defending herself from the "officer" she bit it on the nose and started to choke it. She was charged with assaulting a police officer. She countered with overuse of force by an "officer."

An officer in that situation would have merely dragged the non-violent protester away. The dog attacked. The problem is that most police do not use dogs in proper fashion for which the are used. Sure, suspect on the run and escape. I can see that. The dogs are trained to run down and immobilize.

I am all for dogs being used on the police force but in a realistic and prescribed manner with policy and proceedure citing that the handler of the dog be responsible for it's actions.

[girlychuks]

I was jogging and this huge german sheperd- (owned by a brainless family of Goths that do nothing but sit around and watch others work)- ran up to me, doing the whole barking/ jaw baring act. I got into a cat stance and kiaid at the *****er. He put his tail between his legs and booked.

if he had come any closer, I would have kicked or clubbed his nose with my walkman.

Two good points to remember-

Dogs have a radial nerve that runs down the side of their ribcage. Aim a good hard kick at the side of the ribs- halfway up and halfway to the abdomen- will make almost any dog back down. Occasionally it will also cause a temporary foreleg paralysis.

Any good hard direct hit to the bridge of the nose will alos temporarly blind or stun a dog. Doesn't work on short nosed dogs like bulldogs or boxers though.

Before you accuse me of animal cruelty, just know that I work at a vet college and LOVE dogs. However, I believe that *all* companion animals must *not* be a danger to the public. I believe that is a basic responsibilty of pet ownership.

Biting a burglar's or attacker's ass on home territory is one thing. Going across the street to chase a bicyclist, kid, or jogger is another thing entirely.

[fist of fury]

Originally posted by girlychuks

I was jogging and this huge german sheperd- (owned by a brainless family of Goths that do nothing but sit around and watch others work)- ran up to me, doing the whole barking/ jaw baring act. I got into a cat stance and kiaid at the *****er. He put his tail between his legs and booked.

if he had come any closer, I would have kicked or clubbed his nose with my walkman.

Two good points to remember-

Dogs have a radial nerve that runs down the side of their ribcage. Aim a good hard kick at the side of the ribs- halfway up and halfway to the abdomen- will make almost any dog back down. Occasionally it will also cause a temporary foreleg paralysis.

Any good hard direct hit to the bridge of the nose will alos temporarly blind or stun a dog. Doesn't work on short nosed dogs like bulldogs or boxers though.

Before you accuse me of animal cruelty, just know that I work at a vet college and LOVE dogs. However, I believe that *all* companion animals must *not* be a danger to the public. I believe that is a basic responsibilty of pet ownership.

Biting a burglar's or attacker's ass on home territory is one thing. Going across the street to chase a bicyclist, kid, or jogger is another thing entirely.
Agreed most of the problems with dogs today is because of the stupidity of the owners and the dogs have to suffer because of it.

[big351stang]

remember dogs can tast fear. its sends them into over drive. dont show any fear and if you really want to shock them, throw your arms up and bark back at them even louder. that will freek them out and they will usually run.
if a dog does bite you you can push what ever it is that they bit, and arm for example, back into the back of their mouth. they do not have as much power inthe back of their jaw and cant bite as hard. then you can hit them or what ever you need to do.

[Seig]

but giving them food is usually a better distraction.

[Turner]

Don't rely on the spray bottle full of ammonia to work. I've had troubles with a stray dog hanging around my house and being a general terror anytime I went out doors and I was given the advice to use a squirt gun or a spray bottle and shoot ammonia in the dogs eyes. I tried it and the dog ran off a little ways and then ran right back in. The ammonia didn't faze it in the least.

I do a lot of running and biking, when the opportunity presents itself, so I've had plenty of run ins with dogs. Mostly, I ignore them. I make sure that I know where they are at all times, but I just continue on as before. In most instances the dog will chase you to a certain point barking up a storm and then will leave you alone. Or perhaps it will quiet down and just run along behind you until a certain point and then will leave you alone. If you hear a dog barking at you, then you are pretty safe. For a dog, barking is just trying to get attention. "I see you and I'm calling for reinforcements (other dogs or alerting its owner) so you better get out of here." When it starts to growl, you better pay attention because the growl means "Hey buddy, reinforcements aren't coming, you've crossed the line and I'm gonna have to protect myself, my territory and anything else I'm loyal to!" and when it starts growling you should probably play rewind and reverse what-ever action you took to get it to growl, unless you HAVE to go forward and then you better be prepared to beat the dog down.

I've only been bitten by a dog once. I was in first grade, so i was extremely young and naive and one of my 'enemies' pretended to be friendly and invited me to pet the dog. He went and petted it and so I followed his lead and ignored the dogs barking, then growling. The dog grabbed my by the armpit and flung me to the ground and somehow I managed to crawl or scoot out of its area. I don't remember much about that. I've faced some pretty viscious dogs who were known biters and I've never been bitten after that, so its worked for me. I won't say that I'm right because I am not one of those pet psychics or a pet psychologist and know what is going on in its head.

[arnisador]

Originally posted by Turner

Don't rely on the spray bottle full of ammonia to work. I've had troubles with a stray dog hanging around my house and being a general terror anytime I went out doors and I was given the advice to use a squirt gun or a spray bottle and shoot ammonia in the dogs eyes. I tried it and the dog ran off a little ways and then ran right back in. The ammonia didn't faze it in the least.


I've heard the advice to use a spray bottle of cat urine--they hate smelling like cats.

[theneuhauser]

just show that dog your ready stance, he probably didnt realize that youre a martial artist.:p

[GouRonin]

Originally posted by big351stang
remember dogs can tast fear. its sends them into over drive. dont show any fear and if you really want to shock them, throw your arms up and bark back at them even louder. that will freek them out and they will usually run.
if a dog does bite you you can push what ever it is that they bit, and arm for example, back into the back of their mouth. they do not have as much power inthe back of their jaw and cant bite as hard. then you can hit them or what ever you need to do.

This is the worst advice I ever heard. Congratulations. You have entered into race for worst advice ever.

Arnisador...I can't even begin to explain why this guy is wrong.

[arnisador]

Originally posted by GouRonin

Arnisador...I can't even begin to explain why this guy is wrong.

Right or wrong, it is all commonly given advice for animal attacks--waive your arms to appear bigger, make noice. I wouldn't get into a barking war though as it's apt to rile them up further I'd think.

I've heard the push-your-arm-far-back-in-th-mouth and the hit-'em-on-the-snout advice before too.

[FUZZYJ692000]

Okay, where I live at people tend to drop dogs off that they don't want anymore so we tend to have some that travel in packs. I've known 3 people that have been attacked by these packs and some single strays. Yelling...normally doesn't work-especially if they're not travelling alone. Couple years ago I was walking with my a friend when 2 strays tried to attack us....her dog coward behind her (real good protector) and luckily there was a really big stick and rock near by. Lucky for us I have good aiming. After that she started carrying a baseball bat if there was word that there was a pack terrorizing the area. My advice if a dog is approaching you and is getting ready to attack, think quick and grab something big and hard to throw or hit it with, cause you're not going to out run it.

[Aikikitty]

I've heard that saying "no" and "Go home" works but I've never heard of "being loud" or "making yourself seem bigger". Wouldn't that just panic the dog more. I thought that was just for bears. I've also heard to never run away because the dogs instinct will kick in to chase down their prey or something like that. Surely there must be a time to run, right? :confused: A few days ago, I was babysitting and as soon as I put the kid to bed, I became a stranger in the house to the family's yellow Labrador. The dog growled at me and he seemed to just get more fierce when I tried to talk soothingly to it so I just went into another part of the house and left it alone. Dumb dog. :mad:

Robyn :lookie:

[chufeng]

Turner,

That little bit of time...when the dog backs off...that's when you run like crazy...

Are you nuts??? Standing there to see what effect your ammonia had on the dog???

Run, man, run...


Then, the dog isn't really hurt, and neither are you...

Oh, btw, I do believe that the Shaolin monks had one thing right...when you can avoid harming another, that is the best course.

:asian:
chufeng

[ECYili]

I've heard a few things.

This one takes some guts but heard from couple of folks including my brother who's very knowledgable about these sort of things. But if the dog is running at you try running at it. When the dog starts after you it has predermined in it's mind the distance and time it's going to take to get to you. By running or moving into him it basically throws off it's timing. I did something like this once while training this big boxer start galloping towrds me and I stepped towards him, pointed at it and told him not even think about it and the dog ran off.
I've also heard that if the dog does managed to get ahold of you arm or hand is to ram it down it's throat as far as you can. This will basically gag him. I would rather sacrifice an cut up arm or hand then to be possibly killed.
The other my father actually had to use one. Now granted he's a pretty strong guy but the dog got him on the arm. He was able to get behind it and he took his other hand and put it and the dogs nose and pushed into the dogs chest as hard and as far as it would go. This actually started to choke the dog and his instinct to live overided what ever else it was trying to do. Again I would sacrifice my arm then to be possibly mauled to death.

Just some thougts

Dan

[GouRonin]

:wah: :waah: :vu:

[ECYili]

How about adding something constructive to this topic instead of snide comments and bad manners.

Dan

[GouRonin]

Originally posted by ECYili
How about adding something constructive to this topic instead of snide comments and bad manners.
Dan

Sure, right after you kiss my @ss.

Cheers!

:D

[ECYili]

Geesh, it feels like I'm back in the 4th grade again. What a shame when adults have to act like children. Truly saddened with what martial arts are teaching people now-a-days :(

[GouRonin]

Originally posted by ECYili
Truly saddened with what martial arts are teaching people now-a-days

I blame the McDojos that pump this false image of an enlightened state of being from stuying martial arts into people's heads.

Of course I think that the idea that we'll all get along because people do martial arts is a load of crud too. It's not like you're practicing to hug and sing folks songs while holding hands.

As a friend of mine once said. "You put a bunch of martial artists in a room together and a fight breaks out...quelle surprise."

Actually, I'd be more surprised if it didn't.

[ECYili]

not sure what your getting at. Are you saying that you practice martial arts only to get in fights and hurt people? Can you clarify for me?

[RyuShiKan]

Originally posted by GouRonin



I blame the McDojos that pump this false image of an enlightened state of being from stuying martial arts into people's heads.


I blame any art that doesn't teach it's students proper respect.............not just a McDojo.




Originally posted by GouRonin


Of course I think that the idea that we'll all get along because people do martial arts is a load of crud too.

One of the main reasons why courtesy is stressed in the martial arts is so people don't get pissed off and kill each other over petty crap.



Originally posted by GouRonin

It's not like you're practicing to hug and sing folks songs while holding hands.


This is true, but it also doesn't give someone a license to act like a jerk either.

[RyuShiKan]

Originally posted by GouRonin


As a friend of mine once said. "You put a bunch of martial artists in a room together and a fight breaks out...quelle surprise."



I think if you put a bunch of "hot heads" in a room that think they have something to prove I am sure a fight will break out.

You put skilled people in a room and they may or may not like each other but I doubt they will fight unless outright physically attacked.

Speaking of attacks.........get back to the Dog attack stuff.

[ECYili]

My thoughts exactly Ryu

A great book to read if you want to see how a martial artist is supposed to be is Karate-Do "My of Life" by Gichin Funakoshi (sp) It will only take you about a half a day to read but it's great.


Ryu. Are you the gentalmen that trained with Oyata Sensei that my fellow stylist Matt Stone trains with? If so make sure you whip up on him a little more just for me ha ha ha ha

Dan

[GouRonin]

Originally posted by ECYili
not sure what your getting at. Are you saying that you practice martial arts only to get in fights and hurt people? Can you clarify for me?

I'm saying that the reasons that I study martial arts might be very different than the ones you study them for, so don't expect me to live up to the vision you have.

[GouRonin]

Originally posted by RyuShiKan
I think if you put a bunch of "hot heads" in a room that think they have something to prove I am sure a fight will break out.
You put skilled people in a room and they may or may not like each other but I doubt they will fight unless outright physically attacked.

Hey, believe that if you want. I think you're wrong.

[RyuShiKan]

Originally posted by ECYili


My thoughts exactly Ryu

A great book to read if you want to see how a martial artist is supposed to be is Karate-Do "My of Life" by Gichin Funakoshi (sp) It will only take you about a half a day to read but it's great.


Another one is "RyuTe no Michi"..........it can be found on my website if you go to either the Book Review Section or the Tapes and Books link.




Originally posted by ECYili

Ryu. Are you the gentalmen that trained with Oyata Sensei that my fellow stylist Matt Stone trains with? If so make sure you whip up on him a little more just for me ha ha ha ha

Dan

Will do. ;)

[GouRonin]

Originally posted by ECYili
A great book to read if you want to see how a martial artist is supposed to be is Karate-Do "My of Life" by Gichin Funakoshi (sp) It will only take you about a half a day to read but it's great.

Is IS a good book. It's a book written by one man and his point of view. It does NOT mean that this is what a martial artists is supposed to be like. You just happen to agree with him.

[Matt Stone]

Well, there is, in addition to the "hotheads" issue, the additional "my pissing range is longer than yours" issue...

When juvenile young boys (regardless of age - I have met "boys" that were in their 30s) get together and can't manage to let others know where they stand without being rude, amateurish, peurile and other really big words that mean child-like :D, then things like that happen...

First thing you are supposed to learn in martial arts is how to bow. Not because you are trying to absorb asian culture, not because it is tradition. Because with great power comes responsibility. One of those responsibilities is to not use your super-powers for evil :D. The only way to avoid that mess is to cultivate humility.

Hard to earn an ass kicking from someone that won't get pissy no matter what kind of puke you might be...

Just my 2 yen...

As for the dog issue, over the years I have used several of the methods mentioned above - yelling, waving my arms, talking soothingly, commands ("go home," "bad dog," etc.), and running like mad. All have had mixed results. Used to have a neighbor with a rather bad tempered Doby as a pet/guard animal. It used to try to jump me pretty regularly. It was growling at me pretty fiercely, baring its teeth - so I did it right back (I was in junior high, so don't comment on how stupid this was - like I knew better!). Amazingly, the dog seemed so confused by this, his ears pricked up and he looked a little surprised, then snuck off to his dog house... Left me alone completely after that...

Gambatte.

:samurai: :samurai:

[GouRonin]

Originally posted by Yiliquan1
First thing you are supposed to learn in martial arts is how to bow. Not because you are trying to absorb asian culture, not because it is tradition. Because with great power comes responsibility. One of those responsibilities is to not use your super-powers for evil. The only way to avoid that mess is to cultivate humility.

Again these are your opinions of what is supposed to happen. These are things that you believe in. I'm not saying they are right or wrong. Just that there are those who hold different opinions and they are just as right and wrong as yours are.


Originally posted by Yiliquan1
As for the dog issue, over the years I have used several of the methods mentioned above. All have had mixed results.

Bingo.

I stated earlier that there is no set method of dealing with dogs etc and it's dangerous to start throwing out urban legends that you have heard because you think they might work.

I once had a dog bite me and hold on. No matter what I did it wouldn't let go until I headbutted it and it let go and stumbled back stunned long enough for me get away. I would not start to tell people that this is foolproof way to deal with dogs.

This thread would be better served by perhaps sharing experiences of what did work and what did not and then stating that this may or may not work. Not what old Bob down at the stip mall dojo told you would work.

[ECYili]

Your right about one thing Gou, everyone is entitled to their own "truths", "ideals" or "reasons". But you gotta remember when you put yourself out there in the public, be it the internet or just walking down the street. You represent and portray what kind of human being you are, your instructor-what he teaches and indirectly what type a person he is, your style and finally martial arts and artists in general. If you come across and cockey, arogant, ill-tempered and imature to a complete stranger that's what impression they will have on the above list. Likewise when you visit forums such as this one.
I do give you credit for haveing the courage neccesary to stick to your beliefs. Alot of people don't really know where they stand on issues let alone stand up for them.

Happy trainning

Dan

[RyuShiKan]

A karate teacher friend of mine down in Okinawa was attacked by a German Shepard several years ago.
He saw the dog jump for him so instinctively he punched it in the head.......... and killed it.
He said he felt pretty bad about it afterwards.

[Matt Stone]

Again these are your opinions of what is supposed to happen. These are things that you believe in. I'm not saying they are right or wrong. Just that there are those who hold different opinions and they are just as right and wrong as yours are.

Well, opinion or not, it should be the standard... There is a book titled "Living the Martial Way" in which it says something along the lines of "the only thing that separates warriors from thugs is a sense of honor." It would be my belief, and I suppose many others would agree, that honor without humility is nothing more than arrogance and conceit.

Whatever.

Aren't we supposed to be talking about how to f**k up a dog?

Rat poison and a piece of red meat...

:samurai: :samurai:

[ECYili]

Something simular happend to one of my instructors. He and a fellow employee were out doing debt collecting when a rotweiller(sp) came and jumped at the other guy. He twisted to get out of the way and slapped in the side of the head just to keep it from hitting him and he killed it. This guy had no prior trainning though he was about 6'2" about 220lbs. He also felt bad and offered the guy to pay for it but the instead paid the debt that he owed.

[GouRonin]

Originally posted by ECYili
Your right about one thing Gou, everyone is entitled to their own "truths", "ideals" or "reasons". But you gotta remember when you put yourself out there in the public, be it the internet or just walking down the street. You represent and portray what kind of human being you are, your instructor-what he teaches and indirectly what type a person he is, your style and finally martial arts and artists in general. If you come across and cockey, arogant, ill-tempered and imature to a complete stranger that's what impression they will have on the above list. Likewise when you visit forums such as this one.

I agree with you to a point. In many cases there are people who study martial arts that their instructors wish they weren't teaching but they do because it pays the bills. That is what the price of being a commercial school is. But I agree with most of what you state. The problem with the internet is that people do not get a complete picture of someone and without that it's easy to see people in a light that might not be accurate. That's why I like to meet people in person but that's not always possible.

By the way, I am sort of arrogant and cocky, somewhat ill-tempered when poked. Not sure about the immature because that's subjective, but you forgot to add "good looking."
:D

Anyway, I think too many people get all caught up on the instructor thing. If mine asked me to scale it back I'd discuss it with them and then if they had good reason I'd probably comply. I'm not totally unreasonable. However, I like to be me and I enjoy that ability. When I have to change because someone else doesn't think I fit the bill what they think I should be like then I worry.


Originally posted by ECYili
I do give you credit for haveing the courage neccesary to stick to your beliefs. Alot of people don't really know where they stand on issues let alone stand up for them.
Happy trainning
Dan

I hear you. Right back at you. Enjoy.
:asian:

[tshadowchaser]

Only know for sure of a dog_ martial atrs person encounter.

A large dog jumped a student of mine years ago and latched onto his arm. The kid kicked the dog squarly between the rear legs. Pretty much the end of the story the dog went down to the ground , my student got the hell out.

[GouRonin]

Originally posted by Yiliquan1
Well, opinion or not, it should be the standard...

Why? Because you think it should be? I can see it now. 4 billion people on the globe all twisting to your whims.


Originally posted by Yiliquan1
There is a book titled "Living the Martial Way" in which it says something along the lines of "the only thing that separates warriors from thugs is a sense of honor." It would be my belief, and I suppose many others would agree, that honor without humility is nothing more than arrogance and conceit.

I dunno. There are a few thugs that have honour but live their life based on things that you or I might not understand or be able to deal with. But at least you are now stating that it's your opinion, whether or not others agree. When you read or see, or hear something you agree with of course people will take it into their world view. It only makes sense that we accept the things we agree with.


Originally posted by Yiliquan1
Aren't we supposed to be talking about how to f**k up a dog?

No. How to defend against an attack.

[tshadowchaser]

Lets bring this one back to defense against dogs
Shadow

[ECYili]

There is a vulnerable place to strike that is located between the last set of ribs and where the rear thigh connects at the top. There really is not much pertection there. This is about the only body shot other then the throat or groin that would hurt with a hand strike ( I think). Not saying a nice hard kick to the ribs wouldn't change the dogs attitude.
But I think the point is to hit the dog REALLY REALLY hard with whatever you throw at it.

That's my opinion and we all know what those are like

Train hard

Dan

[Bod]

My advice when dealing with dog is don't run away. Back off. I've got no idea how to deal with dogs plural.

As for stuffing your hand down a dogs throat, Gou Ronin did say - "I can't even begin to explain why this guy is wrong." Which is probably why he hasn't.

I guess it might be wrong because the dog is only going to shake and shake, and that might change things a bit. Different breeds of dogs fight differently though.

It's easy to say that everybody has their own way of doing things and that there is no right way. it's a great way of never having to take good advice.

[Cruentus]

This is going to sound stupid as hell, so please bare with me.

I think that animals in general, especially dogs, are more in tuned to emotions, intentions, and positive or negative "energies," if you will. Once again, bare with me. I'm no animal expert, or "Jedi Mind trick" expert, so this is going to sound retarded. Anyways, dogs do not rely on rational thought like we do; so their way of survival is instinct. Part of their instinct is to recognize the emotion and "intent" of the other animals. This is an important survival tool for many animals.

This instinct can work for against a victim. Example: If the victim is afraid, waiving the hands or yelling will only provoke as opposed to scare; the dog will sense the fear. However, we can use this instinct to our advantage as well.

To use the dogs ability to recognize intent to your advantage, try creating a picture in your head of exactly what action (or non-action) you want the dog to take, and focus on projecting that image to the animal when you give it a command. No, I don't believe the dog will read your mind, but it will recognise your intent (emotions, "energies") and it will be more apt to follow your commands.

Example: My girlfriends roomate has 2 huge and undisaplined dogs. If the dog has my shoe in it's mouth, and I worriedly think about the dog chewing my shoe to bits while I tell him "NO!", the dog will continue to try to chew my shoe until I take it. If I picture the dog dropping my shoe while I calmly but sternly tell it to put down the shoe, it more often then not listens.

This has worked on more then one occasion, with more then one kind of animal.

So, when I am attacked or in danger of an attack by a dog (which has happend more then once to me) I picture the dog being my friend. In the back of my mind, however, I am ready to fight any animal to the death if it comes to that. I really believe that the animal can sense my intentions and will more likely then not pick another victim.

So, try adding this to whatever "technique" you try. By picturing what you want to happend in your mind, you will be distracted from other negative emotions (like fear), and the animal will be more apt to recognize your intent.

Sorry for the ramble!

:cool:

[ECYili]

Very interesting idea Paul. Does it work on cats? (ha ha) No I don't think your weird, heck everyone is weird in some way or another :p

I think what it comes down to is, to what ever is neccessary to get the job done.

Take care, train hard

Dan

[Cruentus]

I don't know, but it might work on da ladies....;)

[Rich Parsons]

Originally posted by PAUL

This is going to sound stupid as hell, so please bare with me.

I think that animals in general, especially dogs, are more in tuned to emotions, intentions, and positive or negative "energies," if you will. Once again, bare with me. I'm no animal expert, or "Jedi Mind trick" expert, so this is going to sound retarded. Anyways, dogs do not rely on rational thought like we do; so their way of survival is instinct. Part of their instinct is to recognize the emotion and "intent" of the other animals. This is an important survival tool for many animals.

This instinct can work for against a victim. Example: If the victim is afraid, waiving the hands or yelling will only provoke as opposed to scare; the dog will sense the fear. However, we can use this instinct to our advantage as well.

To use the dogs ability to recognize intent to your advantage, try creating a picture in your head of exactly what action (or non-action) you want the dog to take, and focus on projecting that image to the animal when you give it a command. No, I don't believe the dog will read your mind, but it will recognise your intent (emotions, "energies") and it will be more apt to follow your commands.

Example: My girlfriends roomate has 2 huge and undisaplined dogs. If the dog has my shoe in it's mouth, and I worriedly think about the dog chewing my shoe to bits while I tell him "NO!", the dog will continue to try to chew my shoe until I take it. If I picture the dog dropping my shoe while I calmly but sternly tell it to put down the shoe, it more often then not listens.

This has worked on more then one occasion, with more then one kind of animal.

So, when I am attacked or in danger of an attack by a dog (which has happend more then once to me) I picture the dog being my friend. In the back of my mind, however, I am ready to fight any animal to the death if it comes to that. I really believe that the animal can sense my intentions and will more likely then not pick another victim.

So, try adding this to whatever "technique" you try. By picturing what you want to happend in your mind, you will be distracted from other negative emotions (like fear), and the animal will be more apt to recognize your intent.

Sorry for the ramble!

:cool:

Paul,

Thanks for letting me know, I am not the only one who believes that animals 'see' or 'feel' our intentions. When I have had to deal with dogs in general, I pictured their deaths at my hands and walked confidently towards them or slowly back facing them. The direction being the direction I wanted to go in the first place. I have used the calm action in the mind also with dogs that were just in need of discipline.

As you say it is 'A' technique that one can add to the list of things they may try.

Good Luck all

Rich
:)

[LanceWildcat1]

Yeah, after having 8 stitches in my head from a pit bull bite while running, I got a CCW(concealed carry permit)!! Nothing like a .45 slug to the head to stop an attack! If the dog is out and unleashed, the owner should be held responsible for any thing that the dog does. Most cities and towns now have laws that cover things like that. I was raised on a ranch, and the 'law of the land' was always, "If you catch a dog in your livestock, the law cover's your keester if you shoot and kill the animal." I don't hate dogs, I just believe that if you have one, be a responsible owner and protect yourself and other's from a bad problem. Scared animals will attack, and if not restained, can do damage or even kill.:mad:

[theneuhauser]

I got a CCW(concealed carry permit)!! Nothing like a .45 slug to the head to stop an attack!

the nra's not all bad. gotta love it out here in the wild, wild west.

[LanceWildcat1]

theneuhauser sez:

the nra's not all bad. gotta love it out here in the wild, wild west.

I agree, but don't say that in front of Rosie or a few folks in Congress!!! You might get an argument from those who claim that the Second Amendment doesn't give us the right to self protection by allowing us to 'keep and bear arms'. I am a proud member of the NRA, and I believe that this is one of very few organizations that fight for the Second Amendment rights.
:soapbox:

[SolidTiger]

Once I was walking home when a crazy looking dog came from nowhere I tried to be nice to the dog, but it seem like I just pissed
it off more. Then I could see that the dog was getting ready to attack so as soon as the dog cross the line I kick it straight in it's
nose and knocked it out,and the dog did the number two in the
middle of the street while it was laying down. I mean it was a lot
of it in the street.

Thank You

SolidTiger

"Sometimes you just got to do what you got to do"

[GouRonin]

Originally posted by Bod
As for stuffing your hand down a dogs throat, Gou Ronin did say - "I can't even begin to explain why this guy is wrong." Which is probably why he hasn't.
I guess it might be wrong because the dog is only going to shake and shake, and that might change things a bit.

YOu go ahead and try it and then get back to us ok? It's always nice to have empirical evidence isn't it?