Instructor Only Board

[Thesemindz]

Instructors face, I think, some issues in martial arts which relate specifically to the role they play as instructors and transcend the style, skill, or tradition they individually may follow. I feel that there are certain issues involving student interaction, authority and respect, being a role model, and communication which are universal to pupil-mentor relationships. I know that as an instructor I have several times experienced situations where I have thought, "I wonder how other instructors deal with situations like these?" Of course I communicate with the instructors I know and we discuss topics like these all the time, but I have always thought it would be beneficial if there were an internet forum for just such a thing.

I think it is important for instructors to be able to communicate across dogmatic lines about the experiences we all share as instructors. In part, I think a seperate forum is needed to protect the sanctity of the pupil-mentor relationship. Instructors need a place where they know they can refer to situations using specific examples, although not names, in order to communicate with each other. Please understand, I do not advocate a forum for negative commentary about others. I think the martial arts community would be strengthened by a place where instructors could meet, and be allowed to freely discuss issues which affect the growth of martial artists everywhere and the martial arts as a whole, safe in the knowledge that they could speak freely without fear of stifling a student who happens to stray onto his instructors words.

There are situations universal to the path we walk. Have you ever had a tough guy enter your dojo, studio, kwoon, ring, basement, college P.E. class, self defense seminar, demonstration, mass intro, temple, way place, mat, and try to convince you the technique you've taught to dozens of people, practiced for years, used spontaneously in the ring, on the street, in a bar, in the bathroom, on your friends, or your uke, doesn't work? When was the last time a student told you it was impossible for them to learn the next pattern, form, kata, poomse, freestyle combination, technique, lock, disarm, or submission, when you know hundreds of people have learned this technique for thousands of years? How many times have you seen students struggle at the same level with the same skill just before they all reach the same evolutionary leap in understanding and ability? These are not situations unique to any style or belief. This has repeated itself throughout time, as long as one person has tried to teach others the art of combat, in any form. Having a place where people who have accepted the responsibility of teaching can discuss these challenges and synergize to improve in their roles can only improve martial arts everywhere.

I think this can be done. It would require some effort. Instructors would have to be vetted somehow. Not on the basis of their skill or style or approach, but on the basis of their position as instructors. Without safeguards of some, even limited kind, the forum would be open to all and instructors would again have to stay mum for fear of a student misinterpreting his instructors words. As instructors, we understand that the student can not be told everything at once. We had to learn slowly, over the course of years. I am only a child on this path. That is why I advocate for just such a place. If a beginner student heard that his instructor thought he really struggled with his front kick, he may lose heart and give up forever. In reality, the instructor may realize that all white belts struggle with gross motor motion and that it is the struggle which helps to build the coordination they will develop over the coming months, and that the many repetitions needed for the student to improve will strengthen his muscles and refine his sense of timing and balance. The student has not yet reached this understanding.

In addition, this would have to be a place free of politics and bitterness. These issues may have their place, although I would argue against that, but it is certaintly not in a place designed to make instruction better. I would suggest strict moderation of the board to control the discourse, at least at first. I do not mean to stifle discussion, but negativity will not make us stronger. Ever. Discussion should not be about technical aspects of technique, there are technical boards for that. The topics should be focused and specific. Is it possible that this could include discussions on different types of motion, ie. locks or chokes in general, or even specific techniques, osoto-gari, negativa, dance of death, uppercut, kimura, tornado kick etc.? Perhaps, if it related to challenges faced when teachning those techniques and succesful strategies to overcome them. Not if it devolved into why my style is better than everyone elses. There are boards for that too.

I know this is a small request for a huge task. I know that there are a hundred ways to shoot this idea down. I also know that I have desired this type of thing for some time, and I don't believe I can be the only one. We have to think beyond our walls. Can the art and beauty of combat, at every level of study and interest, be elevated by our shared knowledge? Could we consider what it could mean if we helped instructors of every style in every place improve the skill of their students? Could the martial arts, by our powers combined, grow leaps and bounds in the next generations because instructors began to share information instead of horde it and truly asked their peers for advice? Instructors are not students. Of all the beautiful and strong individuals who come into contact in some way with what we do, how many of them teach? How many pass on the knowledge? They need a place of their own.

-Rob

[Aegis]

What proof would you want that the individual was an instructor? What level of instructor would you allow in?

Look in the Horror stories forum as well, would you allow instructors like Bruce into the club but ban the good posters who haven't reached their instructor level yet?

An instructor issues area is all well and good, but banning students from seeing it shouldn't be necessary, as eventually the students will be instructors and might learn something useful from other instructors now for use in the future.

Again, I feel that there is no need for secrecy between instructors and students. If you can't post something because you worry that your students might see it, then you probably shouldn't post it at all.

After all, what would happen if one of your students also happened to be an instructor in another style? They'd be able to see it all anyway.

[Bob Hubbard]

I've thought about this for a while. My largest concern is how to tell if someone is really an instructor. There would most likely have to be some verification involved, and that might incurr some expences (LD calls, postage, etc). But, I'm open to ideas.

[Andrew Green]

I'm not really a fan of the idea, basically because I believe in keeping everything out in the open...

But that said, I think it would be of more benefit as a "professional" board, as a way for people to discuss the ideas of increasing enrollment, income, selling new ideas, fee structures, etc.

As for verification, honor system of giving the schools info (name, address, number, etc.)

Or simply faxing in a business card / piece of letter head.

Anyone that really wants the info will get it anyways, and not many people are likely to lie about it...

[Thesemindz]

What proof would you want that the individual was an instructor? What level of instructor would you allow in?

Look in the Horror stories forum as well, would you allow instructors like Bruce into the club but ban the good posters who haven't reached their instructor level yet?

An instructor issues area is all well and good, but banning students from seeing it shouldn't be necessary, as eventually the students will be instructors and might learn something useful from other instructors now for use in the future.

Again, I feel that there is no need for secrecy between instructors and students. If you can't post something because you worry that your students might see it, then you probably shouldn't post it at all.

After all, what would happen if one of your students also happened to be an instructor in another style? They'd be able to see it all anyway.


You're right, there are several possible problems, and more which you have not pointed out. It's easy to point out the weaknesses and flaws, and the benefits of such an endeavor may be more subtle. That is why I made an open ended suggestion. There are people here far smarter than I, and lots of them. Surely the idea could be improved upon. I think your wrong though. Many issues should be discussed openly with students, but students do not have the same perspective as instructors. I didn't. They just aren't there. Maybe they will be someday, and that's great, but they are looking at what they do through their own egocentric reality. An instructor is watching much more than the performance of any single student, and has other goals. You wouldn't take a person off the street and begin by teaching them the most advanced, dangerous, esoteric, acrobatic, or challenging technique, because they aren't ready. You have to bring them to that place, and some things can only be said to a student when they are ready to hear them. It's not a desire to "hide" things from the student, it's a desire to protect the student and help them grow at the right pace.

As far as the verification process, I think if applicants gave their school information a simple call might be enough. True, people could give their own number and sneak in, but that's alot of work to go to to read a board which really wouldn't be of much interest to the average student for very long anyway, and a few fakes probably wouldn't damage the integrity of the board too greatly. Could we trust the honor system amongst martial artists? I'd hope so. I don't know, maybe a more in depth system of checks would be needed.

As far as business information, that could be shared, but that's really not what I'm looking for personally. Perhaps that sort of thing could have its own board. I hadn't really thought about it, and that's why I finally posted the idea here. I knew you guys would immediately start evolving and growing the simple seed I planted.

-Rob

[Thesemindz]

What is it like to feel the energy of a room filled with fifteen or twenty people as you slowly desensitize them to violence? How do you guide and interpret the ebb and flow of a group of unique individuals as they act in concert to develop an understanding of combat motion and it's applications for conflict resolution? How do you simultaneously address the individual challenges each person in that room will uniquely face, as well as the challenges you know they share, as well as the challenges the room as a whole is facing in terms of intensity, power, commitment, collective breathing patterns, technical understanding, aggression, focus, or respect? What are the best methods for encouraging impatient beginners to recognize the length of the path before them, as well as the beauty of the ground beneath their feet? How do you keep highly skilled, intelligent, ferocious, high ranking, senior students commited to coming in week after week after week for years to practice with white and yellow belts again and again? Why do the people who spend years and years in one school, with one instructer, continue to welcome in newcomers day after day after day knowing that someday, 99% of them will move on to a new school? Why do people who go from school to school to school continue to return to martial arts? What draws them in, and how can we help them to anchor themselves, not stylistically, but to training of any kind, so that they can become the martial arts Masters of tomorrow, in whatever path they follow? Can we not see how great tomorrow's Masters could be, if we would only choose to better ourselves as their instructors?

-Rob

[Shane Smith]

An Instructors forum seems like a good idea but it's hard to establish credibility for validation purposes, especially if the participants are posting under less verifiable screen names. Perhaps a copy of ones Instructors certifcate emailed to the admin would suffice? Other than that, anyone can claim to be anything. That is a real problem. Perhaps require real names in the Instructors Forum along with proof of Instructors status?

[Mark Barlow]

Invitation only?
Start with members with well known and verifiable histories. After that, instructors vouching for other instructors. It's amazing just how much social and professional circles overlap when it comes to martial arts.

Mark Barlow

[mj-hi-yah]

Hi :wavey: Mark welcome to MT!

Rob I really like your idea/ideas and as an instructor I'd really be interested in a place to share such things and learn from other instructors. As far as the verification process, first I'm not sure why people who were not instructors would care to join in, but you never know, and people are always honest about their credentials, so since this could incur some costs whatever Bob decides, I'd be in support of.

MJ :asian:

[Andrew Green]

first I'm not sure why people who were not instructors would care to join in,
And if they did, would it really be that bad?

What if they want to become an instructor at some point?

Anyone that is interested in how to run a class should be welcome, forget the verification nonsense.

[Gary Crawford]

I think the "instructor board" would be a great idea,although as many of you have pointed out,verification will be an issue. Take me for example. I was certified by my former grand master and only have my certificates as proof,but if anyone tried to verify them, my former grand master won't verify them because of our falling out. With or without his blessing, I am still teaching. I teach a weekly JKD class and a weekly womens self defense class. I really don't need anyones endorsment to teach (and won't pay anyone for my right to teach JKD). If there were some senior Kenpo instructors here in Ar, I would pursue being certified as a Kenpo instructor. Since that isn't a possibilty at this point in time, I wouldn't even consider teaching that system without proper certification. As a Shodan,I do not have the rank or the support of a Kenpo organization enough to attempt to pass myself off as a Kenpo instructor. I do integrate allot of Kenpo techniques into JKD since it interfaces so well. I do not have a rank structor in my classes and I like it that way. In fact,I have one peticular student that is one of the best beginners I have ever seen,who regularly spars with some students who are bb's in another system and holds his own with them and me. Rank means nothing to this guy,and why should it? He is a very instintive fighter that commands repect due to his ability without wearing any rank. Certified or not, I taught him everything he knows so far. To me,that's a bigger reward than any certificate.

[kroh]

I think a better route would be to have the instructors post their querries with a bracketed tag in the subject of the thread to alert others of that level to the thread. For example, "Questions about Injured Student [Instructor input wanted]".

That way not only are you targeting the post (thread) but also if there are people with many years of experience in this matter that may lend you advice they may chime in also.

Regards,
Walt

[Andrew Green]

The ONLY reason I see for having this is to get some things off the public board that have to do with running a business / evolving a class.

Things that if posted on the public sections would have 1000 replies of "McDojo!"

[Thesemindz]

The ONLY reason I see for having this is to get some things off the public board that have to do with running a business / evolving a class.

Things that if posted on the public sections would have 1000 replies of "McDojo!"


Andrew, you've now made this comment several times. I have to say I'm surprised. You're public profile says you are a college instructor. In all the classes you've taught, you've never once encountered a situation where you had an issue with a student that you knew was a matter of their limited perspective? You've never had to hold back a comment or criticism because you knew that the student was not yet at a place where they could understand and appreciate the point you were trying to convey? You've never looked at a student and thought, "Oh, you're still that guy. I was that guy once, don't worry, you'll grow out of it."?

I understand that you think this is a bad idea. And the many people who posted that verification would be difficult or challenging are undoubtedly correct. How many people have posted constructive suggestions? Can the idea be expanded upon? Are there possible benefits to this idea I haven't even considered yet? What other issues could instructors use input on? The man or woman at the front of the room has a vastly different vision then the men and women lined up in front of him.

The strange thing to me is that you seem to agree with my general idea of not letting the customer into the kitchen. You say that discussing business would just get cries of "McDojo," why is that? Is it because the individual martial artist who trains from books in his garage has a different perspective than the proffesional business owner who has 200 students to consider and needs to generate profit to continue to function so those 200 students have a place to train? Could that differing perspective be reason enough to exclude those who do not share that view from a constructive dialogue on the topic, knowing full well they won't have the experience to understand or forward the discussion?

-Rob

[Thesemindz]

I think a better route would be to have the instructors post their querries with a bracketed tag in the subject of the thread to alert others of that level to the thread. For example, "Questions about Injured Student [Instructor input wanted]".

That way not only are you targeting the post (thread) but also if there are people with many years of experience in this matter that may lend you advice they may chime in also.

Regards,
Walt


I don't think this is a bad idea, and in fact, barring the creation of an Instructor's Only Board, this is probably the best idea. Here's why I think it should be taken one step further.

HYPOTHETICAL
I have a student who breaks his ankle while working stand up fighting on a mat. Completely freak accident. Retreats from an attacker, ankle gets twisted, loses footing, falls back over it at an angle. Maybe he's been running alot lately for the first time in years and that weakened his ankle too. Maybe he knew his ankle was bothering him, but he didn't want to listen so he overtrained. Now he has a serious injury.

I get on a public forum and ask other instructors what they do to encourage students to listen to their bodies when their bodies are giving them signals of fatigue. Due to the limited space and time I have, I don't post all the details of the incident. Just one question. "How do I get students to listen to their bodies so they can avoid accidents?" Seems harmless.

My student has a broken ankle. He has nothing to do, and nowhere to go, so he sits at his computer all day and reads internet forums. He finds Martial Talk, which by the way, I recommend my students to read, albeit with certain caveats about the behavior of a small group of people in any large social setting. He comes across my post about the incident, and realizes from my public profile that I am his instructor. He interprets this as a personal comment from me about his incident, blaming the entire thing on his attitude and inexperience. He was already frustrated and upset, now his instructor thinks he's a stubborn idiot too. And he wouldn't have gotten hurt if he wasn't wasting time with that jerk anyway, a jerk by the way who clearly doesn't know how not to injure his students, otherwise he wouldn't have to ask over a public forum on the internet. Well one things for sure, he's not coming back when he's healthy so he can be jeapordized by such amature instruction again.

Now here's the thing. The injury probably was caused by his stubborn attitude. What he doesn't realize, because he hasn't been doing martial arts for nearly as long, is this happens sometimes. We've all overtrained. We've all ignored the warning signs our body was sending and pushed too hard. This problem isn't his problem, it's a perennial problem. The whole reason I asked the question, is because I see students do this all the time. The question wasn't even about him, his injury just pushed that particular issue to the fore and so I went to the boards and put it out there, to see how other instructors, in any art, handle this. I know all that, but in his frustration and anger and embarresment, he wouldn't understand if I explained it. Because he views his training in an egocentric fashion. He may be peripherally concerned with martial arts training in general and ways to improve it, but he's mostly concerened with his own training and skill level, so he interprets my question through that lense. He's not wrong, he's just not ready to see the big picture.

That is why we need a place for instructors. It doesn't have to be bulletproof. Really, just a simple call to wherever you teach so you can answer the phone and say, "Yep, got some students here." I don't even think we need rank or association verification. I wouldn't care if you were a proffessional instructor, or a guy teaching six kids at his church. It's the act of teaching that presents us with these issues. Sure, people could sneak in, but not many would and it's not that big a deal. It's to protect the student from his own ignorance, and because even a martial artist with twenty or thirty years of training doesn't neccessarily face the same issues as a martial artist with 2 or 3 years of instructing. Experience as a fighter, champion, or stylist is not the same as experience as an instructor.

-Rob

[Andrew Green]

It's because there are a good number of people that start kicking and screaming at the idea of anyone making money teaching martial arts.

If that reason isn't valid then I'd say make it public, which is the better option, but given the "personality" of Martial arts forums might just be a big headache for whoever gets to moderate it...

[hammer]

I think it is a great idea! How would you verify who is an Instructor??

* must have a website
* introduction of a known Instructor
* credential verification
* a subscription
* password authority
* age 18 plus
* References

Just a few thoughts

Cheers

[Andrew Green]

One thing I want to object to before this goes anywhere, this should be about business matters. Not general discussion.

Otherwise it just becomes an elitist club and a lot of good information could be removed from the public forum, not good for the rest of the site...

[kroh]

Hey there...

Ther are a lot of good points both pro and con. The thing I would like to know is whether or not propective instructors would be allowed? For the person who might be in front of a class someday and hopes to teach, would they be allowed in and thus be able to benefit from eveyrone's experience? Or would it be for said instructor who teaches at school or has their own place?

Do we exclude the newbie because they haven't done it yet and would like some advice on what to do and what not to?

Just a thought ...
Regards,
Walt :idunno:

[hammer]

One thing I want to object to before this goes anywhere, this should be about business matters. Not general discussion.

Otherwise it just becomes an elitist club and a lot of good information could be removed from the public forum, not good for the rest of the site...Andrew, I think that is a valid point, the school Management forum seems to be slow, Maybe because it is a public forum, I do believe that the affairs of running a school or associated Issue's are of no concern to the students. I also think it

Could become controversial between instructor’s an example, “to Mc dojo or not?” sort of thing.

Yet if it was able to be managed properly it could be of tremendous value, I think were lucky, that we have the team of administrator's here on Martial talk that we do .Anythink is possible.

Cheers
Hammer.

[Gemini]

I like the idea at face value, but I wouldn't limit it to business issues (already a forum for that) and I'm not real keen on the validation part. Simply because, though I am an instructor, I have no way (other than the patch on my dobak) to prove it. We don't use certificates and my Sabumnim isn't a fan of MA forums, so validation that way would be out the window. Maybe it just sucks to be me. That would be a shame because I have such "teaching method" discussions with my Sabumnim at least twice a week. I would definately enjoy hearing other opinions on such topics. That said, I have to agree with Andrew that as soon as someone starts with the McDojo stuff, flags go up. Don't need it. Don't want it.

Also, it's not like this is carved in stone. If it gets started and needs to be altered, just do it. If it turns out to be too much of a burden, can it altogether. We tried, it didn't work, it's gone. End of story.

[Thesemindz]

One thing I want to object to before this goes anywhere, this should be about business matters. Not general discussion.

Otherwise it just becomes an elitist club and a lot of good information could be removed from the public forum, not good for the rest of the site...


Andrew, I really don't mean this as any kind of slight, I just want to know where you're coming from on this issue, are you an instructor or school owner yourself?

I don't want this to be an elitist club. I don't want it to be about general discussion either. I specifically said more than once that those issues already have forums to discuss them in. What I want is a place where instructors can go to speak with other instructors about issues specific to martial arts instruction without intrusion from either non-instructors who lack the perspective of the instructor, or students who might, to their detriment, misinterpret a discussion which is way over their heads. My reasons for this are very pro student, not elitist. That doesn't mean it couldn't devolve into that, which is why I advocated for strong moderation from my very first post.

-Rob

[Thesemindz]

I like the idea at face value, but I wouldn't limit it to business issues (already a forum for that) and I'm not real keen on the validation part. Simply because, though I am an instructor, I have no way (other than the patch on my dobak) to prove it. We don't use certificates and my Sabumnim isn't a fan of MA forums, so validation that way would be out the window. Maybe it just sucks to be me. That would be a shame because I have such "teaching method" discussions with my Sabumnim at least twice a week. I would definately enjoy hearing other opinions on such topics. That said, I have to agree with Andrew that as soon as someone starts with the McDojo stuff, flags go up. Don't need it. Don't want it.

Also, it's not like this is carved in stone. If it gets started and needs to be altered, just do it. If it turns out to be too much of a burden, can it altogether. We tried, it didn't work, it's gone. End of story.


I don't think the validation part has to be too extreme, although others might disagree. I really think even one simple step would be enough to weed out the casual lurker, and that's really all I'm concerned about. I don't think validation should be based on style, lineage, number of students, politics, ring record, or anything else other than whether or not you teach other people martial arts in any way. Maybe that is too broad. I don't know. I'm just putting the idea out there because I've wanted to for so long.

You mention that you have talks about these types of issues with your instructor on a regular basis. I do to. That's all I'm talking about. A chance to have the kinds of discussions instructors have in the office with each other, only with a larger pool of brains to pick from. I'm not advocating a forum for complaining about students behind their back, and the secrecy isn't to keep knowledge hidden. When we have a staff meeting at the studio, it is only for the staff. It isn't open to any student who wants to sit in. It's not a matter of secrecy, it's a matter of developing our selves and our program so that the student can benefit from the end result. That's all I want here.

-Rob

[Gemini]

As I said in the beginning, I like the idea at face value. It appears we're looking for the same thing. You've got my vote.

[Thesemindz]

Hey there...

Ther are a lot of good points both pro and con. The thing I would like to know is whether or not propective instructors would be allowed? For the person who might be in front of a class someday and hopes to teach, would they be allowed in and thus be able to benefit from eveyrone's experience? Or would it be for said instructor who teaches at school or has their own place?

Do we exclude the newbie because they haven't done it yet and would like some advice on what to do and what not to?

Just a thought ...
Regards,
Walt :idunno:

This is a good question. I don't know what we do with people who are on the cusp of being instructors. Than again, there is a large difference between someone who walks the lines and gives pointers on front kicks and someone who is responsible for curriculum development, planning classes and special events, interpreting and addressing the challenges of individual students, and finding ways to communicate technical knowledge to auditory, kinesthetic, and visual learners simultaneously. I don't know where you draw that line, although I'd be inclined to say wait until someone is at least assisting. I would say exclude people who, "might someday maybe want to teach something to someone if time allows," but include those who, "have a serious interest in what is involved in transmitting knowledge to the next generation of martial artists." The problem there becomes one of subtle judgement calls by the mods, which would lead to feelings of being slighted for some. I don't have an answer, but it is a good question.

-Rob

[Thesemindz]

I think it is a great idea! How would you verify who is an Instructor??

* must have a website
* introduction of a known Instructor
* credential verification
* a subscription
* password authority
* age 18 plus
* References

Just a few thoughts

Cheers


I think, and I kinda hate to say this, but I think ultimately it would require some kind of subscription fee. Any plan like this will require alot more work on the part of the staff at Martial Talk, or any other site which decided to host such a forum. I think the only way it would be feasable would be if the people participating paid some kind of monthly or yearly fee. However, if it was reasonable, I for one would gladly pay it for access to such a site. Although admittedly I am not yet a supporting member of Martial Talk, (but at least I feel guilty about it).

As far as the vetting process, I would like to think a simple application would be enough, perhaps including the phone number of your school so the staff at Martial Talk could call and veryify that you are a real person and not an internet entity. Beyond that, I'd accept the honor system, but perhaps others feel the need for greater verification. I don't think it should ever be based on style or lineage. The issues I would like to see discussed are not unique to kenpo, they deal with the pupil/mentor relationship and I believe are universal to martial arts instruction.

-Rob

[Andrew Green]

Andrew, I really don't mean this as any kind of slight, I just want to know where you're coming from on this issue, are you an instructor or school owner yourself?

Yes



students who might, to their detriment, misinterpret a discussion which is way over their heads.
I'd give them a little more credit.

[Thesemindz]

Otherwise it just becomes an elitist club and a lot of good information could be removed from the public forum, not good for the rest of the site...


Here's the thing Andrew, the topics I would like to discuss will never see the light of day on a public forum. If a student of mine found his way on here and misinterpreted a question meant for my peers, and not my students, and quit Karate, that would be my responsibility. I simply won't take that risk, and I don't believe I'm alone. Right now there are issues which arise from time to time which I confer with my local colleagues on and than simply drop, because there is no secure way to confer with my more far reaching equals and betters. My students lose out on the knowledge that I could garner from minds greater than my own. I will not post delicate subjects where my students could read them, period. It is not like I have a new issue which needs immediate attention every day, but it happens, and there isn't a place to go. I think Martial Talk could provide such a place. I think eventually, someone probably will.

-Rob

[Thesemindz]

I'd give them a little more credit.

Thank you for answering my question. Please don't think that I think my students are idiots. I have many bright and capable students who are very commited to their training, but white belts are not ready for black belt material. Neither are they ready for more advanced concepts, nor do they understand the unique challenges that one who has trained for years in any skill or discipline faces, especially when those challenges relate to communicating that skill to others. They haven't even aquired the skill yet, much less the knowledge neccessary to pass it on. We all had to walk the path to get where we are, and some day they may get here too. I also recognize that I have much farther to go. I hope that you can sense my sincerity. I don't want an elitist place where high ranking students can go and talk about how much better they are than their students. I want a place where instructors can overcome their own limitations, with the help of their peers, without fear of embarresment or reprise.

-Rob

[arnisador]

I cringe in fear at the very thought of having to be the person who decides who is and who isn't a legitimate instructor.

On the other hand, the recent WMAA camp (www.wmarnis.com) had two sessions for school owners, by Matt Dorsey and our own Bob Hubbard, that were deemed useful.