Warrior or Soldier

[OULobo]

What is the difference between a warrior and an soldier? I will post the actual definitions, but I want to hear everyone's personal definitions. Can one be both, or one but not the other?

[OULobo]

war·ri·or

NOUN:

One who is engaged in or experienced in battle.
One who is engaged aggressively or energetically in an activity, cause, or conflict: neighborhood warriors fighting against developers.


sol·dier

NOUN:

One who serves in an army.
An enlisted person or a noncommissioned officer.
An active, loyal, or militant follower of an organization.

[GuruJim1]

OUlobo,

Those are very good definitions. However, soldiers are also warriors at heart. Both the warrior and the soldier trains for battle. Always preparing for the worst, but hoping for the best. Showing bravery in the mist of danger. As I told a young warrior while doing my tour in Iraq, being brave doesn't mean never being afriad. It's doing your job inspite of your fear. I believe there is no real difference in either, but thats just my opinion.

Also, I do have some great Iraq pic on my MSN Site. I just posted Babylon, Iraq pics. Just think, the city was destoryed in 600 BC and was never rebuilt. Also will post the temple at the old City of Ure where Abraham was from. Due to the heat I lost a few rolls of film with some great pics. But I have my friend that lost some film due to heat damage is trading me. I will hope to also post the hanging gardens, and Abraham's house that was rebuilt. Check it out.

http://groups.msn.com/PukulanTjimindeMalay/homepage.msnw

[BlackCatBonz]

a soldier fights on orders
a warrior fights on virtue

[Tgace]

If you want to have some insight into the reality of modern military leadership and "warrior virtues" read this....

http://www.au.af.mil/au/awc/awcgate/au-24/baucom.pdf

Many "Warriors" sacked cities, carried off women as slaves, burned down villages etc. While I of all people value the "Warrior Ethic", as we have recodified it with our modern values. I would hesititae to define the basic concept of a "Warrior" as necessarily "virtious". At least by any modern standard. Remember that was the "Way of War" in those days.

Warriors were warriors because thats what they were. Socially, born into a caste system, Knights, Samurai, Tribal Warriors etc....Soldiers were the "Average Joe" that joined (or were conscripted) into armies, taught how to fight, paid in some manner and sent into battle. Many went back to being "Joe Farmer" afterwards. Some became "Career Men" and sort of crossed the Soldier/Warrior boundary. In our times I would say that the difference between a Warrior and a Soldier is a matter of professionalism, commitment to craft and the honoring of a "code" either personal or codified. In the military, when you meet a "Soldier" vs. a "Warrior" you know it....

[Tgace]

Just kind of "free flowing" here....

A soldier is more "Job" oriented."I enlisted to be a (X) and after my time is up Im out." A warrior is more "Way" oriented. "Im here because this is what I was meant to do."

Some believe there is no difference...
http://www.achillesheel.freeuk.com/article19_3.html

Do you see a difference between a soldier and a warrior?
No. The soldier and the warrior are the same The warrior in one sense might be a more disciplined soldier if you take some of the elite units. But anybody that stands in the trenches, has got the balls to stand in the trenches, he's a warrior. I cannot take that away from them. How much of the philosophy of the 'Purity Of Arms' is embraced. is each individual's difference.http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?l=s&p=31


soldier (n.) (http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=soldier) http://www.etymonline.com/graphics/dictionary.gif (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=soldier) c.1300, from O.Fr. soudier "one who serves in the army for pay," from M.L. soldarius "a soldier" (cf. It. soldato and Fr. soldat "soldier," which is borrowed from It.), lit. "one having pay," from L.L. soldum, from acc. of L. solidus, a Roman gold coin (see solidus (http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=solidus)). The verb meaning "to serve as a soldier" is first recorded 1647; to soldier on "persist doggedly" is attested from 1954.
warrior (http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=warrior) http://www.etymonline.com/graphics/dictionary.gif (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=warrior) 1297, from O.N.Fr. werreieor (O.Fr. guerreor) "a warrior, one who wages war," from werreier "wage war," from werre (see war (http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=war)). The root of the actual word "soldier" is Solidus a Roman coin. So a soldier joins, trains and fights for pay. A "warrior" in olden times fought because thats what he was born/expected to do. Now a days, I would say a "Warrior" is the type person who would "do it for no pay." It being less about the money and more about "The Way".

[BlackCatBonz]

when i used the term virtue i had these definitions in my mind:
admirable quality: a particular quality that is good or admirable, but not necessarily in terms of morality
effective force: the power or efficacy that something contains to do something

a warrior doesnt necesarrily fight because the cause is morally beneficial, but only because HE thinks its it beneficial.

in old japan there were many warriors that fought because of a strong belief in loyalty to their lord and would fight with or without the pay, but those same lords had many soldiers that were just performing a duty.

im not saying that there arent many warriors in the military, on the contrary, i think it is them that rise to the occasion and become great leaders.

[arnisador]

I'd agree that a soldier is more of a job and a warrior is more of a mindset. You could have someone drafted into service to become a soldier. While he is at war he might well be a warrior (someone who is in a war) but I'd be more likely to use warrior for someone who chooses that life.

[searcher]

a soldier fights on orders
a warrior fights on virtue
Very nice! I like the sound of that.http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/images/icons/icon14.gif

[Silo-Fu Kung-Fu]

All good posts, But what I find interesting is the people (in general) who think there too good to be a solider, and feel that there a "True Warrior" when in fact they have no idea how to be either.

I find that the people that say there a "warrior" are not even close, its just BS ego and what not.

personnaly I have been a soldier and while some are Warriors, many are not.

The more someone says there somthing (in this case Warrior) the more likly there not.

same goes for just about anything, Religion is a good group the more religious somone says they are then less they really are. ( If they were as religious as they say there are then they would not feel the need to tell everyone that they are)

[GuruJim1]

I agree with Silo-fu. In the combat zone I have seen bravery, and cowards. Just enlisting in the military doesn't make you a warrior. However, there are warrior, and cowards forced into bravery. Just because a government orders soldiers into war, it the heart of that soldier to believe in and make the cause justice. My government might of sent me to fight a war over oil. But my fight was to free an enslaved nation. I have seen the mass graves, and the Iraqi police I trained some showed me the the names of the person whom torture them craved into their bodies. I fought to stop an evil man from murdering, and raping at will. That was the fight, I fought, a warrior's fight.

As a police officer I fight to my city safe, and people secure in their homes. I didn't choose to be a warrior, it chose me. I put my life on the line so they wont have to. That is how a lot of soldiers, Marines, Sailors, and Airmen and women, a long with all the emergency forces feel. We live your lives with honor, and will die with honor.

[Sin]

a soldier fights on orders
a warrior fights on virtue

solder=drone
warrior=honor

[Tgace]

There is "Honor" to be had in both ways. I know many fine "soldiers" with plenty of honor. Service to your country is honorable regardless of how "pure" your quest for "Warriorship" is.

[Sin]

True maybe I misspoke

a warrior has his personal honor he is fighting for,and the honor of his family, much in the way of the Samuri, a solider is a fighter of rank, a follower instead of a leader, There is always a bigger fish when it comes to a solder.

[Knarfan]

True maybe I misspoke

a warrior has his personal honor he is fighting for,and the honor of his family, much in the way of the Samuri, a solider is a fighter of rank, a follower instead of a leader, There is always a bigger fish when it comes to a solder.
A soldier has a personal honor he is fighting for also . The honor of his country , the honor of the people he is fighting for & the honor of his family .... There may be a bigger fish calling the shots , but that dosn't make the soldier a drone . I think that that is exactly what makes him honorable ....

Frank

[goshawk]

As far as I've been able to figure out these past few years of planning to join the military, the difference is external vs. internal.

Being a soldier is an external thing--choosing to work within a framework, within a code, for a common aim. Working to obey and to lead and accomplish things inside an external code or ethical system. Working might even be the keyword, here.

Being a warrior is an internal journey. The historical sense of the title warrior applies to solitary fighters, men or women who fought alone--for glory or honour or family, doesn't really matter. These days, it's your own journey, on the inside, to become a warrior.

I don't think the two are antithetical, and I think they can be mutually supportive roles. A soldier can be ethical and honourable as and individual in his or her own right, and a warrior can be disciplined and learn to fight from within a framework. However, I'll agree they're two different things.

[Tgace]

I dont really now of any example in military history where signifigant things were accomplished by warriors who "fought alone". The lone wolf, Rambo "Warrior" is a myth IMHO. Even the Samurai and medieval Knights who were of the "Warrior Class" fought in organized battles. Examples of individual combat did absolutely exist, but all warfare is typified by some form of teamwork.

Our modern definition of "Warrior" is very different from the historical model IMO. For example, the Samurai were "Warriors" by caste and at the same time there were Ashigaru (http://www.historyofwar.org/articles/weapons_ashigaru.html) "Soldiers" recruited from the other classes who fought at the same time. They all fought, bled and died pretty much the same, but what was expected of the Warriors by their society was quite different. There really is no "class" difference in the military these days (besides the officer/enlisted split), so the difference between a Warrior and a Soldier has picked up all of this philosophical/spiritual/mystical stuff. I just think of the difference as one of "dedication to craft". The difference between somebody who "does something" from someone who "is something".

[arnisador]

solder=drone
Wow, this seems pretty harsh.

[Rich Parsons]

war·ri·or

NOUN:

One who is engaged in or experienced in battle.
One who is engaged aggressively or energetically in an activity, cause, or conflict: neighborhood warriors fighting against developers.


sol·dier

NOUN:

One who serves in an army.
An enlisted person or a noncommissioned officer.
An active, loyal, or militant follower of an organization.


In my opinion one could be A Warrior with out being A Soldier. I also believe the converse, is true also where a Soldier does not have to be a Warrior.

One can be in the military and be support and not have the warrior mentality, and see any combat experience.

One can be a street warrior or have seen combat without any formal training as a soldier.

I agree that many Soldiers are Warriors and this makes a great combination.

:asian:

[47MartialMan]

So is it safe to say that both Warrior and Soldier have the same virtues on what they are there to accomplish?

BTW-who ever posted that Etymology site...I had discovered that one some time ago...I love Etymology .

[Akidorina]

"A soldier follows others as a warrior fallows his/her own path.
A soldier does not take responsabilaty for his/her own actions "I was just following orders" a warrior takes full responsabillity by taking care of the family of the one he/her has killed even if it was an accident.

A warrior follows his/her own light if you will in the dark as a soldier follows the light of others "An army of one"

By the way I asked my teacher this and these are only some of her answers

"A warrior knows how and when to fight, but fighting is rarely at its
wisest when it using fists. A warrior defends life. A warrior works to
reduce the inequalities and fear that create violence. A strong warrior
will be able to take a beating if fighting back would cause more harm
than good. A warrior will use violence to defend life and limb, but a
skilled warrior will fight in the way that causes the least damage. To
fight back in defense and not cause harm to the attacker is the highest
level of fighting technique which we strive for. That is the result if
mastery in mind, body, and spirit. You will know the correct
strategies, understand the power and durability of your body, and have
control of your emotions so as not to be responding in fear or anger,
but in compassion".

[Tgace]

Warrior
Noun
S: (n) warrior (someone engaged in or experienced in warfare)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warrior

A warrior is a person habitually engaged in combat. In tribal societies, warriors often form a caste or class of their own. In feudalism, the vassals essentially form a military or warrior class, even if in actual warfare, peasants may be called to fight as well. In some societies, warfare may be so central that the entire people (or, more often, the male population) may be considered warriors, for example the Maori or Germanic tribes.

Professional warriors are people who are paid money for engaging in military campaigns and fall into one of two catagories: Soldiers; when fighting on behalf of their own state, or Mercenaries; when offering their services commercially and unrelated to their own nationality. The classification of somebody who is involved in acts of violence may be a matter of perspective, and there may be disagreement whether a given person is a hooligan, a gangster, a terrorist, a rebel, a freedom fighter, a mercenary or a soldier.A soldier is more a warrior than some kid/middle class guy who takes a few martial arts lessons, reads a few books, spouts some quotes and imagines himself a "warrior". Wanna be a warrior? Go out and "put it on the line" for something you believe in (in the military or not) or stand up for someone who cant stand up for themselves. The essence of real warriorship is "service". The idea that everywhere I go I hope to make the people around me safer. The whole "mystical warriorship" thing is a free ride. All the glory. None of the risk. The mystical mumbo jumbo is smoke and mirrors for selling books, seminars, workshops and hack philosophy.

[Matt Stone]

Not all soldiers are warriors. Not all warriors are soldiers.

Not all civilians are warriors. Not all warriors are civilians.

I'd concur that mindset has a lot to do with the difference, though I'd further that by saying mindset IS the difference.

Most soldiers I've served with are "soldarii," in it simply for the pay. Few that are "soldarius" are motivated enough to become warriors, as they have to transcend the daily mediocrity of typical garrison life and push themselves to a higher physical, mental, moral, ethical, and even spiritual level. Most Joes just want to get paid, buy new stereo equipment, a new car, take some college on W's dime, get out and get on with their lives...

Let's not forget that while the samurai, as a class, were designated as warriors, there were within their class the lesser warriors who were likely more soldier than warrior and carried swords because law required it... The conscripted troops, like ashigaru, were peasants with no armor, cheap weapons, and were brought to war with the clothes on their back (their helmets, when they had them, doubled for cooking utensils - an old tradition that helps identify a soldier from a warrior that honors his wargear...).

Just my 2 yen.

[Bod]

One of my grandfathers did not fight in the war. He wanted to, but he was an agriculturalist and they were not allowed to go. He says he is glad they didn't let him go now, which makes me believe he really did want to go.

Anyhow he worked long and hard without profit to supply England with food during the war. Although his sacrifice was less great, he was part of the war effort. In many ways it is hard to distinguish between warriors, soldiers and civilians in an age of total war.

Is a medic in a war zone a warrior? What about the concientious objectors who carried stretchers in WW1? What about Alan Turing, a gay academic who never went near the front lines but battled at home in order to become one of the greatest contributors to winning the war, before finally losing that battle and committing suicide?

In WW2, everyone took part in some way or another. The soldiers bore a heavy psychological burden, beyond the danger they faced. The civilians bore losses too. In the modern era the lines between a warrior, civilian and soldier are very blurred. One shouldn't be given credit over the other.

[Drifter]

A soldier is a career, and a warrior is a lifestyle, ethics, values, beliefs, and most importantly, standing up for them out of choice.

Thankfully, many soldiers are warriors nowadays.

[Akidorina]

[QUOTE=Tgace]Warrior
Noun
S: (n) warrior (someone engaged in or experienced in warfare)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warrior
A soldier is more a warrior than some kid/middle class guy who takes a few martial arts lessons, reads a few books, spouts some quotes and imagines himself a "warrior". Wanna be a warrior? Go out and "put it on the line" for something you believe in (in the military or not) or stand up for someone who cant stand up for themselves. The essence of real warriorship is "service".

While I understand what you are saying there is NO NEED to be as harsh as you were!
Wait a minute sense when dose it matter the class you are in? middle class guy?
um...ok I hope you can understand that some people WERE NEVER EVEN MIDDLE CLASS!!!Some people LIKE ME understand like so many others what

its like to starve and know what it's like to watch people you love fade away!Understand that I KNOW WHAT IT MEANS TO GIVE SERVICE!All that I have ever done is care for people!All I have ever done is watch my family fade away!SO PLEASE BE CARFUL OF THE THINGS YOU SAY BECAUSE SOME THINGS HURT OTHERS! I remember being so poor at one point I had to eat out of a trash can...I lived on the streets for three years when I was 8 years old with my DIEING mother and my two big sisters and are abusive stepfather.
I remember one day my mother had a stroke (I paniced) I started screaming "No one cares were going to starve to death here!WE WILL WATCH ARE MOTHER DIE AND THEN WE'LL STARVE TO DEATH!" I remember repeating "I can't take this any more" over and over again..Do you see that my life has been nothing but giving and caring for my mother and my big sisters.SO DON'T TELL ME THAT A SOLDIER IS MORE OF A WARRIOR THEN ONE WHO DEALS WITH POVERTY ALL OF THERE LIVES!I have nearly died of starvation because I would not give up on my mom!
PLEASE WATCH WHAT YOU SAY!

[TigerWoman]

Akidorina, it sounds like you have had a rough start in life. You have suffered alot. But many people suffer and are better because of it. My father too died at age 14. My mother was alive but we had no food either. I remember just bread and milk in the refrigerator at times. A nice woman gave us stew alot. I helped raise my brother and sister in that I worked and did whatever I could and tried to protect them. But I was not a warrior in the definition of that word. I am a survivor of what fate handed me.

World Book dictionary: 1. a fighting man: experienced soldier.
My Zeico dictionary: One engaged or experienced in battle.

You might say that you were or are?... battling for survival but I don't believe this makes you or me, a warrior. I'm sorry for the loss of your mother. She would be proud that you tried your best to help. In that you have the warrior code though, what warriors of old according to the wikipedia dictionary above stated and what warriors valued: loyalty, courage and honor. That is what we in martial arts value. Be strong,Akidorina and take one day at a time. God Bless You. TW

[Tgace]

"You will know the correct strategies, understand the power and durability of your body, and have control of your emotions so as not to be responding in fear or anger, but in compassion".

Easy to lead someone from the path is it not? As you will learn in life, its far easier to believe these type of things than to live them. While Im sorry for your loss, there are people around the world who have been exposed to horrors beyond what you could imagine. That doesnt make them all "warriors".

Warrior/Warriorship is a way overused and misunderstood term. Living your life like a warrior is possible, but far different from "being" a warrior. I can study all the military books, do all the SEAL workouts, buy all kinds of weapons and go to shooting schools and fancy myself a SEAL. But until I jump into enemy territory and put it on the line, Im just playing fantasy games.

When I was your age (this was the 80's keep in mind) , a few close friends and myself fancied ourselves "Ninjas"/Warriors. We had the tabi and black GI's. We climbed cliffs, snuck around the neighborhood at night, read all kinds of books, played "splatball" , did various things that Im suprised never landed us in trouble, went hunting with our dads because it was a "warrior" tradition to hunt, took MA classes, etc. When we all got older our lives took us in various directions. I went to college then the military then became a police officer. One friend is in Iraq now. Another was a Marine and now "serves" the community as a teacher. Some became firemen, paramedics and so on. We all tried to "walk the talk" in various ways, but none of us ever really tried to pass ourselves off as "warriors" in the later years. We are just people doing what we felt we were meant to do.

My point? Your quest to become a "warrior" is honorable and can take your life in exciting and interesting directions as long as you approach it in the right mind and with a perspective on "reality". You are in the "emulation" phase right now. Dont confuse practicing, copying and studying "warrior ways" with being a "warrior".

[Tgace]

http://www.usd.edu/nin/essay6.htm

Interesting read about training in the "warrior arts". Note the author states that this is about "living the life of a warrior" not about "being" a warrior.

[Akidorina]

So you'r saying I have no grip on reality?
Sir with all respect to you...I strongly disagree with you.
I am probably one of the only people my age that actually sees
the messed up truths of reality.
Yet I see you'r point about living the way of the warrior
and I respect the fact that you are willing to share you'r wisdom with me.
I wrote this a wihle ago when I still lived with my mother and I think you may find this interesting to read

Within The World We Dwell

Sadness lingers within the darkness
The walls are closing in and I can not see past this pain.
The more questions I ask the more I will find within.
Always have I seen my mother dieing, and always I have known of starvation.Why Must she never listen to us! We who are her children!
We that have always been there even when we felt as though there was no love at all.I can not deal with the fact that everyone else around me has a NORMAL family!
I am getting tired of trying to stand up from where I lay.
I wish they could just leave me here to die! I stand up again to
see nothing but suffering before my eyes!
I wish I could end the suffering of are dieing world I wish there was somthing I could do to help people like me!
Maybe there is a way to help those like me, and yet I know of no way I am able to do so,For now I sit beside you dear mother as the world is falling apart,I sit beside my only parent in the world and watch her fade away...I have not eaten for a week now and she seems to be getting worse..I can't miss anymore school this year but I can't just leave her in this house alone.What if I come home and she is dead!What if I come home and see her Dying of a stroke,or of cancer,or of Hep-si,or of HIV/AIDS! I can not leave her she is my resbonsability as I was hers!
AGE_9
Belive it or not I was nine when I wrote this..
I still have no idea what kept me alive in that old place...
But all of my suffering made me a strong willed and caring person.
I respect your wisdom and I hope you can see mine.:asian:

Always a humble student _Akidorina:asian:

[Tgace]

Early maturity and "wisdom" are two different things. There are many who possess one but not the other.


Wisdom is often meant as the ability and desire to make choices that can gain approval in a long-term examination by many people. In this sense, to label a choice "wise" implies that the action or inaction was strategically correct when judged by widely-held values.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wisdom

[Wild Bill]

www.ultimatewarrior.com/Souldefine.htm (http://www.ultimatewarrior.com/Souldefine.htm)

[Tgace]

http://www.armystudyguide.com/Warrior-Ethos/