martial arts family tree

[ppko]

Who is in your Martial Arts family tree mine is as followed


Me

1.Tim Foster 2. T. A. Frazer

1.Tom Manson - Tim Wolfe-John Saylor 2. George Dillman,Ken Smith,?

1.Merrit Stevens, ?- John Wolfe- ? 2. Harry Smith,Taika Oyata-Remy Presas

1.?,? 2. ?-Uhugushuku,Wakinaguri,Nakamura-?

2.?,?,Hanishiro

2.Nabe Matsumura

2.Soken Matsumura

2.Sakagawa

2.Kusanku

#1 is my first instructor and his lineage

#2 is my current instructor and his lineage

I am not sure of some of the background this is just a spur of the moment thread

special note

Tom Manson is the founder of Tokoshi Martial Arts

George Dillman is the head of Dillman Karate International

Taika Oyata is the head and founder of Ryu-Te

T.A. Frazer is the head and founder of Jodoryu Jujitsu International

John Saylor is the head and founder of Shin-Gi-Tai Jujitsu

Tim Wolfe is the head of Black Panther Combat Gung-Fu

John Wolfe is the Founder

Ken Smith is on the board of directors for the IMAF and also a master of Tapi Tapi

Remy Presas Founded Modern Arnis

[RRouuselot]

Who is in your Martial Arts family tree mine is as followed

Me

Tim Foster T. A. Frazer

Tom Manson - Tim Wolfe-John Saylor George Dillman,?

Merrit Stevens, ?- John Wolfe- ? Harry Smith, Taika Oyata

? ?,Uhugushuku,Wakinaguri,Nakamura

?,?,Hanishiro

Nabe Matsumura

Soken Matsumura

Sakagawa

Kusanku
I was on a leave of absence from this place but I just happened to read this.



Hold the bloody phone.

Don’t even think you have a connection to Taika Oyata, Uhugushuku or Wakinaguri.

Your pal Dillman came to 6 seminars given by Taika Oyata hardly what I would call “extensive” training and certainly not worthy of claiming any connection or linage.



Here is why:



Q: Does Dillman know let alone teach Shihohapo no te? Do you know it?

A: No. Both Dillman and you do not know it.

Q: Does Dillman know/teach any of the kobudo taught by Uhugushuku? Do you know any of it?

A: Again. No. Neither of you know it.



If you don’t know any of the above you CAN NOT claim any connection to Oyata, Uhugushuku, or Wakinaguri.

[ppko]

I was on a leave of absence from this place but I just happened to read this.



Hold the bloody phone.

Don’t even think you have a connection to Taika Oyata, Uhugushuku or Wakinaguri.

Your pal Dillman came to 6 seminars given by Taika Oyata hardly what I would call “extensive” training and certainly not worthy of claiming any connection or linage.



Here is why:



Q: Does Dillman know let alone teach Shihohapo no te? Do you know it?

A: No.

Q: Does Dillman know/teach any of the kobudo taught by Uhugushuku? Do you know any of it?

A: No.



If you don’t know any of the above you CAN NOT claim any connection to Oyata, Uhugushuku, or Wakinaguri.Mr. Dillman does hold rank from Mr. Oyata does he not, I was listing Mr. Oyatas lineage after Mr. Dillmans

[RRouuselot]

Mr. Dillman does hold rank from Mr. Oyata does he not, I was listing Mr. Oyatas lineage after Mr. Dillmans
Dillman holds an “Honorary” 7th dan and he has been waving that around like it was like a real one. The Commandant of the US Marine Corps. Also holds “Honorary” rank from Taika Oyata…..key word here folks is “Honorary”…..it’s not the same as REAL rank.



As I said above. Neither of you have any idea about Uhugushuku or Wakinaguri’s art therefore you can’t claim any connection to it.

[ppko]

Dillman holds an “Honorary” 7th dan and he has been waving that around like it was like a real one. The Commandant of the US Marine Corps. Also holds “Honorary” rank from Taika Oyata…..key word here folks is “Honorary”…..it’s not the same as REAL rank.



As I said above. Neither of you have any idea about Uhugushuku or Wakinaguri’s art therefore you can’t claim any connection to it.Like I said before that is Mr. Oyatas lineage those were two of his teachers were they not.

[RRouuselot]

Like I said before that is Mr. Oyatas lineage those were two of his teachers were they not.

Your first post:


Who is in your Martial Arts family tree mine is as followed
You are not connected to Oyata, Uhugushuku or Wakinaguri.

ANyway, here is a little quiz for you since you seem to think you have a connection to Mr. Uhugushuku’s and Mr. Wakinaguri’s arts.


Q: What are the opening moves of ShiHoHapo no Te?


Q: How is Uhugushuku’s kobudo different……..specifically regarding the use of the Bo?

These are EXTREMELY basic questions that anyone connected to to Mr. Uhugushuku’s and Mr. Wakinaguri’s arts could answer in a flash.

[ppko]

Your first post:


You are not connected to Oyata, Uhugushuku or Wakinaguri.

ANyway, here is a little quiz for you since you seem to think you have a connection to Mr. Uhugushuku’s and Mr. Wakinaguri’s arts.


Q: What are the opening moves of ShiHoHapo no Te?


Q: How is Uhugushuku’s kobudo different……..specifically regarding the use of the Bo?

These are EXTREMELY basic questions that anyone connected to to Mr. Uhugushuku’s and Mr. Wakinaguri’s arts could answer in a flash.Mr. Rouselot how are family trees set up let me tell you you first start of with yourself and any siblings, next is your parents, after that is your grandparents , and so on it can be more complicated or less so if Oyata trained with the above mentioned people and Dillman trained with Oyata than they would shape how Mr. Oyata taught and thought in his Martial Arts. I do not know the answer to your question and I really don't care but like it or not Oyata had an influence on Dillman and Oyatas instructors had an influence on him so in a way they are in my tree

[RRouuselot]

Mr. Rouselot how are family trees set up let me tell you you first start of with yourself and any siblings, next is your parents, after that is your grandparents , and so on it can be more complicated or less so if Oyata trained with the above mentioned people and Dillman trained with Oyata than they would shape how Mr. Oyata taught and thought in his Martial Arts. I do not know the answer to your question and I really don't care but like it or not Oyata had an influence on Dillman and Oyatas instructors had an influence on him so in a way they are in my tree Only an idiot would claim he was a “student” let alone included them in sort of family tree after going to only 6 seminars….basically read holding a video camera and not really training.

That’s like putting every girl you dated in your family tree…….which is kind of stupid.

Dillman knows precious little about what Oyata teaches.

So is everyone that has bought and been influenced by Mr. Oyata’s training tapes his student?

Hell no.

Your logic is severely flawed.
Yet again you try to worm your way into making people think you actually know something about what Mr. Oyata teaches.

[ppko]

Only an idiot would claim he was a “student” let alone included them in sort of family tree after going to only 6 seminars….basically read holding a video camera and not really training.

That’s like putting every girl you dated in your family tree…….which is kind of stupid.

Dillman knows precious little about what Oyata teaches.

So is everyone that has bought and been influenced by Mr. Oyata’s training tapes his student?

Hell no.

Your logic is severely flawed.Is that the best you can do I was hoping for something a little more intelectual from someone with as high of an IQ as you.

[RRouuselot]

Is that the best you can do I was hoping for something a little more intelectual from someone with as high of an IQ as you. Oh here they come……can't defend your point of view with facts or reason so bring on the personal insults. :rolleyes:

[ppko]

Oh here they come……can defend your point of view with facts or reason so bring on the personal insults. :rolleyes:No I think that you know that I am in the right and you are just being stubborn, Mr. Oyata had plenty of influence on Mr. Dillmans teaching and he must have done something at these seminars or he wouldn't have found out how to work the Pressure points like he does and I doubt that your instructor woul have gave him any rank if he didn't train.

[Bester]

Hey,
Can we skip the kindergarden school yard battles and just go back to listing family trees? But, go a bit more indepth and list art and rank.

But just the real ranks, not the honorarys, political promotions, cross promotions or self promotions.

The ones they tested for.
Not bought.

:wavey:

(Goes back to the dungeon it's feeding time for the Sokes they puts the lotion on their skin, or they get the hoser again )

[mj-hi-yah]

Moderator Note.

Please keep the discussion at a mature, respectful level. Please review our sniping policy. http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php.?t=314 Feel free to use the Ignore feature to ignore members whose posts you do not wish to read (it is at the bottom of each member's profile). Thank you.
Thank you,

-MJ
-MT Moderator-

[ppko]

Hey,
Can we skip the kindergarden school yard battles and just go back to listing family trees? But, go a bit more indepth and list art and rank.

But just the real ranks, not the honorarys, political promotions, cross promotions or self promotions.

The ones they tested for.
Not bought.

:wavey:

(Goes back to the dungeon it's feeding time for the Sokes they puts the lotion on their skin, or they get the hoser again )Thank you lets get back to listing the martial family trees

[RRouuselot]

No I think that you know that I am in the right and you are just being stubborn, Mr. Oyata had plenty of influence on Mr. Dillmans teaching and he must have done something at these seminars or he wouldn't have found out how to work the Pressure points like he does and I doubt that your instructor woul have gave him any rank if he didn't train.
Is the word “Honorary” lost on you?

Dillman got “Honorary”…….you don’t train and get “Honorary” rank.

Dillman NEVER tested for rank from Mr. Oyata.

[ppko]

Is the word “Honorary” lost on you?

Dillman got “Honorary”…….you don’t train and get “Honorary” rank.

Dillman NEVER tested for rank from Mr. Oyata.Well that is what you say, but anyway lets get back to the thread

[RRouuselot]

Well that is what you say, but anyway lets get back to the thread
That is not “what I say” that is a fact.

I am sure you would love to blow this over.

However, since you posted it and claim it in this thread it IS on topic to this thread.

[ppko]

That is not “what I say” that is a fact.

I am sure you would love to blow this over.

However, since you posted it and claim it in this thread it IS on topic to this thread.I posted my answers so as far as I am concerned this matter is closed.

[Bester]

Lets solve this one.
- What rank does Dillman hold that he tested for, and under who?

[ppko]

Lets solve this one.
- What rank does Dillman hold that he tested for, and under who?I am not sure I have not asked him as he is not my teacher but rather my instructors teacher. I know that he trained with Harry Smith, Daniel K. Pai, Robert Trias, and Taika Oyata (I forgot the other two earlier) what rank he holds under whom I do not know. He has many different ranks under different organizations but I cannot answer your question.

[RRouuselot]

Lets solve this one.
- What rank does Dillman hold that he tested for, and under who?
According to James Coffamn Dillman lied about his rank starting with shodan


http://www.viewusedcars.com/smoka-usa/dillman.htm

I know for a fact he never tested with my teacher Taika Oyata but was given an “Honorary” rank as I stated before.

there are a lot more of Dillman's claims to rank and training debunked here:
http://www.smoka-usa.com/

[Bester]

http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=24048

[ppko]

According to James Coffamn Dillman lied about his rank starting with shodan


http://www.viewusedcars.com/smoka-usa/dillman.htm

I know for a fact he never tested with my teacher Taika Oyata but was given an “Honorary” rank as I stated before.yeah that guy knows :rolleyes: he has had it out for Mr. Dillman for a long time, anytime that you are as big a name as George is than you are bound to have your haters. Some of things that he has on there is total bunk anyways. It is common knowledge that he broke ice for Ripleys and I doubt that they would have allowed that to happen.

[RRouuselot]

Moderator Note.

Please keep the discussion at a mature, respectful level. Please review our sniping policy. http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php.?t=314 Feel free to use the Ignore feature to ignore members whose posts you do not wish to read (it is at the bottom of each member's profile). Thank you.
Thank you,

-MJ
-MT Moderator-

It’s pretty difficult to respect someone that makes dubious claims of a connection to your teacher and your art….not once but several times.

Using the “ignore button” will not solve this problem.

[RRouuselot]

yeah that guy knows :rolleyes: he has had it out for Mr. Dillman for a long time, anytime that you are as big a name as George is than you are bound to have your haters.
This is a common excuse used by some people that have been exposed for what they really are.

Mr. Oyata and several others are as big or bigger than Dillman, and yet I don’t read page after page of “Oyata haters” on the internet.

[RRouuselot]

yeah that guy knows :rolleyes: he has had it out for Mr. Dillman for a long time, anytime that you are as big a name as George is than you are bound to have your haters.
Yes that guy does “know”.

Dillman’s claim to be a student or having a connection has been preoven to be bull.

Coffman was a student of Kise, and Hohan Soken, he was there when Dillman claimed his “secret meeting” with Hohan.

[BlackCatBonz]

here we go again

[Bester]

Point: RR - Dillman at best is misrepresenting his rank, at worst an all out fraud.
Point: PP - Dillman is a big target. People will seek to discredit him.

Neither point contradicts the other.
RR has indicated that Dillmans rank is honorary, not a tested for one.
PP has not denied it.

I think that (and a hundred previous posts) sums things up.
We can move on from here. Continuing to argue will only result in axes falling.

[RRouuselot]

here we go again
Beleive me nobody would rather not get into this again than me but I will not sit by and let someone make claims to my teacher, his art and his lineage that has no right to.


Hell I was going to take about a month vacation from this place because I get sick and tired of this kind of crap.

[ppko]

This is a common excuse used by some people that have been exposed for what they really are.

Mr. Oyata and several others are as big or bigger than Dillman, and yet I don’t read page after page of “Oyata haters” on the internet.you haven't exposed anything about what i really am nor anyone else for that matter. Your teacher is a well respected individual in tha Martial Arts and he always will be, I have nothing but respect and admiration for your teacher (even though I have never met him) he has done quite a bit for the Martial Arts and anyone that can learn from him should. Mr. Dillman was exposed to your teacher and obviously picked up some things from him, Mr. Dillman has done a lot for the Martial Arts and that will never be changed

[RRouuselot]

you haven't exposed anything about what i really am nor anyone else for that matter.........
Uh…..you misread my post. Nobody was talking about you, your teacher/pal/mentor or whatever he is to you has been exposed for making not one but MANY false claims to rank and training.

[ppko]

Uh…..you misread my post. Nobody was talking about you, your teacher/pal/mentor or whatever he is to you has been exposed for making not one but MANY false claims to rank and training.Ok sorry about the confusion, but yet you say that Mr. Dillman has been discredited which he hasn't just because it is writtedn on the internet does not make it true

[RRouuselot]

Point: RR - Dillman at best is misrepresenting his rank, at worst an all out fraud.
Point: PP - Dillman is a big target. People will seek to discredit him.

Neither point contradicts the other.
RR has indicated that Dillmans rank is honorary, not a tested for one.
PP has not denied it.

I think that (and a hundred previous posts) sums things up.
We can move on from here. Continuing to argue will only result in axes falling.
All ppko needs to do is stop claiming he has some sort of connection to Oyata, Uhugushuku and Wakinaguri……….and the problem will be solved.
Hell I wouldn't have even posted on MT for about another month or so but I just happend to read the BULL on this thread.

[ppko]

here we go againI hate being in these arguments but I will not stand by and let him make claims against the organization that I am with

[shesulsa]

Moderator Note. ~~SECOND WARNING~~

Please keep the discussion at a mature, respectful level. Please review our sniping policy. http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=314 (showthread.php?t=314) Feel free to use the Ignore feature to ignore members whose posts you do not wish to read (it is at the bottom of each member's profile). Thank you.

-Georgia Ketchmark (shesulsa)
-Senior Moderator-

[ppko]

All ppko needs to do is stop claiming he has some sort of connection to Oyata, Uhugushuku and Wakinaguri……….and the problem will be solvedMy only connection with Oyata is the fact that he helped shape Dillman into the teacher that he is and the other two people helped shape Oyata

[Bester]

Guys, we can solve this simply.
Just meet in a park, walk 10 paces and turn and fire.
First one to knock the other down with their chi wins.

:wavey:

[RRouuselot]

I hate being in these arguments but I will not stand by and let him make claims against the organization that I am with I have made no claims against your organization. I have posted facts about what I have seen and substantiated those “claims”.

Have you ever seen the "Honorary" rank Dillman got?

[ppko]

Moderator Note. ~~SECOND WARNING~~

Please keep the discussion at a mature, respectful level. Please review our sniping policy. http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=314 (http://showthread.php/?t=314) Feel free to use the Ignore feature to ignore members whose posts you do not wish to read (it is at the bottom of each member's profile). Thank you.

-Georgia Ketchmark (shesulsa)
-Senior Moderator-I am trying to keep this as respectfully as possible, I like reading Mr. Rouselots posts sometimes as he has some very informitive information sometimes

[ppko]

Guys, we can solve this simply.
Just meet in a park, walk 10 paces and turn and fire.
First one to knock the other down with their chi wins.

:wavey:LOL

[ppko]

Have you ever seen the "Honorary" rank Dillman got?No I haven't

[terryl965]

Well he is mine

Terry Lee Stoker
Grand Master Gin Kim
Master Jim Kim
Master Drill Instructor W.R. Stoker Sr.
Grand Master Isaki Nygun
Grand Master Lee suk Uen I believe the spelling is correct.
Others that has helped along the way Allen Combe, Brian Combe, Dr. Brax Boyd, Mr. David Nutt, Mr & Mrs Bergmen, Mr. Agoun and the rest of the gang. My son's for which is why I still teach and my wonderful wife for without her understanding I cannot keep going.
I hope to see all this petty stuff goes away and get back on topic I would love to see the linage of some of you guys. I know my father trained with alot of great folks but seminars and a couple of month here and there does not relate to true training, being in the Military all those years we where at alot of great dojo and dojaangs over sea's which I could remember everybody but to many to name.

[RRouuselot]

No I haven't
I see. Since you haven’t seen it then you wouldn’t know that it is very different from the ones he gives people that actually tested for rank.

[ppko]

Well he is mine

Terry Lee Stoker
Grand Master Gin Kim
Master Jim Kim
Master Drill Instructor W.R. Stoker Sr.
Grand Master Isaki Nygun
Grand Master Lee suk Uen I believe the spelling is correct.
Others that has helped along the way Allen Combe, Brian Combe, Dr. Brax Boyd, Mr. David Nutt, Mr & Mrs Bergmen, Mr. Agoun and the rest of the gang. My son's for which is why I still teach and my wonderful wife for without her understanding I cannot keep going.
I hope to see all this petty stuff goes away and get back on topic I would love to see the linage of some of you guys. I know my father trained with alot of great folks but seminars and a couple of month here and there does not relate to true training, being in the Military all those years we where at alot of great dojo and dojaangs over sea's which I could remember everybody but to many to name.Good are some of these guys the instructors of your instructor

[ppko]

I see. Since you haven’t seen it then you wouldn’t know that it is very different from the ones he gives people that actually tested for rank.How would I, I am not in Ryu-Te

[terryl965]

The ones under my father names was he's instructors and the one's at the end are people I've trained with over the years, Gin Kim and Jim Kim I trained with not my father.

[ppko]

The ones under my father names was he's instructors and the one's at the end are people I've trained with over the years, Gin Kim and Jim Kim I trained with not my father.Thanks for you answer just wasn't for sure how it was written I would love to see some of the other peoples lineage as well

[RRouuselot]

How would I, I am not in Ryu-Te They were different even before RyuTe® was started.

In fact RyuTe® Renmei was started because Dillman started using Ryukyu Kempo (the old name used by Mr. Oyata) Mr. Oyata had to change Ryukyu Kempo to RyuTe® Renmei, RyuTe® Renmei is a registered trademark so Dillman could no longer associate himself with Mr. Oyata or claim some sort of connection.

Does everyone now see the drastic measures that had to be taken by Mr. Oyata to keep Dillman from claiming any sort of connection to his art or teachers.

[shesulsa]

~THREAD LOCKED PENDING ADMIN REVIEW

~GEORGIA KETCHMARK
~SENIOR MODERATOR