Enough is Enough

[BruceCalkins]

I give up trying to explain to everyone about my title and my art. If you like it great. If not too bad. I have trained for 37 years and am not going to throw it away because someone on a chat group thinks he knows mor or his style is better.
I never tryed to put my self in the light if the great masters of old by taking this title or rank. Just as I have enough respect of some of my fellow instructors to feel that I am not their equal. I do not try to be the equal of someone else only the best I can be.
Fusho-Satori-Ryu if a fine strong system and it stands on it's own merit But if you have never tried it please don't knock it. You don't know what you are talking about. As for my history.
The History of Martial Arts has been written many different ways. If you ask the Japanese they designed Karate with no ones help. If you Ask the Chinese they created it. My resurch has shown of the study of Buddha Darma from India training the monk of China and the spread was from there. An as or Shorin Ryu I have read manuscripts that claim that Shorin-Ryu was based on Chinese Kung-Fu and Shaolin Kung-Fu. The Fact that the Japanese have trouble pronouncing the "L" would make Shaolin = Shorin And Ryu is Style. Shaolin Style To Shorin Ryu...

[clfsean]

Bodhidharma... not Buddha Darma...

Damo in China
Daruma in Japan

[Robert Carver]

An as or Shorin Ryu I have read manuscripts that claim that Shorin-Ryu was based on Chinese Kung-Fu and Shaolin Kung-Fu. The Fact that the Japanese have trouble pronouncing the "L" would make Shaolin = Shorin And Ryu is Style. Shaolin Style To Shorin Ryu...
Ah, not quite. Shaolin in Mandarin means "Young Forest". Shorin means "Small Forest", "Young Forest" or "Pine Forest" (all three are pronouced shorin). The Japanese reading for the Chinese characters for Shaolin is "Shorin-ji". So "Shorin" is the Japanese pronounciation of "xxx forest" and not because they cannot pronounce an L. (I will have to tell my Shorinryu Sensei about this one!).

[Andrew Green]

Well...

10th dan in Japanese systems tends to have a minimum time training of 50+ years.

As well as a minimum age of 70 or so...

Soke is not really a rank that can be aquired through any amount of training or creating, it has to do with a inherited position dating back to Feudal times...

And as pointed out your history is wrong...

So what do you want us to think?

This is a public forum, and it is an open forum. Making big claims to rank and title is gonna get you called on it regardless of whether you think you are deserving of them or not.

If your stuff stands on its own merit get rid of the rank and title in your profile and user name and let it. "10th dan Soke" sets off red flags for most people, and for good reason. But prove us wrong, be a "nobody" and let your words speak for you, not your rank and title.

[Bester]

Wise man once say "One person say you a fool, fool is he. 20 people say you are fool, you should listen."

Mr. Calkins, in case you have not noticed, you have had about 20 people here say you are wrong. These people have in most cases trained for extended periods of time (say decades) in various non-related traditional arts. Several of them live in the countries whose customs and history you have repeatedly mis-stated. Many of these same individuals are well known to not agree on anything as simple as the day of the week, yet they are repeatedly in agreement that your facts are in error.

You claim certain words mean something, yet educated fact disputes that.
You claim the title of "Soke", yet it was granted to you by individuals who honestly do not have the ability to do so. In addition, your definition is in error.

You may be an excellent martial artist, but your facts in many areas are sadly in error.

One may state repeatedly that the geographic location north of the US is Mexico and that the language there is Italian. That does not make it true. The same is true of your claimed facts.

I am sorry sir, but you are no more a real Soke than I am a real Psi-Cop. This forum is an excellent place to exchange ideas. We simply wish them to be factual.

[Akashiro Tamaya]

I give up trying to explain to everyone about my title and my art. If you like it great. If not too bad. I have trained for 37 years and am not going to throw it away because someone on a chat group thinks he knows mor or his style is better.
I never tryed to put my self in the light if the great masters of old by taking this title or rank. Just as I have enough respect of some of my fellow instructors to feel that I am not their equal. I do not try to be the equal of someone else only the best I can be.

Fusho-Satori-Ryu if a fine strong system and it stands on it's own merit But if you have never tried it please don't knock it. You don't know what you are talking about. As for my history.

The History of Martial Arts has been written many different ways. If you ask the Japanese they designed Karate with no ones help. If you Ask the Chinese they created it. My resurch has shown of the study of Buddha Darma from India training the monk of China and the spread was from there. An as or Shorin Ryu I have read manuscripts that claim that Shorin-Ryu was based on Chinese Kung-Fu and Shaolin Kung-Fu. The Fact that the Japanese have trouble pronouncing the "L" would make Shaolin = Shorin And Ryu is Style. Shaolin Style To Shorin Ryu...


Your style is not questioned here, its your integrity. In case you lacked the understanding of the word integrity, it means The quality or condition of being whole or undivided; completeness.

Where in the world of Hiditora's madness did you get the fact that the Japanese cannot pronouce the letter "L"

Just in case you got lost please return back to the thread dedicated to you and your art. running away or ignoring will caused you and your art more damage in your reputation.

Here's the link:

http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=23929

[TonyU]

Maybe that's why you don't get any repect.
First, like Andre stated, soke is not something one just titles himself and you definitley aren't old enough or been in the arts long enough.

Second, your history is incorrect. Maybe you should do some more "resurch".

Also as a Shorin Ryu practioner of only approx 20 years, I find your post based on ignorance and it's embarrassing.

[The Kai]

An as or Shorin Ryu I have read manuscripts that claim that Shorin-Ryu was based on Chinese Kung-Fu and Shaolin Kung-Fu.

Would'nt these be the same thing. Kinda like saying that I combined Mexican cooking with Tacos and came up with a new meal...

BTW You really have'nt answered a lot of the questions.
And as a piece of advice - don't try to back up your position with facts anymore, every time you open your mouth you show more ignorance

[Rich Parsons]

Tread moved from Meet and Greet to this forum.
Meet and Greet is designed for saying hi, and informal greetings.

Thank you

Rich Parsons
Martial Talk
Super Moderator

[ginshun]

I am still waiting for more info on the Black Star Ninjitsu school in the Texas town that doesn't exist.

[chinto01]

Mr.Calkins thank you for your response yet again. I have been waiting to see your next post but unfortunately you had it in the wrong forum. I agree with everyone in saying that you have brought alot of this upon yourself by your screenname and stating that you have created your own style. If you truley understood what your title meant you might not had even brought it up. I am still interested in you answering some of the questions I had for you before. These should be easy questions for a "Soke" to answer. I have been a student of shorin-ryu kara-te for almost 20 years and your reasoning for the name shorin is interesting to say the least. I think 99.9% of us would also tend to agree that kara-te has its roots in China kind of hard not to when Okinawa had done a fair amount of trading with China back then and the Chinese goverment had people living on Okinawa who were skilled in gung-fu. Anyways I will still wait for you to answer my questions. Like I have said before it does not matter to me wether you call yourself "Soke", "Hanshi", "Shibucho", or any other title you can pay for. You are the one that has to justify yourself to your students. Just remember as I have stated before that you have a great responsibility to your students now. I am still interested in the forms that you are teaching. What were they again? I would also like to see your lineage chart. Should be easy as it will all point to you right?

[TimoS]

The Japanese reading for the Chinese characters for Shaolin is "Shorin-ji".

To borrow your words, "ah, not quite" ;) Shorin-ji would be Shaolin temple, and Shaolin itself would be Shorin (in my very limited japanese)

[TimoS]

Where in the world of Hiditora's madness did you get the fact that the Japanese cannot pronouce the letter "L"

Well, at least my sensei (who is japanese) sometimes has trouble with "L". For example, I once heard him say that the next weekend he would be teaching in "ratuvia" (or something like that). I had to ask the older practitioners at our dojo that where is sensei going to be and the answer was "Latvia". Sensei speaks finnish quite fluently, after all he's been here for over 25 years, but sometimes it's a bit hard to understand what he's trying to say (then our usual response is "Hai!" :))

[Robert Carver]

To borrow your words, "ah, not quite" ;) Shorin-ji would be Shaolin temple, and Shaolin itself would be Shorin (in my very limited japanese)
Thank you for the correction! I even looked back in my reference material to make sure I had not lost my mind, but I must have been laughing about the "L" business and forgot to type the "temple" part. ;)

One thing that you might note. Shorin is not Japanese for Shaolin, but it is Japanese for "Small/Pine/Young Forest", just as "ichi" is not the Japanese translation of the English word "one". It is rather the Japanese word for the thing or concept of the number. So Shorin is not the Japanese word for the Chinese word, but for XXX forest.

At least I am not trying to say it was because I or someone could not pronounce a particular consonant!

[TimoS]

One thing that you might note. Shorin is not Japanese for Shaolin, but it is Japanese for "Small/Pine/Young Forest", just as "ichi" is not the Japanese translation of the English word "one". It is rather the Japanese word for the thing or concept of the number. So Shorin is not the Japanese word for the Chinese word, but for XXX forest.

Oh, okay. I didn't know that. Thanks. Hmm, maybe I'll ask my sensei about this and see what he says (that is, if I remember to bring it up when I see him tomorrow)


At least I am not trying to say it was because I or someone could not pronounce a particular consonant!

Heh :)

[Robert Carver]

Oh, okay. I didn't know that. Thanks. Hmm, maybe I'll ask my sensei about this and see what he says (that is, if I remember to bring it up when I see him tomorrow)

No problem! That's why we come to places like this is to learn something new. One other thing to keep in mind is that Shorin is likely the reading of the Chinese characters for Shaolin. However, unlike English and most other languages, Chinese & Japanese characters for Shaolin are not literally "young forest" but are characters which convey the concept of a "young forest". So Shorin would be the Japanese word for describing the concept of a young forest.

Did that make sense or did I totally confuse you? ;)

[47MartialMan]

Factual data about Bodhidharma teaching fighting arts is not evident.

Factual data that there were "fighting monks" may not be total truth. I have read that there were so many renegades, rebels, amd the like given sanctuary there, they many were in cognito as monks. Making others believe that there were fighting monks.

Given the structure of Buddhism, why would Buddhist monks desire to fight?

[47MartialMan]

Well...

10th dan in Japanese systems tends to have a minimum time training of 50+ years..As well as a minimum age of 70 or so...Yes, in accordance with that/Japan's standard. But does he state that he teaches and relates to Japanese standards? Per in his title does he says he is a Japanese 10th Dan/Soke-or 10thDan Soke from Japan...whatever....?



Soke is not really a rank that can be aquired through any amount of training or creating, it has to do with a inherited position dating back to Feudal times....It is bestowed upon whom from whom? Is it a term that cannot be use in these times?



This is a public forum, and it is an open forum. Making big claims to rank and title is gonna get you called on it regardless of whether you think you are deserving of them or not..I have to agree upon this. Upon doing this, anywhere he goes, he will be questioned.


If your stuff stands on its own merit get rid of the rank and title in your profile and user name and let it. "10th dan Soke" sets off red flags for most people, and for good reason. But prove us wrong, be a "nobody" and let your words speak for you, not your rank and title.I have to agree upon this-per merit. (The same with all of these people whom claim to be Shaolin Monks...or Shaolin Kung Fu-why use the name-shaolin and not stand on merit alone) This is why I have no desire to lay claim to ranking. But others will state their ranking, be it a 1st, 2nd. 3rd,....whatever. Why should anyone state any rank? Why should there be rank in the first place?

[47MartialMan]

Ah, not quite. Shaolin in Mandarin means "Young Forest". Shorin means "Small Forest", "Young Forest" or "Pine Forest" (all three are pronouced shorin). The Japanese reading for the Chinese characters for Shaolin is "Shorin-ji". So "Shorin" is the Japanese pronounciation of "xxx forest" and not because they cannot pronounce an L. (I will have to tell my Shorinryu Sensei about this one!).So, with all of these "Forests", they do not share a common or pivotal point.
You say tomatoe-I say tomato......
A rose by any other name......

What about Ch'en verse Zen?

Ko Fu verses Kung Fu?

[47MartialMan]

Wise man once say "One person say you a fool, fool is he. 20 people say you are fool, you should listen.".I guess that depends on where those 20 have origins. Pro-life-pro choice,,,,Theology/Atheism...


Mr. Calkins, in case you have not noticed, you have had about 20 people here say you are wrong. These people have in most cases trained for extended periods of time (say decades) in various non-related traditional arts. Several of them live in the countries whose customs and history you have repeatedly mis-stated. Many of these same individuals are well known to not agree on anything as simple as the day of the week, yet they are repeatedly in agreement that your facts are in error..20 people? Any non-Japanese martial artists think so?


You claim certain words mean something, yet educated fact disputes that. ..If I don't live in England, I cant speak English? One word can't mean two diferrent things? Can a word be butchered to take on a whole new meaning? Is there such a thing as slang? Are slang words correct words or cannot be used?



You claim the title of "Soke", yet it was granted to you by individuals who honestly do not have the ability to do so. In addition, your definition is in error..If individuals around him, be it separate from his own creation, his surrounding peers, believe so, then he believes so.


You may be an excellent martial artist, but your facts in many areas are sadly in error..I have to agree.


One may state repeatedly that the geographic location north of the US is Mexico and that the language there is Italian. That does not make it true. The same is true of your claimed facts...This is interesting.


I am sorry sir, but you are no more a real Soke than I am a real Psi-Cop. This forum is an excellent place to exchange ideas. We simply wish them to be factual.Everyone has opinions.
My opinion, I am not concerned with him being a Soke, 10th Dan, as much as he does. he may not realize it is not the rank that make him who he is or his abilities. For sure, IMHO, I wouldn't have gone as far to obtain such a high rank. I have been the martial arts from over 3 decades and I still dont considermysekf as a master, grandmaster, or etc. I deal with many people every day whom "toot their own horns". Some, after seeing them in action (not just the subject of martial arts), I find out in person that they (some) have not what they claim in such ability or otherwise. I am not concerned with the total ranking issue. Years experience is what counts, IMHO. (Don't go off on a tangent and state that it is years of experiencing BC. How can one judge what is B.C., without going and working out with the dude). HOWEVER-I am not gullable enough to call him Soke, or take for granted that he is allowed this title. I will call him a martial artist and will remain polite. Hoping that he may have something less controversal to say or post his opinion on another subject.

Mr Calkins-A little advice-take the "5th" and post general experiences not related to rank or issues that may seemingly be scrutinized by others. Post why you like teaching, confrontational experiences, something that you had learned the hard way about, what are some goals, dealings with injuries or any injury acquired, other things that you had studied that will aid your martial art (First Aid, CPR, Tae Bo-:erg:...). And find, at least one teacher, whom has any lineage that will further your teaching and give better charecter to your many years of work and add much merit. It maybe better to learn from a unlown without rank, or acknowledgement of, than to be in league with people of past whom have questionable merit.

[evenflow1121]

I think he is referred to as Buddha Dharma in some Indian regions, someone can correct me on this if I a happen to be wrong.

[Brother John]

If your stuff stands on its own merit get rid of the rank and title in your profile and user name and let it. be a "nobody" and let your words speak for you, not your rank and title.

I like this outlook and think it deserves much consideration, for Mr. Calkins and the rest of us.

Your Brother
John

[Akashiro Tamaya]

I think he is referred to as Buddha Dharma in some Indian regions, someone can correct me on this if I a happen to be wrong.

Bodhidama is what history knows him as as. I have never heard of Buddha Dharma.

[Drac]

If your stuff stands on its own merit get rid of the rank and title in your profile and user name and let it. "10th dan Soke" sets off red flags for most people, and for good reason. But prove us wrong, be a "nobody" and let your words speak for you, not your rank and title.
Words of wisdom in this post..

[Bester]

I guess that depends on where those 20 have origins. Pro-life-pro choice,,,,Theology/Atheism...
True.


20 people? Any non-Japanese martial artists think so?
Me? As to the rest, I don't know. Does it matter?


If I don't live in England, I cant speak English? One word can't mean two diferrent things? Can a word be butchered to take on a whole new meaning? Is there such a thing as slang? Are slang words correct words or cannot be used?
There is "American" English and "English" English.
We are not talking about slang, we are talking about traditional titles being misused. "Soke" is Japanese, not English. In Japan, the word does NOT mean "Founder" which these fools keep incorrectly claiming it does. Stating it repeatedly does not change that fact anymore than calling a clear lemon-lime carbonated beverage "Coke" makes it a cola.

Founder is not "Soke".
Founder is "Setsuritsusha" (Literally, "One who founds")

Most of these title happy fools aren't teaching Asian arts.
So why do they insist on misusing Asian words?

There is a clown who thumbs his nose at traditional arts, did most of his training in his back yard based on movie stunts, has a korean background, but insists on being called "sensei" and uses a misspelling of a Japanese art for the name of his gymnastics scam. We should accept this?

Now we have Mr, Calkins here, who has been "awarded" (meaning paid a registration fee in some manner) the title of "Soke". He believes it means "Founder" despite the repeated comments of individuals who speak Japanese and evidence otherwise. Many of the individuals on the "Council" that "awarded" (IE sold) this title to him have questionable if not outright fraudulant backgrounds and reputations. His posted history has holes in it, his credentials aren't helping him out, and his own grasp of history is causing problems for him.

He claimed a title, but doesn't really know what it means.
He has professed expertize in areas that he has been shown he is mistaken.
He hides behind "budo", "brotherhood" and "bushido", while seeming to only know the movie versions.
He claims training in arts that no one can locate information of, outside of movie tie-ins.

If he truely understood the concepts he has been complaining we do not, he would have humbly accepted the corrections, expanded his own knowledge base, and grown. Instead, he whines about us, stamps his feet about his 30+ years training, and thinks we somehow owe him.

Sorry. Wrong.

I will take the expert opinion on what foriegn words mean when it comes from a person living in the nation of origin, who speaks it daily.
Not from a wanne-be who's watched a few too many kung fu flicks, and bought his credentials from a mutual-love society.


If individuals around him, be it separate from his own creation, his surrounding peers, believe so, then he believes so.
So, if all my friends and peers think I'm the Son of God...I am?
Cool.


Mr. Calkins, as well as many others may be excellent martial artists.
Where they run into problems is the misuse of foriegn words and titles to add some sense of 'mystisism' to their programs.
Calling it "Fugu-Ryu, taught by Kami-Soke" is "mysterious, but pompous.
Calling it "Calm of the Storm School, Mr. Kami - Founder and Head Instructor", thats in english, no pompous, but still has that little 'mystisism we all like.

The problem I have with these 'people', is that you talk to them, and it's "This is Sensei Joe", or "My name is Soke Smith". As we said, 1 WNY school has 107 "Senseis" on staff, most not old enough to shave, or even stay up past 8pm.

Too much misuse of titles, to much disinformation being passed out by these hacks. Too much ego to admit that in the face of truth, that they were wrong. I think that is the true measure of these people. They simply can't accept that "everything they know is wrong", so they either go to great measures to validate themselves (write letters, publish a book series, etc) or they run back to their little backwoodstowns where they can be the "big kar-ate master", impressing a bunch of rednecks, who simply don't know any better. Either way, shame on them.

[evenflow1121]

Bodhidama is what history knows him as as. I have never heard of Buddha Dharma.
You are probably more knowledgeable on this stuff than I am so I take your word for it and I stand corrected.

[Brother John]

Factual data that there were "fighting monks" may not be total truth. I have read that there were so many renegades, rebels, amd the like given sanctuary there, they many were in cognito as monks. Making others believe that there were fighting monks.

Given the structure of Buddhism, why would Buddhist monks desire to fight?
Actually there are lots of historical examples of Buddhist monks being warriors or learning/teaching martial ways. Especially in Japan and Korea, but also in China and elsewhere.

Your Brother
John

[47MartialMan]

Me? As to the rest, I don't know. Does it matter?.It looks like it does.


There is "American" English and "English" English.
We are not talking about slang, we are talking about traditional titles being misused. "Soke" is Japanese, not English. In Japan, the word does NOT mean "Founder" which these fools keep incorrectly claiming it does. Stating it repeatedly does not change that fact anymore than calling a clear lemon-lime carbonated beverage "Coke" makes it a cola..I could stand corrected, but isnt a "fag" in England a cigarette to as one in the US is homosexual? Hmmmn.......


Most of these title happy fools aren't teaching Asian arts.
So why do they insist on misusing Asian words? .I have to agree. but then again many misuse English, French, Spanish as well. Shall I say that my hispanic freind cannot speak Spanish because he is not from Spain? That his Spanish should not have cultural/word differences? For sure, if he had traveled to Spain, many would think that he is misusing Spanish...Hmmmnnn


So, if all my friends and peers think I'm the Son of God...I am?
Cool..Careful. You are speaking of the subject of religion. Many have made their followers think so.


Mr. Calkins, as well as many others may be excellent martial artists. Where they run into problems is the misuse of foriegn words and titles to add some sense of 'mystisism' to their programs.
Calling it "Fugu-Ryu, taught by Kami-Soke" is "mysterious, but pompous.
Calling it "Calm of the Storm School, Mr. Kami - Founder and Head Instructor", thats in english, no pompous, but still has that little 'mystisism we all like...I agree. Better to be newly created-original than to label Coca-Cola as Pepsi



The problem I have with these 'people', is that you talk to them, and it's "This is Sensei Joe", or "My name is Soke Smith". As we said, 1 WNY school has 107 "Senseis" on staff, most not old enough to shave, or even stay up past 8pm. ..So they cant be a "sensei"?



Too much misuse of titles, to much disinformation being passed out by these hacks. Too much ego to admit that in the face of truth, that they were wrong. I think that is the true measure of these people. They simply can't accept that "everything they know is wrong", so they either go to great measures to validate themselves (write letters, publish a book series, etc) or they run back to their little backwoodstowns where they can be the "big kar-ate master", impressing a bunch of rednecks, who simply don't know any better. Very true. But lets not get into harsh bashing like other forums. Lets remain opposing. but polite.

[Bob Hubbard]

My 2cents:
They can be a sensei...if they teach a Japanese art.
Sifu if it's Chinese, etc.
It's an American art? fine. Use an American title.

Then again, for all the time I spent in school, I never had my teachers introduce themselves as "Teacher Smith". It was always mr or mrs.

[The Boar Man]

I am still waiting for more info on the Black Star Ninjitsu school in the Texas town that doesn't exist.

I think he might mean Garland TX instead of Garlin. Garland is located Notrtheast of Dallas. This could be an honest spelling mistake, looking over the posts there seem to be several mistakes.

FWIW

[The Boar Man]

Sorry my bad typing error

I meant Northeast not what I spelled. See it can happen to anyone :)

[47MartialMan]

My 2cents:
They can be a sensei...if they teach a Japanese art.
Sifu if it's Chinese, etc..What if they had studied both, would it be Sen-fu? http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/images/icons/icon12.gif


It's an American art? fine. Use an American title...How can it be so if there are other arts/foundations involved?
Ok, the sign outside my school is "Rich's School of Defense Study".
Would that make the common wealth understand by passing it better than Rich's School of Karate or Rich's Karate School? Believe it or not, most of the Occidental common wealth associate Japanese/Chinese/Asian cultural terms to mean something. Any many do not fully understand the English term - "Martial Arts"


Then again, for all the time I spent in school, I never had my teachers introduce themselves as "Teacher Smith". It was always mr or mrs.
What about college "Professor Smith". Why use "professor" or Dr Smith-why use Dr.? Why use any word to link skill, profession, exepreince? Why use Mr. or Miss. or Mrs.? In school, it is because they did not have Japanese/Chinese/Cultural influences like martial arts have. The fact you were in a American school that did not have cultural links/interst to martial arts, may not use such wording. If I went to a American school and ask anyone what is Karate some would say it is Asian/Oriental Fighting. When I ask where did it come from, some may ot may not know. Terminology/wording is picked up scantly from sources, such as media. But using them in reference is wrong? Say such a school was teaching something culturely such as Spanish. No teachers or students would go around using the word terms even out of context?

Here is a thought, why do some Chinese call elder friends "uncle"?

[47MartialMan]

Actually there are lots of historical examples of Buddhist monks being warriors or learning/teaching martial ways. Especially in Japan and Korea, but also in China and elsewhere.

Your Brother
John
But were they true Buddhists?

[Bob Hubbard]

What if they had studied both, would it be Sen-fu? http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/images/icons/icon12.gif gazuntheit!


How can it be so if there are other arts/foundations involved?
Then use the terms that best fir the largest core of things. Also, don't make light of the contribution of the core, and be damn certain you have it understood before doing so. Not understanding the real definition of certain terms will cause you problems later on.


Ok, the sign outside my school is "Rich's School of Defense Study".
Would that make the common wealth understand by passing it better than Rich's School of Karate or Rich's Karate School? Believe it or not, most of the Occidental common wealth associate Japanese/Chinese/Asian cultural terms to mean something. Any many do not fully understand the English term - "Martial Arts"
Then educate them. I can't recall the last time I found someone who did NOT know what "self defence", "personal protection" or "fighting techniques" meant. In the english speaking world, "teacher", "instructor" and "tutor" are pretty common.


What about college "Professor Smith". Why use "professor" or Dr Smith-why use Dr.?
Professor: The highest academic rank on a college or university faculty. In descending order, the other ranks are associate professor, assistant professor, and instructor.

Doctor: Doctor means teacher in Latin. It has been used continuously as an honored academic title for over a millennium in Europe, where it dates back to the rise of the university. This use spread to the Americas, former European colonies, and is now prevalent in most of the world. However, in the last two centuries of popular use in English-speaking and many other countries, the noun doctor usually refers to a medical doctor or physician.


Why use any word to link skill, profession, exepreince? Why use Mr. or Miss. or Mrs.? In school, it is because they did not have Japanese/Chinese/Cultural influences like martial arts have.
I'll only say this 10,000 more times before I die....
Not all Martial Arts are Asian. Thats part of why our logo has both western and eastern aspects.

Why use any term? Respect. I call people Mr. or Ms. out of respect.
I don't call them "chan" or "san" because I'm not raised in that culture.
I'll call my non-asian instructor Mr.and not ad the honorific -san to his name.


The fact you were in a American school that did not have cultural links/interst to martial arts, may not use such wording. If I went to a American school and ask anyone what is Karate some would say it is Asian/Oriental Fighting. When I ask where did it come from, some may ot may not know. Terminology/wording is picked up scantly from sources, such as media. But using them in reference is wrong? Say such a school was teaching something culturely such as Spanish. No teachers or students would go around using the word terms even out of context?
Sure they would. But I would hope that once corrected by those who do know better, that they would improve.

Not insist that their misuse was acceptable.


Here is a thought, why do some Chinese call elder friends "uncle"?
Culture. Same reason why I call my grandfather "Pop-Pop" I supose. (He's my pops, pop, y'know? :D)

[BlackCatBonz]

But were they true Buddhists?
were christians fighting in the crusades true christians?

[47MartialMan]

were christians fighting in the crusades true christians?Gets back to the term of real...http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/images/icons/icon10.gif