Dumb or Bad Ideas in the Martial Arts

[MichiganTKD]

I am starting a new thread that asks the question: What do you think have been some of the dumbest or just plain bad ideas in martial arts history over the years? Could be very recent, could be centuries old. Describe what you think have been some missteps taken by the MA community over the years, or ideas that, in retrospect, probably should not have happened. Can be serious, but doesn't have to be.

1. Colored or American Flag-styled uniforms
2. Don Wilson getting together with Roger Corman
3. Jean Claude van Damme being issued a U.S. green card (just kidding!)

I'm sure I'll think of some more.

[Simon Curran]

Jean Claude Van Damme in general.

[Shaolinwind]

I am starting a new thread that asks the question: What do you think have been some of the dumbest or just plain bad ideas in martial arts history over the years? Could be very recent, could be centuries old. Describe what you think have been some missteps taken by the MA community over the years, or ideas that, in retrospect, probably should not have happened. Can be serious, but doesn't have to be.

1. Colored or American Flag-styled uniforms
2. Don Wilson getting together with Roger Corman
3. Jean Claude van Damme being issued a U.S. green card (just kidding!)

I'm sure I'll think of some more.
How about Cynthia Rothrock posing nude.. It wasn't even a reputable girlie magazine, lol.

[Simon Curran]

How about Cynthia Rothrock posing nude.. It wasn't even a reputable girlie magazine, lol.
Wait a minute, let me get this straight, you are saying that Cynthia Rothrock nude is a bad thing???

[Shaolinwind]

Wait a minute, let me get this straight, you are saying that Cynthia Rothrock nude is a bad thing???
LOL not as such. I just think it was a bad idea. She should have held out for Playboy and made more money.

I think I'll refrain from further lewd comments about my Master's ex wife. :uhohh:

[Simon Curran]

I think I'll refrain from further lewd comments about my Master's ex wife. :uhohh:
Yeah, could be a wise move...

[Cruentus]

How about Cynthia Rothrock posing nude.. It wasn't even a reputable girlie magazine, lol.

:eek:

When and WHERE was THAT!?!?

[Simon Curran]

:eek:

When and WHERE was THAT!?!?
I was wondering the same thing...

[Shaolinwind]

:eek:

When and WHERE was THAT!?!?
This was a long time ago I saw this,like 8 years or so. You'll have to google it if you want to find it, I have no idea what the mag. was. I'd check with a moderator before posting links to dirty magazines tho. =)

[MA-Caver]

I remember that as well... that WAS a long time ago... almost twenty years or so. I canna remember the mag either... definitely wasn't one of the high end ones, but it wasn't one of those bottom sleaze rags either.

[PatMunk]

Promoting kids under 16 to black belt

[The Kai]

Promoting Kids under 9 years old to black belt

Karate Kid
Even worse Karate Kid 2
almost purely maleficent -Karate Kid 3
Mc Dojos

[terryl965]

The day they started Honorary Black Belt please it is so rediculas,also the day let started to give time in another Art credit for there current Art. I mean a BB in one Art does not make you a BB in another style. Last but not least is the so called stunt men that make these so called movie star look invinceable when killing 500 men one at a time.

[jfarnsworth]

When and WHERE was THAT!?!?

I will third that comment.

[mj-hi-yah]

I will third that comment.Considering your sig line it's a bad idea to ask that. :uhyeah:

[Makalakumu]

No touch KO's.

Need I say more?

[Jaymeister]

Karate Kid
Even worse Karate Kid 2
almost purely maleficent -Karate Kid 3
Didn't they make a karate kid 4? I think Hillary Swank was in it, and it was definitely not her best role.

[jfarnsworth]

Considering your sig line it's a bad idea to ask that. :uhyeah:

That's whilist training, Dear. :) No distractions.


And actually I put some rumors here to rest while I was on the floor here at work. Some people were talking about the weight training I was doing with a good looking female. She is AND I was never distracted in the weight room. After I told them what I helped her out with they were surprised. That was before her reconstructive surgery she had on her female parts. The first doctor didn't help her any. She opted for the next surgeon to reconstruct her by using her muscle fibers. Which I helped her strengthen before her surgery. :) (Smiling for her) :asian:

[Touch Of Death]

"Running Red", "Street Knight", ect.

[The Kai]

The Summer Uniforms that some Tae Kwon Do associations are pushing


Yea, Karate Kid 4 sucked

[The Kai]

Actually anything RothRocks done lately seems focus on the clevage, which as time passe sis getting to be a not-so-good idea

[FearlessFreep]

2. Don Wilson getting together with Roger Corman

Roger Corman rules!

[MichiganTKD]

If anyone is interested, I will PM them about how to find those Cynthia Rothrock pics they seem so interested in.

[MichiganTKD]

The WTF emphasizing tournament competition to the point that the real, lifelong benefits of traditional training are being lost to the urge to win medals.

[Simon Curran]

Xtreme Martial Arts...
Forgetting to bring your groin protector...

[RRouuselot]

How about Cynthia Rothrock posing nude..

:barf:

[RRouuselot]

No touch KO's.

Need I say more?

Yes....you forgot "Kiaijutsu".... :rolleyes: God help us if that ever takes off.

[Cruentus]

Promoting Kids under 9 years old to black belt

Karate Kid
Even worse Karate Kid 2
almost purely maleficent -Karate Kid 3
Mc Dojos

Karate Kid was awesome...come on now! Except for part 4 with the chick...now THAT sucked.... :)

[RRouuselot]

Karate Kid was awesome...come on now! Except for part 4 with the chick...now THAT sucked.... :) I thought Part 1 had kind of a nice story. They progressively got worse after that.
The one where they pretend to go to Okinawa (part 2?)sucked the big hoo-hoo.
it didn't look like Okinawa, the people didn't act like Okinawans....and the bit with the tea ceremony.....paaaalease. A couple of shooters of Awamori maybe but "Japanese" tea ceremony.....not bloody likely.
Your right, 4 was the worst though.
You know why they couldn’t use Ralph M in 4 don’t you?

Hell by the time part 4 came out they would to have called it “Karate Man”!
The guy was like 30 something by then.

[RRouuselot]

1) What do you think have been some of the dumbest or just plain bad ideas in martial arts history over the years? Could be very recent, could be centuries old. Describe what you think have been some missteps taken by the MA community over the years, or ideas that, in retrospect, probably should not have happened. Can be serious, but doesn't have to be.

2) Jean Claude van Damme being issued a U.S. green card (just kidding!)



1) Karate adopting belt ranks from Judo….bad idea anyway you look at it. I think Karate should have stayed with the old method…..those that CAN do, those that can’t fade away. Also, the adoption of JKA “tippy-tap” type tornaments…..it’s just creates “paper tigers”. I think people should be willing to endure a certain level of discomfort if they are doing a martial art……if they can’t hack it maybe ballet is more their style. Nobody ever said MA are for everyone so I don’t know why people try to dumb them down.

2) I blame his parents. Some people just shouldn’t procreate. Reminds me of a scene from "Full Metal Jacket".....

[Cruentus]

I thought Part 1 had kind of a nice story. They progressively got worse after that.
The one where they pretend to go to Okinawa (part 2?)sucked the big hoo-hoo.
it didn't look like Okinawa, the people didn't act like Okinawans....and the bit with the tea ceremony.....paaaalease. A couple of shooters of Awamori maybe but "Japanese" tea ceremony.....not bloody likely.

HEY! It made perfect sense to me when I was in elementary school! :rofl:

And do you mean to tell me that Japan is different then Okinawa....it's all the same thing right? :rolleyes:



Your right, 4 was the worst though.
You know why they couldn’t use Ralph M in 4 don’t you?

Hell by the time part 4 came out they would to have called it “Karate Man”!
The guy was like 30 something by then.

I think they should have used Ralph anyways, but given it an office theme where he works in a cubical at an IT department somewhere, and has to deal with the guy over the next wall who is a major dickhead and is related to their immediate supervisor. Pat Morita got a job as the evening janitor in the same building. And the whole movie ends with a big high flying showdown throughout the cubical areas, where office supplies are used as weapons of opportunity. The final scene will be the ol' classic humorous Pat Morita who has the supervisor by the hair and a stapler held high overhead, and he says something like, "These software is NO compatable...and this report is NO acceptable!" and he comes crashing down with the stapler, only to staple a piece of paper on the desk beside the guys head yelling something wierd like "Honk." The End, role credits.

Done right, Karate Man 4: The great office battle could have been a great success.

:uhyeah: :ultracool

[RRouuselot]

1) HEY! It made perfect sense to me when I was in elementary school! :rofl:

2) And do you mean to tell me that Japan is different then Okinawa....it's all the same thing right? :rolleyes:

3) I think they should have used Ralph anyways, but given it an office theme where he works in a cubical at an IT department somewhere, and has to deal with the guy over the next wall who is a major dickhead and is related to their immediate supervisor. Pat Morita got a job as the evening janitor in the same building. And the whole movie ends with a big high flying showdown throughout the cubical areas, where office supplies are used as weapons of opportunity. The final scene will be the ol' classic humorous Pat Morita who has the supervisor by the hair and a stapler held high overhead, and he says something like, "These software is NO compatable...and this report is NO acceptable!" and he comes crashing down with the stapler, only to staple a piece of paper on the desk beside the guys head yelling something wierd like "Honk." The End, role credits.

Done right, Karate Man 4: The great office battle could have been a great success.

:uhyeah::ultracool

1) Oh man….I had to suffer through it several years after I graduate university….hell I probably would have loved it as a kid.

2) There all the same….Chinese, Japanese, Koreans, Thai…..ain’t no difference. ;)

3) Yeah great idea......and Pamela Anderson could have played his secretaty along with some other really hot chicks…..lot’s of hot chicks just laying around like in those Bond movies!


We should get into the movie making business! We would make a killing!

[still learning]

Hello, This one is from 70's. My friends and I use to shoot pool at the cornor shopping center and on the 2nd floor a "Japanese International Karate" were promoting be a BLACK BELT in 12 months. The school always seems busy.

Another is a school in our area that the Sensi decide to go back to the old ways of learning the martial arts. They started doing sparring drills(more like fighting) at every class with full contact. No pads, or protection gear. As the weeks went by they started to lose students, most just quit. They believe you need to learn to take a blow and build hard bodies. NOT sure if this is a bad idea?

Wearing your uniform will shopping at stores before going to classes.

Telling the Bully you know karate before getting beat up!

Don't practice what you preach? Are we quilty of this sometimes? .....Aloha

[masherdong]

Promoting kids to Black Belt
Dojos that promote to quickly. Getting promoted to BB in a year and a half? C'mon now.

[Miles]

I have seen American-born instructors speaking pidgen-English as though they were imitating their Korean instructor. Funny, but dumb.

Miles

[Cruentus]

I have seen American-born instructors speaking pidgen-English as though they were imitating their Korean instructor. Funny, but dumb.

Miles

:rofl:

[MichiganTKD]

Promoting Tae Bo as effective self defense. Any Instructor that does that should be sued for false advertising and endangerment. Some student will try to use it in the event of an attack because the literature and the teacher said it was good for health and self defense.

[RRouuselot]

Promoting Tae Bo as effective self defense. Any Instructor that does that should be sued for false advertising and endangerment. Some student will try to use it in the event of an attack because the literature and the teacher said it was good for health and self defense.
Suing would be letting them off too easy……I say take them out back of whatever “poser” gym they work at and let them demonstrate how effective it is at getting their butt kicked.

[MichiganTKD]

To make matters worse, most of the time the Tae Bo techniques they teach are absolute crap. The instructor usually has no martial arts experience at all, and spends a day at a seminar getting certified to teach it. Or worse, watches a couple of Billy Blanks videos and copies what he does.

[Cruentus]

Promoting Tae Bo as effective self defense. Any Instructor that does that should be sued for false advertising and endangerment. Some student will try to use it in the event of an attack because the literature and the teacher said it was good for health and self defense.

When I was teaching Modern Arnis at a Gym a number of years ago, the guy in the aerobic room next to me was doing exactly that. He had about 30 women students. I was working up to confronting him on it, but trying to figure out how to do so without losing my place at the gym. Then, one day he just didn't show up to class. As it turned out, he was fired for sexually harrassing one of his students, but the gym failed to notify his other 30 Tae Bo students.

Well, I had about a 30 person class for 2 months; women who just showed up to my class because the other guy wasn't around. I wasn't as developed as an instructor back then, but I figure that what I taught them as practical self defense was a hell of a lot better then what they were getting...

Moral of the story; don't take Tae Bo from an unethical instructor - he is likely to sexually harass you. ;)

[Shaolinwind]

:barf:
LMAO tell us how you REALLY feel. =)

[Shaolinwind]

Hello, This one is from 70's. My friends and I use to shoot pool at the cornor shopping center and on the 2nd floor a "Japanese International Karate" were promoting be a BLACK BELT in 12 months. The school always seems busy.
Aloha
Hrmm.. I would be as wary of "Get your black belt in 12 months" as I would "Sushi, 1/2 price".

[MichiganTKD]

Anyone using "Professor" to denote themselves as a martial arts instructor. A Professor is an accredited instructor teaching academic subjects at a recognized College or University. Has nothing to do with martial arts.

[FearlessFreep]

Or worse, watches a couple of Billy Blanks videos and copies what he does.

Hey, I've seen a couple of Billy Blanks videos..TC 2000 (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0108277/) is the only one I can remember the title of, but I think I've seen him in another...

[MichiganTKD]

Billy Blanks' videos usually get returned to the store before the tape is finished. I can't watch them. Anyone remember "King of the Kickboxers"?

[Bammx2]

Promoting kids to Black Belt
Dojos that promote to quickly. Getting promoted to BB in a year and a half? C'mon now.
Gotcha beat on that one................

I know of a kung fu instructor in ohio who would give you a black belt
in 6-8 months...........
beat that!

oh yea...he's STILL teaching...and now has added aerobic kickboxing!
woohoo!


:shrug:

[Bammx2]

ok....

I have one for the olde timers.........................
fess up.....
who owned a pair of "kicking" jeans by bill wallace or .....chuck norriss' model?!

[Kempogeek]

ok....

I have one for the olde timers.........................
fess up.....
who owned a pair of "kicking" jeans by bill wallace or .....chuck norriss' model?!
Geez!! I remember seeing the ads in my Karate Illustrated magazines in the early 80's. Since I was a teenager then, does that make me an old timer? Going to be 38 this month. Best regards, Steve

[Sam]

kicking jeans... you got me interested... *wonders why they dont make em anymore*

did they come in low rise hip-hugger with the flaired leg?

[swiftpete]

Billy Blanks' videos usually get returned to the store before the tape is finished. I can't watch them. Anyone remember "King of the Kickboxers"?King of the kickboxers is an amazing film! One of the best crap films ever. There are not many martial arts films i've seen that i've laughed harder at. i mean billy blanks comes out with some great lines.."SOMETHING TO REMEMBER ME BY!" as he kicks the young lad unconscious...."THEY'RE WAITING FOR ME!" swiftly followed by some bruising but completely ridiculous moves.
The only better crap martial arts film is bloodfight with bolo yeung. Old man in the final fight gets his head completely kicked in by bolo, has his mandatory van damme style power up moment, which involves a flashback to earlier beatings etc. Powers up, stands up revitalised for a second go at bolo. Bolo immediately drops him again!
i was on the floor with laughter watching that one..!

[Bammx2]

Geez!! I remember seeing the ads in my Karate Illustrated magazines in the early 80's. Since I was a teenager then, does that make me an old timer? Going to be 38 this month. Best regards, Steve

yes it does!!!!!!!!!

I was a teenager and had a pair myself,I must've made someone mad...I got a pair for my birthday:erg:

[RRouuselot]

kicking jeans... you got me interested... *wonders why they dont make em anymore*

did they come in low rise hip-hugger with the flaired leg?
They were jeans made by Century that were cut like gi pants in the crotch so you could kick higher.

[Tgace]

Federations upon organizations upon associations upon etc. etc.

[Sam]

They were jeans made by Century that were cut like gi pants in the crotch so you could kick higher.weird. I always thought gi pants were strange - I don't like them much.
the concept of jeans like this makes me feel better about gi bottoms, though....

[jfarnsworth]

I know of a kung fu instructor in ohio who would give you a black belt
in 6-8 months...........
beat that!

oh yea...he's STILL teaching...and now has added aerobic kickboxing!
woohoo!

Nice! :rolleyes:

[RRouuselot]

weird. I always thought gi pants were strange - I don't like them much.
the concept of jeans like this makes me feel better about gi bottoms, though....
I think it's a "guy" thing........

[RRouuselot]

Federations upon organizations upon associations upon etc. etc.

That and so many patches they look like they could enter a NASCAR race

[Sam]

I think it's a "guy" thing........
the liking of kicking pants or the (obvious) crotch of the gi pants?

[RRouuselot]

the liking of kicking pants or the (obvious) crotch of the gi pants?
the room they provide

[Miles]

Geez!! I remember seeing the ads in my Karate Illustrated magazines in the early 80's. Since I was a teenager then, does that make me an old timer? Going to be 38 this month. Best regards, Steve
I remember the CN Kicking jeans from Century-they looked really cool...but never bought a pair. Remember the "stone washed" black denim uniform he advertised? That looked cool too...

BTW, Karate Illustrated was good, but I don't think you are an old timer unless you subscribed to Official Karate. :)

Miles

[Kempogeek]

I remember the CN Kicking jeans from Century-they looked really cool...but never bought a pair. Remember the "stone washed" black denim uniform he advertised? That looked cool too...

BTW, Karate Illustrated was good, but I don't think you are an old timer unless you subscribed to Official Karate. :)

Miles
Thanks Miles. Although I didn't subscribe to Official Karate, only to Karate Illustrated, I did have a couple of issues. Also had quite a few Black Belt magazines. To this day I still wished I started my training back then. Better late then never I guess. Best regards, Steve

[MichiganTKD]

Soke Councils.

Aside from completely misusing the name, these councils practice what I call "subsidizing incompetence." If you think you are talented enough to start your own style, knock yourself out.
However, any style should succeed or fail based on its own merits and whether or not it truly offers a valuable product. It should not rely on associating with a bunch of half-assed, self-promoting, self-congratulating yahoos to advance itself.

[Sam]

Soke Councils.

Aside from completely misusing the name, these councils practice what I call "subsidizing incompetence." If you think you are talented enough to start your own style, knock yourself out.
However, any style should succeed or fail based on its own merits and whether or not it truly offers a valuable product. It should not rely on associating with a bunch of half-assed, self-promoting, self-congratulating yahoos to advance itself.
tell us how you really feel.... hehe

[The Kai]

How about Lace Karate Pants?

BTW I still have a few copies of Offical Karate

[RRouuselot]

How about Lace Karate Pants?

BTW I still have a few copies of Offical Karate
Me too.
I have one from 1984 (June or July) where George Dillman states he has never seen tuite or kyusho before….which is kind of odd since he claims he got some secret instruction on them from Hohan Soken back in the 70’s, Soken died in Nov. 1982. Lies will always come back to haunt you……..

[Bammx2]

How about Lace Karate Pants?

BTW I still have a few copies of Offical Karate
I definately remember Official Karate!
And I also had the Lace-up pants!
I do believe they became famous because of the PKA!!!
oooweee!!!
go Corley Brothers!

[RRouuselot]

I do believe they became famous because of the PKA!!!

One of the first dojo I trained at when I was a kid was big in the PKA with the likes of Light Middleweight Champion Bob “thunder” Thurman, Jeff and Mark Payne, etc….

[mj-hi-yah]

How about Lace Karate Pants?

Well LOL I like mine...:idunno: :)

[The Kai]

Well LOL I like mine...:idunno: :) Do they have the back pocket? (somewhere to keep the ol' smokes):ultracool

[MichiganTKD]

I remember Karate Illustrated, as well as Official Karate, back when I was a young impressionable student. I remember seeing Chuck Norris in ads for Century Martial Arts pants, including the one with him doing an awful side kick. I also remember the ads of Chuck for the stretch rack. Looked like a Medieval torture device.
Back in those days, i thought if you were in Karate Illustrated, Official Karate, or Black Belt you must have known what you were talking about!:rolleyes:

[The Kai]

Camoflage Gi's/belts
XMA
Wearing your cup outside your pants

[MichiganTKD]

Some of our fighters wear the cup outside their pants when they fight at the organization tournament. Drives me absolutely bonkers when I see that. Are they trying to protect it or show it off? If you know you will be fighting, set aside time to put your cup on properly.

Also, people that put on shinpads and neglect to pull their pant legs over the pad. You couldn't take an extra five seconds to adjust it?

[MichiganTKD]

People who feel they must condition their knuckles by pounding on hard surfaces. I'd like to see what condition their hands are in later in life.

[The Kai]

How about

Hai Karate the after shave? Man that stuff was brutall.

Your own authentic Karate Kid Headband?

[mj-hi-yah]

Wearing your cup outside your pantsGuys should know how wrong that is! I've seen it and it's, just not pretty!:whip:

[The Kai]

Guys should know how wrong that is! I've seen it and it's, just not pretty!:whip:Especially if you put it on backwards

[MichiganTKD]

I sent away for one of those headbands (again, I was a young impressionable student!). I think I wore it one time at class for about five seconds. When one of the black belts told me it wouldn't be a good idea to wear that around Sa Bum Nim, I took it off and never wore it again. Not that he was against headbands to catch sweat, but that a headband with Japanese characters probably would not be well received in a Korean Tae Kwon Do class.
Actually, I think he disliked headbands because he wanted to see sweat on your forehead. That meant you were training hard.

[The Kai]

My Teacher used to push the headband down into your eyes when you sparred

[Shaolinwind]

How about Lace Karate Pants?

BTW I still have a few copies of Offical Karate
Ewww sounds horrible. Like the draw string pants I had when I was in TSD. Ick.

[Sam]

My Teacher used to push the headband down into your eyes when you sparredsounds like something one of my instructors would do.

my 2nd sparring lesson, my instructor got me with a "your shoe's untied"

I was wearing foot pads! no laces!

[RRouuselot]

How about

Hai Karate the after shave? Man that stuff was brutall.

Chuck Norris was the karate guy in that TV commercial.

[The Kai]

That was years later for Right Guard

[RRouuselot]

That was years later for Right Guard

Really? Ithought he said in his book that he did that Hai-karate commercial.

[The Kai]

I did'nt read the book, maybe it was him in the Hai karate Commercial-I do remember him in a Right Guard Commercial

[MichiganTKD]

He did say he was in the Hai Karate commercial. Martial arts were just getting established at the time and the company apparently felt Chuck would be a good actor for their commercial.

[The Kai]

He did say he was in the Hai Karate commercial. Martial arts were just getting established at the time and the company apparently felt Chuck would be a good actor for their commercial.
the company apparently felt Chuck would be a good actor for their commercial, both a bad and dumb idea in the martial arts

[MichiganTKD]

More specifically, Chuck Norris was the first Westerner to have widespread fame as a martial artist. The company apparently thought a famous American martial artist would help sell the product.

[Zepp]

Good idea: Asking a friend in the martial arts to teach you how to break out of a hold.

Bad idea: After drinking a few beers, trying to sneak up on your friend in the martial arts, bear hug them, and say: "try to get out of this."

[MichiganTKD]

Ooohhh the times my friend and I had free fighting in his apartment after a few drinks. Thank God he didn't live on the 7th floor or anything!

[Eldritch Knight]

Wearing Rex Kwan Do pants to practice. I was walking by a local McDojo one day and saw one of the students walking around in them as his street attire. Made my day.

[uglydawg]

oooh oooh I got one Gymkata, possibly THE worst movie EVAR





I watched it about 15 times :uhyeah:

[bignick]

Wearing Rex Kwan Do pants to practice. I was walking by a local McDojo one day and saw one of the students walking around in them as his street attire. Made my day.
Hey, man....

Nobody wants a roundhouse to the face when you're wearing those bad boys...

[ginshun]

Hey, man....

Nobody wants a roundhouse to the face when you're wearing those bad boys... Fuggetaboutit. Last off, my students will learn about self respect. You think anybody thinks I'm a failure because I go home to Starla at night? Fuggetaboutit!

[Bammx2]

oooh oooh I got one Gymkata, possibly THE worst movie EVAR





I watched it about 15 times :uhyeah:

ACK!:goop:

[BrandiJo]

what are rex kwan do pants?

[Makalakumu]

Watch "Napolean Dynamite."

[Touch Of Death]

Anyone using "Professor" to denote themselves as a martial arts instructor. A Professor is an accredited instructor teaching academic subjects at a recognized College or University. Has nothing to do with martial arts.This is complete bunk. Your limiting the word "professoer" to your own personal defenition, and being pissed off when people use the expanded defenition as to mean one who professes, sets you up for always being pissed when you hear it used outside of you comfort zone. Martial arts terms are what ever the termer deems them to be, and using a word such as professor[of the terms] is not breaking any culural morays. Breath...

[MichiganTKD]

Wrong.

Being a teacher of martial arts does not qualify you to be called "Professor". As I stated before, a Professor is a degreed teacher of academic curriculum at an accredited College or University.
It is one more example of Westerners using a word or title of address out of context in order to make themselves feel good. It is also one more example of "title inflation". Being called "Instructor" apparently isn't good enough for these people; now they want to be called "Professor", despite the fact that very few of these people actually hold the degrees qualifying them to be addressed that way.

[The Kai]

I think the use of the word Professer is a little on the poor choice side. Withg convaying some sort of study behind the person

Perhaps within Martial arts circles, but never ever in public!!

[Touch Of Death]

Well its a damn good thing my inststructor is covered on both ends by your defenition. What if a person is called such by others, what should that person do?

[MichiganTKD]

I would ask them what they teach and where. Most academic Professors will easily talk about their teaching career.

Now if I ask them what they teach as a Professor and they tell me "I teach kung fu" or "I teach Tae Kwon Do" I would tell simply I have never heard of a Professor of Kung Fu or Tae Kwon Do. Hopefully about that time my cell phone would go off so I could leave to answer it.

[Touch Of Death]

What if they don't teach college anymore but reatained the nickname for a martial arts likeness in roles? Why were you calling?

[MichiganTKD]

If they don't teach college anymore, it is conceivable they retain the address among former students, colleagues, and people who know or knew them in their capacity as a college instructor.
However, any college professor, retired or otherwise, should not refer to themselves or let themselves be referred to as "Professor" in their capacity as a martial arts instructor. Martial arts have their own forms of address irregardless of someone's station in life. Now, it is possible for a professor to be referred to by that title as a term of courteous endearment by fellow martial arts students or black belts, but not in an official sense. More of a nickname.

[MichiganTKD]

Martial arts actor wannabes who consistantly make B and C grade straight-to-video films that noone but the most hardcore MA film junkies or their fans will ever see. They apparently are so eager to be in a film they don't care what it looks like or makes them look like. If you want to break into films and be taken seriously, study acting and learn how to fight well on screen. There is a reason why many, if not most, martial artists are not taken seriously in films: They can't act.
Bruce Lee had the right idea as far as making films: he refused to settle for second best or being a Shaw Brothers grunt. He did it on his terms.
My Instructor used to say this about wanting to be in a film: If you want me to act like Charles Bronson, pay me like Charles Bronson. Do not sell yourself short.

[Cruentus]

Bad idea in martial arts: Martial Artists who make up facts around their personal opinions, and end up making themselves look silly.

Dictionary definition of "Professor:"

1 : one that professes , avows, or declares
2 a : a faculty member of the highest academic rank at an institution of higher education b : a teacher at a university, college, or sometimes secondary school c : one that teaches or professes special knowledge of an art, sport, or occupation requiring skill


If one only recognizes definition 2a or 2b, then the Professor title could not be used in martial arts. But, since most of us live in reality where you can't just pick and chose definitions for words, and expect everyone else to follow suit, when you look at ALL the definitions, the title can be used in martial arts.

And, the title is and has been used in martial arts by some very respectible and worthy instructors.

So, MichiganTKD, YOU are wrong. Touch of Death is correct.

Paul

[Makalakumu]

Bad idea in martial arts: Martial Artists who make up facts around their personal opinions, and end up making themselves look silly.

Dictionary definition of "Professor:"

1 : one that professes , avows, or declares
2 a : a faculty member of the highest academic rank at an institution of higher education b : a teacher at a university, college, or sometimes secondary school c : one that teaches or professes special knowledge of an art, sport, or occupation requiring skill


If one only recognizes definition 2a or 2b, then the Professor title could not be used in martial arts. But, since most of us live in reality where you can't just pick and chose definitions for words, and expect everyone else to follow suit, when you look at ALL the definitions, the title can be used in martial arts.

And, the title is and has been used in martial arts by some very respectible and worthy instructors.

So, MichiganTKD, YOU are wrong. Touch of Death is correct.

Paul

In some ways, I like title professor better then master. The former denotes a teacher with a real depth of knowledge. The latter denotes something totally different.

BTW - my juijutsu teacher is a professor.

[MichiganTKD]

No, I am NOTwrong. Perhaps I should have clarified a little what I meant. Some styles might use the term Professor. However, Oriental-based martial arts do not use the term Professor. They use Sa Bum Nim, Kwan Jang Nim, Sensei, Hanshi, Shihan, Sifu etc. "Professor" is a westernized, and incorrect, approximation of these terms. Now, if you are a Soke wannabe, you can call yourself anything you want. It would most likely be wrong anyway.
I am guilty of non-clarification. I am not guilty of being incorrect.

[MichiganTKD]

By Tulisan's definition, I could call myself a "Professor of Tae Kwon Do". My dad was a college Instructor and I am acquainted with many Professors, both through him and in the course of my education. I would not disservice the word by applying it to Tae Kwon Do or martial arts. I respect real Professors too much.

[rmcrobertson]

I've never quite understood what's dishonorable about, "Mr.," and, "Ms.," and "teacher," but then I don't understand why this sort of trivia worries people so much anyway.

As always: ceremonial occasions, great. Addressing 80-year-old japanese masters of aikido, fine. Everyday use among Americans, silly. Nice analogy from the military: lieutenant comes into the barracks, somebody yells, "Officer on deck," everybody snaps to attention and then salutes, then they drop the whole issue. Nice analogy from Buddhist studies: many zendos make funny remarks about the stage when Westerners lose the articles out of their sentences, and start speaking cryptically, so they sound more spiritual.

Can we also discuss the ridiculous, "Oss," again?

[Sam]

I personally think white sparring gear is a bad idea. It gets dirty in about 8 seconds.

[arnisador]

Dictionary definition of "Professor:"

1 : one that professes , avows, or declares
2 a : a faculty member of the highest academic rank at an institution of higher education b : a teacher at a university, college, or sometimes secondary school c : one that teaches or professes special knowledge of an art, sport, or occupation requiring skill


If one only recognizes definition 2a or 2b, then the Professor title could not be used in martial arts.
Defn. 1 is just grammar. One who acts is an actor, one who bets is a bettor, one who professes is a professor...with a lower case 'p'.

Defns. 2a and 2b are the usual: They refer to a Professor, one who holds a certain academic rank. Defn. 2c allows for the usage sometimes seen in the martial arts, as with Prof. Wally Jay.

But what's more often done is not to apply Defn. 2c to a senior martial artist, but rather to misapply Defn. 2a by making Professor a rank or title in a martial arts system or school. That's the problem--taking the rank and title of Professor.

I say, when Professors start being called Senior Grandmasters, Associate Professors start being called Hanshi, and Assistant Professors start being called Shihan, call me again.

[masterfinger]

Dumb AND Bad idea ; Americans using the term "Soke" when they develop their own style of martial art.
Gee, I'm amazed no one thought of this one yet :idunno:

[eyebeams]

Bad idea in martial arts: Martial Artists who make up facts around their personal opinions, and end up making themselves look silly.

Dictionary definition of "Professor:"

1 : one that professes , avows, or declares
2 a : a faculty member of the highest academic rank at an institution of higher education b : a teacher at a university, college, or sometimes secondary school c : one that teaches or professes special knowledge of an art, sport, or occupation requiring skill


If one only recognizes definition 2a or 2b, then the Professor title could not be used in martial arts. But, since most of us live in reality where you can't just pick and chose definitions for words, and expect everyone else to follow suit, when you look at ALL the definitions, the title can be used in martial arts.

And, the title is and has been used in martial arts by some very respectible and worthy instructors.

So, MichiganTKD, YOU are wrong. Touch of Death is correct.

Paul
The funny thing with dictionary definitions i that they do not apply to contextual meanings, only to recorded usages. For more information, as an English professor -- no, a real one an an accredited university.

Outside of Hawaiian lineages (where it's a standing tradition), using "professor" to denote a martial arts teacher is silly and invites fraudulent claims. The danger of fraud is real. I can think of at least two instances of deceptove claims stemming directly from aping the titles and format of accredited universities.

Better "Soke," than "Doctor/Professor," in my opinion. A fake "soke-dai" can't be used to cheat professional circles the way a "degree" issued by "faculty" can. Again, Hawaii is the exception.