Cardio Kickboxing/Kickboxing

[47MartialMan]

I do not know if this thread belongs somewhere else, so here we go:

I had visited a friend of mine at a local gym and the gym had Cardio Kickboxing/Kickboxing classes.

I guess they gave it two names in order to show they had something different.

Watching the classes, I get so disgusted on how these people believe that they can actually defend or fight from working out this way.

Cardio Kickboxing, is just another fad term;
which in turned renamed from Tae Bo,
which in turned renamed from Jazzercise,
which in turned renamed from Aerobicise,
which in turned renamed from Aerobics,
which in turned renamed from Calisthenics,
which in turned renamed from Physical Ed,
and so on...if I missed any other names-let me know

One young couple, male and female, were so determined and sweaty, during a recess, they had purchased water. They were actually there as a couple.

I had asked, do they do it for the exercise or for combat/defense?
They replied yes to both.

I had asked, how can they apply what they had just done in combat or defense?
The male wanted to show me a demonstration.

My next demonstration was to swing an ordinary left hook punch at him. He had tried his Cardio Kickboxing/Kickboxing blocking to shield himself. It did little good because my fist still landed on his face. And that wasn't my full speed, power, or moves of deception. And that was when I gave him preparation and insight that I was coming at him.

His face was not bruised, but his ego was. I told them that what they were doing "was far" from actual combat/defense training.

The couple did not attend the rest of the class and instead was "picking my brain", for information on combat/defense.

I had informed them that I teach a self defense class for couple and women over 30 and that the classes are F.O.C.

They could not understand the classes being F.O.C., but the local community has allowed me to conduct these classes in one of their facilities, provided that I did not make any monetary profit.

I had explained that I did this as a "community service", because a good friend of my spouse became the victim of a mugging, in a "well-to-do" neighborhood.Classes were in the summer when I had more time.
The couple had wanted to join/go to these classes immediately.

Back to the thread:
BTW, this is no offense to those fighters that train hard, get in the ring, and actually get a punishment.
A rose by any other name is still a rose.
And cow manure by any other name still stinks.

[MJS]

Cardio Kickboxing is usually billed as teaching both cardio and SD. This however is a great dis-service to people who actually think that they can defend themselves successfully using the moves that they learn. Many times, the class is taught by an aerobics inst. who has little to no MA background. I've seen little to no instruction on how to properly throw the puches and kicks, and this IMO, can and will lead to a serious injury. If a bag is not hit properly, the risk of injury to the hand/foot is great.

Are the classes a great cardio workout?? Yes, but they IMO are not the place to go if you want to learn Martial Arts or SD.

Just my .02.

Mike

[Infrazael]

Anyone that wants to do good SD similar to kickboxing should just take by old-school, hardcore Muay Thai.

[Simon Curran]

Cardio Kickboxing is usually billed as teaching both cardio and SD. This however is a great dis-service to people who actually think that they can defend themselves successfully using the moves that they learn. Many times, the class is taught by an aerobics inst. who has little to no MA background. I've seen little to no instruction on how to properly throw the puches and kicks, and this IMO, can and will lead to a serious injury. If a bag is not hit properly, the risk of injury to the hand/foot is great.

Are the classes a great cardio workout?? Yes, but they IMO are not the place to go if you want to learn Martial Arts or SD.

Just my .02.

Mike
This is just what I was thinking, my girlfriend (God love her...) has absolutely no interest in martial arts, and generally tends to have me around to play the knight in shining armour, however, in order to show her support and encouragement, she stands on the board of our club (we are also a none profit local community club, and by Danish law need a board to ensure everything is above board).
Anyway, back to the point, she has a few times asked me why we don't have one of these Cardio Kickboxing/TaeBo bullcrap sesions "because that is what people want, not techniques"
Despite my insitence that we train in self defence, we did for a (thankfully) very short time, have someone teaching "Girl's kickboxing" which was exactly the same thing (no sparring, no instruction of technique, just a lot of dancing around and skipping...) but as soon as this person got their attendance numbers up, we were no longer needed, and the class was moved elsewhere...
Just goes to show, like water and oil, are self defence and Cardio Kickboxing...

[MJS]

This is just what I was thinking, my girlfriend (God love her...) has absolutely no interest in martial arts, and generally tends to have me around to play the knight in shining armour, however, in order to show her support and encouragement, she stands on the board of our club (we are also a none profit local community club, and by Danish law need a board to ensure everything is above board).
Anyway, back to the point, she has a few times asked me why we don't have one of these Cardio Kickboxing/TaeBo bullcrap sesions "because that is what people want, not techniques"
Despite my insitence that we train in self defence, we did for a (thankfully) very short time, have someone teaching "Girl's kickboxing" which was exactly the same thing (no sparring, no instruction of technique, just a lot of dancing around and skipping...) but as soon as this person got their attendance numbers up, we were no longer needed, and the class was moved elsewhere...
Just goes to show, like water and oil, are self defence and Cardio Kickboxing...

Very well said! :asian: Its sad, because the people doing this fully know that what they're doing is not true SD, but they just want to keep up with the current trend, and the unsuspecting public gets fooled. Amazing what people will do to make a few $$!

IMO, if I was cardio, I'll jog, jump rope, use the wide assortment of machines at the gym, an aerobics class, etc., but if I'm looking for SD, I'm going to join a school.

I agree with your last paragraph...water/oil, SD/CKB....sorry, its just not a good mix.

Mike

[47MartialMan]

Well the trend is also called a fad. And martial arts are no diffeent. As soon as some exposure is put forth on a particular style/system, then people come out of the wood work to join the fad. Thus, this is also called "Jumping on the Bandwagon"

[AnimEdge]

I took a few of those classes at the YMCA(Not for SD) and the teacher(female i havnt seen a kickboxing(workout) teacher(inperson) that was not) anywho she woudl ramble in the end about how she would want to teach a Self Defince Class i knew even before i started MA that she did not know what she was talking about, and i now wish that i asked her what MA she knew if any, and at the Gym we have our classes there is a kickboxing workout class and one of my teachers asked her if she actually knew any MA and she said that she did not and was not interested in learning any(i dont know if she said it in a way she though that KB was better) but i only look at KB for workout and stamina and im glad that you corrected that couple

[MJS]

Well the trend is also called a fad. And martial arts are no diffeent. As soon as some exposure is put forth on a particular style/system, then people come out of the wood work to join the fad. Thus, this is also called "Jumping on the Bandwagon"

This is true. Look at BJJ. Once the UFC came out it seemed like everyone was running out to get certified from the Gracies.

This just goes to show the importance of asking questions before you join something. If you're going to pay for something, you certainly want to make sure its worth it.

Mike

[TigerWoman]

Sure cardio kickboxing is a fad or another new way to exercise. I think that is the point. It gets people in the door to exercise. Maybe to get stronger and healthier, maybe even help in the weight loss. It was not meant to be a self-defense system. Our kickboxing is kicking and punching a bag, pushups, crunches etc. Its a workout. But most people can't take a cardio workout like that for more than 30-40 minutes or so kicking sometimes over their head. I keep them going. Right now I have newbies which can't take much...they think I kill them. Not hardly. But that is their level, right now...and slowly increasing. ;) Now, I have some 20-30 minutes also to fill. Since, the participants of my cardio kickboxing class are already students in TKD, they have alot of self defense already. What they came for was the cardio and strength training. I might help them with their self-defense requirements but most of the time I use to do stretches afterwards.

Sometimes new people will come in just for kickboxing not martial arts. That is the opportunity I have to show them some self-defense. Actually "some" is better than nothing. I just show a few basic techniques and ingrain and strengthen them each week when they come-instead of all the stretching time. No, they aren't invincible, and I tell them that. But they do get stronger and I have seen alot of women going into regular TKD classes because of the intro from cardiokickboxing. So don't knock it. Cardio kickboxing with or without self-defense can serve a purpose if used correctly. TW

[MJS]

Sure cardio kickboxing is a fad or another new way to exercise. I think that is the point. It gets people in the door to exercise. Maybe to get stronger and healthier, maybe even help in the weight loss. It was not meant to be a self-defense system. Our kickboxing is kicking and punching a bag, pushups, crunches etc. Its a workout. But most people can't take a cardio workout like that for more than 30-40 minutes or so kicking sometimes over their head. I keep them going. Right now I have newbies which can't take much...they think I kill them. Not hardly. But that is their level, right now...and slowly increasing. ;) Now, I have some 20-30 minutes also to fill. Since, the participants of my cardio kickboxing class are already students in TKD, they have alot of self defense already. What they came for was the cardio and strength training. I might help them with their self-defense requirements but most of the time I use to do stretches afterwards.

Sometimes new people will come in just for kickboxing not martial arts. That is the opportunity I have to show them some self-defense. Actually "some" is better than nothing. I just show a few basic techniques and ingrain and strengthen them each week when they come-instead of all the stretching time. No, they aren't invincible, and I tell them that. But they do get stronger and I have seen alot of women going into regular TKD classes because of the intro from cardiokickboxing. So don't knock it. Cardio kickboxing with or without self-defense can serve a purpose if used correctly. TW

Agreed, it is another way to exercise. I am certainly not disputing that. What I am disputing is when people say that they will learn SD, how to throw punches and kicks, etc. How can someone who is not a MA instructor, properly train someone to throw a punch and a kick, when they don't know themselves? Now, if the instructor has a background in Martial Arts, thats one thing, but I doubt that they all have that background.

Mike

[47MartialMan]

This is true. Look at BJJ. Once the UFC came out it seemed like everyone was running out to get certified from the Gracies.

This just goes to show the importance of asking questions before you join something. If you're going to pay for something, you certainly want to make sure its worth it.

Mike
yes, but when you are young, there is a certain gullible attitude one has. I was also that way a long time ago.

[MJS]

yes, but when you are young, there is a certain gullible attitude one has. I was also that way a long time ago.

Very true. I think we can all say that at one point we did something without giving it a 2nd thought. That old saying "You learn from your mistakes!" comes to mind here! :)

Mike

[47MartialMan]

Very true. I think we can all say that at one point we did something without giving it a 2nd thought. That old saying "You learn from your mistakes!" comes to mind here! :)

Mike
Yet, when I post something that I have done, it gets flamed. However, I am not trying to flame cardio kickboxing or kickboxing.

But so far, the cardio kickboxing I had encounter, did not appear to be SD or a martial art.

[MJS]

I'm certainly not trying to flame it either. I just feel that things should be explained without having that cloud of mystery hanging overhead. If I'm going to be spending money I want to get the real thing, not something disguised.

As I said, it does provide an excellent source for cardio, but that is how it should be billed.

Just my thoughts.

Mike

[Simon Curran]

Sure cardio kickboxing is a fad or another new way to exercise. I think that is the point. It gets people in the door to exercise. Maybe to get stronger and healthier, maybe even help in the weight loss. It was not meant to be a self-defense system. Our kickboxing is kicking and punching a bag, pushups, crunches etc. Its a workout. But most people can't take a cardio workout like that for more than 30-40 minutes or so kicking sometimes over their head. I keep them going. Right now I have newbies which can't take much...they think I kill them. Not hardly. But that is their level, right now...and slowly increasing. ;) Now, I have some 20-30 minutes also to fill. Since, the participants of my cardio kickboxing class are already students in TKD, they have alot of self defense already. What they came for was the cardio and strength training. I might help them with their self-defense requirements but most of the time I use to do stretches afterwards.

Sometimes new people will come in just for kickboxing not martial arts. That is the opportunity I have to show them some self-defense. Actually "some" is better than nothing. I just show a few basic techniques and ingrain and strengthen them each week when they come-instead of all the stretching time. No, they aren't invincible, and I tell them that. But they do get stronger and I have seen alot of women going into regular TKD classes because of the intro from cardiokickboxing. So don't knock it. Cardio kickboxing with or without self-defense can serve a purpose if used correctly. TW
It is great that you also offer some SD training to the none martial artists you are instructing, but I would think that you are more like the minority than the majority.:asian:

[47MartialMan]

It is great that you also offer some SD training to the none martial artists you are instructing, but I would think that you are more like the minority than the majority.:asian:
I have to agree. So far anyone whom i know to teach or go to it, are not martial art realted per self defense.

It is good that a martial art school teach it verses a gym. TigerWoman has the advantage and the better situation.

[Simon Curran]

I have to agree. So far anyone whom i know to teach or go to it, are not martial art realted per self defense.

It is good that a martial art school teach it verses a gym. TigerWoman has the advantage and the better situation.
My thoughts exactly, I think it really becomes a problem, though, when the unsuspecting "customer" is led to believe that what they are practising could actually be used in a self defence context.

[47MartialMan]

My thoughts exactly, I think it really becomes a problem, though, when the unsuspecting "customer" is led to believe that what they are practising could actually be used in a self defence context.
So do you think these non-martial art cardio instructors should have people understand that what they do is not exactly fighting/defense?

[Simon Curran]

So do you think these non-martial art cardio instructors should have people understand that what they do is not exactly fighting/defense?I think that they should make it clear that whilst what they are learning may look like self defence, without timing distancing etc then it will not be self defence, merely punching into the wind.

[47MartialMan]

I think that they should make it clear that whilst what they are learning may look like self defence, without timing distancing etc then it will not be self defence, merely punching into the wind.Exactly, but watch out, they now have those free-standing dummies.

On a off-topic note...I notice a "flag" next to your name. What nationality is it if I may ask?

[TigerWoman]

Agreed, it is another way to exercise. I am certainly not disputing that. What I am disputing is when people say that they will learn SD, how to throw punches and kicks, etc. How can someone who is not a MA instructor, properly train someone to throw a punch and a kick, when they don't know themselves? Now, if the instructor has a background in Martial Arts, thats one thing, but I doubt that they all have that background.

Mike

I realise there are cardio kickboxing teachers who have no MA training. I checked out the local community ed program and took their classes at least a few times. Her sidekick was a front kick to the diagonal. Her uppercut wasn't nearly right, the pushups were against a wall, and I was the only one who dared to do them on the floor, regular. It was pretty erroneous in teaching what martial arts is really about. But that level was all a lot of those overweight sedentary women could handle at the time and still feel good about themselves. She didn't teach any self defense to her credit. Later, I talked with her and she said she had hip problems and couldn't do it the way I showed her a sidekick. But because of the mailer to every home, she gets new people in there all the time and they exercise, better than sitting on the couch. And maybe they realize and want more of the real thing and contact our dojang. A few do, but very few. But because this fitness instructor has a gazillion classes with community ed, we are only allowed one women's class as in one day advertised in the program mailer. It is advertised as kickboxing, sparring and self-defense but really is regular TKD. We usually get about six people to the other class's 30. TW

[47MartialMan]

It shouldn't be mis-advertised as kickboxing, sparring and self-defense. Because it is only a exercise program. Sounds like something getting hyped and misunderstood for the "almighty dollar".

BTW-Not speaking in terms of you TW, if you include SD in your classes.

[MJS]

I realise there are cardio kickboxing teachers who have no MA training. I checked out the local community ed program and took their classes at least a few times. Her sidekick was a front kick to the diagonal. Her uppercut wasn't nearly right, the pushups were against a wall, and I was the only one who dared to do them on the floor, regular. It was pretty erroneous in teaching what martial arts is really about. But that level was all a lot of those overweight sedentary women could handle at the time and still feel good about themselves. She didn't teach any self defense to her credit. Later, I talked with her and she said she had hip problems and couldn't do it the way I showed her a sidekick. But because of the mailer to every home, she gets new people in there all the time and they exercise, better than sitting on the couch. And maybe they realize and want more of the real thing and contact our dojang. A few do, but very few. But because this fitness instructor has a gazillion classes with community ed, we are only allowed one women's class as in one day advertised in the program mailer. It is advertised as kickboxing, sparring and self-defense but really is regular TKD. We usually get about six people to the other class's 30. TW

Once again, I think that it is great that someone who may be overweight, decides to better their health and do some exercise. Now, unless I'm reading your post wrong, and if I am, please correct me, but it seems that this cardio instructor has no MA background, but she is still throwing kicks and punches, but they are not close to being good because of a hip problem.

So..this goes back to the original question...why are the classes billed as something they are not? Why do people, who have no MA background, even attempting to throw punches and kicks if they can't do them properly? They'd be better off teaching the class as a regular aerobics class.

Mike

[47MartialMan]

Once again, I think that it is great that someone who may be overweight, decides to better their health and do some exercise. Now, unless I'm reading your post wrong, and if I am, please correct me, but it seems that this cardio instructor has no MA background, but she is still throwing kicks and punches, but they are not close to being good because of a hip problem.

So..this goes back to the original question...why are the classes billed as something they are not? Why do people, who have no MA background, even attempting to throw punches and kicks if they can't do them properly? They'd be better off teaching the class as a regular aerobics class.

MikeThis is because people want it both ways without the need for ranking and other martial art studies. It is because the fad is now thought as a way to exercise and be able to fight/defend at the same time, in the same class. It is a polluted mindset that both ways can be fused and shorten in one class structure. It is to draw people in that want to exrecse and believe they can learn fighting/defense methods from those exercises.

This past weekend, a woman approached me and stated that she found out, from a mutual friend at a bar-be-cue picnic, that I had studied and taught martial arts. She said she did Kickboxing. I had replied by asking her; "How many matches did she compete in?"
She answered;-"None".
I had replied; "if one studies kickboxing, then one is inclined to compete and put their skills to the test of application."
She answered; "I was going to ask you if you know any promoters?"
I had replied; Yes, but they are going to want to have you pre-spar REAL kickboxers"
She had asked; "What do you mean by REAL kickboxers?"
I had stated; "The ones whom train and fight combatively against other people"
She had stated; " That she did train combatively"
I had asked; "Did this include sparring other people?"
She replied; "We did not spar"
I had replied; "If you get into an actual ring and did not spar previously to obtain these skills, you (she) will get seriously hurt".

And thus is the polluted mindset that I speak about. I had tried telling her that she actually did not train in kickboxing, but she was headstrong and thinking that she had. It didn't take long for her not wanting to speak to me about it further. Woe the day she tries to use her so called "skills" in actual combat/defense.

[TigerWoman]

It shouldn't be mis-advertised as kickboxing, sparring and self-defense. Because it is only a exercise program. Sounds like something getting hyped and misunderstood for the "almighty dollar".

BTW-Not speaking in terms of you TW, if you include SD in your classes.

Okay my previous post must not have been clear enough. My class at noon is cardio kickboxing w/self-defense-basically an exercise class. Right now, I do it for free and charge nothing to TKD students-an extra class. In the fall, I would like to offer it to the public.

The other class at night is a community ed program class + regular TKD women join in as an extra class. It is advertised by community ed, their terms, "kickboxing, sparring and self-defense". It seems women will come if we just don't call it TKD. :erg: Then the women ask, well what do you do in TKD? So we answer, the same!! Maybe it is misleading but they definitely aren't looking for a line choreographed to music workout like the other community ed kickboxing class. They want to kick and punch something! And it is pretty cheap at two classes a week for eight weeks at 29. of which community ed only pays a nominal fee for the teacher. So no hype or or almighty dollar involved for sure. This is a loss leader for us. TW

[MJS]

I think Simon said it best in post #15...the classes that have someone who actually knows what they're doing are in the minority category. Its important to fully explain the proper way to punch, kick, and hit a bag. If this is not done, injuries can be the result. There are many people out there that are not Marital Artists that are teaching these classes.

As for the class being the same as TKD...again, I may be reading wrong, but I wouldn't say that a cardio KB class is the same as TKD, due to the fact that they would be doing kata as well as kicks that are not part of the CKB program, IE: A jump spinning hook kick.

Mike

[TigerWoman]

I think Simon said it best in post #15...the classes that have someone who actually knows what they're doing are in the minority category. Its important to fully explain the proper way to punch, kick, and hit a bag. If this is not done, injuries can be the result. There are many people out there that are not Marital Artists that are teaching these classes.

As for the class being the same as TKD...again, I may be reading wrong, but I wouldn't say that a cardio KB class is the same as TKD, due to the fact that they would be doing kata as well as kicks that are not part of the CKB program, IE: A jump spinning hook kick.

Mike

The other CKB class in town with the bad hip instructor doesn't do any harm with not advertising it as self-defense or even pretending it is anything but aerobicize with bad punches and kicks. They aren't hitting any bags. It is line choreographed. It was the bad sidekicks that made me tell her she should do the right way for her students. I know when she called sidekick, I threw one and everyone was confused. But, I see your point, but overall, I think the exercise value outweighs that. She is doing front kicks so no harm. Been there a couple of sessions, and the people there are not training for the ring.

Again confused, "Sparring, Kickboxing and Self-defense" is not a kickboxing class, it is a TKD class really. They do everything--form, sparring, bag and paddle workout etc., and self defense but they don't advance unless they test. An illusion was what I was getting at. Its advertised by another organization, com. ed. (not our dojang) who has given it a different name. But the women are going further and signing up to other regular TKD classes after taking this course. Or they can stay forever white belt level and just wear their street clothes as the community ed women are doing right now. But with other TKD women in class, doing their level, it shows them more what TKD is about. Hope that explains it better. TW

[MJS]

The other CKB class in town with the bad hip instructor doesn't do any harm with not advertising it as self-defense or even pretending it is anything but aerobicize with bad punches and kicks. It was the bad sidekicks that made me tell her she should do the right way for her students. So I see your point, but overall, I think the exercise value outweighs that. She is doing front kicks so no harm. Been there a couple of sessions, and the people there are not training for the ring.

I agree that the exercise and cardio value is key. After all, that is what the people are going for in the first place. If this instructor is not a Martial Artist, she should not be attempting to throw these kicks. The bad hip only contributes to something that is going to be improperly taught, although you can't fault her for a medical condition.


Again confused, "Sparring, Kickboxing and Self-defense" is not a kickboxing class, it is a TKD class really. They do everything--form, sparring, bag and paddle workout etc., and self defense but they don't advance unless they test. An illusion was what I was getting at. Its advertised by another organization, com. ed. (not our dojang) who has given it a different name. But the women are going further and signing up to other regular TKD classes after taking this course. Or they can stay forever white belt level and just wear their street clothes as the community ed women are doing right now. But with other TKD women in class, doing their level, it shows them more what TKD is about. Hope that explains it better. TW

Yes, Thank you.

Mike

[TigerWoman]

I agree that the exercise and cardio value is key. After all, that is what the people are going for in the first place. If this instructor is not a Martial Artist, she should not be attempting to throw these kicks. The bad hip only contributes to something that is going to be improperly taught, although you can't fault her for a medical condition.

Mike

Yeah, all her kicks etc. are wrong and weakly done, laughable really, but really just exercise. Its like doing an arm reach with a closed fist, that's a punch! Nothing with power so they are really in Lalaland. But they do, do cardio as she keeps it going. I would love to do a demonstration with two black belt women sparring. That wouldn't happen. Those women don't want to do that, but it would be an awakening! TW

[47MartialMan]

Okay my previous post must not have been clear enough. My class at noon is cardio kickboxing w/self-defense-basically an exercise class. Right now, I do it for free and charge nothing to TKD students-an extra class. In the fall, I would like to offer it to the public.

The other class at night is a community ed program class + regular TKD women join in as an extra class. It is advertised by community ed, their terms, "kickboxing, sparring and self-defense". It seems women will come if we just don't call it TKD. :erg: Then the women ask, well what do you do in TKD? So we answer, the same!! Maybe it is misleading but they definitely aren't looking for a line choreographed to music workout like the other community ed kickboxing class. They want to kick and punch something! And it is pretty cheap at two classes a week for eight weeks at 29. of which community ed only pays a nominal fee for the teacher. So no hype or or almighty dollar involved for sure. This is a loss leader for us. TWI did say I wasnt speaking in terms of yours.

[Simon Curran]

Exactly, but watch out, they now have those free-standing dummies.

On a off-topic note...I notice a "flag" next to your name. What nationality is it if I may ask?
Sorry, just got back to this one, the flag next to my name is the Danish flag (I am an Englishman living in DK)

Back to the topic though, if only more people had the same attitude towards it as you TW, then I wouldn't have a problem with it, but the vast majority, I feel, are just misleading people.

[47MartialMan]

1.) Sorry, just got back to this one, the flag next to my name is the Danish flag (I am an Englishman living in DK)

2.)Back to the topic though, if only more people had the same attitude towards it as you TW, then I wouldn't have a problem with it, but the vast majority, I feel, are just misleading people.
1.) Many martial arts schools nearby?

2.) Hear hear. I feel the same TW. Was what I was trying to say.

[Simon Curran]

1.) Many martial arts schools nearby?


Choices are pretty limited where I live in particular (a couple of "wannabe-ryus" some wing chun, TKD, the usual suspects...)
Elsewhere in Denmark, there are many martial sports schools, but not so many martial arts schools (If you catch my drift...) in fact the term Martial Arts does not actually exist, per se, in the Danish language, the term here is "Fight sport"... Kind of a thorn in my side, but that is a topic for another thread.

[47MartialMan]

Choices are pretty limited where I live in particular (a couple of "wannabe-ryus" some wing chun, TKD, the usual suspects...)
Elsewhere in Denmark, there are many martial sports schools, but not so many martial arts schools (If you catch my drift...) in fact the term Martial Arts does not actually exist, per se, in the Danish language, the term here is "Fight sport"... Kind of a thorn in my side, but that is a topic for another thread.
I too was limited and had a couple of bogus instructors. However, I did leran some interesting methods from them.

[Simon Curran]

I too was limited and had a couple of bogus instructors. However, I did leran some interesting methods from them.
Interesting is kind of an ambiguous word though, I hope that I am done making bad decisions regarding my training.

[47MartialMan]

Interesting is kind of an ambiguous word though, I hope that I am done making bad decisions regarding my training.
For some reason they were "bogus or decietful" of whom they were per name and lineage. But they certainly had skills and training routines.

I could only imagine that they were "running" from something. Because both had "skipped town" without a fore mentioning or goodbye.

However, neither had "charged" me for lessons. neither had sought any compensation from me. I was introduced to them by another martial art practitioner and I guess they had seen my determination after a few classes. And I mean D-E-T-E-R-M-I-N-A-T-I-O-N, as I was fanatical.

But, these were in my pre-teens and teens. And one can undersatnd how younger people feel. in those days, the "almighty internet" or the desire to rsearch a instructor was nit there. You simply looked at a Asian in a martial art uniform, and went to study. Talk about sterotyping, which was prodominent back then.

[TigerWoman]

Back to the topic though, if only more people had the same attitude towards it as you TW, then I wouldn't have a problem with it, but the vast majority, I feel, are just misleading people.

Maybe, but I don't think the other instructor is misleading intentionally just responding to community demand. Years ago, my CKB class started first. The regimen that my instructor set up just ragged everyone. They were flat on the mat after the final crunches and not moving out the door. I lost them one by one-too hard. I dropped it after three years, during which the other gal started hers. She admitted to just copying a bunch of different tape routines. But she had a following-it was easy but still cardio.

So I really don't think you can lump all CKB classes together under one label...they probably run the gamut just like regular martial arts schools. TW

[MJS]

Maybe, but I don't think the other instructor is misleading intentionally just responding to community demand.

But this is exactly what I'm talking about. The general public most likely wants cardio and SD together, rolled into one package. I guess we can look at it a few different ways.

1- Is the public getting cardio? Yes

2- Is the public getting SD? It depends. Is the person teaching it a Martial Artist?

People tend to look at one thing and assume that its all the same. This is the reason why IMHO, they should have it explained to them. If there is no SD included then it should be explained so they don't think that what they're doing is actually SD.

Mike

[TigerWoman]

But this is exactly what I'm talking about. The general public most likely wants cardio and SD together, rolled into one package. I guess we can look at it a few different ways.

There could be many types of CKB classes that the public could want:

(1) Cardio with kicks, punches etc. fun exercise. No self defense wanted.

(2) Cardio kickboxing with self defense as an "extra". (self-defense tolerated)

(3) Cardio kickboxing with an emphasis on self-defense advertised.
(why not just go into martial arts like Kenpo)


Once in a while we do a self-defense class for women. I don't see droves here responding. But we are in a small town and I can take a walk after dark no problem. It probably depends where you are at. Used to live in big cities. There, the CKB classes should teach self-defense but women are still reluctant to learn it. The "can't happen to me until it happens" attitude, sigh! A very small percentage actually want to learn it. Those that really want to learn self-defense also would be more apt to go into martial arts. But this thread is really about cardio kickboxing-exercise not self defense except it is good to push this into the program if you can.
And those places that advertise that an exercise class can be a defense are doing a disservice to their clients (not students). But what can we do? Well, do the real thing, advertise real kickboxing on bags, real self-defense and hope the public is not so gullible. TW

[47MartialMan]

There could be many types of CKB classes that the public could want:

(1) Cardio with kicks, punches etc. fun exercise. No self defense wanted.

(2) Cardio kickboxing with self defense as an "extra". (self-defense tolerated)

(3) Cardio kickboxing with an emphasis on self-defense advertised.
(why not just go into martial arts like Kenpo)
As far as #1, why practice kicks and pinches, per striking as a exercise. Surely there are other exercises that can be generated by the limbs to do the same?

Sorry, TW, not trying to be "cute", just posting a general response :)

[TigerWoman]

As far as #1, why practice kicks and pinches, per striking as a exercise. Surely there are other exercises that can be generated by the limbs to do the same?

Sorry, TW, not trying to be "cute", just posting a general response :)

Because unfortunately it is a fad like you said earlier. Just like aerobic dancing was one once until the high impact got everyone. Well some people just don't want the other kind of high impact. So it is "pretend" kicks and punches. As long as they go, they will do these kinds of classes.
TW

[47MartialMan]

Because unfortunately it is a fad like you said earlier. Just like aerobic dancing was one once until the high impact got everyone. Well some people just don't want the other kind of high impact. So it is "pretend" kicks and punches. As long as they go, they will do these kinds of classes.
TW
But I am glad that you are out there, as a woman who is trying to offer it more than just a fad...:asian: