What is the general feeling you have when seeing.
"Matt Furey"
"Tony Cecchine"
Both of these guys clame to be the only one to train this art and charge an arm and a leg for information on their art. I would like to know who has seen their tapes. I have put alot of time into research of this subject and it seems there is something missing from their discriptions of their arts. Both teach the Catch wrestling as it was taught after WW2 which is a blend of Judo/jiu jitsu. Yukio Tani was a Judo man that changed the Catch wrestling world with the displays of leverage and mat prowess. This made the Catch world morph from pure to a hybrid art form with the world class athletes handling the title belts. What is your perception of these gentlemen and their claims?

I have seen some of the Tony Cecchine tapes. My JKD instructor has high regard for him. His tapes show very good techniques and he has very good explanations. I've seen reviews that say his leg lock tapes are excellent. My instructor has been showing us some of the holds, which are similar to other submission grappling style, but they also have more "dirty" tactics in play and other types of submissions, such as more neck cranks and spine stretches. The main thing about his tapes from what I've seen and heard about them is that the explanation is very clear and useful.

I haven't seen the Matt Furey tapes on Catchwrestling, but I have his book called Combat Conditioning and have seen a video of Karl Gotch teaching his student combat conditioning methods which are excellent. We use the exercises from there and I have seen huge improvements in my fitness. His combat conditioning tape is okay, but does not have the production value that the Cecchine tapes offer.

Bryan

If you are having trouble finding people teaching this "style" try doing a search for "Skull & Knuckles" as it's pretty much the same thing.

I have not seen any material on Skull&knuckle can you post a link.

Try "jailhouserock" or "51 hands" too.

I've seen jail house rock in a book--a collection of various martial arts masters demonstrating their styles.

The book is "Martial Arts Around the World II" by John Steven Soet, a sequel to this book (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0865681511/). Dennis Newsome demonstrates it, as well as Capoeira and two other African or African-derived arts. He also lists a number of other names by which Jailhouse Rock goes. The demonstrations of Jailhouse rock are done in prison uniforms.

I've heard of Jailhouse Rock in the past and understood it to be a fighting 'system' taught by prisoners to prisoners. As such, I find it a bit odd to see anything on it in the popular martial arts media. I've only glanced through Soet's book, but I may take a closer look at it.

Cthulhu

About Catch wrestling... is that essentially what's called Submission wrestling nowadays or is there any fundamental differences?

Originally posted by Hansson

About Catch wrestling... is that essentially what's called Submission wrestling nowadays or is there any fundamental differences?

I think submission wrestling is a general term for the whole gamut of grappling with submissions, like BJJ, wrestling with submission holds, Sambo etc.

Catchwrestling (at least the way Tony Cecchine explains it on his videos) is an art which uses submissions as well. A difference between some of the submissions used in catchwrestling that might be different from sport submission grappling seem to be the emphasis more on "dirty fighting" and crippling locks then on positional grappling. It's sort of hard to explain without seeing it done.

Bryan

Speaking of "dirty wrestling" I just picked up an old copy of "Judo" Gene Lebell's Pro-Wrestling Finishing Holds. It if just full of great submission hold. However, alot of them would be illegal in many competions. Tons of neck cranks, spine manipulation and finger locks.

Tony

Originally posted by tmanifold

Speaking of "dirty wrestling" I just picked up an old copy of "Judo" Gene Lebell's Pro-Wrestling Finishing Holds. It if just full of great submission hold. However, alot of them would be illegal in many competions. Tons of neck cranks, spine manipulation and finger locks.

Tony

But would the holds be illegal on the street where it actually matters? I don't think so. I have the book also and would highly recommend it. It has some aweome holds in it.

Originally posted by Kenpo Wolf



But would the holds be illegal on the street where it actually matters? I don't think so. I have the book also and would highly recommend it. It has some aweome holds in it.

Why do you think I got it:wink:

Personally, I think anything By Lebell is great.

tony

He Rocks.
><><><

I don't know Matt Fury personally but I cross-train with a fellow Deputy that trained with him for quite a while. In fact my friend is in his book 'Combat Conditioning'. Matt received his catch training from Karl Goch. Both are hard core and tough from what I've been told..perhaps a bit to tough. No personal experience though.

:asian:

Does anyone teach Catch wrestling here in Toronto, Canada?

Stay away from the Furey stuff. Stick with Cecchine. Tony's an incredibly nice guy (I spoke with him, once, on the phone, in discussing my review of his "Lucky 13" tape) and knows his stuff.

http://www.catchwrestle.com

Stay away from the Furey stuff.

:confused:

His personality? The expense?

:asian:

I think it's sad that Catch was so popular as late as the 1950's, yet there are only a couple of people who teach it today. I, like just about everybody else, have only heard of Furey and Cecchine (I also heard rumblings of some school in Texas teaching Catch a while ago). It seems like some of those old wrestlers would have set up shop somewhere and taught something more than the show-holds on tv now. Ah well.
People have problems with Furey for lots of reasons. He's just not a likeable guy. He trained under Cecchine for a while, got booted. Trained under Gotch for a while, got booted. Now says he trains under the ghost of Farmer Burns. If he gets booted now, he'll probably go crazy. From what I've heard, his stuff is not garbage, but he is very, very expensive to learn and buy from. Cecchine has better prices, better rep, and really is the last public representative of Catch. If you want to learn the style, I suggest you buy or train with Tony. Buy from Furey only if you have thousands of dollars to burn.

I can't believe I just found this thread. Yes, Stick with Cecchine. There are only 4 certified catch wrestlers ("Hookers")alive. three are in their seventies, tony is 39. Up until about a year ago Tony trained for his own personal advancement and worked with a small group of guys in Chicago and did the occasional seminar. His main reason for being rather careful about what he taught and who he taught were that so many people stole his stuff and credited it to BJJ or some other art instead of Catch. After a very serious illness last year he has realized that he cannot let Catch die and he cannot let people who have no skills, knowledge, or experience promote it. He has, therefore, created the International Catch Wrestling Association (ICWA) www.icwa.tv and he has his www.catchwrestle.com
For the record, the snake oil salesman in Florida only had a couple of privates with Tony, yet from the BS that he spews you would think it was two years.

Tony is a great human being and is with out a doubt the most knowledgeable and real world experienced fighter I have ever known or trained with. He is the most dangerous human being I have ever seen.

If you are interested in the history of catch wrestling you should petition Tony to get on his private forum. He has two of the world's most renowned historians of wrestling on the forum and the history section is outstanding. He is very selective about whom he allows on it so you will probably have to get a recommendation from someone.

I had been wondering how many Catch wrestlers were really left. Thanks for that. Do you happen to know if there is any truth to the rumours of a Catch group in Texas. After I wrote it, it was bugging me because I wasn't sure.

Dear Western:
Yes there are two groups in Texas. One in Houston and one in Waco. You can contact Mik Henery at mik@icwa.tv for information.
It says you live in Chicago. I gather that you realize that Chicago is the world headquarters for Catch and the ICWA.

Hope this helps. Catch is growing exponentially all over the globe.

I see from your pofile that you list Catch as one of your arts. Do you train in catch? do I know you?

I need to put in a disclaimer: I don't know Matt Fury personally nor I'm I his PR man. However, one of the Deputies on my shift that I occasionally cross-train with, did train with him for a couple of years. As well as Karl Gotch who Matt credits for teaching him. Matt does hold Kung Fu credentials and medals from my understanding before Karl taught him catch. He is a business man to be sure, and from what I understand pretty hard core on the mat. But I don't think it would be fair to characterize him as a snake oil salesman.

Just my two cents.

:asian:

No, evangelist, you don't know me. Though I have posted a handful of times on the Catch board. Mainly when the discussion strayed into pugilism. I don't have an active record in training catch. Just a couple of books and a very strong interest. I moved to Chicago only recently and I have shot Tony an email about training a couple of weeks ago, but I haven't heard back yet. I assume he gets a lot of mail and just hasn't had time.

I asked about the Texas group because when I heard of them (this was a year or two ago) they were unaffiliated with anyone else. So my interest in them was wondering where they were getting their experience from.

Dear West,
Yes, he gets unfathomable amounts of e-mail. And many are people who are not serious so he is often hesitant to reply. He, like all of us, only has so many hours in the day. He is also extremely busy with the ICWA business, his own personal training, and training his guys. However, if you will e-mail me privately and give me your name and contact info, I talk with tony almost daily and will see if I can get him to contact you.
best regards,

I personally think that Matt Fury has great some great products I bought the combat condtioning videos and learned some great stuff and it put me into some great shape.

[QUOTE=Sharp Phil]Stay away from the Furey stuff. Stick with Cecchine. Tony's an incredibly nice guy (I spoke with him, once, on the phone, in discussing my review of his "Lucky 13" tape) and knows his stuff.


For this guys to say "stay away from Furey stuff" is ignorant and uneducated.
I can understand his allegiance to Tony but if you are going to say something like that about another teacher/fighter, at least back it up with something other than his videos are expensive....

I got more out of Matt Furey's tapes and books than I did taking 2 years of Kung-Fu in a school.

just my .02

This subject is very interesting to me. I also have a great interest in Catch Wrestling. I have a copy of the old Farmer Burns mail order course which also features Frank Gotch. It is fantastic. Gene Lebell's books are great too, as are the two from Mark Hatmaker. I haven't bought any from Fury for the lack of money, but it sounds like Cecchine might be a better way to go. I am amazed at how well these holds work on the average grappler in the dojo. They are totally unprepared for them.

Listen to the Old Tiger, the "OLD" man know what he's talking about.

This subject is very interesting to me. I am amazed at how well these holds work on the average grappler in the dojo. They are totally unprepared for them.
I've noticed the same. Some teachs remind me of Sombo. I might buy Cechinnes "hooking" tape. That would fit me as an artist.