US Flag

[Turner]

How many Americans wear the US Flag patch on their Gi?

I was digging through my closet yesterday and pulled out my Tang Soo Do uniform and was quite surprised to see the US Flag on the right shoulder. I was embarassed because I should have known better and my TSD instructor, a ret. USAF Lt. Col., should have known better too. I learned in the military that the flag was only to be worn on the left side of the uniform or if on both shoulders the right was to be a reverse image. Secondly, according to the US Flag code, the flag is not to be worn on or as any part of any clothing, especially athletic uniforms, with the exceptions of military, police, firefighters or other patriotic organizations (such as boy scouts and veteran's organizations). I don't know about you, but I definately consider a Gi an athletic uniform.

Just one of many of my pet peeves. I encourage everyone to be patriotic to their country and be proud of their flag, but don't display it improperly and inappropriately.

But that is just me....

[Kempojujutsu]

It is the only flag patch, I let my students wear. We wear it on the left side of the gi and I don't consider a gi an athletic clothing. But we don't do tournaments either.
Bob:asian:

[Turner]

Oops, I made a mistake. It is allowed to be worn soley on the right shoulder of a military, fireman, police, or patriotic organization... but must be a reverse image.

The patch is considered to be the American Flag and according to the US Flag code (written by congress, not by me) it is not appropriate to wear it on costumes, athletic uniforms, jackets or other attire aside from the afore mentioned organizations.

This is the last I'll say on this because it is not something that can or should be argued. Treat the flag as you see fit, but I do implore you to treat it appropriately and with the respect it deserves.

[Yari]

Originally posted by Turner

How many Americans wear the US Flag patch on their Gi?




I don't ....

But that's maybe because I'm danish and live in Denmark :D

Couldn't help myself, hope I didn't step on any toes....

But I agee with Turner, respect the people who are /were there to make you to what your are today. And this is done by part of respecting their symbols!

/Yari

[littlecrane]

By "reverse image," I assume you mean flipped, so that the blue field is in the upper right corner, rather than upside down (a distress signal) or reverse colors, replacing green, black and yellow for red white and blue. Is this correct?

FYI - I've been told that the proper disposal of a flag if the enemy is taking over the fort and you're pulling out is for the last guy to take down the flag, cut the stars from the stripes, bury the stripes and burn the stars. The guy who does this gets a gun with two bullets in it. He's supposed to use the first bullet on the first enemy who comes over the wall, and he can use the second bullet at his discretion. I guess you have to have the hole and the fire ready in advance for this to work. Sorry, I don't know what army manual this came from.

[tonbo]

Our school actually has the flag optional, on the left shoulder of the gi if you choose to wear it. I personally do wear the flag patch, but have done so out of a sense of pride in my country, not out of any attempt to be flashy or disrespectful.

I understand the flag code, and agree with it for the most part. However, since September, there have been an increase in shirts and pins with the flag on them, and I don't think that they should necessarily fall under any scrutiny for not adhering to the code. This is assuming they are tastefully done, or are not meant to offend. Offensive shirts should be canned....but that is my personal opinion.

As well, I don't mean to step on any toes. I consider myself quite patriotic, and don't mean to disrespect the flag or my country in any way.

Peace--

[GouRonin]

I wear my Flag on my right sleeve. Since the Canadian Flag is the same no matter what sleeve it goes on I don't have to worry about it being reversed.

Some say to wear it on your left so it's close to your heart but I have my personal symbol there. I wear my flag on my workout gear usually when out of the country because I want people to know where I come from.

[Rich Parsons]

Dear Sir,

You seem to know a lot about the US Flag and how and where
it can be worn. I assume the revese image is for the effect
of the person seeing it.

My Question is, What is the Proper Way to dispose of a US FLag?
Assuming it is old and battered and torn.


Thanks

Rich

:confused:

[girlychuks]

Interesting quandry-

I do wear my flag patch on the right sleeve of my Gi. The US is the country of origin of my MA.

As far as the flag goes..... I am the -daughter of a Vietnam vet, I say the pledge and pay my taxes. I wear the flag to honor my country... and as far as I am concerned, just cuz the government says it is the right way to do it, doesn;t mean it is.

Meaning, that I think the bending of the flag code to raise public patriotism and awareness is acceptable... an OK tradeoff in my book.

[girlychuks]

I was always told, as a fledgling Girl Scout, to either solemnly burn a tattered flag, or give it to the Boy Scouts, and they had a solemn burning ceremony.

[cdhall]

Originally posted by Rich Parsons

Dear Sir,

You seem to know a lot about the US Flag and how and where
it can be worn. I assume the revese image is for the effect
of the person seeing it.

My Question is, What is the Proper Way to dispose of a US FLag?
Assuming it is old and battered and torn.


Thanks

Rich

:confused:

The URL for the Flag code and info is
http://www.usflag.org/

I think the code is actually down here somewhere
http://www.usflag.org/us.code36.html

I also want to say that I had always wanted to wear a flag patch but it is not authorized. I will look at this more closely before I put one on. Thanks for starting this thread.

As for disposing, which I am also curious about because I have a 9/11 flag on my car that is very dirty and in need of replacing but it is polyester and probably won't burn well, I found disposal info here
http://www.usflag.org/flag.etiquette.html

"The flag should be cleaned and mended when necessary.

When a flag is so worn it is no longer fit to serve as a symbol of our country, it should be destroyed by burning in a dignified manner.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Note: Most American Legion Posts regularly conduct a dignified flag burning ceremony, often on Flag Day, June 14th. Contact your local American Legion Hall and inquire about the availability of this service."

[tshadowchaser]

With due respect to the flag code and to those who wish to uphold it as it is written.
I put my time in hell serveing this country in places I will not discribe. If I choose to wear the flag as a patch on my uniform In respect for my country I will. I figure those friends that I once had that are no longer here paid a high price for me to be able to proudly wear the colors of my country.
Shadow:asian:

[karatekid1975]

In my TSD school, we wore the flag (US) on the left shoulder, and the korean flag on the right. It was placed the same on the wall in the dojang. To me, that is (wearing or hanging both flags) respecting both your country and the country where your art came from. We had the assn flag in the middle. If you do an American art, by all means, wear the flag and display it proudly.

I am also I daughter of a Veitnam Vet and I agree with girlychucks.

In my new school, I am confused because they don't do this, or have an American flag or Korean flag. They only have the WTF TKD one and the flag of the assn. In my oppinion, I think they should have the American flag, Korean Flag (for the Korean Art), Chinese flag (for Kung Fu and Tai Chi), and the assn flag. We have TKD, Kung fu and Tai Chi, so the three country flags would respectfully be there for those countries, and ours. Plus the Assn flag. To me, that is respecting the countries where the arts came from, the assn, and our country.

[Turner]

I assume the revese image is for the effect of the person seeing it

If what I was taught in the Air Force is correct, the reverse image on the right side is due to the fact that the flag is supposed to be worn on the left and so if it is on the right it should be given the appearance of the flag flying.


My Question is, What is the Proper Way to dispose of a US FLag?

When a flag is so worn it is no longer fit to serve as a symbol of our country, it should be destroyed by burning in a dignified manner. For individual citizens, this should be done discreetly so the act of destruction is not perceived as a protest or desecration.

There are no prescribed rituals for retiring the flag, but If retiring the flag as a family the following steps might be appropriate:

1 Gather the family around. Raise the flag on the pole or staff or hold it aloft by hand.
2. Call the group to attention, salute and recite the Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag.
3. Fold the flag
4. Give the flag to the head of the family in the proper manner, who will burn it until it is completely consumed.

Or just simply give it to your local Boy Scouts of America troop, Veterans of Foreign Wars, American Legion, or ELKs lodge for them to retire it.

[Rich Parsons]

Thanks Everyone!

The information is good and will be put to good
use by me and others.

Thanks

Rich

[sweeper]

I understand the need for guidlines on the display of the flag, but I think they do infringe on our freedom of speech.. and if the intent of that speech is to show patriotism than I don't see why it should be disputed. However I do think it's kinda odd how after 9/11 a bunch of people start wearing american flags but don't stop to think why..

[Kempojujutsu]

The Reason why I wear American Flag, my Sensei. To show him and my grandfather respect because he was Vietnam Vet. His father and my Grandfather were World War II Vets. Alot of Vets wear Hats with American Flag on them and they have earn that right to do so. Are you going to tell them they can't, because of some flag rule. You're probably going to get punch in the mouth if you even sugguest that by some angry Vet.
Bob :soapbox:

[Kirk]

Originally posted by girlychuks

I was always told, as a fledgling Girl Scout, to either solemnly burn a tattered flag, or give it to the Boy Scouts, and they had a solemn burning ceremony.

As an old boy scout, let me chime in on this. I've seen several
ceremonies. Probably about a dozen or so given by the same
master of ceremonies. It was always very touching.

In boy scouts, we were told that the proper way to dispose of a
flag is to cut out each star, and each stripe, then bury or burn the
items collectively. Try giving a veteran some scissors to do this.
Most will sog the flag with tears. I asked the M.C. that I've seen
do the ceremonies about this, and he felt that so long as it's done
in an honorable fashion, then he didn't consider it improper. I
happen to agree. That being said, the way I've seen (probably
30 - 40) of them done, was to say some words about the flag,
it's meaning, and how this one is done doing it's service to
the country, etc ... and then lay it atop a GOOD fire, not coals,
and lay it stars up to burn, as all lay their right hand over their
heart.

[karatekid1975]

Sweeper, I agree. But for me, I wear/display my country's flag with pride (even before 9/11).

I also agree with Kempo. My dad is a Veitnam vet, and he'd do the same thing if you told him that.

[Monkey King]

The Flag is considered a living symbol.

(a) The flag should never be displayed with the union down, except as a signal of dire distress in instances of extreme danger to life or property.
(b) The flag should never touch anything beneath it, such as the ground, the floor, water, or merchandise.
(c) The flag should never be carried flat or horizontally, but always aloft and free.
(d) The flag should never be used as wearing apparel, bedding, or drapery. It should never be festooned, drawn back, nor up, in folds, but always allowed to fall free. Bunting of blue, white, and red, always arranged with the blue above, the white in the middle, and the red below, should be used for covering a speaker's desk, draping the front of the platform, and for decoration in general.
(e) The flag should never be fastened, displayed, used, or stored in such a manner as to permit it to be easily torn, soiled, or damaged in any way.
(f) The flag should never be used as a covering for a ceiling.
(g) The flag should never have placed upon it, nor on any part of it, nor attached to it any mark, insignia, letter, word, figure, design, picture, or drawing of any nature.
(h) The flag should never be used as a receptacle for receiving, holding, carrying, or delivering anything.
(i) The flag should never be used for advertising purposes in any manner whatsoever. It should not be embroidered on such articles as cushions or handkerchiefs and the like, printed or otherwise impressed on paper napkins or boxes or anything that is designed for temporary use and discard. Advertising signs should not be fastened to a staff or halyard from which the flag is flown.
(j) No part of the flag should ever be used as a costume or athletic uniform. However, a flag patch may be affixed to the uniform of military personnel, firemen, policemen, and members of patriotic organizations. The flag represents a living country and is itself considered a living thing. Therefore, the lapel flag pin being a replica, should be worn on the left lapel near the heart.
(k) The flag, when it is in such condition that it is no longer a fitting emblem for display, should be destroyed in a dignified way, preferably by burning.

[sweeper]

(i) The flag should never be used for advertising purposes in any manner whatsoever. It should not be embroidered on such articles as cushions or handkerchiefs and the like, printed or otherwise impressed on paper napkins or boxes or anything that is designed for temporary use and discard. Advertising signs should not be fastened to a staff or halyard from which the flag is flown.

That probably the most anoying thing about post 9/11. american companies trying to cash in on the surge of patriotism. virtualy all companies do it to..

[Monkey King]

I think that the flag code needs to be updated. There's a whole new generation out there that doesn't know proper flag etiquitte. But also due to the sudden surge of patriotism, I see flags everywhere they shouldn't be. But these people are doing what's in their hearts to show their patriotism.

[sweeper]

sometimes.. it's one ting to put a flag in your car window.. it's another to sell it for anything over cost. I don't think the flag should ever be used to sell things..

[Monkey King]

I agree

[tonbo]

I agree about the dignity that should be accorded to the flag, and that it should not be used to sell merchandise. However, you are going to run into a problem with a lot of Americans who don't know anything about *any* part of the flag code. Hey, the 4th of July is coming up, and you can *always* find napkins, placemats, etc., you name it, with the flag on it for that holiday. Most people tend to think that if you aren't prominently displaying the flag (i.e., through merchandise), then you aren't being patriotic enough.

I would agree that it is probably a good time to get out the word to the general public about the flag, and how to give it some deeper meaning. Let's bring the flag back to what it once was to the whole public: Old Glory, who *is*, in my opinion, a living entity.

I am no veteran, but many in my family are. I am proud of them and of all that serve our country, and all that have served our country in the past. Demeaning the flag or otherwise not according it the honor it deserves is to lessen their memory.

*Proudly* display the flag? Yes. *Improperly* display the flag? Uhhhh....NO.

Peace--

[Chiduce]

Originally posted by littlecrane

By "reverse image," I assume you mean flipped, so that the blue field is in the upper right corner, rather than upside down (a distress signal) or reverse colors, replacing green, black and yellow for red white and blue. Is this correct?

FYI - I've been told that the proper disposal of a flag if the enemy is taking over the fort and you're pulling out is for the last guy to take down the flag, cut the stars from the stripes, bury the stripes and burn the stars. The guy who does this gets a gun with two bullets in it. He's supposed to use the first bullet on the first enemy who comes over the wall, and he can use the second bullet at his discretion. I guess you have to have the hole and the fire ready in advance for this to work. Sorry, I don't know what army manual this came from. The way it was told to me, that the flag pole had a secret message in the top of the pole and that you were to climb the pole, capture the flag, read the message, destroy it, get the gun and shoot yourself in the head to not reveal the message contents! Sincerely, In Humility, Chiduce!

[Monkey King]

The way it was told to me, that the flag pole had a secret message in the top of the pole and that you were to climb the pole, capture the flag, read the message, destroy it, get the gun and shoot yourself in the head to not reveal the message contents!

Not true.

The ball at the top of the flagpole is called a "Truck". Inside the truck is a .45 caliber bullet and a bullet for an M-16 rifle. In the event the Truck falls and hits the ground it is designated to break into 13 pieces, representing the original colonies.
At the base is a box buried in concrete. This box contains one saber, a pistol and book of matches. In the event the enemy invades,the survivor is to defend the flag with the saber and pistol and burn the flag with the matches so that the enemy cannot capture it.

[LanceWildcat1]

How many Americans wear the US Flag patch on their Gi?

As a disabled Vietnam Vet, I proudly wear the flag on my uniform. I wear it on the left shoulder. I fly it from my vehicle. I haven't just done this since 9/11, I've done this since 1969, when I got back from my sunny 'vacation' in Vietnam. Too many of my friends in 'Nam died for the principle's embodied in that piece of fabric for me to not display it. When I got back from Vietnam and went to college, 1971, we had a group that hung the flag over the railing on their dorm room, upside down and UNDER the swastika!! The college didn't have a chance to do anything to them, as there were about 40 'Nam vets that saw this desecration and took care of it. No muss, no fuss. But the college doctor's office had some business shortly afterward! I proudly display the flag of my country, and to hell with anyone who doesn't like it-I earned the right!
:soapbox:

[Kempojujutsu]

Lance, My instuctor is Viet Nam Vet also. You both think alike. We wear U.S. Flag on the left shoulder and is the only flag in are school. He would also say to hell with any other flag flown in are school. I also see you are into Kempo JuJutsu also. There are very few of us on here. Wanted to tell you welcome back to the U.S. I kinda get upset to see that Viet Nam Vets don't get alot of the same respect as men and women that sever in the other Wars.
Bob :asian: