Kenpo Associations

[Hawkeye]

Riddle me this guys. Why is it every time someone wants to "unify or help" the art of Kenpo, they decide to create their own - Kenpo union, association, society or such?

There is a new Kenpo association looming on the horizon. I believe it is the UKKA (Universal Kenpo Karate Assn.) Forming for the benefit of artists and helping those without students or business to succeed in Kenpo business.

Why can't we all just get along? Maybe we could get all the Kenpo "Godfathers" together for a meet and greet. They could hash out "territories" and merge into say....maybe the IKKA....and just rule over regions or areas or states or something.

Enough already. Everytime someone can't service thier ego they have to create a new Kenpo organization. Okay, that's my rant for the week.

Hawkeye.

[Kenpobuff]

I'll keep this simple: I agree!

[Blindside]

Personally I don't see much need for organizations, it leads to too much clanism (is that a word) between people who essentially study the same art. No alphabet soup of letters ever made anyone fight better. Most martial art instruction takes place between instructor and student, it doesn't freakin' matter who the head of the organization is to 99% of the kenpo students out there, they are too worried about meeting the requirements of their own instructor. I say we ban all the organizations and save the average student some money.

Lamont

[Kembudo-Kai Kempoka]

I say all those against this trend form an association of like-minded individuals, and help kenpo by providing anti-association folk a place to call home.

Um, wait a minute...

[Kosho-Monk]

I think most associations/organizations are founded with good intentions. But it seems to me that they all want you to spend money to simply be part of them. And what do you get in return? Not much if you ask me.

I belong to a few groups and I have never seen any kind of discounts or real benefits from being a member.

But I have heard of some groups that do have hard-working folks leading them. The tops guys/girls are not in it for the money. Instead they do it because they truly love what they're teaching.

This reminds me of music bands. You have the one or two bands that start a trend - because they're really good. Then you have the 40-50 sucky bands that try to immitate and get in on the profits. Everyone then gets tired of that kind of music and all of a sudden a new kind of music is born. And, of course, the cycle begins again.

Most of these Kenpo/Kempo groups today are just sucky immitations of something that was once good. They'll die out in a few years and something better will come along. It's the American way!


-John

[Blindside]

I think most associations/organizations are founded with good intentions. But it seems to me that they all want you to spend money to simply be part of them. And what do you get in return? Not much if you ask me.

You forgot this is kenpo we are talking about here, for your yearly membership you get to wear a fancy patch on your chest. :)

Lamont

[Ray]

You forgot this is kenpo we are talking about here, for your yearly membership you get to wear a fancy patch on your chest. I got a "school membership" in an association once, I got a 8-1/2"x11" certificate to hang on the wall of my dojo. I never got an email, I never got a newsletter, a phone call, etc. When the year was up, I did get a notice that my school's membership was about to expire.

It's okay, they had a funky patch. I rather like the IKKA patch anyway (although I've never been a member of it).

[Acordskenpo]

Riddle me this guys. Why is it every time someone wants to "unify or help" the art of Kenpo, they decide to create their own - Kenpo union, association, society or such?

There is a new Kenpo association looming on the horizon. I believe it is the UKKA (Universal Kenpo Karate Assn.) Forming for the benefit of artists and helping those without students or business to succeed in Kenpo business.

Why can't we all just get along? Maybe we could get all the Kenpo "Godfathers" together for a meet and greet. They could hash out "territories" and merge into say....maybe the IKKA....and just rule over regions or areas or states or something.

Enough already. Everytime someone can't service thier ego they have to create a new Kenpo organization. Okay, that's my rant for the week.

Hawkeye.Riddle me this, How many “associations, organizations, societies” help their members other than giving them a patch and a certificate to hang on their wall?


How many of the current entities help their members with staff development? Staff development is a key factor in running a successful martial arts studio.

How many of the current entities help their members with introduction programs, phone-call procedures, overcoming objections, mentorship programs, etc?

How many of the current new associations, show their members how to generate leads and increase revenue? , So the DOORS STAY OPEN.

How many out there can help new and old studios, increase point of sale revenue, help with facility configuration, front desk/back office networks, standard operation procedures, etc.?

EGO as you put it, aside, how many of you have seen a Kenpo/Kempo studio open, only to have its doors close in a couple months, because they could not afford to keep the lights on? How many of you, has attended a studio, and fell in love immediately, only to have your heart broken when they close the doors, right before you are about to achieve your goals.


YES, the IKKA would be a great choice to help all this come about, but alas, IT ISN’T GOING TO HAPPEN!!!. You think Mr. Tatum, Mr. Sullivan, and others are going to leave their organizations (and the revenue they generate) to re join the IKKA to make the world a better place? Come on now!

Of course, dreams do come true, so keep dreaming….


The UKKA is being created to help and share information, NO its not the IKKA, but the IKKA as we all knew it, is dead! The main goal of the UKKA is to help studio owners develop and grow, aside from being able to teach the martial arts, a good studio owner/instructor must be able to keep the doors open and grow.

So what do you think?

Here is my last thought to Hawkeye....



First, all criticism must be done with love, can only be done from love. This is true in both arts criticism and critical art – or criticism of any kind. Criticism without love is spite. Those who criticize without loving what they criticize do so out of spite – too often because what they are criticizing is good, and they hate it for that very reason. Their only purpose is to tear down what they criticize. There are, of course, bad things that must be torn down, but one does not criticize these things – one attacks them.




Alex Andrews

[Kembudo-Kai Kempoka]

Are you suggesting your detractors should attack you? Is that an invitation on a forum where such attacks are verboten?

Aside from the absolute lack of need for yet another kenpo association, some good thoughts. Most assn's do not provide support. Does that mean we need more? Nah.

Dave

[Acordskenpo]

I think the literal word of association is what makes everyone think, patch and certificate, and that’s it, its not an issue of being an association, it’s the support network that it provides, would it be better and more effective if you call it the Universal Kenpo Consultation, I think not, then name doesn’t matter as much as what a person benefits from it, there are thousands of students that have been burnt by a majority of organizations that have sprung up since Mr. Parkers passing…. Has any one of these given the support to a studio owner that can help him/her keep his doors open?



In my opinion which may not mean much to anyone here, most people I meet are stuck in the glory years of the IKKA, they compare everyone and everything to that period of time, the polls, the opinions, the trash talk, the not so nice attitude, towards senior instructors, that do their own thing, that change the written biblical word of Mr. Parker, etc. Is it not the goal of everyone to learn more and adapt, to keep the important stuff and discard the not so important stuff (that doesn’t work)



This is my first time on this forum, and for the last several hours I have been reading a lot of the posts, everyone has an opinion, like many of stated, that is their opinion so as true artists, why should anyone knock another or bad mouth the way someone is doing something, To each his own, I agree with many that there is a lot of junk out there, but one mans junk is another mans treasure.

WHY CAN WE JUST GET ALONG! , LOL

Alex

[Randy Strausbaugh]

The UKKA is being created to help and share information, NO its not the IKKA, but the IKKA as we all knew it, is dead! The main goal of the UKKA is to help studio owners develop and grow, aside from being able to teach the martial arts, a good studio owner/instructor must be able to keep the doors open and grow.
I see by your profile that you formerly studied with Jay T. Will. Is this new UKKA in any way associated/related to Jay's UKKA, which he started in the '80s?

[Hawkeye]

Oops. Apparantly I struck a nerve. I'm sorry. I didn't say anything about Acord's Kenpo or Mr. Acord. Mr. Andrews used their "letterhead" to address his concerns. I will give him credit for signing his response. That being said, he has my email address and phone number if he disagrees with me enough to call. Maybe he tried, but at 12:12 I was competing in a tournament.

Mr. Acord happens to be the one that told me that "ego" has everything to do with it. I do however have issue with Mr. Andrew's hiding behind the "AcordsKenpo" tag instead of just being Mr. Andrews. I guess I'll be banned from thier board now. I'll let you know if it happens.

Maybe all the other associations will just merge with the UKKA. That would unify the art.

Hawkeye, Steve Crain

[masherdong]

All righty then.

[Mark Weiser]

Okay I have been watching and reading this thread. I will throw my weight into the fray.

I have belonged to several Associations during my studies of MA. Honestly most of them once they have your funds never talk to you again except to send you an annual renewal notice.

However with the Acord Studios I have had daily if not several times a day contact with Mr. Acord himself or one of his instructors. They answer my questions without hesitation or reservation. I am looking forward to the support they are promising and the Programs they are bringing into play.

I find it very refreshing the support I currently receive and looking forward to the UKKA to check them out and see what can be done for us Instructors that have or currently struggle in the BIZ. Additionally in all Human communications there are varied interputations in what is said and what is received. I am sure this is a misunderstanding between two good people. I hope it works out with everyone involved.

Sincerely,

Mark E. Weiser

[Kenpomachine]

Riddle me this, How many “associations, organizations, societies” help their members other than giving them a patch and a certificate to hang on their wall?


How many of the current entities help their members with staff development? Staff development is a key factor in running a successful martial arts studio.

How many of the current entities help their members with introduction programs, phone-call procedures, overcoming objections, mentorship programs, etc?

How many of the current new associations, show their members how to generate leads and increase revenue? , So the DOORS STAY OPEN.

How many out there can help new and old studios, increase point of sale revenue, help with facility configuration, front desk/back office networks, standard operation procedures, etc.?
You've given a nice list of things an assn. should do to the schools that joint them, but I miss a list of what they have to offer to their students, like seminars, camps, invited instructors (which mean for the student no money), health insurance... and of course, belt recognition.

[Acordskenpo]

I see by your profile that you formerly studied with Jay T. Will. Is this new UKKA in any way associated/related to Jay's UKKA, which he started in the '80s?
No, Although the United Kenpo Karate Association is in the process of starting once again, there is no connection.

Alex

[Acordskenpo]

You've given a nice list of things an assn. should do to the schools that joint them, but I miss a list of what they have to offer to their students, like seminars, camps, invited instructors (which mean for the student no money), health insurance... and of course, belt recognition.
This is my point exactly, the UKKA, is not an association for the general student, this is an organization for the studio Owner/Student/Instructor. The mindset of many is that this association is for the student, in a way it is, but only second hand.


The purpose of the UKKA is to better the student’s martial arts experience by providing qualified studio operators and management teams. No successful studio is going to continue to operate in the black, if the Owners/Instructors cannot financially operate their business.

First, they need to provide a strong curriculum and a management/instructor team that is able to motivate and guide students in a direction that allows them to accomplish their goals.

Second, They need to have the correct business skills to allow the doors to stay open, to enhance their profitability, to insure that their business practices are able to have the studios grow and expand, and to increase the student retention.


Hawkeye’s original interpretation of the UKKA was made without having any knowledge of the mission statement for the organization. He literally JUMPED THE GUN.


Alex Andrews

[Brother John]

Riddle me this, How many “associations, organizations, societies” help their members other than giving them a patch and a certificate to hang on their wall?
Alex Andrews
Hmmm...
I don't know about the rest of your 'beef' but I can tell you that I've gotten a TON of help from members in the AKKI!!! (My association, the only one I'm in any way qualified to talk about) They help with further instruction, a great willingness to help... costs are very very reasonable.
Patch? Sure. We get those, and really...they look cool. But that's the wall paper. The "Help" I get otherwise Blows me away!

Your Brother
John

[Hawkeye]

....the UKKA, is not an association for the general student, this is an organization for the studio Owner/Student/Instructor. ...The purpose of the UKKA is to better the student’s martial arts experience by providing qualified studio operators and management teams.

Hawkeye’s original interpretation of the UKKA was made without having any knowledge of the mission statement for the organization. He literally JUMPED THE GUN. Alex Andrews

Okay my original interpretation - "...I believe the UKKA (Universal Kenpo Karate Association). Forming for the benefit of artists and helping those without students or business to succeed in Kenpo business."

I'm sorry. I guess my mis-interpretation was that I thought it was also forming for the benefit of artists....


Other organizations such as the Tracy's, Karate America, ATA, Martial Arts Academies, Jhoon Rhee schools...and countless others claim to (and if the many hundreds of schools they charter is any indication) assist their school operators and associate schools. Again my original thesis was only whether we need another Kenpo association. So far most think we don't. Please read the original post. It was just a question. It wasn't directed towards anyone but it was apparantly taken personally.

Maybe UKKA can be changed to mean Unified Kenpo Karate Association. We could have a studio operator's division and a Kenpo student's division. That way we kill two birds with one monkey fist. Then we could have all of the Kenpo Godfathers get together for a meet. They could hash out territories ....uuh ooh, now I'm back where I started.

Steve "Hawkeye" Crain

[Brother John]

Then we could have all of the Kenpo Godfathers get together for a meet. They could hash out territories ....uuh ooh, now I'm back where I started.
Why would it be needed to have an org that has the "Godfathers" all get together and agree??
I think that the Kenpo World in general is better because people of the differences, because of the variety of off-shoots.

Just my thoughts...

Your Brother
John

[shane23ss]

Why would it be needed to have an org that has the "Godfathers" all get together and agree??
I think that the Kenpo World in general is better because people of the differences, because of the variety of off-shoots.

Just my thoughts...

Your Brother
JohnI agree with this. I also agree with Mark Weiser (sorry if I spelled your name wrong). I have no problem with another Kenpo Association forming. If you don't agree, then don't join. Heck, don't even read anything about it. It will not hurt you at all. I want to say that I have nothing but respect for Mr Acord, Mr Andrews and any one else at their studios. I haven't known Mr Acord or Mr Andrews that long, but in the short time I have known them, they have shown me they are willing to address any issues and/or questions some one may have on the subject of Kenpo. That's more than I can say for some I have met in the past.

I want to say to "AcordsKenpo" or "Alex Andrews", or whatever name some one wants to use on this board, I look forward to the UKKA getting up and running.

Oh, just so there is no question, I am the same "shane" from Mr Acord's forum.

Thanks.

[masherdong]

Hmmm...
I don't know about the rest of your 'beef' but I can tell you that I've gotten a TON of help from members in the AKKI!!! (My association, the only one I'm in any way qualified to talk about) They help with further instruction, a great willingness to help... costs are very very reasonable.
Patch? Sure. We get those, and really...they look cool. But that's the wall paper. The "Help" I get otherwise Blows me away!

Your Brother
John
Once I start my live instruction this summer, my instructor, Terry McCord wants me to join the AKKI. Good to hear that they will help me out! I also want to open up a Kenpo school here in Houston once I achieve the rank. I think that the UKKA would be a good thing to join to get the ins and outs of keeping a school open and being profitable. Everything nowadays is all about the money. Sucks for the students sometimes that an instructor just wants the money and could care less for the student. That is why I am glad to hear that Mr. Acord and his staff are starting this organization. I, like Hawkeye, Mark Weiser, and ShaneSS are students of Mr. Acord. I think this is a good thing and I dont believe that they would do this if they didnt care about the arts or the business.

[Rick]

I think that we all may be missing one of the points of associations. If you are the head of an association, you can promote yourself and your students to higher levels. This can cause the question, is an 8th in the IKKA as good as and 8th in the Wkka or OKKA or any other alphabet soup combo we can put together. In my area alone we have the IKKfederation, AKI and the NEKKA for three to begin with. (Although these three all have a good reputation). One of the benifits of an overarching association or senior council would be to reduce potential confusion.


Rick

[Seabrook]

I think that we all may be missing one of the points of associations. If you are the head of an association, you can promote yourself and your students to higher levels. This can cause the question, is an 8th in the IKKA as good as and 8th in the Wkka or OKKA or any other alphabet soup combo we can put together. In my area alone we have the IKKfederation, AKI and the NEKKA for three to begin with. (Although these three all have a good reputation). One of the benifits of an overarching association or senior council would be to reduce potential confusion.


Rick
Rank above 3rd Degree Black can get very political and there are often vast differences in skill levels and experience between associations of instructors with the same high rank.

Jamie Seabrook
www.seabrook.gotkenpo.com (http://www.seabrook.gotkenpo.com)

[Acordskenpo]

I think that we all may be missing one of the points of associations. If you are the head of an association, you can promote yourself and your students to higher levels.
Rick
The UKKA is not about rank, it is similar to a consultation firm, and the issue is about business practices and the ability to give owners/instructors the skills and abilities to operate successful studios.



The AKKI is an excellent organization, Mr. Mills embodies the mentality that was the IKKA, and has a dream that is similar to the beliefs most of us had as young belts. There is no right or wrong organization out there, they all have good and bad points, what does the "alphabet soup" of organizations out there matter, for each person, they will find the right fit, through discovery.




Alex Andrews

[Blindside]

The UKKA is not about rank, it is similar to a consultation firm, and the issue is about business practices and the ability to give owners/instructors the skills and abilities to operate successful studios.

So why the "kenpo" name then? Shouldn't your organization be over-arching between styles. I am hard pressed to see kenpo-specific strategies for success that couldn't be used in any other system. NAPMA has a long established history, what do you offer different besides having "kenpo" in the name?

Lamont

PS: This is somewhat academic to me, as I don't have any intention of running a commercial studio, but I am curious.

[Brother John]

I think that we all may be missing one of the points of associations. If you are the head of an association, you can promote yourself and your students to higher levels. This can cause the question, is an 8th in the IKKA as good as and 8th in the Wkka or OKKA or any other alphabet soup combo we can put together. In my area alone we have the IKKfederation, AKI and the NEKKA for three to begin with. (Although these three all have a good reputation). One of the benifits of an overarching association or senior council would be to reduce potential confusion.

Rick
I don't see this 'confusion' as being that confusing. Why do we need the comparison of skill/knowledge/ability...etc from one org to another? I don't need to compare to someone of a similar rank from a different association. What's important to me is to try the best I can to rise to the standards of the association that I'm in. Comparison with another org would be very ego-based I would think; no good use. I try to measure up to the aims of my instructors and I try to exceed (yeah, right) the standards set by the association I'm in.
I don't try to compete or compare with anyone except who I was yesterday.

Why do you think we need this comparison?

Your Brother
John

[Brother John]

Once I start my live instruction this summer, my instructor, Terry McCord wants me to join the AKKI. Good to hear that they will help me out!
Yes, if your experience is like mine (no reason why it shouldn't be) then I'm sure you'll feel very good about joining.

Curious: You said once you begin your "live" training with Mr. McCord.... what kind of training are you doing now??
Also: you list other arts in your retinue of arts here on MT, are you still practicing those or are they in your 'history'??

Are you aware that Mr. J. Connolly (Fastmover here on Martial Talk) teaches in the area you mentioned, is a 1st generation student of Mr. Mills and is the Regional Rep. for your area in the AKKI? I HIGHLY recomend you look him up and give him a call! Tell him your Brother John sent-ya. You can find his E-mail address by going to the AKKI website ( www.akki.com ) and looking up the regional rep map and clicking on Texas. He's really a class act!

Your Brother
John

[masherdong]

Yes, if your experience is like mine (no reason why it shouldn't be) then I'm sure you'll feel very good about joining.

Curious: You said once you begin your "live" training with Mr. McCord.... what kind of training are you doing now??
Also: you list other arts in your retinue of arts here on MT, are you still practicing those or are they in your 'history'??

Are you aware that Mr. J. Connolly (Fastmover here on Martial Talk) teaches in the area you mentioned, is a 1st generation student of Mr. Mills and is the Regional Rep. for your area in the AKKI? I HIGHLY recomend you look him up and give him a call! Tell him your Brother John sent-ya. You can find his E-mail address by going to the AKKI website ( www.akki.com (http://www.akki.com/) ) and looking up the regional rep map and clicking on Texas. He's really a class act!

Your Brother
John
I have a 2nd dan in Kajukenbo and have stopped practicing in 1992 when I won the U.S. Championships in Dallas. I am currently doing Home Study Programs that I am finding rewarding since I can learn at my own pace. I am learning Sifu Ibrao's Jun Bao Wu Shu and Michael Acord and GM Adrian Roman's American Kenpo. I did the home study programs because I could not find any Kenpo schools in the Yellow Pages, so I got the next best thing. When I joined this site, then I was able to do some networking and I found a few guys that teach it and in my area!

I will have to contact Mr. Connolly and see how he is. I already gave a verbal "yes" to Mr. McCord so I dont want to make myself a liar to him. Thanks for the info!

[Brother John]

I will have to contact Mr. Connolly and see how he is. I already gave a verbal "yes" to Mr. McCord so I dont want to make myself a liar to him. Thanks for the info!
Mr. McCord is a good fella too!
You got it covered if you check in w/both men.

Your Brother
John

[Hawkeye]

Okay. That's what the board's about. Discussion.


Hawk

[masherdong]

Yes it is and this is how we find instructors that are in our area.:)

[Hawkeye]

Why would it be needed to have an org that has the "Godfathers" all get together and agree??
I think that the Kenpo World in general is better because people of the differences, because of the variety of off-shoots.

Just my thoughts...

Your Brother
John
Brother,

More figurative than literal. More to the point, it would be nice for all of the Kenpo factions to be communicative and aware of each others strengths and possible positive input. I was competing last weekend and heard one guy ask another "what exactly is Kenpo?" Now I didn't hear the answer but there were many Kenpo schools in attendance and competing. So either he was just new to Karate championships or just never heard of Kenpo. Either way there isn't a single answer to Kenpo. And there doesn't need to be.

I have trouble getting information at times, for myself, about the similarities and differences between the various Kenpos because we aren't the best at networking.

Hawk