just wondering since I teach several women!

:asian:

I enjoy training with men.. It's good to have a male partner when doing a technique or sparring.. It allows for me to deal with a man's greater height and strength when practicing standing techniques.. For me to perform a throw of a female isn't the same as tossing a 220# 6'3" Man over my shoulder~! In our school there are no issues with punching (using control) each other(male or female).. we go by belt level normally, the higher the belt the more force used.. but it seems easier to punch or kick a man than a smaller female.

Tess

Hey there...

Ya I love training with the guys... there are not many girls at our school... and when they start they are a little shy.. so.. i like hanging with the boys.. they aren't afraid to train with me.. and if they ease up.. i give em heck.. besides.. its a great mental prep for the real outside conflicts really..

personally, I'd rather train with the guys... we get a lot of prissy girls in our studio, and being that the studio is in a beach city, that's probably kind of expected, and so many of em are afraid to hit something because they might break a nail! The women, at least the beginners, also seem to have a lot of trust issues when it comes to technique and sparring work. The first thing they say when paired up with someone is "don't hit me!"

if they're a white belt, I just laugh, because when i partner with white belts for techniques, I'll send a strike flying and pull it at the last second so all they feel is the lightest tap. I have a lot of control. Its something I've worked hard at, because when I was a white belt, I didn't like getting hit either, and was so traumatized in a sparring class as a purple belt that I didn't start fighting again until brown belt. The green belt that I got paired with beat the tar out of me and left bruises that literally took almost a month to heal. I sucked it up in class, but swore I was NEVER going back to sparring...I was fourteen at the time, and it took me seven years to get back to sparring, and that was one on one with an instructor I really trusted, who dragged me into a sparring class that I had just come by to watch, and had the patience to work with me and not pair me with anyone else until I was really ready. (thank you Mr. Newburg). Now I enjoy sparring, but there was a lot of psychological issues for me to work through that wouldn't have been there if it wasn't for that first, rotten experience. I don't want something like that to happen to someone else, and I sure as heck don't want to be responsible for it.

Now, as an advanced belt, I'd rather work with the guys if I have to work with a beginner, because I don't have to worry about someone whining because I tapped them a little too hard in sparring. (and I'm real careful to keep it very light contact only) I'd rather work with an advanced rank so I can work on what I need to work on. If you partner with any low rank, it always seems more like you end up giving them a mini lesson rather than getting to work on the stuff you need to also, because they're not advanced enough to be working at the same level you are.

DISCLAIMER: PLEASE NOTE THAT THESE ARE GENERALIZATIONS AND DO NOT APPLY TO ALL MALES OR ALL FEMALES.

Hmmmm.... I've never had the opportunity to train with any other women except my young daughter. All the other females where I used to train were the girlfriends of the guys on the floor, and most of them behaved as if they considered themselves far too delicate to get involved.

I think I'd enjoy training with other women once in a while, but since I have had very few negative experiences with training or working with men, I don't personally require a 'women only' atmosphere in any area of my life.

Unfortunately, most women I know seem to have had plenty of trouble dealing with men, and thus try to avoid male dominated activities because it just isn't any fun for them. Lots of the women on the 'Women-Only' MA forums to which I belong, are vehemently against training with men, for a host of personal and political reasons, sigh.....

I, on the other hand, loved to train with and hang with the guys, as I found them remarkably entertaining.

My 10 year old daughter, on the 'other' other hand, would dearly love to train with other girls because she says " Boys are idiots. They always act so stupid. They try to ruin everything." She detests always being the only girl in her divisions at Tournaments. She refuses to enter sparring anymore unless she can get in an all-girl division, although she's never ever had another girl to spar. She honestly believes it would be a different experience, and I don't know enough about it to agree or disagree with her. :confused:

with a dash of Tess to the sound of Nightengale, and Eraser cleaning up! :rofl:

:asian:

Okay, I'll have to agree, I prefer working with guys for the difference in intensity, and because they don't whimp out.

I have worked with some women that enjoy working hard and getting down and dirty like I did, but I would have to say the majority of them played the "little girl syndrom" :angel: and didn't put a lot of effort into the training. LOL sadly the girls didn't really like sparing with me because I could intimidate them, :EG: I only hit as hard as they did, but I would come in on them and they thought I was going to "Plow" them.

Guys have had a problem with being too soft on the females but they learned pretty quickly that I would hit like I was suppose to and eventually we would come to the understanding that I was hear to learn and work. They usually did enjoyed working out after that, because they knew I wasn't going to whine and complain if the did a wrist lock or gave me a good solid punch, etc....

dot
:asian:

the new nickname has begun...:(

ROFLMAO!! Dozer???? Oh Dot, I think you might resemble that remark!!! :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Sad but true. :rolleyes:

Duck my head and go straight in. I've no imagination when it comes to sparring.

But watch it!!! When I get in close enough, I can do some damage. ;)

dot
:asian:

Hey.... whew... am i ever glad im not the only girl that likes getting thrown around in class.. ok well not literally... I am in no way a prissy little girl.... if you are going to hit me.. HIT me.. and just suffer the concequences.. lol.....

As long as I can have my light sabre..... lol.. the best weapon ever imagined...


Till next time... Keep on hittin hard girls!!:cool:

the bewst weapon ever imagined was the bomb from plan 9 from outerspace that could "explode light"

That's nice, Sweeper dear, but what on earth does that have to do with whether or not women mind training with men, or with women's self defense for that matter? Or perhaps you are in here seeking 'conversion?' Or maybe you are just lost?? I certainly hope you 'find yourself' soon!!! Let us know if you need assistance locating the nearest exit. ;)

I know where I am, I was correcting Eraser's error :-p

Hey....


Since when did wanting a light sabre become an error???

And i personally don't think the destruction of light is all that cool... who would see my light sabre then..... :jedi1:

wanting it isn't an error, thinking it's the best weapon ever imagined is.

make mine an ICBM!

:asian:

Originally posted by Goldendragon7

make mine an ICBM!

:asian:
Personally, I'd rather have my own personal Death Star

I AGREE WITH TESS ON THIS ONE....I LIKE TO TRAIN WITH THE GUYS. SEIG ALSO INSTRUCTS CLASSES AT THE COLLEGE NEAR BY AND SOME OF THE GIRLS IN THERE ARE SO PRISSY IT'S NOT FUNNY. THEY ACTUALLY EXPECT NOT TO GET HIT...SO WHY ARE THEY IN A KARATE CLASS????? WHEN TESS SAYS THAT THEY GO BY BELT RANK IN CLASS SHE'S NOT KIDDING....I JUST GOT MY RECOMMENDED BROWN AND I CAN REALLY TELL HOW THINGS HAVE CHANGED IN SPARRING SINCE THEN. PLUS, TRAINING WITH THE GUYS GIVES ME MORE EXPERIENCE WITH SOMEONE WHO OVER POWERS ME IN STRENGTH AND HEIGHT. MOST GUYS THAT HAVE NEVER SPARRED ME THOUGH NORMALLY GO EASY AT FIRST UNTIL I CLOCK THEM GOOD AND THEN THEY REALIZE THEY NEED TO DEFEND THEMSELVES AND NOT WORRY ABOUT HURTING ME. BUT FOR THOSE IN THE DOJO, THEY SURELY DON'T LIGHTEN UP ON ME JUST BECAUSE I'M SHORTER THAN ALMOST EVERYONE OR BECAUSE I'M A GIRL...AND FOR THAT I THANK THEM.

OMG!!!! I haven't been in this section of the forum for a while. I have a lot catching up to do :D

Anyways, Tess, I'm with ya. I don't mind training with men. I'm prolly the only female (maybe not) that doesn't mind being thrown, punched, kicked, ect. I suprised the hell outta a coupla guys (young guys) in my school when I didn't back up during sparring. I just headed right for them LOL. I kinda suck at sparring, but 9 times outta 10, the guys in my school are very helpful (specially the older fellas).

sparring women you don't know is a pain (for guys) cause if they are the "prissy" type they don't wana get hit and leave if you wack em. And if they are the tougher type they hurt you if you don't :-p.

I have always prefered to train with men, mainly because once they realize that I don't want them to hold back I get more out of the training. Even when I was much younger fighting the guys gave me confidence that fighting the women wouldn't have.

Originally posted by FUZZYJ692000

I AGREE WITH TESS ON THIS ONE....I LIKE TO TRAIN WITH THE GUYS. SEIG ALSO INSTRUCTS CLASSES AT THE COLLEGE NEAR BY AND SOME OF THE GIRLS IN THERE ARE SO PRISSY IT'S NOT FUNNY. THEY ACTUALLY EXPECT NOT TO GET HIT...SO WHY ARE THEY IN A KARATE CLASS????? WHEN TESS SAYS THAT THEY GO BY BELT RANK IN CLASS SHE'S NOT KIDDING....I JUST GOT MY RECOMMENDED BROWN AND I CAN REALLY TELL HOW THINGS HAVE CHANGED IN SPARRING SINCE THEN. PLUS, TRAINING WITH THE GUYS GIVES ME MORE EXPERIENCE WITH SOMEONE WHO OVER POWERS ME IN STRENGTH AND HEIGHT. MOST GUYS THAT HAVE NEVER SPARRED ME THOUGH NORMALLY GO EASY AT FIRST UNTIL I CLOCK THEM GOOD AND THEN THEY REALIZE THEY NEED TO DEFEND THEMSELVES AND NOT WORRY ABOUT HURTING ME. BUT FOR THOSE IN THE DOJO, THEY SURELY DON'T LIGHTEN UP ON ME JUST BECAUSE I'M SHORTER THAN ALMOST EVERYONE OR BECAUSE I'M A GIRL...AND FOR THAT I THANK THEM.


Oh yeah.. when Fuzzy spars one of the big guys and they use their height to clock her in the headgear.. she goes OFF hahahaa.. It's 'On'~!! and She sure holds her own.. *g*..
now that Brown Belt Hell year has started.. ohh Jani~!! *wg*

on the matter of sparring women.. I am a strong muscular female and when I hit.. even with control.. my opponent feels it.. and sparring 'bird-boned' females (though there are a few males out there with no mass to their bodies too) I feel like I'm going to break something on them and that doesn't allow me to spar to my potential.. Having to pull kicks and punches etc..
I've been working with the girls in class lately on picking their targets.. utilizing their 'talents' ... if they are fighting a taller opponent.. to use footwork, body mechanics and getting out of the line of fire.. also with kickers.. and punchers.. most are still in the stage of straight line fighting and with anybody that's going to be their downfall unless they have the speed and good technique to get the power to get a decent 'hit'.
I'm digressing I guess.. ~!
Karatekid.. Hahaaa.. Good for you.. Why be in a contact sport if one isn't going to play the game with everyone~!!! ^5's~!!

Tess

Male or female, every one needs a good whacking from time to time. In all the years I have been doing Martial Arts, I have noticed a trend. regardless of how prissy they may be or pretend to be, whack 'em a few times in the headgear and it's on. This serves a few purposes. It teaches them not to be afraid of getting hit, but it also prompts them into wanting to save themselves the embarassment. It also clues them into the fact that hey, this is not dance class or fly fishing.

and guts take over where knowledge and skill end.

conditioning is how we are conditioned daily not just physical conditioning such as calisthenics.

If you train for real attacks you must be attacked as close as possible at times to understand the feel and be able to react accordingly...... it is a hard area to adjust to at times but to be good you need to train hard.

:asian:

...on which guys at my school I'm training against. Some of them are really quiet and hard to get into the "fun training" mode with, and others are more laid back. Not that we don't work hard at whatever we're doing, but it's easier to work with someone who's not all silent, uttering two whole words before we salute and move on. That's my take on it :)

Oos - :asian:
Quinn

Karatekid....

Dont worry.. your not alone.. I rather enjoy getting thrown around.. i guess that's direct from the fact that i was my AIkido master's fave person to pick on.. and use for demonstrations...
It didn't take long for my new Hapkido buddies to realize that I was little on the crazy side.. for wanting to get tossed around!!:shrug:

Originally posted by Goldendragon7
just wondering since I teach several women!

:asian:

Hi

Here in the UK women get highly irate if it is even suggested that they don't train with the men (not that it is ever suggested of course). Men are the most likely attackers in any situation (even when provoked by a woman)

I agree with all those here that prefer to work with men. I have come across some good females in class that aren't afraid to hit and work hard, but in general, most like to take things more lightly.

It's hard when I get paired with one of these in the latter category cuz though I know they need a partner too, I feel like I can't work the material at the level I would like.

The real issue I guess is that I have come up in schools with mostly men in them. When I started, I was one of the only two females in the studio.......so my training has been mostly with men over the years. It taught me to take a hit and work hard so now when I encounter those who aren't of the same "school of thought", it is tough.

:asian: :karate:

Originally posted by Nightingale
personally, I'd rather train with the guys... we get a lot of prissy girls in our studio

Same here. I like training with guys. The techniques have a sense of realism when I work out with the guys. The gals tend to almost barely touch when executing technique moves. Also, most of the gals dislike sparring. I, on the other hand, love to spar.
- Ceicei

When I'm actually up for sparring (which is rare...i'm not the sparring person, really), I like being able to go against the guys -- well, most of them. Some of them are a pain in the you know where...that place being my shins...

To me, training with guys lets the girls have a taste of what they might meet in the street. And it's fun! *doofy grin*

Those prissy me, myself, and I's really cheez me off! I mean, c'mon, a fingernail is a fingernail. Just get a pair of clippers, trim 'em, and wait about a month. (i might dramatize a nail breakage, but could care less)

I get very primal when sparring.. as all of my peers will attest to :D

I like working with a mixed class it´s more like real life. We do a lot of sparring. You just adjust to your partner. If I spar our teacher who is very young and very fit (he used to fight for the English Karate Freestyle team) I feel like I´ve run five miles after ten minutes, but I learn a lot at the same time. The students range from 6 to early fifties, both sexes, all shapes and sizes. I find a 6 feet 2 ex-soldier most difficult as he tends to kick a bit hard. At the other extreme I have to control myself a lot if I´m sparring a kid.

Hi, I'm new here.
I agree with Drunken mistress in that it is nice to fight in a mixed class. I am the only girl in my class(and all the men are bigger, older and stronger than I am) so whenver I get the chance to work with other women I thoroughly enjoy it. I do prefer to fight against men, simply because that's what I have the most experience with. Also, I'm rather tall so I tend to match up a little better with men as far as hight is concerned. I've never had a problem fighting prissy girls. Most of the women I fight are pretty tough.

Personally, I love training with guys. They can take it just as well as they can dish it out. Unfortunately, I know a lot of women out there who love to dish it out, but don't want to take it. (The hits that is)

But as you can very well tell, I have obsolutely no problem training with guys. I find it to be even more fun at times.

I know it's prolly not reallly my opinion that matters in this fora, but i thought this is something that might go in this thread. When i first started in kickboxing there was about a 40% female class. About half of the women were extremely hard and the other half was a little on the priss side. My instructor used ask me to spar with them more than anyone else and I couldn't figure why. Later he basically told me that I was the only one that made them bleed. While that doesn't sound very nice, what he meant was that I was the only one not afraid to hit them past the priss level. I later told him it was because I'd seen women do some viscious stuff and I had lost that every woman is an angel outlook, a long time ago. Please don't take that as every woman is vicious (because I have yet to confirm that theory), I'm really not a mysogenist.

I know it's prolly not reallly my opinion that matters in this fora, but i thought this is something that might go in this thread. When i first started in kickboxing there was about a 40% female class. About half of the women were extremely hard and the other half was a little on the priss side. My instructor used ask me to spar with them more than anyone else and I couldn't figure why. Later he basically told me that I was the only one that made them bleed. While that doesn't sound very nice, what he meant was that I was the only one not afraid to hit them past the priss level. I later told him it was because I'd seen women do some viscious stuff and I had lost that every woman is an angel outlook, a long time ago. Please don't take that as every woman is vicious (because I have yet to confirm that theory), I'm really not a mysogenist.
So you respect the possibility of damage from all women then? This is how I read your statement.

So you respect the possibility of damage from all women then? This is how I read your statement.

Absolutely! I remember a 70% spar match one summer with a woman that I respect as a person and a fighter. I caught her with a tough hook in the jaw that pretty much knocked her loopy. She didn't miss a beat and gave me an uppercut that almost broke my nose and took a good 5 min. to stop the bleeding. That kind of experience and the possession of testicles has made me quite aware of the possibility of damage from all women. :btg:

How about the new members.. Do you mind? :)

Actually, I prefer training with men. For self defense purposes, I am not likely going to be using it against another woman, so I would rather train with a man. Then, if I do find myself having to defend against a woman, I will be that much more prepared.

I have never had a problem training with a female..I have even offered to train with a females at various seminars and some of the police sessions I've attended, especially if they are stuck with a female training partner that is half their size and weight..
As I explained to a mildly shocked Grandmaster at one training sessions who saw me practicing ground fighting excapes with a female partner "She's not going to be tusseling with some little girl on the streets." The women I've trained with seemed to welcome the oppertunity to try their skills on a taller, heavier ( no jokes please) bad guy..My 2 cents worth..

I like to train with guys, if I didn't, I'd hardly be able to train and at since I am often the only woman in my class. It's true that some women are too tentative, however, some men are also that way. It usually wears off after a few months but for some reason, most women who try our class do not return. I don't know why exactly. It is fairly tough training with a lot of takedowns on the hard floor and everyone feels sore at first. But if you seek martial arts training, you should want a challenge, right? I think the main objection to training with women is just that they aren't serious enough about the training to be willing to take a few hard knocks to learn how to fight. If the women were as tough as the men, I don't think anyone would mind training with them, but as far as I can tell from the posts above, a lot of female students are kind of prissy and delicate and not much fun to train with.
However, the women I've trained with who are skilled are really fun to work with, they have a certain kind of cleverness that stronger male partners seem to lack...I think it's the wiliness that comes from being smaller and weaker than most everyone else. A lot of people have posted that they prefer to work with men because a typical attacker is probably going to be male. That may be true, but practicing with a skilled woman who is sneaky and resourceful is good practice for defense a crafty attacker who uses more than brute strength.
Wish there more women practicing my style!
Best,
Rachel

How about the new members.. Do you mind? :)
Nope, not at all - as long as they are mature about it.

I find that since I train almost exclusively with men in grappling when I do fight women in competition it is easier. Dealing with men's upper body strength, size, and weight have all made me much stronger and better at escaping. I appreciate this the rare times I get to fight ladies my own size.

In stand up I also don't mind training with the guys. Makes no difference really.

Nope, not at all - as long as they are mature about it.

I find that since I train almost exclusively with men in grappling when I do fight women in competition it is easier. Dealing with men's upper body strength, size, and weight have all made me much stronger and better at escaping. I appreciate this the rare times I get to fight ladies my own size.

In stand up I also don't mind training with the guys. Makes no difference really.

Do you think you are stronger physically or in the execution of your techniques? Or a little of both?

Do you think you are stronger physically or in the execution of your techniques? Or a little of both?

Both. I have become physically stronger (my sisters both love to tease me on my "man shoulders") as well as my technique has to be strong. I don't care how physically strong I get, most men will always be stronger. Therefore, I need to be technically superior in order to stay competitive and be able to impose my game over theirs.

Having a size disadvantage has actually made me a far better grappler. Being a big fish in a little pond doesn't always mean you are technically the best. But being the little fish means you have to really work hard to hang with the sharks.

I have always trained with men. There is a good woman fighter in my class now but in this and other classes I have been the lone woman for many months. I find training on equal terms has made me much stronger. I am a big woman anyway 5 feet nine with big feet so my size and weight is like a bloke´s. The other woman in the class is tiny but makes up for it with speed.

Well I always try to make women feel more comfortable with me....in my Judo class there are no women (not a rule of the dojo, just a fact)! So I wash my Gi twice a year..it stinks ti high heaven and makes the men I am with very uncomfortable trying to grab me....an old trick i was taught bu my master!

However I go to HKD..or to Goju we have lots of women..so I take a shower..Iron my Gi/Dobok...put on my deoderant and aftershave (POLO of course)! That is just because women appreciate this knd of thing!

Secondly as a rule I go by rank and weight.....a white belt 180 pounds will get the same hiding...I mean...errrr....intensity whether they are male or female!

I never have... and realistically, which one is more likely to attack me - a man or a woman? Also, if I can defend myself against a 6'3", 250 pound man (although I know a woman who is 6'3" and 230 - but that's rare) then I should be able to defend myself against a smaller person, gender irrespective. People have different capabilities based on size, strength, flexibility, experience, and yes, gender - but gender is only one aspect of difference. A wide range of partners and experiences are necessary to truly be able to apply the skills one learns in any martial arts class.

Both. I have become physically stronger (my sisters both love to tease me on my "man shoulders") as well as my technique has to be strong. I don't care how physically strong I get, most men will always be stronger. Therefore, I need to be technically superior in order to stay competitive and be able to impose my game over theirs.

Having a size disadvantage has actually made me a far better grappler. Being a big fish in a little pond doesn't always mean you are technically the best. But being the little fish means you have to really work hard to hang with the sharks.

I could see that it could be both. Yet my expectation is that it is the better or stronger execution of the technique that is the reason you do better, more so than any additional body strength. Of course this is generalized, and speaking from my experience not yours.

Thank you for the reply.

I never have... and realistically, which one is more likely to attack me - a man or a woman? Also, if I can defend myself against a 6'3", 250 pound man (although I know a woman who is 6'3" and 230 - but that's rare) then I should be able to defend myself against a smaller person, gender irrespective. People have different capabilities based on size, strength, flexibility, experience, and yes, gender - but gender is only one aspect of difference. A wide range of partners and experiences are necessary to truly be able to apply the skills one learns in any martial arts class.

A woman who is 6'3" and 230 lbs. Is she single and cute? Oh sorry. That was uncalled for.

I agree that is you practice against someone larger, when you have to perform for real either in a competition or in real life than one is usually able to execute just like they practiced.

I could see that it could be both. Yet my expectation is that it is the better or stronger execution of the technique that is the reason you do better, more so than any additional body strength. Of course this is generalized, and speaking from my experience not yours.

Thank you for the reply.

You are probably right about the technique being the deciding factor, but the additional body strength helps me from initially getting squished and pinned by larger opponents, which in turn enables me to find the space and opportunity to apply technique.

The two work nicely together!:ultracool

When I first started MA, I would partner myself up with women only. I was a chicken to partner with a man. Of course I was really out of shape and looked at my MA experience as more of an exercise class then anything else. When it came to switching around partners and sparring with the men, I was intimidated. By only partnering with women I did myself such a disservice. I didn't break out of my mold, sorta speak.

Well, things changed and my focus on MA changed and it came down to not having a choice but to spar with the guys. My outlook changed, my attitude changed and my skill changed. Guys make us women work harder, get our skills sharper and overall are the best experience that a girl can get when it comes to sparring.

... Guys make us women work harder, get our skills sharper and overall are the best experience that a girl can get when it comes to sparring.

I don't know if I totally agree with you. Just because they are guys doesn't make them the "best experience" that a girl can get. In fact, I think you would find many women who say many times men are either condescending or the other extreme, and totally crush them and they have been the authours of the worst experiences they have had sparring.

Good male partners, as any good partner will be the "best experience" a martial artist can get. Training with anyone better than yourself who pushes you is the best experience in MA, be it male or female. I have trained with an excellent BJJ female purple belt and I wouldn't trade it for rolling with a male partner. She was just as capable at making me "work harder, get my skills sharper". Had nothing to do with male or female.

I like training with guys because they do make me stronger, force me physically to work harder and make sure my technique is good. I like training with women because they force me to be faster, have better endurance and make sure my technique is good.

A good training partner is a good training partner.

Very nicely stated, Eternal Beginner. I agree with you 100%.
Regards,
Rachel

Very nicely stated, Eternal Beginner. I agree with you 100%.
Regards,
Rachel

Thank you!:)

I've just trained with too many great martial artists, male and female, to categorically say training with either is better. It is down to an individual, not their distribution of X and Y chromosones.

Back to the gender thing ...

I was pregnant and we had a new guy come in who took some kind of affinity towards challenging me. I have no idea why, but he kept wanting to spar with me ... he wouldn't stay with defense drills, his kicks always got harder each time and it was almost like he singled me out to throttle. :idunno:

There have also been times where the guys just didn't want to work with me, they wanted to work with each other and i think this is where it can be (CAN be) tough to be an older woman in a class full of young men.

Anyone else have these experiences?

My experience has been a little different. I've found that when I'm paired up with some of the yonger men or teen boys (esp the brown and black belts) that they beat me up pretty good...often a bit harder than I'm prepared to take. By comparison, the bb men that are closer to my age have been more open to coaching me in to hitting and blocking better.

There have been some young men that have seemed to be a little reluctant to be paired with me. I'm not sure if that was because they didn't want to be paired with a beginner woman on the back half of 30, or if it was simply teen apathy. They weren't bad to train with...just indifferent.

"There have also been times where the guys just didn't want to work with me, they wanted to work with each other and i think this is where it can be (CAN be) tough to be an older woman in a class full of young men"


I can totally relate to this.It is the younger males that I have the most problem with, you get the impression that they are insulted at being paired with an older female, and as a result try to be overy "Smart" usually, stuffing up the technique that they are supposed to be practicing. I really enjoy being paired with any partner, male or female ,that is there to learn and practise seriously.

I think it's because they know they can't hit on us - and probably don't want to, either.

I don't mind training with men and don't mind sparring with men either. What I mind is when the instructor changes the workout to fit say the one guy in the class who likes to box, every time he shows up. Or that the class is keyed down because one man who is a relative smokes alot and can't handle cardio or even hard workout. Or that he puts the rest of the class on remote control and we are forced to do the same thing over and over while he is working on the form with one guy because he has to leave early each session. I mind when this happens consistently and I'm not the only one who notices. I can't jump and he knows it, but we do a jumping workout each time. Another woman has a bad ankle right now so she comes, we jump, and I don't see her for another week. My only alternative is to do my own workout because I know better than jump. TW

I think it's because they know they can't hit on us - and probably don't want to, either.

I think it has more to do with not wanting to be shown up. Not hard to ding a teen's pride since they're so self-conscious about looking the part of a MAist etc. I tend to find teenage males usually will go harder with less thought about the consequences of a given action than most of the other folks on the training floor.

I love those people...the image MAists....I am known as a hard training partner...I push everyone to his/her limits while at the same time understanding what each persons limit is...that is the level of intensity I use depends on the persons age, rank, physical ability etc...everything but sex!

People hate to partner with me, because I will push them and by the same token they will be forced to push back...just a few days ago I had a partner just sit down on the mat and refuse to partner with me....this person is one of those that go about beating on the weaker people in the Dojo and refuses to go hard with the people he knows can beat him...he brings his girlfriend to the dojo all the time, I love to take him down from time to time...thats why I earned the name savage!

My only alternative is to do my own workout because I know better than jump. TW
(off-topic) Good grief, TigerWoman, you sound pretty miserable and if this is the person you're training with all the time, what's keeping you there? I understand style/dojo loyalty but if you're concerned that you're hurting yourself, or if you don't think you're getting any better, then you're doing yourself a disservice by training with this person (who could be of either gender) who doesn't seem to be improving your skills much. Have you thought about finding another dojo?

(back on topic) I don't have any trouble training with the men in my dojo. I sometimes punch in when our Sensei is demonstrating techniques and I think that everyone sees that I can handle getting thrown, so they don't feel awkward doing it to me to practice. (I'm not sure if this is his conscious goal for having me punch in or if I'm just a good throwing dummy :D). And, I try to throw solid techniques at my training partners, so that I can get good effort from them in return, so that I can improve myself. I do think that I train with some really quality people and I think that makes a lot of difference.

Has anyone ever confronted someone (male or female) that they had particular difficulty training with? How did you do it, how did it work out?

That instructor doesn't sound so great, TigerWoman. No class should be toned down because one guy smokes. That's like toning it down because one student is injured. I mean, we do like 30 pushups plus a slow-count one in every class and I can't do all those, I do the girly ones on my knees but my instructor would never dream of toning it down and letting us do only five, no matter how fond of me he is, the class does not revolve around any one person. Sometimes we'll do an exercise that no one but my instructor can do and yet we'll still take a shot at it.
If I can't do something, I just try my best but my instructor isn't a drill sergeant, as long as you are trying he doesn't come over and bark at anyone to do stuff they physically can't do. And if someone is afraid to do something, they don't have to. I think the class should be tailored to suit everyone so that a small number of people will find the exercises a cinch, a small number will find them pretty difficult, and the majority will be able to do them even if it's a bit of a struggle sometimes.
Has anyone ever confronted someone (male or female) that they had particular difficulty training with? How did you do it, how did it work out?
Yes, and I just try as hard as I can to get along with them. In our class, we change partners every few minutes so I just tell myself it's only temporary, I won't have to work with them forever and try to avoid them whenever possible. There was one guy in particular who kicked me in the head when I was down on the floor being kicked by the entire class (an exercise in avoidance, it sounds kind of crazy but you are supposed to kick slowly and it goes without saying that it's uncalled for to kick someone in the head when they are on the ground and totally outnumbered). I ended up with a concussion and felt really disoriented for a few weeks, couldn't finish the classes and had to spend my lunch hour sleeping, it really knocked me for a loop. I didn't want to work with him after that (even before that, we were having trouble getting along), but I had to anyway, our class isn't big enough to always avoid the people I would rather not work with. I actually didn't dislike the guy, outside of training, he was perfectly nice, but he was way too brutal and very rigid. I gave him a bloody lip once accidentally, I did not realize he was going to be so rigid and not yield to the strike, and I think that contributed to us not getting along. But in the end, it didn't really matter because he dropped out, as I kind of figured he would, or maybe he's training at our satellite location, I don't really know.
But he's not the first guy I've had trouble getting along with. Mainly the guys who want to boss my around continously to the point where they don't shut up are the ones with whom I don't get along so well. I've handled that by stopping the drill and asking them if they want to talk or practice because I won't do both at the same time (of course, I am really thinking, Why don't you shut up and quit bossing me around, but I try to phrase it more diplomatically.) That is probably the main source of conflict between me and the few guys I've had trouble with. They just won't quit bossing me around and it's hard not to get irritated when someone who is so unskilled, who should really be minding their own training, insists on bossing their partner around non-stop.
But it's gotten a lot easier the longer I train and there really isn't anyone I won't work with, although some people I like better than others as training partners. There was one guy who my teacher actually didn't want me to work with, he was a bossy jerk and really terrible, I mean, he spent about a year attending class sporadically, coming late (so he didn't have to do all the conditioning exercises), and leaving early, and then had the nerve to boss me around endlessly even though I had been training much longer and was obviously a more dedicated student. My teacher told me that some people just don't want to learn and had almost written him off as a lost cause. Not suprisingly, he trash-talked the school, the class, and the teacher right in front of our reception desk and wound up getting kicked out (our new waivers actually have a clause about disrespectful students getting kicked out).
So, the two guys with whom I've had the most trouble, one dropped out, the other got kicked out, and in my experience, the guys who are real trouble for their partners don't last long anyway.
Best,
Rachel

I don't mind at all unless they are wearing sweat pants or speedo shorts.

It makes me uncomfortable. :(

One thing I really don't like about some members of the younger crowd: The young guys like to wear their gi pants really low - like they wear their casual pants in public. And I gotta say ... I understand and can deal with gi pants coming off on accident during grappling. But when they wear them half-off to begin with ... well, I'm sick and tired of seeing BVDs everywhere I look, and when I gotta look at them in the dojang, it's akin to me showing cleavage over my shirt and nowhere near HALF as entertaining.

Fellas, wear your gi pants properly, please.

It really doesn't bother me to train with guys, especially women in my class is in the "minority" (numbers). I have to deal- if I didn't like it, I'd have to quit, and that I don't want to do any time soon!