Black belt qualities

[brianhunter]

The other day I was at my local activity center when I noticed the TKD class was in "action" and I noticed out of the 30 some people training that night 12 where black belts! Thats nearly half the class....and out of those only 3 where adults!! (18^) I watched these people for awhile and one of these "black belts" didnt even want to do pushups so he cries and screams on the mat!!!!!
I guess what this comes too is I am glad kenpo hasnt went the commercial way and ethics and qualities are instilled in our black belts.....

Out of the qualities that many believe a black belt should possess which do you guys feel is the most important???? Myself...i think it should be fairness.....fairness and remembering that at one point and time they where the newbie on the mat.

Thanks
Hunter

[jfarnsworth]

I think Respect and knowledge are the most important parts. Knowledge comes in when dealing with the students and general public. You have to be like a salesman of sorts, for the art and for your studio. Knowledge to teach and understand what you are teaching. I teach private lessons for my instructor every tuesday night. Every student that I have given a private lesson to I tell them to have their parent stay and watch. The reason for that is feedback. If a parent doesn't like the way I teach or doesn't think I'm doing a good enough job they should tell my instructor immediately.
Respect means a way of life for me. Respect in yourself, family, friends, people, and life in general. I'm going to leave this as just this. I really don't want to get into more view points of my life here.
Salute,
Jason Farnsworth

[Rainman]

Originally posted by jfarnsworth

I think Respect and knowledge are the most important parts. Knowledge comes in when dealing with the students and general public. You have to be like a salesman of sorts, for the art and for your studio. Knowledge to teach and understand what you are teaching. I teach private lessons for my instructor every tuesday night. Every student that I have given a private lesson to I tell them to have their parent stay and watch. The reason for that is feedback. If a parent doesn't like the way I teach or doesn't think I'm doing a good enough job they should tell my instructor immediately.
Respect means a way of life for me. Respect in yourself, family, friends, people, and life in general. I'm going to leave this as just this. I really don't want to get into more view points of my life here.
Salute,
Jason Farnsworth

Yeah what he said- plus you must be able to fight and be mentally and physically tough with more emphasis on the mental part.



:asian:

[RCastillo]

Originally posted by Rainman



Yeah what he said- plus you must be able to fight and be mentally and physically tough with more emphasis on the mental part.



:asian:

Yes, I 'll go along with what Mr. Rainman, and Mr. Fransworth brought out. Let me add, HEART! If one has that, then be sure to NEVER discount that person.:asian:

[tonbo]

I think there are a couple which should be viewed as "most important":

Discipline: You have to be able to show mental and physical discipline. You may not always *want* to do certain things (pushups, katas, etc.), but since they are part of the training, you should do them without complaint.

Respect: A martial arts student needs to recognize those around him/her and treat them fairly. You should have respect for the instructors and upper belts, as well as all other students generally.

Fairness: A sense of fair play is pretty mandatory. If you are willing to cheat your way to the top or step on others to get where you want to be in training, you have no place in a good school. You should be willing to get as you give.

Honor: Personal honor is a must-have. If you can't be honorable and take accountability for your own actions, you haven't arrived yet.

These are a couple that I think are important. Of course, you also have things like compassion, modesty, courtesy, perserverence, etc., etc. that should be part of a martial artist's being.....but I won't go into those right now.....I've rambled enough already. However, I think there is a pretty extensive list that makes up a martial artist's toolbox....

Peace--

[Klondike93]

Originally posted by tonbo

I think there are a couple which should be viewed as "most important":

Discipline: You have to be able to show mental and physical discipline. You may not always *want* to do certain things (pushups, katas, etc.), but since they are part of the training, you should do them without complaint.

Respect: A martial arts student needs to recognize those around him/her and treat them fairly. You should have respect for the instructors and upper belts, as well as all other students generally.

Fairness: A sense of fair play is pretty mandatory. If you are willing to cheat your way to the top or step on others to get where you want to be in training, you have no place in a good school. You should be willing to get as you give.

Honor: Personal honor is a must-have. If you can't be honorable and take accountability for your own actions, you haven't arrived yet.

These are a couple that I think are important. Of course, you also have things like compassion, modesty, courtesy, perserverence, etc., etc. that should be part of a martial artist's being.....but I won't go into those right now.....I've rambled enough already. However, I think there is a pretty extensive list that makes up a martial artist's toolbox....

Peace--

Too bad you can't get this message out to others, I sure don't see very much of any of these in todays black belts :(


:asian:

[RCastillo]

Originally posted by Klondike93



Too bad you can't get this message out to others, I sure don't see very much of any of these in todays black belts :(


:asian:

I'm hurt.I thought since you, and I were ITF, that we had something in common. Now I see that you, Seig, and Goldendragon are against me.:wah:

[jfarnsworth]

It seems your getting a following against you. Or maybe not I don't know. I am a former ITF person as well. That's why I made the switch. Are you still practicing Chong-Ji on up? Just curious.
Salute,
Jason Farnsworth

[RCastillo]

Originally posted by jfarnsworth

It seems your getting a following against you. Or maybe not I don't know. I am a former ITF person as well. That's why I made the switch. Are you still practicing Chong-Ji on up? Just curious.
Salute,
Jason Farnsworth

Really? I am honored to be among another TKDist!
I am semi-active in the ITF, and still do the forms. I feel they had alot to do with my growth within Kenpo.:asian:

[jfarnsworth]

I practice them on select occasions. This is when I need a little change of pace. Although I try to put as much emphasis on learning kenpo, refining etc.
Jason Farnsworth

[Klondike93]

Did you get a black belt in the ITF Jason? (insert remark here if you wish)

Seems to be a theme of TKD people going over to kenpo, why is that? For me it looked cool and I wanted to learn to use my hands like that.

I still teach some of the Chon-Ji forms, but I spend most of my time trying to learn the kenpo forms. It gets kind of hard when you haven't done one in a while and some one has a question about how to do Do-San or Jung-Gun, you tend to get that deer in the headlights look. :rofl:


I am semi-active in the ITF, and still do the forms.

In what way?

:asian:

[RCastillo]

Originally posted by Klondike93

Did you get a black belt in the ITF Jason? (insert remark here if you wish)

Seems to be a theme of TKD people going over to kenpo, why is that? For me it looked cool and I wanted to learn to use my hands like that.

I still teach some of the Chon-Ji forms, but I spend most of my time trying to learn the kenpo forms. It gets kind of hard when you haven't done one in a while and some one has a question about how to do Do-San or Jung-Gun, you tend to get that deer in the headlights look. :rofl:



In what way?



:asian:

Been getting back into it slowly, helping at a tourney, talking with Mr. Nunez,and working to see about getting involved in his new organization. He has a big forms seminar in July, and I may go to it. Kenpo, however is the MAIN priority. I just hate to throw away all those years of work, and I do enjoy doing the forms!I'm thinking of going independent so that I can get away from all the politics.:asian:

[Klondike93]

I remeber Mr. Nunez from some black belt nights at Sereffs TKD.

I never got to work with him but I did get to watch him dismantle some of Sereff's black belts :)


:asian:

[jfarnsworth]

My first martial arts insturctor taught TKD and Aikido. He was an independent instructor with no affiliations to any organization. We did the ITF forms in our class. When I referred back to Mr. Castillo as being an ITF person I was mainly commenting on the forms not the organization per say. I'm sorry if I mislead anyone here. At one point in time I had the first 11 forms. I broke away from my instructor wanting to learn more and my job moved me farther south in ohio anyway. That's when I was forced to make my decision to change. Anyway pick up Hee Il Cho's books on the forms, there is a 3 volume set in which still sits on my bookshelf. Obviously I need to look at them from time to time to brush up but as I stated only practice those forms on occassion.
Respectfully,
Jason Farnsworth

[RCastillo]

Originally posted by jfarnsworth

My first martial arts insturctor taught TKD and Aikido. He was an independent instructor with no affiliations to any organization. We did the ITF forms in our class. When I referred back to Mr. Castillo as being an ITF person I was mainly commenting on the forms not the organization per say. I'm sorry if I mislead anyone here. At one point in time I had the first 11 forms. I broke away from my instructor wanting to learn more and my job moved me farther south in ohio anyway. That's when I was forced to make my decision to change. Anyway pick up Hee Il Cho's books on the forms, there is a 3 volume set in which still sits on my bookshelf. Obviously I need to look at them from time to time to brush up but as I stated only practice those forms on occassion.
Respectfully,
Jason Farnsworth


That's ok. Anyone who does the Chang Hon school of forms, I conisder ITF. You're ok in my book!:asian:

[Zoran]

Originally posted by RCastillo


That's ok. Anyone who does the Chang Hon school of forms, I conisder ITF. You're ok in my book!:asian:

Help!! I think I got lost?? Can someone point me the way to the Kenpo Forum? :confused:

:D ;) :D

[Goldendragon7]

I was hoping you would help me with short 1 chiang fa. This form always throws me off and I know you win with it always..... and then could you take me on the pinon 9 & 10 so that my tkd abc icu tbl testing will go smooth and slick so I can get my silk belt........

really Sheesh......... getting binoculars to search for KenPO

:shrug:

[RCastillo]

Originally posted by Goldendragon7

I was hoping you would help me with short 1 chiang fa. This form always throws me off and I know you win with it always..... and then could you take me on the pinon 9 & 10 so that my tkd abc icu tbl testing will go smooth and slick so I can get my silk belt........

really Sheesh......... getting binoculars to search for KenPO

:shrug:

Searching, eh?

Get off the service road SINCE YOU WERE RUBBER NECKING, AND NOT PAYING ATTENTION TO THE SIGNS, and get back on the INTERSTATE, you TOURISTS!

(That's how accidents happen)

Wait, I see the signs!?!

Zoran, shame on you!

Mr. Conatser, you drank sour milk!
:confused::rofl:

All in fun!

[Yari]

Originally posted by tonbo

I think there are a couple which should be viewed as "most important":

Discipline: You have to be able to show mental and physical discipline. You may not always *want* to do certain things (pushups, katas, etc.), but since they are part of the training, you should do them without complaint.

Respect: A martial arts student needs to recognize those around him/her and treat them fairly. You should have respect for the instructors and upper belts, as well as all other students generally.

Fairness: A sense of fair play is pretty mandatory. If you are willing to cheat your way to the top or step on others to get where you want to be in training, you have no place in a good school. You should be willing to get as you give.

Honor: Personal honor is a must-have. If you can't be honorable and take accountability for your own actions, you haven't arrived yet.

These are a couple that I think are important. Of course, you also have things like compassion, modesty, courtesy, perserverence, etc., etc. that should be part of a martial artist's being.....but I won't go into those right now.....I've rambled enough already. However, I think there is a pretty extensive list that makes up a martial artist's toolbox....

Peace--


I just want to start off saying that I agree. But for the fun of discussion I'd like to ask a few questions about this. Befor I do that I just want to emphesize that I'm not trying to disrespect anybody.


What really is respect? How do you show respect? Would it be to shut up, or to show your meaning. Would it be that you agree only because the other is a senior? How do you show respect when the other person has a different set of rules for respect?

What is fairness? Doesn't it depend on what "rules" the person lives by, and if the rules are the same as yours?

And last:

By honor do you mean integrity(sp?). I think honor is something you get, but integrity si something you are (ie. walk the talk).

Just trying to start a discussion here to get people thinking.


/Yari

[jfarnsworth]

Back to kenpo guys.
Jason Farnsworth

[RCastillo]

Originally posted by Yari




I just want to start off saying that I agree. But for the fun of discussion I'd like to ask a few questions about this. Befor I do that I just want to emphesize that I'm not trying to disrespect anybody.


What really is respect? How do you show respect? Would it be to shut up, or to show your meaning. Would it be that you agree only because the other is a senior? How do you show respect when the other person has a different set of rules for respect?

What is fairness? Doesn't it depend on what "rules" the person lives by, and if the rules are the same as yours?

And last:

By honor do you mean integrity(sp?). I think honor is something you get, but integrity si something you are (ie. walk the talk).

Just trying to start a discussion here to get people thinking.


/Yari

I would say, staying silent, and speaking when you deem it neccesary. Listen ,and learning can stave off problems.

Being fair? Just making sure no one is wronged, and being higher ranked should not figure in. Do the right thing.

Integrety, Just being honest with yourself, and to others. If not, it may come back to haunt you later.

The moral of the story here, as taught to me by another Instructor, "Think, before you act!":asian:

[Seig]

Originally posted by RCastillo



I'm hurt.I thought since you, and I were ITF, that we had something in common. Now I see that you, Seig, and Goldendragon are against me.:wah: Against you? Come on up when Mr.C does, we'll do Vitamin D shooters!

[RCastillo]

Originally posted by Seig

Against you? Come on up when Mr.C does, we'll do Vitamin D shooters!

Ok, it's gotta be ICE COLD, and choclate!:)

P.S. Don't forget the donuts!

[Seig]

Done!

[tonbo]

By "Respect", I mean to listen to answers when you ask questions, and not challenge the answers you get. If you are right and someone else is wrong, it will come out. It means to give some weight to the learning and experience of others, and to value what they have; to treat everyone as worthy of being treated well and fairly. It means holding people to a decent standard, and giving them the benefit of not having to justify their existence. In dealing with people with other beliefs or belief systems, it means listening to what they have to say and not judging them out of hand; to follow their customs or ways if it is not harmful to you or contradicts your beliefs (when you are in a situation where you need to follow other customs--in another dojo, etc.).

By "Honor", I basically meant holding a belief system where integrity is a BIG part of what you do. Yeah, I guess you could equate the two, but I would extend the definition to say that "honor" seems a bit more metaphysical or lofty. To me, having honor means not only being honest, but holding yourself to a high standard, morally. To have a personal code of "good" conduct, and to stick to it. Essentially, yes, it is the same as integrity to me, but I would say that "honor" is something a lot more people can understand, rather than integrity. Maybe it's me...;)

Anyway, we are dealing with fairly ephemeral terms.....and definitions will be quite personal, in most cases. These are just a couple of mine.......

Peace--

[Turner]

Discipline: You have to be able to show mental and physical discipline. You may not always *want* to do certain things (pushups, katas, etc.), but since they are part of the training, you should do them without complaint.


Respect: A martial arts student needs to recognize those around him/her and treat them fairly. You should have respect for the instructors and upper belts, as well as all other students generally.


Respect", I mean to listen to answers when you ask questions, and not challenge the answers you get. If you are right and someone else is wrong, it will come out. It means to give some weight to the learning and experience of others, and to value what they have; to treat everyone as worthy of being treated well and fairly. It means holding people to a decent standard, and giving them the benefit of not having to justify their existence. In dealing with people with other beliefs or belief systems, it means listening to what they have to say and not judging them out of hand; to follow their customs or ways if it is not harmful to you or contradicts your beliefs (when you are in a situation where you need to follow other customs--in another dojo, etc.).


Fairness: A sense of fair play is pretty mandatory. If you are willing to cheat your way to the top or step on others to get where you want to be in training, you have no place in a good school. You should be willing to get as you give.


Honor: Personal honor is a must-have. If you can't be honorable and take accountability for your own actions, you haven't arrived yet.


"Honor", I basically meant holding a belief system where integrity is a BIG part of what you do. Yeah, I guess you could equate the two, but I would extend the definition to say that "honor" seems a bit more metaphysical or lofty. To me, having honor means not only being honest, but holding yourself to a high standard, morally. To have a personal code of "good" conduct, and to stick to it. Essentially, yes, it is the same as integrity to me, but I would say that "honor" is something a lot more people can understand, rather than integrity

This is good stuff and definately are a part of a Black Belts qualities, but all to often we are told that a Black Belt lives this way and just leave it at that. Many students of Kenpo are such because they want to be the 'watchmakers' instead of 'ironworkers' and so a simply "Live this way" doesn't work. Why are these qualities necessary for a Black Belt? Why should we respect people? Why should we have discipline? Why should we believe in fairness? Why should we have integrity?

Many people will say 'because, if you don't you will regret it' and don't give any reasoning behind why a person should have virtue. There are many people that have an area of their life where they are devoid of the right virtues and they live their entire life without feeling guilty. So that doesn't work with me. For those of you that believe in a god that directs you to an after-life based on this life and the regret will occur there, that doesn't fly either. Why? Your god isn't looking to create rules for you to live by in order for you to have a greater chance of screwing up and getting the bum deal when you die. She/he/it has a reason for requiring those virtues. So why is it important for Mr. Average Joe Blo have character? Why is it even more important for Mr. Black Belt to have character? Why?

[brianhunter]

Kinda the way Im feeling turner...thats why I started this thread.........

I heard a story a long time ago I will try to retell it and I hope i get it right,

There is an ape house at a zoo with several apes in it..there is a stair way from the play area to which food is always thrown down.
One day an ape gets very curious and walks over to go up the stairs and gets blasted by fire houses and knocked back down.
The other apes see this happen and try it for themselves with the same result.
Every few years a young ape not seeing what has happened before will walk towards the stairway and all the "older experienced senior" apes grab the young ape and hold him back knowing in their minds what will happen when he goes up the stairs.
Those young apes grow up to be old apes and knowing the fear their fathers had for the stair case stop and hold other young apes from the eminent danger that awaits at the stairs.
Generation after generation stay away from the staircase not knowing exactly why but the simple paradigm of "its always been that way" When in fact over 30 years ago the staircase was changed to lead to a play area that the zoo keepers could not figure out why the apes would not go play in it.
Dont be an ape!

[GouRonin]

Originally posted by brianhunter
Out of the qualities that many believe a black belt should possess which do you guys feel is the most important

Actually having the black belt is pretty important. Otherwise your gi flys open.

[brianhunter]

funny gou ;) way to simplify it...back to basics i must go he he

[Yari]

Originally posted by GouRonin



Actually having the black belt is pretty important. Otherwise your gi flys open.

I knew I was missing something........ Now I can quite tucking it in my pants, and hanging the belt over my diploma.... :rofl:


/Yari

[tonbo]

First off, thanks for putting things into perspective, Gou. It's kinda like Mr. Miyagi, huh? "Yes, I have black belt. Sears, $4.95. Helps hold up pants." (paraphrased, of course).

ROFL.....:rofl:


So why is it important for Mr. Average Joe Blo have character? Why is it even more important for Mr. Black Belt to have character? Why?

On to the other stuff.....

As humans, we like to think of ourselves as above common animals, and in most cases this is true. However, we do things that animals don't do to each other, generally: most species don't kill each other without reason, or torture each other. Most animals don't sit idly by while others of their species starve and go without shelter. They also don't have social structure that allows them to help each other out or to pool resources beyond a simple family unit.

We, as humans, do. We also tend to try and stratify ourselves in society: " I am better than so-and-so, but not as good as X." One of the ways that we stratify ourselves is by morality: we choose to be on the side of good, nuetral or "evil" by our actions. Most people tend to ally on the "good" side, and try to do what they can to help others. This may be for religious reasons, feelings of duty, altruism, or whatever. Some people *intend* to set a good example, others just "fall into" it.

I think that character is something that makes us feel better about ourselves, or to help us distinguish ourselves from the common "evil rabble". As for what the reasons are that Black Belts are supposed to have character, I think it stems from the beliefs that teachers are supposed to have a higher character from most others: they are imparting wisdom, and should be revered (this is the conception, anyway). I think it's more the position than the belt, but that is, again, a personal thought.

Finally, we tend to require character from our leaders, generally. We *expect* icons and leaders to lead "decent" lives, and be somewhat of a moral guidepost....even when we know that they are human, just like us. It still kinda rattles people when something like the Lewinsky scandal comes up, or when a well-liked actor dies from drugs. Black Belts are part of that "mythology"; by "definition", they are supposed to be protectors, mentors, guides, teachers......trusted to teach and to help us "find the path".

Hopefully, I'll get there someday....;).....I still don't see myself as anyone who can impart great wisdom.......

Just my 2 yen's worth.....

Peace--

[brianhunter]

for someone who cant impart wisdom Id say you nailed it!!!!

[Nightingale]

I agree.

Also, I think a really big part of martial arts understanding that needs to be (and usually is) taught by the black belts is when and how to use martial arts, and more importantly, when and how NOT to use it. A black belt needs to have the ability to explain this to others.

[Blindside]

As humans, we like to think of ourselves as above common animals, and in most cases this is true. However, we do things that animals don't do to each other, generally: most species don't kill each other without reason, or torture each other. Most animals don't sit idly by while others of their species starve and go without shelter. They also don't have social structure that allows them to help each other out or to pool resources beyond a simple family unit.

Heh, sorry Tonbo, the wildlife biologist in me is going to take exception! ;)


"However, we do things that animals don't do to each other, generally: most species don't kill each other without reason, or torture each other."

Actually predators tend to kill/displace other predators just to prevent competition for future possible resources. Wolves displace coyotes, coyotes kill fox, lions kill leapords etc. In other cases there are instances of killing for no apparent reason, such as juvenile delinquent elephants killing rhinos. While the idea of torture is debatable, watching an orca pod "play" with a seal would probably qualify from the seals perspective.

"Most animals don't sit idly by while others of their species starve and go without shelter. They also don't have social structure that allows them to help each other out or to pool resources beyond a simple family unit."

Most animals need some sort of social bond to go to the aid of another animal. It is one of the reasons why social structures in animals is so fascinating. It is only the rarest of cases that you hear about intra-species aid. A wolfpack is alot more complicated than a simple family unit as you have multiple genetically unrelated wolves raising cubs of the alpha pair. This type of social structure is also seen in Harris hawks. Elephants are known to do elaborate meet and greet behavior when encountering distant relatives in herds that don't meet often. Troops of primates do have elaborate social structures between unrelated individuals to the point where a threatened individual will take young relatives of the aggressor hostage to prevent being harmed. I don't think I'm going to go into detail about how bonobos use sex to smooth over problems in a relationship or to get something they want (like an orange).

Anyway the point is the animal world is a bit more complicated than that. :) Talk about an off topic post!!!
:D

Salute,

Lamont

[Blindside]

OK, back on topic.

One of the traits that we require for black is the ability to teach. We have a requirement for teaching hours and it is actually a graded portion of the test (we do all testing individually). If you don't want to teach you will never reach black in our school, that is the simple fact. We currently have a very talented green belt that can beat the snot out of me (and alot of other black belts), but unless he decides to become a teacher, he is as high as he will ever go.

For us, a black belt is someone who has the desire and ability to pass on the art.

Lamont

[jeffkyle]

There are alot of aspects that i see as important to not only being in Kenpo, or being a Martial Artist, but in Life as well.
I think it is important to remember where you came from (when training is concerned) and if you get to be a higher ranking individual not to forget to show as much respect (however you define it) to the students as they show to you. That is how you would do it in life. Just because you have been training longer, and know more material doesn't make you "better" than the students in the fact that you deserve their respect as an individual. Of course it can be demanded for the reason that you may be able to kick their tail, but that is definitely not how strong friendships and relationships with others are built.

[Kirk]

Originally posted by tonbo

First off, thanks for putting things into perspective, Gou. It's kinda like Mr. Miyagi, huh? "Yes, I have black belt. Sears, $4.95. Helps hold up pants." (paraphrased, of course).

ROFL.....:rofl:

J.C. Penny, 3.98. In Okinawa, belt mean no need rope, hold up
pants.

[Goldendragon7]

Now back to waxing my truck!

:asian:

[ikenpo]

Originally posted by tonbo

I think there are a couple which should be viewed as "most important":

Discipline: You have to be able to show mental and physical discipline. You may not always *want* to do certain things (pushups, katas, etc.), but since they are part of the training, you should do them without complaint.

Respect: A martial arts student needs to recognize those around him/her and treat them fairly. You should have respect for the instructors and upper belts, as well as all other students generally.

Fairness: A sense of fair play is pretty mandatory. If you are willing to cheat your way to the top or step on others to get where you want to be in training, you have no place in a good school. You should be willing to get as you give.

Honor: Personal honor is a must-have. If you can't be honorable and take accountability for your own actions, you haven't arrived yet.

These are a couple that I think are important. Of course, you also have things like compassion, modesty, courtesy, perserverence, etc., etc. that should be part of a martial artist's being.....but I won't go into those right now.....I've rambled enough already. However, I think there is a pretty extensive list that makes up a martial artist's toolbox....

Peace--

All the above is cool (particularly fairness and respect, which for me is a bare minimum now), but we all realize that the reality is that regardless of belt we are human and because of that flawed. Some of the qualities won't be imparted or stressed in certain people when training and if they weren't there when they started training, it's gonna be hard to beat it into them after they've gotten their black (of course, it's not unheard of :D ), there are some higher ranking instructors that will put ya in your place regardless of your rank. I know Mr. Kelly is one that will chop a tree down to size and you respect him for that level of brash honesty.

Some of the instructor qualities I look for are humility (through participation), participation, ability to do and not just talk about it, depth of knowledge of the system, fairness and respect. As a grown man many of the qualities you spoke of were already imparted in me growing up and in my training in Kenpo as a teenager. Today I look for content (charater & curriculum), I acknowledge that my goal is to find someone to help me get to where I want to be in my growth as a student of the arts.

jb:asian:

[Goldendragon7]

:asian:

[Seig]

The belt is above all else, a symbol. Quite a few have made a mockery of it, people with high belts that cannot prove their progression for example. Above all, the person makes the belt, not the other way around.

[tonbo]

Hey guys, sorry I ain't an expert!!!

Blindside: Yeah, I made a few more generalitites than necessary, and for that I apologize. I realize that there are really complex social structures in nature--heck, I see it in my two dogs!! As well, I have seen quite a few nature shows and have read a few studies that discuss the social structure of elephants, monkeys, apes, and the whole lot. I know how that works, I just jumped in with generalities.

Basically, I respect your knowledge and opinion, and apologize for the general statements. My point was basically just to say that hey, we figure that since we're human, we hold ourselves to standards "above the animals". Unfortunately, we don't realize that we really haven't fallen all that far from the tree, no?

I once read an argument where someone was trying to prove that humans were smarter than dolphins, since we had opposable thumbs. The first person said, "You know, we *have* to be smarter--you don't see dolphins building any cities, do you?". The second person said, "No, but you don't see them dropping bombs on each other, either, do you?". Made a good point in my opinion.....

Again, sorry if I offended. Mother Nature has already scolded me.....:eek:

Peace--

[tonbo]

J.C. Penny, 3.98. In Okinawa, belt mean no need rope, hold up

Hehe.....lots of times, I remember the generalities, and most of the time, the source.....but not always the whole quote.

Thanks, Kirk!!

:D

Peace--

[ikenpo]

Originally posted by tonbo

Hey guys, sorry I ain't an expert!!!

Blindside: Yeah, I made a few more generalitites than necessary, and for that I apologize.

Again, sorry if I offended. Mother Nature has already scolded me.....:eek:

Peace--

Apologize for what? Every dialogue starts with a general premise and then you peel away at the surface to get to the meat of the issue.

Great minds come up with the general concept that no one else thinks about, or enough about to mention. Of course Greater minds disect it to add validity or discount the base premise (of course this can be the same person).

Please continue to "offend";) ....and share your thoughts.

jb:asian:

[Goldendragon7]

From a natural born killaaaaaaaa



:asian:

[ikenpo]

Originally posted by Goldendragon7

From a natural born killaaaaaaaa



:asian:

Your one of the ones that made me that way.....:asian:

[Kirk]

Originally posted by tonbo



Hehe.....lots of times, I remember the generalities, and most of the time, the source.....but not always the whole quote.

Thanks, Kirk!!

:D

Peace--

Hey, if it's trivial, pointless or will do me no good whatsoever,
I'll remember it! Just make it slightly important, and I
won't remember a thing!

[Blindside]

Hi Tonbo,

Hey, I was just having fun, no offense was taken or meant.

Peace bro,

Lamont

[Goldendragon7]

:asian:

[RCastillo]

Originally posted by jbkenpo



Apologize for what? Every dialogue starts with a general premise and then you peel away at the surface to get to the meat of the issue.

Great minds come up with the general concept that no one else thinks about, or enough about to mention. Of course Greater minds disect it to add validity or discount the base premise (of course this can be the same person).

Please continue to "offend";) ....and share your thoughts.

jb:asian:

The last time "I offended" Mr. Conatser, he hurt me real bad!

You sure you wanna say that?:confused:

[ikenpo]

Originally posted by RCastillo



The last time "I offended" Mr. Coatser, he hurt me real bad!

You sure you wanna say that?:confused:

Was it the last time you MISSPELLED his name :D

jb:asian:

[RCastillo]

Originally posted by jbkenpo



Was it the last time you MISSPELLED his name :D

jb:asian:

It's now been corrected!:soapbox:

Besides, he's Scottsdale, and as MC Hammer once said, "Can't touch this!:rofl:

[Seig]

Originally posted by RCastillo



It's now been corrected!:soapbox:

Besides, he's Scottsdale, and as MC Hammer once said, "Can't touch this!:rofl:
Yeah and he kept right on saying that as he filed bankruptcy!:rofl:

[RCastillo]

Originally posted by Seig


Yeah and he kept right on saying that as he filed bankruptcy!:rofl:

Hey ,that's the "American Way!":hammer:

Case dismissed!

[Seig]

Don't Own This :D

[Goldendragon7]

Originally posted by jbkenpo
Your one of the ones that made me that way.....

hee hee We've only just begun.... you need much more training if you are to control all of Texas and rid us of the evil Darth Castillo de la Corpo

:eek:

[tonbo]

No problemo, I took no offense!!

I chime in and give my penny's worth when I think I have a point to make......sometimes I ramble *too* much, and sometimes I don't give enough info....and sometimes, I'm just plain wrong. It happens. Still, I persist...;)

Anyway, the conversation is lively, and all is good. If I make mistakes, or don't include enough, then hey, I EXPECT my friends here on MartialTalk to bring it to my attention!!

Again, no problem. I have taken nothing personally, and don't plan on taking anything personally. Always feel free to jump in and set me straight where I'm wrong: my hide's a little thicker than a single post.....hehe.....

:D

Peace--

[RCastillo]

Originally posted by Goldendragon7



hee hee We've only just begun.... you need much more training if you are to control all of Texas and rid us of the evil Darth Castillo de la Corpo

:eek:

You can't have him, he's in my GANG now! We're growing as we speak!:2pistols:

[ikenpo]

Originally posted by Goldendragon7



hee hee We've only just begun.... you need much more training if you are to control all of Texas and rid us of the evil Darth Castillo de la Corpo

:eek:

I'll settle for my garage, let the Kenpo instructors in Hoston divey it up, Mr. Castillo can have Corpus and the surrounding border towns, Mr. Duffy can keep Austin (save a little for Schorder & Abedin), Mr. Swan can keep San Antonio just save some for Mr. Schmit, Morano, Abernathy and Rick Castro. Fowler, Gorham & Bulot can fight it out over Dallas (that's a toss up and would be a good one to watch). No body cares about El Paso so the UKF can keep it (although if it were closer than 17 1/2 hrs away I'd definite like to meet and train with those Kenpo brothers)....

jb:asian:

[Goldendragon7]

:rofl:

[Kirk]

Originally posted by jbkenpo

No body cares about El Paso so the UKF can keep it (although if it were closer than 17 1/2 hrs away I'd definite like to meet and train with those Kenpo brothers)....

jb:asian:

What, the brethren in San Antonio aren't good enough for you!??!
;)

[Goldendragon7]

:rofl: :asian:

[RCastillo]

Originally posted by Goldendragon7

:rofl:

Not to worry, a little cash thrown his way, he'll be with us!:ultracool

[RCastillo]

Originally posted by Kirk



What, the brethren in San Antonio aren't good enough for you!??!
;)

Hey homey, lighten up, you're already in!(just remember, there ain't no leaving, either):ultracool

[ikenpo]

Originally posted by RCastillo



Not to worry, a little cash thrown his way, he'll be with us!:ultracool

Man,

Everybody thinks I can be bought or am in it for the money...Mr. C you been telling folks how broke I am? :p


jb:asian:

[ikenpo]

Originally posted by Goldendragon7

:rofl: :asian:

and bring some backup...lol

Why are you trying to get Kirk hurt Mr. C? Puttin him up against an old mangy mutt like myself...Remember he's a 2nd Black...on Martialtalk...:rofl:

jb:asian:

[ikenpo]

Originally posted by Goldendragon7

Oh a separatist:rofl:

I was for the longest, but not by choice..

jb:asian:

[Goldendragon7]

Take these chains from my heart and set me free...... song starts up....

:asian:

[Seig]

He's a Free Agent . Jb, use that to get a better deal!

[ikenpo]

Originally posted by Seig

He's a Free Agent . Jb, use that to get a better deal!

Bro,

That should be the last thing I ever have to do. The people that I do have the pleasure to associate with know me from the inside and out. They are like family and I shouldn't have to sell myself. If I do (to get a better deal) then it probably isn't worth it or I've presented myself in the wrong way. I have a guage inside that tells me if something is right or wrong for me and it's recently been turned back on, so I'm taking my time and talking to folks about the possibility.

I do however agree that students are as important as a great instructor, but a great student has the potential to become a great instructor themselves and there is a pride that an instructor can have in knowing that he or she had a big part to do with that, and by doing that they have given back to the Art.

So enough about me...lets get back to talking about somethig interesting.

jb :asian:

[Goldendragon7]

by a natural born Killaaa......... Man, I wanna go hunting with you...... :rofl:

:asian:

[Klondike93]

Do you go hunting GD, and if so where?

We used to have pretty good elk and deer hunting here in colorado but there has been an outbreak of chronic wasing disease the last couple of years.

I like to go Bow hunting in Sept. for deer, it's a real challenge to try and get close enough to one to take a shot. There was one place I tried and it worked, till they caught me and asked me to leave :shrug: . I always thought the zoo was for everyone :eek:

I'm also a member of PETA too........ People Eating Tasty Animals !

:asian:

[Goldendragon7]

was in south central Arizona for Javelina with a Bow....

:asian:

[Klondike93]

I've never hunted for those, but hunting for anything with a bow is tougher than rifle.

Did you get one?

:asian:

[Goldendragon7]

Especially when the guys you go with tell you not to carry a handgun...... only to find out all of them do...... so there I was in the middle of a Sounder of about 40 pigs......... and only arrows... (8 at that)!!!!

Talk about droppingsss.......:eek:

[RCastillo]

Originally posted by Goldendragon7

Especially when the guys you go with tell you not to carry a handgun...... only to find out all of them do...... so there I was in the middle of a Sounder of about 40 pigs......... and only arrows... (8 at that)!!!!

Talk about droppingsss.......:eek:

It's called, "Mass Attack!":biggun:

[Seig]

Originally posted by jbkenpo



Bro,

That should be the last thing I ever have to do. The people that I do have the pleasure to associate with know me from the inside and out. They are like family and I shouldn't have to sell myself. If I do (to get a better deal) then it probably isn't worth it or I've presented myself in the wrong way.
jb :asian:
JB,
You have not presented your self in the wrong way at all. I was trying, and failed, to lighten the mood. I apologize.:asian:

[Seig]

Originally posted by Goldendragon7

Especially when the guys you go with tell you not to carry a handgun.:eek:
And you listened???????:confused:

[ikenpo]

Originally posted by Seig


JB,
You have not presented your self in the wrong way at all. I was trying, and failed, to lighten the mood. I apologize.:asian:

It's cool, no worries...:D

jb:asian:

[Goldendragon7]

Originally posted by Seig
And you listened???????:confused:

Yes, he was my instructor!!
Never again...... lol

:rofl:

:asian: