confused

[hammer]

Just a question,or two,

Does participating in a seminar count as trainning with a Instructor?

What about taking photos with the presenter (master) of the seminar?

My questions arose after seaching the net, and seeing the claims of a school owner, as to who he has trained with, knowing in one case ,we only spent 1.5 hours there!

Picture opportunities came up dose this vailidate his claim?
or is it just a way to self promote, and give regonition to endose such claims?

your thoughts??
cheers

[Sin]

If someone tells you they have trained with someone that is REALLY high up there in rank IE Oyata, i would be sure to ask them 1)How long 2)What belt rank did they get with him ect. To to validate claims, and don't feel like your disrespecting someone when you inquire about there training, because if there truthful 100% they will not be upset.............

Be careful of all the mcdojos out there. They are all about Flash and they don't have any tradition what so ever, To them there all about the almighty doller

Good question!!

[MJS]

Just a question,or two,

Does participating in a seminar count as trainning with a Instructor?

What about taking photos with the presenter (master) of the seminar?

My questions arose after seaching the net, and seeing the claims of a school owner, as to who he has trained with, knowing in one case ,we only spent 1.5 hours there!

Picture opportunities came up dose this vailidate his claim?
or is it just a way to self promote, and give regonition to endose such claims?

your thoughts??
cheers

I would have to say NO to both questions. IMO, attending a seminar with someone that you possibly may not see again for quite a long period of time, does not constitute saying that you have 'trained' with him or are a student of his. Yes, of course, the person is doing some hands on training for X number of hours, but if its not on a regular basis, that is not training in the same fashion as if I went to this inst. school 4 times a week to train.

As for a picture...still doesn't count IMO. I have pictures of myself with a few inst. but I do not consider myself a student of theirs or would I use them as a promotion to get students at my school. Now again, if I was a regular student of said inst. and I trained with him on a regular basis, had him in for seminars, etc. then yes, that would be different.

Mike

[Adept]

Be careful of all the mcdojos out there. They are all about Flash and they don't have any tradition what so ever, To them there all about the almighty doller
Tradition be damned. I'm far more concerned with the level of appropriate training. Frankly, I dont concern myself with this kind of martial arts penis size contest.

'I trained with so-and-so!'

'Did not!'

'Did too!'

'Nuh uh!'

'Uh huh!'

The wholle thing just seems childish to me. I don't care who my instructors have trained with, or claimed to train with, so long as I believe I am recieving quality instruction. I most certainly don't care who other peoples instructors claim to have trained with.

[loki09789]

The wholle thing just seems childish to me. I don't care who my instructors have trained with, or claimed to train with, so long as I believe I am recieving quality instruction. I most certainly don't care who other peoples instructors claim to have trained with.
If they can do it well, it speaks to their skill and discipline/talent as a practitioner.

If they can teach it, it speaks to their skill and discipline/talent as a teacher.

If they have to make up or embellish claims about who and where/when/how long they trained with XYZ folks, it speaks to them as a person (their character, their integrity....).

As an adult, I am in charge of who I associate with - and who I expose my children to along the way. If I KNOW that there is shadiness in an instructors claims while they are preaching 'ethics' and 'character' to me and my children...I'm gone. I can get good instruction without comprimising character.

I agree with your point that a good artist does not automatically make a person a 'good person' but I do think that between the two, I would rather affiliate with 'good people' than 'great martial artists' that will lead me the wrong way or do things that (by association) leave a negative impression on me as well.

How 'valid' will your rank be if the person who promoted you and the association you belong to has a smeared and questionable past?

Of course the proof of skill is 'on the mat' for the individual but proof of the quality of a system/system head is 'on the pedigree' so to speak.

[Sin]

i wouldn't want to be trained by an unhonorable man. Martial Arts is not about "the way of asskick" its about growing morally, as much as physically. Your sensei is a role model to you no matter how hard you deny it. (not that you are though, just some would disagree)

[hammer]

Adept, I admire your straight forward approach and it is refreshing ,although I dont feel that sin was refering to tradition ,as a traditional system of martial arts but rather to the moral values that are referenced to the martial arts.

Additionally bullsh it comes in many colours an shades, so you have to know were your ve been , to know were your going,( hope) and as for what is the appropriate level of training, dose that not reflect the level of experince of a Instructor???

The miss representation of grades, and claims, only indicates as to the type of training that a student will recive , there have been those that thought were reciving the appropriate level of trainng and or instruction only to find out that it was well below par,

just a thought
cheers

[Sin]

Adept, I admire your straight forward approach and it is refreshing ,although I dont feel that sin was refering to tradition ,as a traditional system of martial arts but rather to the moral values that are referenced to the martial arts.


just a thought
cheers


you hit the nail on the head, but also I was refering to the traditional ways of doing a kata

[loki09789]

Adept, I admire your straight forward approach and it is refreshing ,although I dont feel that sin was refering to tradition ,as a traditional system of martial arts but rather to the moral values that are referenced to the martial arts.

Additionally bullsh it comes in many colours an shades, so you have to know were your ve been , to know were your going,( hope) and as for what is the appropriate level of training, dose that not reflect the level of experince of a Instructor???

The miss representation of grades, and claims, only indicates as to the type of training that a student will recive , there have been those that thought were reciving the appropriate level of trainng and or instruction only to find out that it was well below par,

just a thought
cheers
Married folks know this one and I think it has an analogous fit here:

If he/she will cheat WITH you on his/her current significant other...then they will cheat ON you when you are his/her new significant other.

If an instructor will lie to others (an maybe you) about his/her pedigree, he/she will lie to you about YOUR pedigree as well.

[hammer]

SIN
Sorry, pehaps it was not my place to respond ,but it was pretty self evident as to what you were refering to except the kata, lol
cheers

[Sin]

Married folks know this one and I think it has an analogous fit here:

If he/she will cheat WITH you on his/her current significant other...then they will cheat ON you when you are his/her new significant other.

If an instructor will lie to others (an maybe you) about his/her pedigree, he/she will lie to you about YOUR pedigree as well.

put very well.

that is why i would rather train with an honorable person than someone who ordered there black belt off the internet and bought a couple Dillman/Oyata tapes

[hammer]

If an instructor will lie to others (an maybe you) about his/her pedigree, he/she will lie to you about YOUR pedigree as well.So true, MR Conaster as a very common quote, "Time will either promote you expose you" funny huh!

cheers

[Sin]

No one knows who won a war, until about 20 year later. history decides the winner. Same with the martial arts instructors

[Adept]

i wouldn't want to be trained by an unhonorable man. Martial Arts is not about "the way of asskick" its about growing morally, as much as physically. Your sensei is a role model to you no matter how hard you deny it. (not that you are though, just some would disagree)
To only a very minimal extent, I agree with you. On a personal level, my instructor is not a moral role model. My parents where, certain figures from the media were (notably, and embarrasingly, Optimus Prime), but I didn't start training until I was 15. My cognitive development was pretty much taken care of by then, and even if it weren't, three hours a week of physical training is hardly enough to cause one to develop.

MA have helped me to grow in terms of self discipline, self respect and confidence, it si true, but morally they are no more of a guide for me than baseball or cricket. They are just a set of maneuveres which I use with my own, pre-existing philosophies.

To which end, I don't care if my instructor is a liar and a cheat. So long as he still gives quality instruction, it doesn't worry me.

Now, admittedly, a person who feels they have to make up credentials is probably going to give sub-par instruction as well, but for me at least, I feel it important to seperate the two, and judge my instructor by the instruction I am receiving, not by his personal history and choices (except where they place me and my family at risk).

[FearlessFreep]

To which end, I don't care if my instructor is a liar and a cheat. So long as he still gives quality instruction, it doesn't worry me.

Usually newbies cannot tell the difference between good instruction or not, and you may be a lot of money and time into an instructor before you realize he's just putting you on.

If you know the character of a person, then you can have a better feeling that the guy is at least doing the best he can for you, or not. If you know that an instructor seriously trained and studied under a person of great skill and knowledge, then it's more likely that he knows his stuff. If he lies about who he studied under, then what else will he lie to you about? And how will you know?

Claims of lineage may not be important in there own right, but honorable claims of lineage can help cover over uncertainty in whether or not the person who is teaching you something you've never done before if he really has grounds for what he is teaching you

[dearnis.com]

Nothing wrong with asking an instructor (or potential instructor) who, where, when, and how often. Photos alone don't mean a whole lot (and I am an advocate of taking photos...for your own memories if nothing else!) If the instructor has a number of photos with a big name, obviously over a span of years, in different settings, etc., that adds credibility.
It all comes down to personal integrity. My example- I have attended a handful of seminars with Dan Inosanto over a 10 year span. Can I claim to have studied with him- no; at best I can claim to have spent a few hours studying him. Good time, enhanced my understanding of what I do by means of a different perspective; saw a famous martial artist do his thing. Very positive, but not something on which to base teaching claims!

[47MartialMan]

A picture is worth a thousand words, but do they tell the truth or falsehood?

I do not think seminars account for anything but a tap of knowledge lightly and someone to tap the wallet heavily.

[RRouuselot]

Just a question,or two,

1) Does participating in a seminar count as trainning with a Instructor?

2) What about taking photos with the presenter (master) of the seminar?

3) My questions arose after seaching the net, and seeing the claims of a school owner, as to who he has trained with, knowing in one case ,we only spent 1.5 hours there!

4) Picture opportunities came up dose this vailidate his claim?
or is it just a way to self promote, and give regonition to endose such claims?

your thoughts??
cheers

1)Yes and no. It doesn’t make you a “student” but if he imparts knowledge to you then I guess that can be classified as “training” with him.

2)Should be no problem but some people will do that to justify their claims that they will make AFTER the seminar. I know of several famous authors and also infamous nut jobs that practice “shashin-do” (the way of photography). It’s pretty sneaky but it almost always solidifies their claim to fame….that is UNLESS you were there to see what REALLY happened.

3)This is typical.

4)It doesn’t validate anything except they were in the same room when someone had access to a camera.

Personally, I think the more photos a person takes with “famous” teachers and claims they trained with them the more questionable the actual training was.

[RRouuselot]

No one knows who won a war, until about 20 year later. history decides the winner. Same with the martial arts instructors
Actually the winner decides history........

[RRouuselot]

1) If someone tells you they have trained with someone that is REALLY high up there in rank IE Oyata, i would be sure to ask them 1)How long 2)What belt rank did they get with him ect. To to validate claims, and don't feel like your disrespecting someone when you inquire about there training, because if there truthful 100% they will not be upset.............

2) Be careful of all the mcdojos out there. They are all about Flash and they don't have any tradition what so ever, To them there all about the almighty doller

Good question!!
1) Yeah....my feelings exactly. Funny how some folks get upset though. http://martialtalk.com/forum/images/smilies/wink.gif

2) Especially one's with odd sounding names that try to use asian sounding names but don't really know how to.

[Drac]

I think so....

[kanjc]

My concept of training is thus : Who did you spent countless,sweaty hours with learning from, their knowledge being past down to you. Pictures mean nothing, I have a computer, scanner, good printer and Paint Shop Pro; if you want I could probably doctor up a picture of me with sponge bob squarepants. Our Sabomnim tells us from the start that if we promote to the next belt, we should feel confident that we can go to any other tae kwon do school, show them what we know and still maintain rank.

[Sin]

i wouldn't want to be trained by an unhonorable man. Martial Arts is not about "the way of asskick" its about growing morally, as much as physically. Your sensei is a role model to you no matter how hard you deny it. (not that you are though, just some would disagree)


i ended up on getting a bad rep point due to this post. What did I do/say to get it?

[47MartialMan]

Pics are always deceiving for they ony show a pose

[MichiganTKD]

Seminars count as a category by themselves, for they tend to be special occasions as opposed to consistant training with an individual. For example, I have attended seminars with GM Hae Man Park, as well as one with Kushida-sensei of Yoshokai Aikido. However, I do not count myself as official students of either, because they were special training events, as opposed to consistant classes where they issued ranks to me. Not to mention, seminars tend to be more open events. Classes tend to have the same people regularly who know each other.

As far as pictures, let's just say that pictures can be deceiving. Aside from the fact that in today's digital age, pictures can be altered. Also, there are many people out there who will quickly rush in to a picture, get their pic taken with a celebrity or high ranking instructor, and then claim them as their teacher or the basis of a close relationship. I call them photo whores. The reality is both just happened to be there and one took advantage of the other. This is one reason why I don't really trust pictures in magazines. You don't know the whole background of the photo. It looks like Joe Blow actually knows this guy, when the reality is that he just weaseled his way into the photo.

[47MartialMan]

I guess I am not one of those that attend seminars. I have other things to do with my time and money

[Simon Curran]

On the subject of the whole "Who is or isn't your instructor" thing, the club I train at have recently changed organisation, due to a former head instructor having some rather spurious history, however I had been pomoted by him up to a level, and when we changed it was just a matter of getting that rank verified (and un-learning a lot of bad habits)

The problem here is that there really isn't so much choice as regards insrtuctors, so we just had to make do at first, when we found something more suitable we didn't hesitate to change.

[47MartialMan]

There sems to be a lot of instructors with such history. But does that change them as a instructor with knowledge/ability or one that has no credentials?

[Simon Curran]

Well the guy in question is very skilled at what he does, and he certainly gives a good impression at first but when I compare his teachings to what I have learned since, I prefer the way we are going now (hint: less flash more butt kicking...)

[James Kovacich]

Just a question,or two,

Does participating in a seminar count as trainning with a Instructor?

What about taking photos with the presenter (master) of the seminar?

My questions arose after seaching the net, and seeing the claims of a school owner, as to who he has trained with, knowing in one case ,we only spent 1.5 hours there!

Picture opportunities came up dose this vailidate his claim?
or is it just a way to self promote, and give regonition to endose such claims?

your thoughts??
cheers
A 1.5 seminar is not much time to be concodered someones student. Although some instructors do use seminars to reach people in other oarts of the world. As far as student status. Instructors sometimes count the number of seminar hours.

[47MartialMan]

Well the guy in question is very skilled at what he does, and he certainly gives a good impression at first but when I compare his teachings to what I have learned since, I prefer the way we are going now (hint: less flash more butt kicking...)
So, he was a instructor within his own term, but had a lee favorable history? And, he did offer exactly what you were looking for?

[Simon Curran]

So, he was a instructor within his own term, but had a lee favorable history? And, he did offer exactly what you were looking for?
Being a relative noob at the time and a complete beginner to Kenpo, I thought that I was getting what I was looking for, but having now gotten a basis for comparison, I realise I wasn't, and yes he is a good instructor within his own terms, just not necessarily what I was looking for, and hearing of his exploits (or lack thereof) doesn't inspire respect.

[47MartialMan]

Being a relative noob at the time and a complete beginner to Kenpo, I thought that I was getting what I was looking for, but having now gotten a basis for comparison, I realise I wasn't, and yes he is a good instructor within his own terms, just not necessarily what I was looking for, and hearing of his exploits (or lack thereof) doesn't inspire respect.
But yay, did you come to realize or was "enlighten".

But, sad, of those whom had not.

And woe, that this is happening all over the world.

[Simon Curran]

But yay, did you come to realize or was "enlighten".

But, sad, of those whom had not.

And woe, that this is happening all over the world.
Too true...

[VSanhodo]

Personally I feel seminars are only a supliment to ones training. If you attend a seminar buy the tapes and reading material then never practice what was taught it is probably a waste of your time and money. SO I see seminars only as a supliment.

So far as photos with ppl. I was fortunate enought o attend a fund raising dinner where Dick Chenny was the key note speaker. I was able to have my picture taken with him. Doesnt mean he and I are life long friends.

Several years ago I attneded a seminar where the fellow claimed to have studied under Wally Jay fro 10 years, So I expected him to be fairly decent at what he was doing. The guy was super nice and his knowledge and technique was not even close to be being fair at best. TO his credit at the end of the seminar he was very honest. When asked again how long he had trained with Wally Jay. He said he attends at least 2 seminars a year for the past 10 years or so. Ok, so lets look at that. "TWO" seminars a year, lets say for sake of conversation each was a long seminar and lasted 4 hours a day for 3 days, Friday - Sunday. That comes out to 12 hours of instruction times 2 seminars a year, equals 24 hours of instruction times ten years, equals 240 hours of instruction. Now lets break that down further. My Classical JuJitsu classes are 2 1/2 hours in length 3 times a week, thats 7 1/2 hours a week. Lets divide 250 by 7.5 for round numbers that comes out to roughly 33 weeks of training and thats if the person attends every class for that time period. Thats roughly 9 months of training. Geeeezz by my calculatons the fellow is still a white belt in my class.
Its easy to make claims, never be afraid to ask for credentials and be willing to validate them if at all possible. PPL today are so damned gullable and thats how the Martial arts get a bad name by a few yahooooos and wanna beeeeeessss who make false claims.
Now onto another posts I read on here somewhere. Someone stated they didnt care about thier instructors morals or claims as long as he or she was getting good training. Hmmmmmm, Please if thats the way you feel about the ppl you hang out with, please stay away from me. I do care about a persons morals, ethics, claims and credientials. To not care about these things doesnt speak very highly of you.
Thanks for your questions
San

[Simon Curran]

Now onto another posts I read on here somewhere. Someone stated they didnt care about thier instructors morals or claims as long as he or she was getting good training. Hmmmmmm, Please if thats the way you feel about the ppl you hang out with, please stay away from me. I do care about a persons morals, ethics, claims and credientials. To not care about these things doesnt speak very highly of you.
Thanks for your questions
San
To be fair to Adept, it did appear to me that he was talking in a martial arts context, although I do see your point.

[MichiganTKD]

I do care about the morals, values, reputation etc. of those I associate with, whether in or out of class. Guilt by association. By associating with dishonorable people, you infer that you share those values.

[James Kovacich]

Ok, so lets look at that. "TWO" seminars a year, lets say for sake of conversation each was a long seminar and lasted 4 hours a day for 3 days, Friday - Sunday. That comes out to 12 hours of instruction times 2 seminars a year, equals 24 hours of instruction times ten years, equals 240 hours of instruction. Now lets break that down further. My Classical JuJitsu classes are 2 1/2 hours in length 3 times a week, thats 7 1/2 hours a week. Lets divide 250 by 7.5 for round numbers that comes out to roughly 33 weeks of training and thats if the person attends every class for that time period. Thats roughly 9 months of training. Geeeezz by my calculatons the fellow is still a white belt in my class.
San
2.5 hrs per class. You are the exception. I train my students 2 hours, 2-3 per week. If I cut it short my students complain. They are used to the 2 hrs. but today, most schools teach a 1 hr. class and only 2 times a week. So realistically, in a lot of schools a student may only get 8 hrs. a month.

I agree 2 seminars a year is not much. But it does break down to the experience the student already has and whether or not they can or will be training inbetween seminars.

I've found that I get better through teaching alone, besides my training. Things to consider.

[Goldendragon7]

Just a question,or two,

(1) Does participating in a seminar count as training with a Instructor?

(2) What about taking photos with the presenter (master) of the seminar?

(3) My questions arose after searching the net, and seeing the claims of a school owner, as to who he has trained with, knowing in one case ,we only spent 1.5 hours there!

(4) Picture opportunities came up dose this validate his claim? Or is this just a way to self promote, and give recognition to endorse such claims?

your thoughts?? cheers


1) 2 things here......... 1 if the type of seminar was in fact a training session vs. a general informational type of seminar then yes, if 2) in fact the instructor making the claims actually "participated" in the seminar.

2) Everyone takes photos after such events..... only proof that there was a seminar with said person.

3) reference "1"

3) Both, yes it proves that he did indeed be at the same event at the same time, and yes it also is used or mis-used by some for false claims.

Many have had seminars with Ed Parker through his life...but few had actually trained with him personally or were his "personal" students....... yet many claims are circulated that are very misleading.

:asian:

[47MartialMan]

I guess, if one has time to attend a seminar, then they have less time to train at their school. As if they ar saying "my school/teacher is good, but i have to learn more at this event cause they are not good enough?

[Goldendragon7]

I guess, if one has time to attend a seminar, then they have less time to train at their school. As if they are saying "my school/teacher is good, but I have to learn more at this event cause they are not good enough?
I disagree, I believe that seminars can be very beneficial. These functions are good to go to keep an open mind and be introduced to different methods that are out there or just expanding on knowledge from a person more experienced in your own system.

They can also be used as a comparison as to what you are learning in your home studio. I have personally come away from many a seminar thanking the higher power for the personal teachers and system that I have had and have, it gave me a new appreciation for what and who I have trained with.

I never went to a seminar (or returned from one) thinking that my instruction "was not good enough". I did however, learn new ideas and differences as to how and what different people use as training drills, exercises, and philosophy.

All part of the "process" and chalk it all up to experience and exposure.

Remember, everything is useful...... if the seminar was really terrible .... you could still use it as a bad example...... LOL :ultracool

:asian:

[Simon Curran]

I disagree, I believe that seminars can be very beneficial. These functions are good to go to keep an open mind and be introduced to different methods that are out there or just expanding on knowledge from a person more experienced in your own system.

They can also be used as a comparison as to what you are learning in your home studio. I have personally come away from many a seminar thanking the higher power for the personal teachers and system that I have had and have, it gave me a new appreciation for what and who I have trained with.

I never went to a seminar (or returned from one) thinking that my instruction "was not good enough". I did however, learn new ideas and differences as to how and what different people use as training drills, exercises, and philosophy.

All part of the "process" and chalk it all up to experience and exposure.

Remember, everything is useful...... if the seminar was really terrible .... you could still use it as a bad example...... LOL :ultracool

:asian:
I would also like to add, sir, that after the seminars I have attended, I have always had the "ping" feeling, as if an alternative explanation made the bricks fall into place

[Goldendragon7]

I would also like to add, sir, that after the seminars I have attended, I have always had the "ping" feeling, as if an alternative explanation made the bricks fall into place
Agreed!:) That too happens!!

[47MartialMan]

I disagree, I believe that seminars can be very beneficial. These functions are good to go to keep an open mind and be introduced to different methods that are out there or just expanding on knowledge from a person more experienced in your own system.

They can also be used as a comparison as to what you are learning in your home studio. I have personally come away from many a seminar thanking the higher power for the personal teachers and system that I have had and have, it gave me a new appreciation for what and who I have trained with.

I never went to a seminar (or returned from one) thinking that my instruction "was not good enough". I did however, learn new ideas and differences as to how and what different people use as training drills, exercises, and philosophy.

All part of the "process" and chalk it all up to experience and exposure.

Remember, everything is useful...... if the seminar was really terrible .... you could still use it as a bad example...... LOL :ultracool

:asian:
Kudos on the last line. but every seminar i walked away from I did so with a empty wallet and empty knowledge.

But, hey, please do not misconsture this as my gospel on not to attend.

And this phrase;
I guess, if one has time to attend a seminar, then they have less time to train at their school. As if they are saying "my school/teacher is good, but I have to learn more at this event cause they are not good enough?
I am paraphrase/quoting from friend on another debate with this subject.

[mj-hi-yah]

Kudos on the last line. but every seminar i walked away from I did so with a empty wallet and empty knowledge.

But, hey, please do not misconsture this as my gospel on not to attend.

And this phrase;
I guess, if one has time to attend a seminar, then they have less time to train at their school. As if they are saying "my school/teacher is good, but I have to learn more at this event cause they are not good enough?
I am paraphrase/quoting from friend on another debate with this subject. I think it's unfortunate that you did not get anything out of any of the seminars that you attended. I enjoy the fresh perspective at seminars, and find that I get out of it what I put into it. I think it is my responsibility to take the knowledge that is shown to me at a seminar and incorporate the things that work for me into my training. You need to work the stuff you learn, take notes, and video tape the seminars if you are permitted. If you are not allowed to video tape the presenter, you can video tape yourself doing the things that you learned as soon as you get home, and while they are fresh in your mind.

In terms of the implication that an instructor must not be good if the students need to attend seminars, I think it's just the opposite. I think it's the sign of an excellent teacher who looks to broaden and/or refine the experiences for his/her students. I would never look at this as a negative reflection on my instructor. He is awesome and open to these experiences for his students. Would you only ever read one book on martial arts because that's the one your instructor wrote? Probably not, and I see this as no different. Learning takes place in many arenas. If I can walk away from a seminar having learned at least one useful idea, technique, concept than in my opinion it was worth it. :asian:

[James Kovacich]

Kudos on the last line. but every seminar i walked away from I did so with a empty wallet and empty knowledge.

But, hey, please do not misconsture this as my gospel on not to attend.

And this phrase;
I guess, if one has time to attend a seminar, then they have less time to train at their school. As if they are saying "my school/teacher is good, but I have to learn more at this event cause they are not good enough?
I am paraphrase/quoting from friend on another debate with this subject.
Thats sad. I once attended a leglock seminar in a BJJ school and ended up being a regular student there for 3.5 years.

Maybe, before attending, you should do your research.

[47MartialMan]

Yeah, i did my research and excepted far more than was given

[Rich Parsons]

Nothing wrong with asking an instructor (or potential instructor) who, where, when, and how often. Photos alone don't mean a whole lot (and I am an advocate of taking photos...for your own memories if nothing else!) If the instructor has a number of photos with a big name, obviously over a span of years, in different settings, etc., that adds credibility.
It all comes down to personal integrity. My example- I have attended a handful of seminars with Dan Inosanto over a 10 year span. Can I claim to have studied with him- no; at best I can claim to have spent a few hours studying him. Good time, enhanced my understanding of what I do by means of a different perspective; saw a famous martial artist do his thing. Very positive, but not something on which to base teaching claims!

** The above post got me thinking about the following:

What about the instructors that then teach some seminars and then get all upset because you do not list them on your website as an instructor. For the people (* students *) who are not any good, this would not be an issue, as the seminar instructor would not wish to be associated with them. But there are some out there who will see someone making a push either through skill or marketing and then try to make claims that this person learned their system from them. When in truth it was in only one or two visits this person trained with them or at a seminar.

So is it possible to learn some concept or way of teaching or moving in these seminars that could open your mind, and thereby require you to give credit to the seminar instructor for his/her teachings?

[47MartialMan]

Sorry to sound so negative, I havent attended one seminar that gave me anything but take up my time and money..

[Simon Curran]

Sorry to sound so negative, I havent attended one seminar that gave me anything but take up my time and money..
I just think that sounds unfortunate, not necessarily negative, I have only attended a couple of seminars which I felt were a waste of time and money

[47MartialMan]

I guess it could be either I had too much knowledge than that of the seminar...or that the seminar was not advanced enough which perhaps I needed more time tih the promoter/instructor....or I should start my own seminars..:)

[Simon Curran]

or I should start my own seminars..:)
It's another possibility...

[47MartialMan]

Hey, I'm not boasting....every seminar that I had attended were a rip off to me....I guess close to 40 years experience and 8 styles/systems later, must account for something.

[Simon Curran]

Hey, I'm not boasting....every seminar that I had attended were a rip off to me....I guess close to 40 years experience and 8 styles/systems later, must account for something.
I wasn't accusing, sorry if it came across that way, and I would have thought that after 40 years of experience and 8 systems it would narrow down the scope of what you needed to take from a seminar as well.:asian:

[47MartialMan]

I wasn't accusing, sorry if it came across that way, and I would have thought that after 40 years of experience and 8 systems it would narrow down the scope of what you needed to take from a seminar as well.:asian:
Yes, I wasnt implying that you were implying anything. I am still learning, but a seminar is not the way to go for me. I guess because of the short time that they run 'em.

[Simon Curran]

Hey I think it is great that you still want to learn even after so much time in. (Not an age-ist joke by the way)
I hope you find what you are looking for though.

[47MartialMan]

I am really not "looking" per se'. But when something comes around that stirs my curiousity, I will check it out.

[Simon Curran]

:asian:

[47MartialMan]

"Curiousity Killed The Cat"...

but

"Satisfaction Brought Him Back"

"8 More Lives He Had Packed"

So I will still have the curiousity. :)