Thinking outside the box

[Rob_Broad]

How many people like to rip a self defense technique apart and see how many ways they can up with the same result. I know this is just a different way of loooking at the equation formula, but not everybody sees things the same way. How do you explain to others the idea of being able to insert, delete, prefix, suffix etc... if they can't see what you are saying in the beginning.

[Seig]

Before someone can learn to think outside the box, they must first realize they are IN a box. I make then do it until they are sick of it, then I make them do it until I am sick of them doing it. By the time they have done a technique so many times they begin to despise the motion, not only has it been ingrained, but it allows them to see outside of the technique through a more through understanding of it.

[Goldendragon7]

Ideal ~ what if ~ formulation

We teach the Ideal initially to learn movements, targets, weapons, coordination etc. which is Seig's point...... develop a strong foundation first!!!

WE THEN should progress to where Rob is to examine all the options we can and share those with a host of others to see if we missed anything.....

Finally we then realize through the prior efforts that we can formulate "on the spot" any number of different actions that would be successful!

That in lies the essence of training..

:asian:

[brianhunter]

mannnn dont even have to climb a mountain to get all this knowledge ;)

[Yari]

Originally posted by Goldendragon7

Ideal ~ what if ~ formulation

We teach the Ideal initially to learn movements, targets, weapons, coordination etc. which is Seig's point...... develop a strong foundation first!!!

WE THEN should progress to where Rob is to examine all the options we can and share those with a host of others to see if we missed anything.....

Finally we then realize through the prior efforts that we can formulate "on the spot" any number of different actions that would be successful!

That in lies the essence of training..

:asian:


I agree in the process, but not that it's the essence. But we don't have to agree, and maybe that's the essence... ;)




mannnn dont even have to climb a mountain to get all this knowledge

??? no mater what, you get knowledge, it's what you get, and how you choose to use it.


/Yari

[tonbo]

I agree with a lot of what's been said....

You have to have the foundation, and you should be REAL good friends with a technique before you start playing with it. Doing it over and over a couple of times is not gonna cut it.

Once you have the technique down, I think it is important to play with it. Prefix, suffix, rearrange, all the fun stuff. Have fun with it. Do it blindfolded, without moving your legs, left side only, right side only, all kinds of things.

One drill that I like to play with is this: take the technique, and come up with a counter for it (i.e., what you would do to counter the moves if someone were doing them on you). Make that into its own technique. Now practice that technique a few times to get it down. Now come up with a defense for that one.......

Do the techniques backwards. That's always good for some insight....;)

And yer right.....ya don't even have to climb a mountain for all this.....

Peace--

[Rob_Broad]

I started this thread so I could see that the people here are thinking individuals. We all convince ourselves we are open to the learning possibilities, but how manytimes times have we heard or even said that is not how I was taught the technique. I sometimes find a group of kenpo people who are supposed to be so open minded about self defense techniques to be the most closed minded group on the face of the planet.

[Rainman]

Originally posted by Bonehead

I started this thread so I could see that the people here are thinking individuals. We all convince ourselves we are open to the learning possibilities, but how manytimes times have we heard or even said that is not how I was taught the technique. I sometimes find a group of kenpo people who are supposed to be so open minded about self defense techniques to be the most closed minded group on the face of the planet.

If things violate the principles then things violate the principles. Sometimes things are wrong based on principles and concepts, I see this occasionally and I correct it if I can- about the right amount of testiness for me:) . I think some people here have really opened their minds and have realized opinions change with knowledge. :idunno: Just my two cents.

:asian:

[Seig]

If you really look hard, you'll notice something even more amazing. Yes, we may argue until the next ice age about a technique having a certain element to it, pro or con; but, if you look closely, we usually agree on the principle. We all travel different paths to the same road. Like I said to Mr. C in one of our conversations, when I first read Infinite Insights Vol1, I was furious. I was furious because I found out that all the things I have spent most of my life learning the hard way were already out there in print. Just when I think I have finally gotten a really firm grasp on something one of you gentleman comes along and shows me that I have mastered only a part of the concept and am frequently missing that othe half/ two thirds. I think that Martial Artist as a whole are both very open minded to new ideas but close minded to variations because of the fact that we drill a certain way 1000's of times and then "think" someone is telking us we have been doing it wrong for 10 years. Every one wants to stay true to Mr. Parker as best they can, but without him to stand over our shoulders and say "Atta boy, Johnie" we second guess ourselves and what he meant. :soapbox: Off

[Goldendragon7]

Kenpoists rely on the old lines....... "That's the way I was taught or that's NOT the way I was taught!" Well you can make either statement.... but move on..... and examine the options. The real question is does it work and from what perspective are you coming from. Many if not most of the techniques out there are good as long as they conform to principles of motion and the other Kenpo Tools.

Actually I have seen this more often than not and both are correct just altered slightly .... now if you want to discuss why all the alteration..... that is a different string....

Problem is ....... we are all at different levels and we need to realize that and talk to the other person on the lowest level or until they understand the other persons point of view.

Standardization was "NOT" a strong point of Ed Parker. He was too excited with all the options that one could use with this art to narrow it down and be "frozen in time" to only one delayed sword version! Thus he was always showing the most versatile of the Kenpo Tools the "Equation Formula".

We have not yet realized that Kenpo is a multi Leveled system. There is the first "beginner" level where the exact technique is not so important but rather to gain general movement and understandings of the system and tools. A get acquainted period if you will...... then move along to an intermediate level where structure and form start to develop more rapidly. Then on to and Advanced level where you go back and continue to upgrade your skills and improve both knowledge and physical prowess. Then on to Sage-ship.... where understanding sets in.....

:asian:

[Nightingale]

this thought is drilled into our heads:

TECHNIQUES ARE ONLY IDEAS.

we learn a lot of different techniques so we have a lot of different ideas engrained (sp?) in our muscle memory, hopefully to the point where we don't consciously choose which technique to use for that punch flying at our faces, because by the time the brain registers the need to react, the muscles have already chosen a course of action and reacted for you...then the brain catches up and goes "oh. I guess that works."

we don't deliberately dissect techniques to change them. we dissect them when we're learning, and then we just pick a partner and the instructor calls out an attack, and when you hear "left hand punch" you better react with SOMETHING or you're gonna get hit. These drills teach you to react, and generally you don't end up using a perfect "technique" you use parts of them, but normally you just react.

if you're in the street, you're not going to end up with a perfect studio attack, so you can't use a perfect studio defense. you need to adapt, and drills like the one above teach you to move first and think later, because if you take the time to think, you've just taken a moment to dig your own grave. If you're attacked, nobody's going to care if you did "Shield and Sword" perfectly. They're going to care that you walked away and the other guy didn't.

just my $0.02

[Goldendragon7]

That is exactly what you should do as well as constantly work on your power and accuracy! Great Job!

:asian:

[tonbo]

I will second what Nightingale said, with this analogy:

Remember that Kenpo is designed to work as an alphabet of motion.

When we learned how to spell, we learned to sound out words and to try to spell them from their sounds. We learned the letters and how they were arranged. We learned sentences and different ways to write them.

However, no one ever taught us how *we* should speak, write, or compose.

Once we learned the basics, each of us came up with our own "flair" and writing style. Some use big words, others are more direct and plain. Same with Kenpo. We learn the techniques as guidelines (and, yes, for belt promotions...hehe); we don't believe that we will use a technique exactly as it is written when confronted on the street.

Learn the techniques for what they are, AS they are. Play with them on your own. Get the concepts down that are being taught through the techniques. Once ya got that, *then* playtime comes....and it can be much more enjoyable that way.

Hehe....relying on "That's not the way *I* was taught" is a lot like saying, "Well, that's not the way my mom dressed *me*"......Your mileage *will* vary......

Peace--

[Nightingale]

yeah, that! hehe. Tonbo said it better, i think. :D

[Seig]

Originally posted by tonbo

comes....and it can be much more enjoyable that way.

Hehe....relying on "That's not the way *I* was taught" is a lot like saying, "Well, that's not the way my mom dressed *me*"......Your mileage *will* vary......

Peace--
........Or saying to someone,"You're Ugly and Mr. Parker taught YOU funny"

[Nightingale]

:rofl:

[tonbo]

........Or saying to someone,"You're Ugly and Mr. Parker taught YOU funny"

:rofl:

YEAH!! And your little dog, too!! (And the horse you rode in on!!)

:rofl:

Peace--

[Goldendragon7]

I know several that resemble that remark!

:asian:

[Klondike93]

The dog or the horse?


:asian:

[Eraser]

Greetings...

I have read all posts on this topic.. and I was just wondering.. yes its great to vary the tecnique (im sure there is more than one way to sheer a sheep) But do you also plan in the case where when you apply a move, wether it be a block, joint lock ect.. and the attacker doesn't react the same as the students do in the class room.. do you study countermoves for those instances.. What if a move or tecnique doesn't work???? Then What??

Just curious!!!

[Goldendragon7]

Originally posted by Eraser
Do you also plan in the case where when you apply a move, wether it be a block, joint lock ect.. and the attacker doesn't react the same as the students do in the class room.. do you study countermoves for those instances.. What if a move or tecnique doesn't work???? Then What??

Of Course, Eraser. We in American Kenpo have 3 Phases of the Art that we Study.
1) the "Ideal Phase", (the initial "Perfect" phase where we
execute the proper response and the opponent reacts
exactly as expected).
2) The "What If Phase", (the phase you are talking about where
you consider other possibilities that may alter the outcome of
the original movement.
3) The "Formulation" Phase where you are able to
extemporaneously execute actions based upon your prior
logical training.

That is what Makes Kenpo so Unique the fact that we use the White Dot System and consider all factors of the moment.
:asian:

[Seig]

There is also what I call the "Run like Hell" Phase.
Seriously, Mr. C would not steer you wrong. One of the things I teach people in my "introductory" courses is that your main objective is to get away relatively unharmed. Nail 'em and run.:asian:

[tonbo]

Hehe, Seig.....

We had an instructor that used to drill a phone number in our heads: the number for a pizza delivery service (Domino's). The reason that he did this is to remind us that, in a confrontation, we should be looking to get *out* of the situation. We should use what we need to in order to put our opponent down. Then we should call the pizza place and the police, so that we can get pizza delivered when the police arrive.

Yeah, it was a joke, but the point was to get to the place where you could actually *call* for pizza; i.e., get the hell out of there, don't stick around for heroics. Get 'em off you, and get out of the area.

An old roommate of mine, who was in the military, used to call that "Un-a**ing the area of operations" or "U-Aing the AO". Me, I referred to it as being skilled in the art of Nike-do. :D

And although I haven't used the pizza delivery service in years, I will always remember the phone number. It is 52*-333*. hehe. :D

Peace--

[Goldendragon7]

It's lunchtime here!

:rofl:

[Nightingale]

yeah, tonbo! you're making me hungry!

[tonbo]

Hey, I feel your pain.....

My lovely wife is taking me out for sushi tonight (Mmmmm....I could eat sushi every day!!!), in about 4 hours.......

Still have an hour to go at work and a couple of hours of stick practice at the studio to go.....and I can feel my tummy rumbling already.....:wah:

Ah, well. That which fails to kill us, only makes us stronger.

I'll order extra sushi in honor of you guys tonight. Deal?

:D

Peace--

[Seig]

I expect mine air shipped and delivered to me!

[Les]

Originally posted by Bonehead

how many times times have we heard or even said that is not how I was taught the technique.

I'm only 5 ft 2 ins tall, and there arent many techniques that I do the way I was taught them.

The "thinking outside the box" for me is when I have a student who is over 6 ft tall, and I have to teach a technique from his point of view. Longer reach, different angles, etc :)

Les

[Seig]

Kick 'em in the shin, they'll be at your level and will see things from your point of view.

[Nightingale]

hehe.

[Goldendragon7]

if that is true....... wouldn't it suck to be a proctologist!!:moon:

[tonbo]

:rofl:

Proctology may be a necessary profession, however.....

....What would inspire you to actually WANT to do that job??

And can you imagine what the trade publications are like? :eek:

Makes me glad that isn't my job. I have to deal with enough a$$ho**s every day as it is......:D

Peace--

[Seig]

and I specialize in removing people's heads from that part of their anatomy!:roflmao:

[ikenpo]

Originally posted by Goldendragon7

if that is true....... wouldn't it suck to be a proctologist!!:moon:

Actually, it would suck to be a proctologist that was a kiss ass!!!:rofl:

[Goldendragon7]

LIzzARD!:(

[ikenpo]

Originally posted by Goldendragon7

LIzzARD!:(

At least I didn't say it would suck to be a urologist that sucked!!!:shrug:

[Goldendragon7]

Jason ,,,,,,,, you need help
:rofl:

[ikenpo]

Originally posted by Goldendragon7

Jason ,,,,,,,, you need help
:rofl:

LOL....Gou been so busy in Russia and hasn't been around so somebody's gotta take up the slack...

jb:p

[Seig]

something like "It's a sh***y job but someone has to do it" or "It's a pain in the a**"

[Goldendragon7]

and stay there!!:moon:
:asian:

[Seig]

a helping hand up onto their feet, so you can kick them in the :moon:

[Klondike93]

I'm sensing an obsession with the booty here.....:eek:



:asian:

[Goldendragon7]

does thinking outside the box mean?

:confused:

[tonbo]

......that you are not just "following orders", but that you look at things differently, and try to see more ways than just the one to solve a problem.

You know the SGM Parker story about "lengthen your line"? *That* is thinking outside the box. Basically, it's like saying that there is more than one way to skin a cat.

Want another good example? See Star Trek: the movie and pay close attention to the parts where they talk about the "Kobayashi Maru" scenario......Capt. Kirk was the only one to have ever beaten it. And his "alternative" was a great example of "thinking outside the box".

That's just a couple of ways to say it, of course.....

:D

Peace--

[Goldendragon7]

Book 1 page 1 of the Infinite Insights series..... goes over the 3 points of view......... a valuable "Kenpo Tool" when analyzing anything it is important to view the topic from all angles inside outside sideways etc....... this will lead to greater understanding and a quality answer not just a "scratch the surface" guess.

:asian:

[Les]

Originally posted by tonbo

......See Star Trek: the movie and pay close attention to the parts where they talk about the "Kobayashi Maru" scenario......Capt. Kirk was the only one to have ever beaten it.

:D

Peace--

I'm not trying to upset you guys but.......

You do know that Star Trek isn't real, don't you?:)

Les

[Nightingale]

its not?!


And Kirk didn't "beat" the Kobayashi Maru. According to Star Trek II, the Wrath of Khan, he "beat" the scenario by reprogramming the simulaters. He didn't "beat" it. He cheated. However, since it WAS a solution that had never been tried before, StarFleet was amused and didn't expel him.

[Sigung86]

Originally posted by nightingale8472

its not?!


And Kirk didn't "beat" the Kobayashi Maru. According to Star Trek II, the Wrath of Khan, he "beat" the scenario by reprogramming the simulaters. He didn't "beat" it. He cheated. However, since it WAS a solution that had never been tried before, StarFleet was amused and didn't expel him.

Frankly, that is an incredibly wonderful example of thinking outside the box. Something totally unexpected ... It isn't always a matter of ethics, or right versus wrong ... Thinking outside the box is more a matter of making it work. That would be what the good Captain did... Even thinking in terms of right versus wrong can put you into a box. Just some thoughts to get myself in trouble with. :rofl:

Dan

[Nightingale]

Kobayashi Maru was set up to teach something. It was to teach students that sometimes you do find yourself in a no-win situation, and that it is a real possibility, and sometimes you just have to deal. It was vintage Kirk arrogance that he could not accept this and had to win at all costs. Sometimes, winning at all costs isn't winning, because in this case Kirk deprived himself of the opportunity to learn a valuable lesson... however, Kirk wasn't always the sharpest tool in the shed. Why in heaven's name would you beam your ENTIRE command crew down to a planet in a hostile situation? You've got Kirk, Spock, McCoy, Chekov, Sulu, and a few miscellaneous redshirts down on an enemy planet and the CHIEF ENGINEER running the ship.

Kirk didn't beat anything when he cheated during the Kobayashi Maru exercise. He was incapable of dealing with life the way it was, so he reprogrammed the parameters. The same philosophy could be applied to students cheating in school. Kirk proved his ability to cheat, he did NOT prove his ability to command. I know some students who if they put half the energy into studying that they put into figuring out ways to cheat, they'd be straight A students

I guess my point is that there are times to think outside the box. However, there are also times where you have to realize that the box is there for a reason.

[Sigung86]

I don't think society buys that Nightingale, not without some limitations, at any rate... A box for the box? :lol:

Dan

[Kirk]

A man lives on the 20th floor of an apartment building. If it is a rainy day, he gets into the elevator in the morning, goes down to the ground floor and goes off to work. In the afternoon when he comes home, he gets into the elevator and goes straight to the 20th floor. However, if it is a sunny day he goes down to the ground floor in the morning, but when he comes home he only goes up to the 10th floor and then walks up 10 flights of stairs. Why does he do this?

To answer correctly, you have to Think Outside The Box

[Yari]

Originally posted by Kirk

A man lives on the 20th floor of an apartment building. If it is a rainy day, he gets into the elevator in the morning, goes down to the ground floor and goes off to work. In the afternoon when he comes home, he gets into the elevator and goes straight to the 20th floor. However, if it is a sunny day he goes down to the ground floor in the morning, but when he comes home he only goes up to the 10th floor and then walks up 10 flights of stairs. Why does he do this?

To answer correctly, you have to Think Outside The Box

This is simple...

he's a migit, when it rains he uses an umbrella; for the rain, and to press the button ....


/Yari

ps. I have one for you if you want.

[Yari]

Originally posted by nightingale8472



I guess my point is that there are times to think outside the box. However, there are also times where you have to realize that the box is there for a reason.

I agree. The box isn't always a threat. Take a relatoinship. It's a kind of box, but I live joyfully in a great relationship.


/Yari

[Kirk]

Originally posted by Yari



This is simple...

he's a migit, when it rains he uses an umbrella; for the rain, and to press the button ....


/Yari

ps. I have one for you if you want.

You are correct, sir! Go right ahead, lemme have it!

[Yari]

Originally posted by Kirk



You are correct, sir! Go right ahead, lemme have it!

A snowy night a car comes home late, and parks in front of the house , beside another car. In the morning the person get's into the car , puts it in reverse and pulls out and drives off to work. The owner of the other car comes out and can't start the car. Why?

This is tricky. I use this to help people learn how to ask the correct questions. They get 10 questions to find the answer.
Most people when asking shoot off question with no concern as to were they are heading (reminds me of some of the MA's I've meet).

Give it a try.

/Yari

[Nightingale]

my guess would be that the information regarding the first car is totally irrelevant, and the second car would have not started anyway because of an entirely separate issue...

but that's only cause my brain is fried and I can't think of anything better....got home at 3:00 am last night cause my cat went into anaphalactic (sp) shock from a vaccine and I had to spend most of the night at the vet's office (he's fine, btw, but my wallet is $800 lighter) LOL.

[Sigung86]

Originally posted by nightingale8472

my guess would be that the information regarding the first car is totally irrelevant, and the second car would have not started anyway because of an entirely separate issue...

but that's only cause my brain is fried and I can't think of anything better....got home at 3:00 am last night cause my cat went into anaphalactic (sp) shock from a vaccine and I had to spend most of the night at the vet's office (he's fine, btw, but my wallet is $800 lighter) LOL.

I understand what you are saying. I would do the same thing for our critters.

Dan

[Yari]

Originally posted by nightingale8472

my guess would be that the information regarding the first car is totally irrelevant, and the second car would have not started anyway because of an entirely separate issue...


NOPE....

I glad that your cat is better. What about you, you OK after the scare?

/Yari

[Seig]

Originally posted by Yari



A snowy night a car comes home late, and parks in front of the house , beside another car. In the morning the person get's into the car , puts it in reverse and pulls out and drives off to work. The owner of the other car comes out and can't start the car. Why?

This is tricky. I use this to help people learn how to ask the correct questions. They get 10 questions to find the answer.
Most people when asking shoot off question with no concern as to were they are heading (reminds me of some of the MA's I've meet).

Give it a try.

/Yari
Becasue the first guy came out, realized he had left his lights on and stole the beattery from the car next to him.:ninja:

[Yari]

Originally posted by Seig


Becasue the first guy came out, realized he had left his lights on and stole the beattery from the car next to him.:ninja:

This probably says more about you :D

So i wouldn't be parking my car next to yours :rofl:

No offence....


/Yari

[Seig]

No...Battery...yes:roflmao:

[Yari]

Originally posted by Seig

No...Battery...yes:roflmao:

:p :p :p :p

/YAri

[Seig]

I would at least offer you aride as you seem to have a dead battery:rofl:

[Yari]

Domoarigato...........


:cool:

/Yari

[Nightingale]

Originally posted by Yari



NOPE....

I glad that your cat is better. What about you, you OK after the scare?

/Yari

Yep. All parties involved are well and accounted for. The critter is doing just fine and has his paw in my fishtank at the moment. He's lucky the shark isn't dumb enough to get caught, because I don't think the cat would know what to do with it if he got it.

[Goldendragon7]

Man, you better invest in a life insurance policy and get a few more than 9 lives for the little critter .......... he's playing with danger!!!!!!!!! shark geezzzzzzzzzzz no fear that darn cat!!

:rofl:

[Nightingale]

well, the shark is only three inches long, so I doubt it would do a whole lot of damage to the kitty. Its too big to be eaten, but small enough to be played with, I guess. My cat, however, is obviously not the sharpest tool in the shed. He got his face stuck in a water glass not too long ago, and when he was little managed to fall in the toilet and close the lid. He is a cat of very little brain and very much energy, which is an amusing, albeit troublesome, combination.

Kitty and company are still doing fine. His fur is starting to grow back from where he had his little IV. He still looks confused every time he's grooming and gets to that spot. He stops and looks at me like he's saying "I know this ain't right...I's supposed to have fur here!"

[Les]

Originally posted by Goldendragon7

Man, you better invest in a life insurance policy and get a few more than 9 lives for the little critter .......... he's playing with danger!!!!!!!!! shark geezzzzzzzzzzz no fear that darn cat!!

:rofl:


I just wondered....

If you take out life insurance for a cat do you have to pay the premium nine times?

Les

[Goldendragon7]

How many sides to a triangle?

:asian:

[Turner]

I'd say that there are 5 sides to a triangle. |> You have the side that faces 9 o'clock, the side that faces 1:30, the side that faces 4:30... these are the 3 from the 2 dimensional aspect. (Height and width) if you also look at the 3rd Dimension (depth) you have the front and back.

[Seig]

Originally posted by Goldendragon7

How many sides to a triangle?

:asian:
From first person, second person or third person point of view?

[Goldendragon7]

8

the three sides....... inside (3) and outside (3).... Topside (1).... bottom side (1)....

:asian:

[cdhall]

Originally posted by Goldendragon7

8

the three sides....... inside (3) and outside (3).... Topside (1).... bottom side (1)....

:asian:

Uh, sir. That would be 10 if you count inside and outside.

3 outside "sides"
1 outside "top"
1 outside "bottom"
3 inside "sides"
1 inside "top"
1 inside "bottom"
= 10.
:asian:

[Seig]

Doug,
I could be wrong, I usually am; but I think a major point was just made here. You may have seen my quip about three person views, I know Mr C picked up on it, as he brought my attention to it before. There is no 100% correct answer to that question, as everyone that looks at it will see it from their own perspective. With each individual havng his own perspective, the answer will change. So it also is with Kenpo.

[Turner]

Good, then that means that I'm still right!

Doug

[Goldendragon7]

:D

[Seig]

Originally posted by Turner

Good, then that means that I'm still right!

Doug
Of course you are! That was my point!

[Turner]

Of course I am, I always am.

Doug

[Yari]

take four stones and place them in a shape of a circle....


/Yari

[Les]

Originally posted by Turner

I'd say that there are 5 sides to a triangle. |> You have the side that faces 9 o'clock, the side that faces 1:30, the side that faces 4:30... these are the 3 from the 2 dimensional aspect. (Height and width) if you also look at the 3rd Dimension (depth) you have the front and back.


8


Uh, sir. That would be 10 if you count inside and outside.

None of these answers are how Mr Parker explained how many sides triangles had to me :confused:

Les

[Sigung86]

Originally posted by Les



None of these answers are how Mr Parker explained how many sides triangles had to me :confused:

Les


This is not one of those "That's not how Mr. Parker showed me to do it." Jokes ... Is it?:(

Dan

[Nightingale]

<quote from somewhere else>

Question: how many kenpoists does it take to screw in a lightbulb?

Answer: one hundred. One to screw in the bulb and 99 to say "that's not how Mr. Parker showed me how to do it!"



hehe...not meant to offend anyone...it made me chuckle, so I passed it along. you all know I love all of you. :)

[tonbo]

.....sorry....I was out last week while attending a week-long training session (computers!!)......

Yeah, I know Star Trek is fictional. I am not an obsessed fan. I also know that Kirk didn't really "beat" the scenario, and that he cheated. However.....

The Kobayashi Maru scenario (and many like it, in the real world) was indeed designed to teach that there are sometimes situations where you can't win. That's a given. However, Kirk's response was also a good "teaching": There are always those that refuse to believe in a no-win situation. To continue using the Star Trek analogy, there is a Klingon saying: "There are ALWAYS weapons".....meaning there is always a chance, no matter how slight.

Lemme reiterate here.....NO, I am not a total Trek-head...I have a life....but I have read a lot of the Klingon stuff. I kinda like them--they're fun.

Anyway.....thinking outside the box is always a lot like the refusal to give up. Sometimes, you gotta ignore what the "rules" are of the situation, and try something outrageous. The obvious answers ain't always the *right* ones......

And here's a "teaser", since a couple of others have been flying around......

A cowboy rides into town on Monday. He stays in town for two days, and then rides out on Monday. How?

Stupid, maybe....but it's one of the shorter ones I know..;)

Peace--

[Les]

Originally posted by tonbo


And here's a "teaser", since a couple of others have been flying around......

A cowboy rides into town on Monday. He stays in town for two days, and then rides out on Monday. How?

Could it be that his horse is called Monday?????

[Yari]

Originally posted by Les



Could it be that his horse is called Monday?????

I didn't think of that. Great!!!! I was thinking time zones, space warps, but of course the name of the horse!!! Great thinking!!!!!

/Yari

[tonbo]

Yep, you got it. Nice thinking....:)

Here's another fun way to mess with people's minds:

Tell them that you are going to ask them a series of questions, and that they should respond as quickly as possible. Then ask them the following questions:

1) What is the "monster" that is associated with Halloween and says "Boo"? (Ghost)

2) The person who is holding a party is called the .....? (Host)

3) A particular kind of meat, usually slow cooked, is called Pot...? (Roast)

Now that you have your trap set, spring it....:

4) What do you put in a toaster?

More often than not, the answer will be "Toast". However, that's not right. You put BREAD in a toaster--you get toast *out*. :)

Another good one, along the same lines: Ask someone the following, spelling the hyphenated words out.....

"If M-A-C-I-N-T-O-S-H spells 'Macintosh', and M-A-C-I-N-T-Y-R-E spells 'MacIntyre', then what does M-A-C-H-I-N-E spell?"

Laugh at them when they reply "MacHine". :)

Most times, these will work on people.....you get their mind headed in a certain way, and they follow it.

Plus, you get to have some fun at their expense......hehe.....

Peace--

[Goldendragon7]

You are driving along in your car on a wild, stormy night. You pass by a bus stop, and you see three people waiting for the bus:

1. An old lady who looks as if she is about to die.
2. An old friend who once saved your life.
3. The perfect man (or) woman you have been dreaming about.

There can only be one passenger in your car and you can't return to the bus stop once you have left it. Which one would you choose to offer a ride?

Think before you continue reading. This is a moral/ethical dilemma that was once actually used as part of a job selection process so your future could depend on how you answer this question.

You could pick up the old lady, because she is ill, and thus you could save her first; or you could take the old friend because he once saved your life, and this could be the perfect chance to pay him back. However, you may never be able to find your perfect partner again.

The candidate who was hired (out of 200 applicants) had no trouble coming up with his answer.

WHAT DID HE SAY?
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He answered: "I would give the car keys to my old friend, and let him take the old lady to the hospital. I would stay behind and wait for the bus with the woman of my dreams."

The moral of the story is that we can gain more if we are able to give up our stubborn thought limitations and "Think Outside of the
Box."

A great solution to a ticklish problem.

:asian:

[Yari]

Originally posted by Goldendragon7


A great solution to a ticklish problem.

:asian:

Yes, what a great answer! I loved it.

/Yari

ps. the answer to my "thinking out of the box" was that the other perosn parks the car with the front into the wall, therefor the cold didn't "freeze" the motor.

[Goldendragon7]

I liked the story as well.

:asian: