I did this in the Southern forum, so lets see if we can get a list of Northern Systems in here....

Northern Mantis would be one, we could even go further than that and list the actual styles of mantis such as 7 star, 8 step, wah lum, plum blossom.

7sm

Well, as the little blurb on the main page says, there's Long Fist. That's what I've been studying -- "northern Shaolin long fist kung fu" according to a handout we got when we started. That's always sounded kind of vague to me, but that's what we were told it was.

True, True.

7sm

Northern Mantis would be one, we could even go further than that and list the actual styles of mantis such as 7 star, 8 step, wah lum, plum blossom.
Don't forget Liuhe Tang Lang ;)


Well, as the little blurb on the main page says, there's Long Fist. That's what I've been studying -- "northern Shaolin long fist kung fu" according to a handout we got when we started. That's always sounded kind of vague to me, but that's what we were told it was.
There are many, many long fist styles... FWIW. I know the tan tui clip I posted up on the other thread is from the Islamic long fist style... which has nothing to do with Shaolin. (Sorry Dronak, I have not been able to dig up the songs relating to it that I mentioned before.)

Too many northern styles to list... so I'll just thorw out some of my personal favorites :


Taijiquan
Baguazhang
Xingyiquan
Mizongquan
Piguazhang
Bajiquan

... to name but a few (not to mention all of thier respective branches).




jm

Yeah, I bet there are a lot of long fist styles. Unfortunately, I really don't have anything more specific to give as a description. What we do does seem to be very close to what's in the Yang and Bolt book on Shaolin long fist and over in the Video Exchange thread, I think I put a link to a page written by someone who learned from the same teacher that our teacher did. Those are probably the two things closest to what I've been doing that I know of. I haven't been able to find much else. Well, there was one other site, but it seemed to move between about three URLs and it doesn't look like any of them are up right now.

Internal styles like tai chi are considered northern styles? I didn't know that. I guess they did have to originate somewhere, I just didn't know they were also classified as either northern or southern.

As for the tan tui, I've read some history on it and I know it's not Shaolin, but derived from somewhere else. Most places say Muslims were the source and one site I just found says that's Islamic/Israeli, so it matches what you're saying. It does seem to be popular among northern style practicioners. Does tan tui count as its own style?

Yeah, I bet there are a lot of long fist styles. Unfortunately, I really don't have anything more specific to give as a description. What we do does seem to be very close to what's in the Yang and Bolt book on Shaolin long fist and over in the Video Exchange thread, I think I put a link to a page written by someone who learned from the same teacher that our teacher did. Those are probably the two things closest to what I've been doing that I know of. I haven't been able to find much else. Well, there was one other site, but it seemed to move between about three URLs and it doesn't look like any of them are up right now.

The Nanjing Kuoshu Institute I think is where the Yang Northern Shaolin comes from.


Internal styles like tai chi are considered northern styles? I didn't know that. I guess they did have to originate somewhere, I just didn't know they were also classified as either northern or southern.

Yep... North of the Yellow River... :wavey:


As for the tan tui, I've read some history on it and I know it's not Shaolin, but derived from somewhere else. Most places say Muslims were the source and one site I just found says that's Islamic/Israeli, so it matches what you're saying. It does seem to be popular among northern style practicioners. Does tan tui count as its own style?
Tan Tui is thought to have come from the Hui Muslim minority in China. It teaches basic long fist principles & body alignment in a complete unit & set. Tan Tui was at one time a complete system with a couple of sets, one or two weapon sets & a paired set. Now most people just do the roads. 10 Road is considered the "orthodox Muslim" or original set. 12 Road is Jingmo / Shaolin.

That other web page I mentioned is http://www.geocities.com/yunhsinyoung/ for reference. Looking at that site again, I think you're probably right. The intro and history pages both mention the Central Chinese Martial Arts Institute in Nang-Jing. It looks like other styles and forms are also taught, probably at higher levels, but it would appear that the basics of the long fist we've been doing trace back to the institute in Nang-Jing as you thought. That's useful to know.

Hmm, if the 12 road version of tan tui is considered Shaolin style, I wonder why we learned a 10 road version. Maybe our line was trying to stay as close as possible to the original forms, so they didn't adopt the 12 line version when it was developed? *shrug* It's always interesting to learn about the differences though.

If what you have leraned is in any way associated with Dr. Yang and the YMAA that could be some of the cause of confusion. I "think" the tan tui version that Yang Jwing-Ming teaches is also 10 roads and it looks very similar to the 10 road version we've been discussing. Dr. Yang referres to just about everything he does as "Shaolin" for some strange reason. Even the Yang and Bolt book on "Shaolin" long fist contains more forms from other systems than from Shaolin :p "Shaolin" just seems to be a term that he really enjoys using :idunno:


http://www.yangsandover.com/videos.shtml?page=tantui1
http://www.yangsandover.com/videos.shtml?page=tantui2
http://www.yangsandover.com/videos.shtml?page=tantui3


jm

Well, I haven't exactly tried to trace Dr. Yang's lineage to see whether or not it goes back to one of the same teachers in our line as I know it. Considering the apparent similarities between what I've seen of his stuff and know of our stuff, it's possible that we do have a common teacher somewhere down the line. But I think he does 12 road tan tui:

http://store.yahoo.com/ymaa/shaollonfisk2.html
http://store.yahoo.com/ymaa/shaollonfisk7.html

IIRC, the first few routines are pretty similar in both the 10 and 12 road versions. It's later on in the sequence that the routines start to diverge. That video of Han performing tan tui is essentially what we learned, maybe with a few fairly minor differences. Since our line derives from Han according to the info on the web page linked above, I suppose that's to be expected.

As for the inclusion of non-Shaolin stuff, well, if you look at the link I gave above, you'll see that there are forms from other systems in there, too. For example, it lists Kao Chuan as Hong Jia in the "other" section of barehand forms; we were taught that one and told it wasn't exactly long fist, but was similar in style. I could be wrong, but this didn't seem all that unusual to me. And IIRC, in the Yang and Bolt book, when the forms aren't exactly Shaolin, he does say something to that effect. And it think it's only the last two of the five forms that aren't exactly Shaolin because we were taught the first three (Linking Step, Power First, First Ambush) and they're all listed as long fist forms on that other web page. So it's not more than half, but almost half. :) Maybe Yang does call more things "Shaolin" than he should though. I don't really know enough about what exactly is or isn't real Shaolin style to say.

BTW, if this is drifting too far off the topic of listing northern styles, I suppose we can break it off into a new thread or continue it in one of the othre threads where we were talking about tan tui and such.

Mizong-Lohan (Way of the lost wandering monk is what I think it means, Shaolin Based)

Northern Eagle Claw (Never heard of a southern version, but I learn one called Northern)

Elephant Style (Style that Northern Eagle Claw is originally based on, not sure it even still exists)

Tan Tui is its own style, along with being incorporated into countless other styles as well.

My father tells me that I am a good-hearted person, but it is my temper that ruins me. Can anyone suggest how I can train to calm my temper and nurture my good-heart ? thanks,

My father tells me that I am a good-hearted person, but it is my temper that ruins me. Can anyone suggest how I can train to calm my temper and nurture my good-heart ? thanks,
Southern Crane, you allready have a thread for this specific question, lets leave this discussion on topic and keep your question in your specific thread.
Thank you

7sm
Adam C
MT Senior Mod

how about lung shou pai? i know dragon isnt a popular northern system, but its northern none the less. also tien shan pai(heavenly mountain fist)

i noticed a few of you guys had listed mizong, or lost track as ive heard it referred to as. seems like a very interesting system after reading up on it alittle. do any of you practice this system. i'd like to know more about it

Some of what I do is Mizong, at least as far as I'm told. Being more of a Tai Chi person, I don't pay as much attention in the Kung-Fu classes to know which techniques/forms are Mizong and which are Shaolin or Eagle Claw.

From what I do know, a lot of the forms for Saolin and beginning Eagle Claw are the same for Mizong. However, there are always differences in the Mizong version, for example crane stance has the lifted foot about a foot in front of the knee of the standing foot, while Eagle Claw has the lifted foot about an inch in front of the knee.

The forms that have both a Shaolin and Mizong version, the Mizong version always seems more difficlut to perform.

I don't really train in mizong at all... although I've played with a little bit of it. My teacher knows it quite well and teaches it. So I get to see it trained and taught as well as being on the receiving end of it from time to time. It's really crazy stuff. The idea seems to be to do whatever is "least" expected and it's full of tricks and deceptions. Wacky, one could almost say. I've heard the phrase several times about mizong, "If you don't know where your going neither will your opponent." Although there are "forms" in the system... randomness is encouraged :)


You can read a bit about it here if you like:
http://www.plumpub.com/info/knotebook/boxlosttrack.htm



jm

thanks jm, that page had some very good stuff. definitley an interseting sytem, with a unique philosophy.

Off subject, just replying to what j_m put. I do stuff like that, you know just do what ever comes out. But I put a twist on it. Before, during and at random intervals start saying shouting at my opponent. Why, you may ask? Simple. Old Celtic saying: "a fight is not lost by the smaller opponent, or the larger, or the lighter, or the heavier, or the less skilled, or the more skilled. The idiot who makes the first mistake loses a fight. How is the best why to get your opponent to make a mistake? Get them to think less about what your body is doing. What is the best way to do this? Make sound". So there you go, making sound that your opponent doesn't understand is probly the best fake in the world. And if any one wants to argue with me, go ahead, but that doesn't mean i'm going to reply. And if you wonder what I shout, any thing. Names of forms, tai chi movements, Pakua movements, Chinese words, Vietnamese words, Japanese words, any thing. It’s kinda funny to see a dude that is almost a black belt getting his but kicked by someone with about half his rank. Of course now I have just given away my secret to how I kick Chris’s but. Sae la vie, I suppose.



Sweet Brighit Bless your Blade,



John

i find
http://shaolin.com
a good reference of the history of all northern styles
especially those that originated in shaolin

I'm a student of Master Yang's in Boston's YMAA Headquarters.

The Northern Long Fist curricullum including our 12 Tan Tui set we train in YMAA are from both Ching Woo and Nanjing Koushu Institute.

Some of the Long Fist forms we do traces back to Chin Woo and some traces back to Nanjing. Our Long Fist comes from Han Ching Tan who taught Li Mao Ching who in turn taught Yang Jwing Ming.

I had a conversation with Master Yang of which Long Fist forms came from Ching Woo and which came from Nanjing a year or 2 ago. I didn't write them down trying to keep mental notes but that didn't help not writing them down as I forgot now.:confused:

Anyways, I'm gonna ask him again when he returns back to Boston and this time I'm gonna write them down.

Actually, there are 2 forms from the Long Fist curricullum that more came from Li Mao Ching which are the 2 Mantis forms we do, Xiao Hu Yuan and Beng Bu. These 2 are not from Han Ching Tan but from Li Mao Ching passing them on to Master Yang himself. Li Mao Ching next to having studied Long Fist under Han Ching Tan, learned Praying Mantis (not sure which style) and various other Chinese systems. The rest of our Long Fist is from Han Ching Tan.

Adam Hsu was a classmate of Li Mao Ching so when you see Adam Hsu do Long Fist, it's the same as ours. Adam Hsu also studied various other Chinese systems aside from Long Fist as well.

Meihuazhuang
Bei Shaolin
Tieh Lohan
Tai Tzu Chang Chuan
5 Animals
Mei Hua Tang Lang

Many more...

Hey weeping palm, Lung Ying is also considered a southern system/not just northern.

For a list theres The yuhuan tang lang, mimen tang lang, washboard mantis, secret door mantis, and quite a few others I cant think of right now.


Hey Mei Hua! wow, you even post here too.
Hows it going?



take care,
Chang

Hey Mei Hua! wow, you even post here too.
Hows it going?



take care,
Chang

Hey bro, yeah I get around :)

Alright its great to see you posting here, youll definately have quite a bit to offer.

Ill also see you have an account at Martial arts planet (man, you werent kidding you really do get around) how do you have time to post, you must be a typing master.


Anyways its great to read your posts.




take care,
Chang

Alright its great to see you posting here, youll definately have quite a bit to offer.

Ill also see you have an account at Martial arts planet (man, you werent kidding you really do get around) how do you have time to post, you must be a typing master.


Anyways its great to read your posts.




take care,
Chang
LOL, a laptop is worth it's weight in gold, I go around to my contracts, work some magic, deal with some BS, actually do some hardcore physical work and in the meantime keep myself occupied with training and talkning on forums( suppose I should find something better to do in my free time outside of working/training/fighting/my girl/ but egh...what are you going to do?)

I hear ya Mei Hua,

Im about the same, any excuse I can find and im either training or trying to learn something from Martial Arts forums. Its definitely worth the time.



take care,
Chang