Discovered ultimate MA !

[Autocrat]

Hi all.... recently out and about looking for training...... and a friend pointed out a small club, with the following advertised!

Do you want to learn selfdefence?
Do you want to know you can handle a situation?
Do you feel that you would be better able to do so knowing the following;

general punching, hand an arm strikes,
basic and advanced kicking techniques,
parry, block, evasion and absorbtion techniques,
grappling, locks, holds, chokes, throws,
Pressure point, vitals, alrms etc.
utilising weapons,
tackling and disarming armed opponents,
realistic combat techniques,
facing off and copmbating multiple opponents,
understanding the mental and emotional sides of confrontation and violence,

and all come in an easy to learn and practical system for teaching all of the above,





It's called karate!
LOL

Sorry, couldn't resist.... a friend dumped a load of books on me, thinks about systema, krav maga, or any other "wonder idea"..........

Most of these things are so similar it's unbelievable..... lookkk at the gracie jiujitsu spin.... if you combine judo and kickboxing, thats the result.... half the stances are straight from KB...... all these things take from their predecessors.... so whats all the fuss about!

So again, I apologise!
This is not an attack upon any style, system or school of combatt, training, MA or philosophy/way/do.... merely a giggle at the majority of people that fall for the hype and spin!

[terryl965]

Yea so what is your point: This has been around for Centurys. Everybody want to reinvent the wheel.

[MisterMike]

Not necessarily reinventing, but pulling what they think works from certain systems and branding it their own.

[Sin]

Just like the weel, the human body for the most part the same every where you go.

there is a Style out there for everyone...but NEVER is there a style that can beat all styles.

[Paul B]

general punching.......tackling and disarming armed opponents...........easy to learn

These points alone set me giggling!

[Knifehand]

Yea so what is your point: This has been around for Centurys. Everybody want to reinvent the wheel.
not to over simplify, but that constant look for what really works is called evolution.

[terryl965]

not to over simplify, but that constant look for what really works is called evolution.Evolution, not to simplified anything. the Martial Art have been around for century every decade there are new people saying I found the lost art of so and so, the truth is the lost art was never lost. The inner strenght was mis placed for a time and then refound by some instructor that made a visit to some far off place and found what has never been lost.

[Knifehand]

what i was getting at was that Martial Arts will eventually evolve. People put down people making their own styles, but that is exactly what happend when the shaolin monks created shaolin, they created their own style. then styles evolved to include weapons. People mix and match good ideas and eventually come up with a really good style. Not saying that there are styles that are really bad. But there may be some style one day that trumps others.

If you've seen Equilibrium, There was a MA called the GunKotta. As the name implies, its a MA with Guns. Obviously, the idea was nice, but it was impractical, but its a new idea.

If you stand still on a highway, you are likely to get run over, unless you start moving.

[Cruentus]

If you've seen Equilibrium, There was a MA called the GunKotta. As the name implies, its a MA with Guns. Obviously, the idea was nice, but it was impractical, but its a new idea.


I'm not sure what "gun Kata" (Gunkotta) is, but this made me chuckle.

We just implimented gun training as a stable of the TULISAN Tactical Training Instructors Gild, as firearms are a major component of the close quarter fray. And I'd say, it's ah, well....pretty practical... :uhyeah:

[jdam76]

you have obviously never taken Brazilian Jiu jitsu because its absolutely nothing like combining kickboxing and judo.

[MichiganTKD]

These advertisements work because people are scared and want to try to have every base covered. Part of it is gullibility. Certain segments of the population see an ad touting a style purporting to include every style of combat (kicks, punches, blocking, takedowns, joint locks, throws etc.) and decide it MUST be the miracle style that does everything. Other people are simply scared. They want to be able to defend themselves, don't really know what to do, see these ads, and want to make sure they have all bases covered. The charlatans who put out these ads take full advantage of these people, knowing full well they don't know good from bad. Especially after 9/11, it is very easy to take advantage of people's paranoia about being victims and promise them ""The Ultimate Solution for Self Defense."
If you spread your energy over all these different aspects, how would you possibly be any good anyway? I'd be more afraid of someone who focused his energies into just a few techniques, but has mastered them.

[Flatlander]

I look at this as a straight up marketing technique. I think that there is a sense among some martial artists that the re-creation and/or re-organization of combative systems is a natural extension of their "ownership" of their movement. I think that there are positive AND negative aspects to this. Primarily, I am troubled by the lack of standardization. To elaborate, I feel that one of the important ingredients driving this trend is the lack of understanding among potential martial art students with regard to the differences between arts, as well as their inability to effectively judge the quality of instruction. The proliferation of new grandmasters, professors, masters, and newly reformatted arts has become a self - feeding machine, adding to the confusion and lack of standardization.

I don't personally find a problem with advanced practitioners realizing ownership of their movement, understanding the ways that they are unique, or organizing things so as to better understand themselves. I do, however, think that when they decide to go out and propagate "their way", they are making a rather pompous assumption. Who are you to suppose that I am not able to achieve the same level of understanding by studying the same way you have? If Mr. Professor new Grandmaster was able to achieve their level of martial excellence by following the path that they have, does the possibility not exist that I may too? Furthermore, I must conclude that the reformatting of other systems must necessarily involve the removal of concepts and techniques from their respective curriculae. I don't find that to be particularly wise. When you remove some pieces, the puzzle is never the same....

Finally, it seems to me that this is all rather unscientific. If Professor new Grandmaster really believes that they are that excellent and refined in their skills, then the logical deduction is that by following the path and training regime that they have, excellence and refinement may follow, with time. It does not follow that by practicing a different training regime that excellence and refinement will follow. That is illogical, and presumptive. If I were to travel a specific road and arrive at a particular destination, that doesn't mean I know any other way to get there. Were I to take you there one day, the most likely course would be the one I've travelled before....

That's what I figure anyhow.

[Autocrat]

oops... sem to have upset some... sorry, wasn't intentional... merely pointing out the humour of what I perceive as silly!

Saying that... time to respond!

... Knifehand ...
Sorry to disapoint, yet there are training regimes for gun users that are basically kata.... what was said in the film is actually true! There are strong tendencies for people to tak certain positions and perticular angles of fire that are more likely to be effective..... look at the training for the special forces, such as the SAS.... all their training points to common factors in such situations! It is real!

... jdam76 ...
Very sorry, but I said that from looking... but considering I spent Saturday traing with Royce, I will most definetly stand by my statement! The movement, the footwork, the shielding of the body so as to close with the opponent... definently KB or B.... the throws, takedowns, holds etc... same as Judo, ( or that family, inc. Jiu jitsu and aikido!).
Sorry if that offends.

... MichiganTKD ...
Not sure if I agree with that or not..... those that specialise in a few techniques and master them will be highly effective.... up to a point, then they will be lost against something new to them! Where as someone who has cross trained and picked up bits of everything has a better chance of low level survival in genereal..... both have pro's and con's!
I pressume the best method would be to learn a bit of everything, then specialise in a few techniques you prefer.... wouldn't you agree?

... Flatlander ...
Damned insightful post! Not sure about the ownership thing.... I assume thats just read differently than intended... I don't think anyone owns a technique.... but maybe that wasn't what was meant?
Still, everything else was about perfect! Brilliant analogy!


Still, though I meant this as a joke, I seriously belove there should be laws towards this sort of thing..... anyone, and I do mean anyone, can set up a club, a foundation, association etc..... you dfon't need to be trained or qualified etc. Furthermore, there are no truely independant bodies governing this at all.... I could set up a club and advertise it as the best form of self defence with innovative training methods, new techniques, secrets reveiled etc.... it's all bull!
Sod the hype! It should all be honest... I do my style because of what it is, not because of what is advertised! The amount of clubs I've visited, and then walked out of within 10 minutes because it was pants.... yet they have atleast 20 odd members paying 5 per hour minimum, who don't know anybetter, and could do alot better else where!

Does anybody else have these concerns, or is it just me?

[traz]

there will always be ads like that, because the general public will never fully understand martial arts. There will always be people who believe that all they need is a few lessons and they will be able to fend off a gang of attackers like whoa.

It doesn't only apply to martial arts...its no different than the "lose 2 pounds a day" ads, or the "grow all your hair back in a day" ads. People want fast, amazing results, and many people are willing to buy into someone advertising that they can do it.

[jjmcc]

No disrespect but i don't understand how anyone can say that karate is a form of self defence. its a sport in my eyes they drop there hands to block kicks for gods sake. in a real life situation when your hand drops down to block an initial low punch or kick you have a sharp impliment in your neck or face i don't understand why any martial arts will do that is that not what your legs are also for apart from kicking and running away if you have the chance.

[Flatlander]

Not sure about the ownership thing.... I assume thats just read differently than intended... I don't think anyone owns a technique.... but maybe that wasn't what was meant?


Sorry about that. To clarify, by ownership what I mean is that one has a firm enough grasp of their technique that it becomes a part of their natural movement. It is no longer a "technique", but a response. Is that more clear, or have I refoggified?

Otherwise, thank you. :asian:

[Flatlander]

No disrespect but i don't understand how anyone can say that karate is a form of self defence. its a sport in my eyes they drop there hands to block kicks for gods sake. in a real life situation when your hand drops down to block an initial low punch or kick you have a sharp impliment in your neck or face i don't understand why any martial arts will do that is that not what your legs are also for apart from kicking and running away if you have the chance.I have seen well trained karatekas move in ways that strongly discouraged me from wanting to test their limits. Might I reccommend you do a bit more research before you finalize your opinion on the matter?

[Paul B]

Refoggified? :lol: Can I steal that?


Ditto on the Karateka thing. Go check out a Kyokushinkai Dojo and get back to us.:) Those guys are nuts! (in a good way)

[Knifehand]

Refoggified? :lol: Can I steal that?


Ditto on the Karateka thing. Go check out a Kyokushinkai Dojo and get back to us.:) Those guys are nuts! (in a good way)
bump....

[An Eternal Student]

No disrespect but i don't understand how anyone can say that karate is a form of self defence. its a sport in my eyes they drop there hands to block kicks for gods sake. in a real life situation when your hand drops down to block an initial low punch or kick you have a sharp impliment in your neck or face i don't understand why any martial arts will do that is that not what your legs are also for apart from kicking and running away if you have the chance.

Im not sure where you're getting that from.Most Karate-ka are just as likely to block a kick with their knee as with their hands.And when they do block with their hands they usually still have one hand up to guard and have moved off the centre-line.Anyone who's ever had their foot caught by a Karate-ka will not dispute how vunerable you are when they catch you.

[Knifehand]

POV POV POV.... point of view point of view point of view. You see people drop their guards when they kick.... maybe its a bad habit... but SD isn't just about about fighting. Its about confidence, thinking clearly, and making good choices. Fighting is a last resort, or atleast it should be.

and Finally...

the liklihood that someone would actually use a side kick or a front kick in a fight is slim to nill... and if you do, i'm sorry for you (no offense to any style that says otherwise...)

This site has language, violence and beatings=Adult content... this is to show how people actually fight nowadays...if you didn't already know...

http://www.pbnation.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=838757 (http://www.pbnation.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=838757)

[jjmcc]

Refoggified? :lol: Can I steal that?


Ditto on the Karateka thing. Go check out a Kyokushinkai Dojo and get back to us.:) Those guys are nuts! (in a good way)
Thanks i checked out a couple of there sites and i have to say i was a little shocked. Which leads me to apologise for my recent outburst i think i still think of my experiences of karate classes when i was very young. But i still dont understand why anyone will drop there hands to block a low strike when you have your legs and knees there to do the same job?

[Knifehand]

Thanks i checked out a couple of there sites and i have to say i was a little shocked. Which leads me to apologise for my recent outburst i think i still think of my experiences of karate classes when i was very young. But i still dont understand why anyone will drop there hands to block a low strike when you have your legs and knees there to do the same job?
Well my instructor teaches us to block kicks to the ribs with a low block. If you use your legs to block, you are liable to get off balance, which is costly in a fight. Exposing the knees to attack is dangerous... knees are easily broken or dislocated. Personally, i would get up close and personal with my attacker so i can be on the offensive rather than the opposite. Inorder to do certain kicks properly, you need to be a certain distance or your screwed. If you close that distance, your attacker cannot kick, so why worry about it.

[ppko]

Well my instructor teaches us to block kicks to the ribs with a low block. If you use your legs to block, you are liable to get off balance, which is costly in a fight. Exposing the knees to attack is dangerous... knees are easily broken or dislocated. Personally, i would get up close and personal with my attacker so i can be on the offensive rather than the opposite. Inorder to do certain kicks properly, you need to be a certain distance or your screwed. If you close that distance, your attacker cannot kick, so why worry about it.You should be able to do any kicks properly from just about any distance

[Knifehand]

You should be able to do any kicks properly from just about any distance
Yeah, i should. but i wasn't talking about me. Odds are, if someone attacks me, they are not a martial artist, and if they are they are a Mcdojo student. If they attack me and I get upclose and personal, they won't have much of a chance to do much of anything. The best attack is one your oppnent can't see, You can't see something moving fast, and the fastest way to hit someone is to close the distance between you and them and strike fast, because the closest distance between to points is a stright line.

[Knifehand]

You should be able to do any kicks properly from just about any distanceYeah, i should. but i wasn't talking about me. Odds are, if someone attacks me, they are not a martial artist, and if they are they are a Mcdojo student. If they attack me and I get upclose and personal, they won't have much of a chance to do much of anything. The best attack is one your oppnent can't see, You can't see something moving fast, and the fastest way to hit someone is to close the distance between you and them and strike fast, because the closest distance between to points is a stright line.

[jjmcc]

Well my instructor teaches us to block kicks to the ribs with a low block. If you use your legs to block, you are liable to get off balance, which is costly in a fight. Exposing the knees to attack is dangerous... knees are easily broken or dislocated. Personally, i would get up close and personal with my attacker so i can be on the offensive rather than the opposite. Inorder to do certain kicks properly, you need to be a certain distance or your screwed. If you close that distance, your attacker cannot kick, so why worry about it.
We are talking self defence so when you lift your knee to block you go forward never back so you are never off balence. (2) Your knees are a lot stronger than just tissue i have been taught that your knees and elbows are your armour and are much stronger than what you are making them out to be. Also ive seen a lot of kicks in street fights nothin fancy a kick to the groin or shin. ive had first hand experience of how hard your elbows and knees can be on the streets and have enough scars to prove it as i have to deal with violence every week in my line of work

[jjmcc]

Yeah, i should. but i wasn't talking about me. Odds are, if someone attacks me, they are not a martial artist, and if they are they are a Mcdojo student. If they attack me and I get upclose and personal, they won't have much of a chance to do much of anything. The best attack is one your oppnent can't see, You can't see something moving fast, and the fastest way to hit someone is to close the distance between you and them and strike fast, because the closest distance between to points is a stright line.
Good point but i would just put my fingers in there eyes then the only way they can go is back so just keep tracking them and then wreck them!!!

[Marginal]

Thanks i checked out a couple of there sites and i have to say i was a little shocked. Which leads me to apologise for my recent outburst i think i still think of my experiences of karate classes when i was very young. But i still dont understand why anyone will drop there hands to block a low strike when you have your legs and knees there to do the same job?
In some cases yes, in others, no. Hard to set up a takedown with your knee for example.

[Knifehand]

Good point but i would just put my fingers in there eyes then the only way they can go is back so just keep tracking them and then wreck them!!!
My goal in a fight is not serverly injure the person(i have to much control for that), just to make feel as stupid as possible. If they hurt me, i hurt them back...but regardless of why they are attacking me, if my bodily safety is in jepordy (SP?) i will cause them pain... but if i can avoid it.. a simple ego depressing will suffice.

[Autocrat]

Again... wow.... continued further than I thought - LOL

Still.... some of the responses have me wondering... so I'll just shoot and see!

Kick at any distance/range? Just to be picky, but I'm working on front leg kicks, and I have problems kicking at close distance.... It really does depend on the size of your legs, the target area and the distance...IMO of course!

Further, some oone made the sin of saying SPORT! No names mentioned, but BAD PERSOn.... some styles are... but the majority of Karate schools, even those that have moved away from contact and conditioning, are still affective and not sport orientated.... things like Judo are... yet still affective! I may not like sports styles, yet I don't knock them (much :grin:).

As for SD over MA.... not alot of difference.... both are practical... the real difference is time.... you can become very proficient in SD within weeks, where as most MA's take years..... the reason is simple, the number of techniques! SD's tend to utilse numerous escape strategies, yet implement basic strikes, takedowns and throws, a few may include a lock or hold, but the basis is to get away asap! this is not the case in MA's.... whish is where the SD's get there ideas anyway!

And on a final note.... the defence used depends upon the situation, the surrounds and the possible repurcussions! Come at me with several friends and armed, I'll either leg it, or take everyone of of them down, (usually by running slow enough that the fastest catchesme, then I knee cap them!). If the situation is havenly, iew in a mall, a pub etc. with viewers, I make a lot of noise going " no", "leave me alone" "Please, don't attack me", then I say a line like "I'm going to slap you silly", followed by a heavy right handed slap to the face... basacilly its a palm punch with sprayed fingers... yet the non-MA's wouldn't know that! It's great, what they going to say to cops.... "he slapped me"....ha ha ha!

Still, whats next?

[47MartialMan]

Sugar coating a sour grape and selling it for a thousand times its actual value.

[jjmcc]

Again... wow.... continued further than I thought - LOL

Still.... some of the responses have me wondering... so I'll just shoot and see!

Kick at any distance/range? Just to be picky, but I'm working on front leg kicks, and I have problems kicking at close distance.... It really does depend on the size of your legs, the target area and the distance...IMO of course!

Further, some oone made the sin of saying SPORT! No names mentioned, but BAD PERSOn.... some styles are... but the majority of Karate schools, even those that have moved away from contact and conditioning, are still affective and not sport orientated.... things like Judo are... yet still affective! I may not like sports styles, yet I don't knock them (much :grin:).

As for SD over MA.... not alot of difference.... both are practical... the real difference is time.... you can become very proficient in SD within weeks, where as most MA's take years..... the reason is simple, the number of techniques! SD's tend to utilse numerous escape strategies, yet implement basic strikes, takedowns and throws, a few may include a lock or hold, but the basis is to get away asap! this is not the case in MA's.... whish is where the SD's get there ideas anyway!

And on a final note.... the defence used depends upon the situation, the surrounds and the possible repurcussions! Come at me with several friends and armed, I'll either leg it, or take everyone of of them down, (usually by running slow enough that the fastest catchesme, then I knee cap them!). If the situation is havenly, iew in a mall, a pub etc. with viewers, I make a lot of noise going " no", "leave me alone" "Please, don't attack me", then I say a line like "I'm going to slap you silly", followed by a heavy right handed slap to the face... basacilly its a palm punch with sprayed fingers... yet the non-MA's wouldn't know that! It's great, what they going to say to cops.... "he slapped me"....ha ha ha!

Still, whats next?


TO BE TRUTHFUL i really dont care what happens to me ie: getting arrested or fined if someone has a go ill break them first and worry about the conciquences later. Look at it this way if someone slapped you in the face how would that make you feel preety pissed off id guess so why make someone who is ready to attack you angryer than they allready are just say i dont want any trouble they usually drop their guard to those words and start bragging to their friends when they do this break them blind them bite them and let them know you meen business........TAKE NO CRAP in the end why should we.